Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: oscar on December 20, 2017, 09:51:13 pm

Title: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on December 20, 2017, 09:51:13 pm
I'm starting development of the Saskatchewan Provincial Highways set. Serious work to start once usaak is activated, and usaca goes into peer review.

cansk would cover the primary routes 1-399. There are four levels within that group (1-99 most major highways; 100s major northern highways; 200s spurs to parks; 300s assorted other spurs). But all have similar signage, unlike the distinctive signage for secondary routes (600-799) and northern secondary routes (900s).

There are seven draft routes already in the HB, transferred from the old cansph route set. They give me a headstart on the initial 1-99 route group I'll begin with.

There are a few known issues to resolve, in the 1-99 routes. Shapefiles might help with questions of where the routes end, though I might not otherwise need much help from them.

-- SK 34 south end is unclear. It once connected to MT 511 at the border, but that crossing has been closed for several years. The road is barricaded only at the border, but the pavement seems to have been ripped up in the former customs area, south of an unnamed side road 0.09km north of the border. Moreover, junction signage on SK 18, where I saw the notices about the border closing, implies that SK 34 ends at SK 18. But I just drove through on SK 18 without checking out signage on SK 34, and GMSV has only pre-closing imagery of that part of SK 34.

-- Routing of SK 11, and several other routes (SK 5, SK 7, and SK 14), through the Saskatoon clusterfork -- unclear whether any of these routes still exist within Circle Drive. The province's 2015/16 official highway map shows major roads in Saskatoon, but not the route designations (if any) on or inside Circle Drive.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on December 21, 2017, 04:08:09 am
Quote
But all have similar signage
You say "similar" -- do you mean "identical", or just "similar"? ;)
This example (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5038272,-106.7992411,3a,17.9y,322.87h,87.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDDjTbmAHZ9jpTvZD6NEYRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) looks pretty identical to me.

Quote
Shapefiles might help with questions of where the routes end, though I might not otherwise need much help from them.
Here's what I've found, with the standard disclaimer that the shapefiles, while a very good guide, can't be taken 100% as gospel.

Quote
-- SK 34 south end is unclear. It once connected to MT 511 at the border, but that crossing has been closed for several years. The road is barricaded only at the border, but the pavement seems to have been ripped up in the former customs area, south of an unnamed side road 0.09km north of the border. Moreover, junction signage on SK 18, where I saw the notices about the border closing, implies that SK 34 ends at SK 18. But I just drove through on SK 18 without checking out signage on SK 34, and GMSV has only pre-closing imagery of that part of SK 34.
The 9.0 revision of the SK shapefiles, dated 2017-06-05, has the south end at the border (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.999285&lon=-105.162325).

Quote
-- Routing of SK 11, and several other routes (SK 5, SK 7, and SK 14), through the Saskatoon clusterfork -- unclear whether any of these routes still exist within Circle Drive. The province's 2015/16 official highway map shows major roads in Saskatoon, but not the route designations (if any) on or inside Circle Drive.
SK11 looks to be as much a headache as ever (some earlier discussion (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=30.msg447#msg447) in the cannf thread)...
Earlier versions of the shapefiles (6.0, dated 2012-09-25; and 7.0, dated 2014-07-22) had TCH16 on Circle Dr's southeastern leg and Idylwyld, and SK11 along the eastern leg of Circle Dr, counter to what's in the HB. (I didn't mention this in the cannf thread, instead focusing on GMSV and the confusing signage on the ground.)
6.0 did not include Circle Dr's southwestern leg yet.
7.0 included the SW leg, new geometry from Clancy Dr to SK11's "ToSK219" point. This, oddly enough, had RTNUMBER1 set to 11. Only as far as Clancy Dr, mind you.
9.0 has now switched this around: TCH16 on the eastern leg & SK11 on the SW leg & Idylwyld, as in the HB. The new section of Circle Dr now has RTNUMBER1 = "None".
Stumbled across this (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1356371,-106.612172,3a,21.3y,177.63h,95.47t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s-QaI6XwtallRXJzHTx0lyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) when looking for SK5 signage, FWIW. Note the TO SOUTH 11.
SK5 is as shown in Google: West on College Dr, University Bridge, and 25th St all the way to Idylwyld. This includes a new (ly constructed?) segment of 25th St (compare ESRI or BingMap views), not shown in the 7.0 shapefiles. So apparently SK5 was important enough to update to this new routing, but I son't see any signage in GMSV indicating its existence west of Circle Dr.
I have to wonder whether, similar to AB, SK has some sort of City Connecting Link (Yes, I just used Kansas terminology, and I am not sorry) setup that could lead to wacky hijinks. @julmac, any insight here?
SK7 continues northeast to SK14, as we'd expect. As far as a 7/14 overlap (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1292898,-106.7554093,3a,15.3y,274.3h,102.93t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1sY8aelzHw86ie88y-aw9D3g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DY8aelzHw86ie88y-aw9D3g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.43265%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) is concerned, the trail goes cold: RTNUMBER1 = 14 from here on in. What I've seen working with the GeoBase files nationwide is that RTNUMBER1 is not always set to the lowest route number in case of a concurrency; for example The 16/83 overlap in Manitoba has RTNUMBER1 = 83. 14 is the more cromulent thru route here; that makes sense. The RTNUMBER2 attribute is often ignored, simply set to "None" when it should probably have a number. OTOH, I see RTNUMBER2 used on the 16/11 overlap, so it seems that this datum is used in Saskatchewan? (Though -- universally? Oy...)
SK14 continues east to Idylwyld.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on December 21, 2017, 04:15:11 am
Here's a list of RTNUMBER1 values mined from the 9.0 shapefiles:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 51 52 54 55 56 57 58 60 80 99

