usatr: United States select tourist routes

[vdeane]

It isn't just vdeane either. I also care about my 100% clinches

Me too.

Preview will go away, eventually

I don't think that preview will go away in the next ten years or even (much) later. Right now, more than 1/3 (192) of the systems in HB are in preview status. Feel free to prove me wrong by reviewing the systems quicker

Oh, I'm sure you guys will keep finding new stuff to add.

[Duke87]

Can we make the Select systems a separate category in the stats, like we do with active vs active+preview? Preview will go away, eventually, and we could adjust the column titles to something like "Defined" and "Defined+Select". People who want to get 100% on official, government-defined systems could use the left column as their benchmark, and those who are more interested in maximizing their total driving mileage could use the right column.

...you know what I actually really like this idea. Better than the idea of a customizable toggle for systems in displayed stats, even.

It's far simpler to implement, and it avoids a key drawback of the toggle solution - namely, that while you can toggle what displays for you, others will have toggled differently, and it will make it impossible to properly compare stats between users who have different toggles set. This solution keeps stats displaying the same for everyone and thus keeps everyone playing the game by the same rules, but still allows people to show 100% on the "base set" of routes without fussing over the additions of extras.

[Jim]

I should clarify the way I see the select-your-systems-to-show idea working.  When you are on the TM site you pick the subset of systems you want to see maps and stats for (stored in cookies) and that's how you see everyone's maps and stats, not just your own.  When someone else sees your maps and stats, they would be based on what the viewing user wants to show, not what each TM user wants.

[vdeane]

OK, I couldn't keep my mind away from the NY scenic byways topic.  The best way to determine routing would probably be whatever maps are in the Corridor Management Plans (CMPs) and linked websites and comparing those to street view for signage (as such don't always match; even the map on the website shows loops/spurs that aren't necessarily signed, although many are).  It turns out more of it is on the touring routes than I thought; I guest most of the ones on local/county roads are in my part of the state, so I had an inflated perception of that.

There are two classifications on that list: "national [sic] designated" and "state designated".  The national ones include the Seaway Trail, Lakes to Locks Passage (which gets interesting in Plattsburgh for seemingly no reason), Mohawk Towpath, and Palisades Scenic Byway (which is just the PIP and would have been a neat solution to the usasf vs. usanyp problem if it weren't for the fact that it would mean a demotion to tier 5).  All of these are signed, have portions that aren't otherwise in TM (except the PIP), and are generally coherent routes (Mohawk Towpath has a signed alt route; Lakes to Locks shows spurs and loops on the map but they aren't signed).

Of the state ones (note that I only took a rough look; it might be a good idea to verify more closely):

Adirondack Trail: appears to be concurrent with existing routes
Black River Trail: concurrent with existing routes per signage; the maps show some local roads around Watertown, but it's signed on NY 3/US 11 SB/NY 12F
Blue Ridge Road: entirely on a county road (interestingly, not fully on the map, and does not have a CMP) but does not appear to have any special shield (just the street name and CR pentagon)
Bronx River Parkway: already in TM
Catskill Mountains Scenic Byway: signed portions concurrent with existing routes
Cayuga Lake Scenic Byway: concurrent with existing routes
Central Adirondack Trail: appears to be concurrent with existing routes
Dude Ranch Trail: somewhat signed, mostly local/county roads
Durham Valley Scenic Byway: somewhat signed, but it appears to be less a true route but a collection of local/county roads that haphazardly had the scenic byway label applied to them; most are too minor to even have street view coverage
High Peaks Byway (Route 73): concurrent with existing route
Historic Parkways of Long Island: already in TM
Maple Traditions: concurrent with existing routes
Military Trail: appears to be concurrent with existing routes
Mountain Cloves: has spurs not in TM
North Fork Trail: did not see signs in street view but would appear to include some stuff not in TM; unsure of exact routing other than it includes CR 48 and NY 25
Olympic Trail: concurrent with existing routes
Revolutionary Byway: appears to be concurrent with existing routes
Roosevelt-Marcy Trail: concurrent with existing route
Route 20 Scenic Byway: has a signed alt route on local/county roads
Scenic Route 90: concurrent with existing routes
Seneca Lake Byway: concurrent with existing routes
Shawangunk Mountains: has portions on local/county roads, but good luck finding an easy way to draft it
Southern Adirondack Trail: appears to be concurrent with existing routes
Taconic Parkway: already in TM
Upper Delaware (Route 97): concurrent with existing routes
WNY Southtowns Scenic Byway: has a signed alt route on local/county roads

I can see a case for adding the other "national designated" ones, but the state designated ones might be a big haphazard for TM purposes.

[Duke87]

I should clarify the way I see the select-your-systems-to-show idea working.  When you are on the TM site you pick the subset of systems you want to see maps and stats for (stored in cookies) and that's how you see everyone's maps and stats, not just your own.  When someone else sees your maps and stats, they would be based on what the viewing user wants to show, not what each TM user wants.

Yeah the thing with that is that okay let's say I decide to toggle off "New Jersey 500 Series County Highways". I won't see them when I look at stats, so it'll show 100% for me when I look at NJ... but someone else who has it toggled on will see me as <100% for NJ because I haven't clinched them all, and I don't like that. I want my stats to display the same for everyone no matter who is looking at them.

There's also the matter of, just because I don't think I should need to clinch all of those to claim 100% of NJ doesn't mean I'm not interested in taking credit for the mileage I have clinched. So I wouldn't necessarily actually want to toggle the system off. But I would want it to be accounted for in a different set of stats.

Mapcat's solution is superior in both of these regards.


That said I also acknowledge here that in this example I am using what would be a comprehensive system if included, but I don't think the important distinction is actually comprehensive vs. select, it's base set vs. extras.

Any select systems would go under "extras" certainly, but so would any systems maintained by counties or equivalent (e.g. all the departmental route systems in France), systems maintained by states or equivalent but with numbers that repeat by county or equivalent, systems of unsigned routes, and named tourist routes.

[Jim]

I think it would be helpful if someone with a few minutes and a experience doing so could split off the New York Scenic Byways posts into a new thread since it seems that potential system would be separate from usatr, and the posts specific to regrouping/toggling systems into a new or an appropriate existing thread. [Could also then delete this post.]