102 106 120 123 135 155 165 167

201 202 204 209 210 211 212 219 220 221 224 225 229 240 247 255 261 263 264 265 271

301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 312 316 317 318 320 321 322 324 332 334 335 339 340 342 343 349 350 354 355 357 358 361 363 364 365 367 368 369 371 373 374 376 377 378 379 381 383 397
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on December 29, 2017, 08:14:31 pm
Based on the published maps I've seen (post 2013), SK 34 appears to still be in the provincial inventory south of SK 18, despite the sign removals. The Highway Hotline also includes a description of SK 34 as "US Border to Jct Hwy 13".

My suggestions for Saskatoon:
-route TC 16 on the east/north leg of Circle Drive (traditional routing of TC 16 pre SW leg)
-route SK 11 on south/west leg of Circle Drive (traditional routing of SK 11 up to Idylwyld)
-route SK 5 along 25th Street to Idylwyld.
-route SK 14 to Idlywyld.
-SK 7 ends at SK 14 (SK 7 is signed out-bound from Idylwyld, but not inbound, as in... https://goo.gl/maps/EHH7DREgGuG2 (https://goo.gl/maps/EHH7DREgGuG2))
-Include Idylwyld (Circle Dr S to Circle Drive N) in cannf

SK5 is as shown in Google: West on College Dr, University Bridge, and 25th St all the way to Idylwyld. This includes a new (ly constructed?) segment of 25th St (compare ESRI or BingMap views), not shown in the 7.0 shapefiles. So apparently SK5 was important enough to update to this new routing, but I son't see any signage in GMSV indicating its existence west of Circle Dr.
I have to wonder whether, similar to AB, SK has some sort of City Connecting Link (Yes, I just used Kansas terminology, and I am not sorry) setup that could lead to wacky hijinks. @julmac, any insight here?

Yes, in SK, highways within cities are under city jurisdiction, with some exceptions. It's similar to Alberta, except that city controlled routes in Alberta often have a "TO" banner, whereas in SK they don't. SK 5 has an interesting history. Prior to the extension of 25th Street to Idylwyld Drive, it was routed rather awkwardly on 2nd Ave and 23rd Street. It was well signed, though, due to the fact that it used to extend to Lloydminster (along present day TC 16) prior to the re-numbering of TC 16 across the western provinces, and prior to the construction of Circle Drive. Needless to say, the value (outside of our circles of course) of a well signed SK 5 in downtown Saskatoon diminished significantly by the time the 25th Street extension was constructed.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on December 29, 2017, 09:06:25 pm
My suggestions for Saskatoon:
-route TC 16 on the east/north leg of Circle Drive (traditional routing of TC 16 pre SW leg)
-route SK 11 on south/west leg of Circle Drive (traditional routing of SK 11 up to Idylwyld)
-route SK 5 along 25th Street to Idylwyld.
-route SK 14 to Idlywyld.
-SK 7 ends at SK 14 (SK 7 is signed out-bound from Idylwyld, but not inbound, as in... https://goo.gl/maps/EHH7DREgGuG2 (https://goo.gl/maps/EHH7DREgGuG2))
-Include Idylwyld (Circle Dr S to Circle Drive N) in cannf

It sounds, from yakra's post about shapefiles, that Idylwild is part of SK 11, and so wouldn't belong in cannf. That would have the advantage of keeping SK 11 as a continuous route, from Regina to near Prince Albert. Circle Dr., of course, needs to be updated for cannf, since about half of it is neither in SK 11 nor TCH 16.

As for the note on part of SK 5 being city-maintained, I lean to treating that as a non-issue, so long as the province designates or recognizes (such as in shapefiles) the route within the city. That resembles the issues I'm dealing with for California state routes, which normally remain state-maintained within cities, but the state lately has been fobbing off on cities many route segments previously maintained by CalTrans.

While re-reviewing the Saskatchewan official highway map, I noticed that secondary routes in the 600-799 range are called "municipal roads", and appear to be maintained by the province's (all too) numerous rural municipalities. However, they might be province-designated, with some long 6xx and 7xx routes spanning multiple RMs. But northern secondary routes (900s) seem to all be called "provincial roads" and to be provincially-maintained, since the province provides municipal services in the sparsely-populated northern region. It will be a long time if ever before we map routes in the 600s, 700s, and 900s. However, we refer to such routes as SK___ in the TCH route files, and the handful of draft cansk route files. I'm inclined to leave those route labels alone, consistent with how we're labeling secondary routes in Alberta and Manitoba.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on January 14, 2018, 01:21:11 pm
I've updated the cansk route files moved out of cansph, and also added a few routes here and there, including samples from the 1xx, 2xx, and 3xx tiers. In cannf, Circle Dr. has been finally updated, since several cansk routes intersect that loop around Saskatoon.

Some of these routes have unclear endpoints. I expect that to be a problem especially with the 2xx routes (loops and spurs to parks), which tend to be short but poorly mapped. I'll hold off on addressing those endpoints, until I've finished drafting the route set (still about 120 routes to draft, so that'll take awhile) and can compile a complete list of what needs followup.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on January 15, 2018, 05:57:44 am
Here's a list of RTNUMBER1 values mined from the 9.0 shapefiles:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 51 52 54 55 56 57 58 60 80 99.

One of the new routes I've added is 39A, consisting of old 39 mileage through Estevan, assuming (as Mapnik does) that 39 has been moved to the new truck bypass opened in 2015 or 2016. Does 39A show in the 2017 shapefiles? Any other suffixed routes?

The provincial Highway Hotline map shows 39 on both the bypass and the old route through downtown Estevan. Other maps and official info don't address. And neither GMSV's camera cars nor I have been to Estevan lately (it was the first city in Saskatchewan I've been to, in 1994, but did not inspire a re-visit).
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on January 15, 2018, 01:10:29 pm
In cannf, Circle Dr. has been finally updated, since several cansk routes intersect that loop around Saskatoon.
• IMO the three SK11/16 points would be better served as SK11_A, SK11_B, and SK11_C. Compare TXLp7 (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=tx.lp007).
• SK11 could then change to SK11_N, denoting the multiplex split.
• SK762 is only signed for Valley Rd, with enough blank space for a shield to be added. Shapefiles have 762 ending at the Corman Park / Saskatoon line. 'City Connecting Link" hijinks, as discussed upthread?
• WamRd -> WarRd

Some of these routes have unclear endpoints. I expect that to be a problem especially with the 2xx routes (loops and spurs to parks), which tend to be short but poorly mapped. I'll hold off on addressing those endpoints, until I've finished drafting the route set (still about 120 routes to draft, so that'll take awhile) and can compile a complete list of what needs followup.
Shapefiles should be helpful for this when the time comes.

Does 39A show in the 2017 shapefiles? Any other suffixed routes?
No suffixed routes. All RTNUMBER1 values are completely numeric, no alpha (Aside from "None", which I left off the above list for obvious reasons").
The Estevan bypass is shown, just with RTNUMBER1 = None. 39 is still sown on the old alignment thru town.
Take with a grain of salt; it may not mean much. It could be that things are just taking a while getting updated.

The provincial Highway Hotline map shows 39 on both the bypass and the old route through downtown Estevan. Other maps and official info don't address.
*slow clap*
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on January 23, 2018, 08:10:12 pm
I'm continuing to draft route files, with an emphasis on routes following the province's western, southern, and eastern borders, and short routes connecting them to AB, MT, ND, and MB routes. I noticed the new canabs routes in the HB, which connect to some two and three-digit primary SK routes, and give me more border points to pilfer. I'll submit a pull request as more routes accumulate.

I've also done SK 42 in central Saskatchewan, AFAIK the only primary SK route split by a ferry crossing (across Lake Diefenbaker). That crossing is replaced by an ice bridge in the winter, though the bridge is not yet open this winter (usually open in February through mid-March). There is precedent in the Northwest Territories to not split routes connected by ferries in the summer and ice bridges in the winter. However, I'm disinclined to push that precedent, and would instead have separate Lucky Lake and Eyebrow route files for the western and eastern SK 42 route segments.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on January 27, 2018, 12:57:13 am
cannt was activated Oct 14, 2009 (http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=3301&mforum=clinched#3301). This predates the split-by-ferries guideline.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 11, 2018, 11:48:16 pm
Draft route files for all major southern primary routes < 100, and EDIT: 1xx northern primary routes, are now in the HB. Still working on 2xx park access routes (7 of 21 already in the HB), and 3xx minor southern primary routes (19 of 50).

Does 39A show in the 2017 shapefiles? Any other suffixed routes?
No suffixed routes. All RTNUMBER1 values are completely numeric, no alpha (Aside from "None", which I left off the above list for obvious reasons").
The Estevan bypass is shown, just with RTNUMBER1 = None. 39 is still sown on the old alignment thru town.
Take with a grain of salt; it may not mean much. It could be that things are just taking a while getting updated.

There are definitely other suffixed routes that have been around longer than the Estevan bypass -- 10A and 52A in the Yorkton area, 41A near Melfort, plus TCH routes 16A and 16B in Yorkton and North Battleford respectively.

Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 12, 2018, 09:45:27 pm
Checking these out in the 9.0 shapefiles, for curiosity's sake, to see how things are done in SK.

TCHNBa (16B): On the SW<->NE leg, RTNUMBER1 = 4 & RTNUMBER2 = 16. On Railway Ave, no route numbers are listed.
TCHYor (16A): On Smith St & Gladstone Ave, no route numbers are listed. On Broadway St, RTNUMBER1 = "None" & RTNUMEBR2 = 16A on the eastbound & undivided alignments. Westbound lists no route #s.
10A: 16A overlap as noted above. The rest lists no route #s.
41A: No route #s listed.
52A: No route #s listed.

Is this indicative of sloppy record-keeping in Saskatchewan WRT just the letter-suffixed routes, or maybe with route numbering overall?
I couldn't say. I haven't looked at the SK files very much at all.
The more I work with the Geobase files, I find that while there's a national framework set up with how the files are arranged, each province has its own mojo, and does things differently within that framework.
GeoBase files are no magic bullet, and are best supplemented by other info sources.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 13, 2018, 07:08:18 pm
SK42:
SK646 -> SK646_S
add in SK646_N, although quite close to SK45
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 13, 2018, 07:32:49 pm
Got it, fix to be submitted with other stuff later this evening (done).

I'm picking up similar missing waypoints on other routes, as I rough out some of the 2xx park access routes. I'll need to do my own double-checks, before putting cansk into preview.

Many of those 2xx routes are turning out to be a mess, including two that are not in any online mapping (one exists, I found its general location in a park guide and GMSV confirms it's signed; the other I have no idea if or where it exists), and others with unclear endpoints. Expect slow going on that tier.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 16, 2018, 12:31:44 pm
I can use shapefiles to help track down those if/where cases, and their endpoints.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 16, 2018, 02:11:43 pm
I can use shapefiles to help track down those if/where cases, and their endpoints.

Let me work through the 300s, so I can give you a complete list.

Do you know if the shapefiles cover the 9xx routes? There are a few northern primary routes where there is no issue with endpoints, but they have some intermediate 9xx junctions, where the 9xx route is either poorly mapped or might've been decommissioned. GMSV coverage is weak in the north, not that it's good in the south either.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 16, 2018, 11:28:26 pm
900 routes are covered. If there have been decommissionings, that may leave some things up in the air. Alberta's shapefiles are fairly well up-to-date, but Manitoba's are badly out of date... I can't speak for Saskatchewan.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 18, 2018, 04:16:37 am
Most of the 2xx routes (park access routes) are now in the HB. The exception is the mysterious SK 204, which is in the shapefiles but I can't find on online or other maps. A few routes have unclear endpoints, though GMSV helped me nail down some others.

Still need to draft about thirty 3xx route files to complete coverage of the primary routes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 23, 2018, 02:06:35 am
Notes on possibly unsigned/non-routes, for later followup. I'll also need to go back and check the shorter 2xx routes for ones that might be unsigned. GMSV is more helpful than I expected, at least in southern Saskatchewan, but its coverage is maddeningly uneven and/or sometimes dated.

SK 204 -- apparently in shapefiles, can't find

SK 383-- apparently in shapefiles, can't find

SK 375, 394, 396 -- apparently not in shapefiles, but shown in OSM/Mapnik, and to some extent in other online maps, as well as (375 and 396 only) 2008 MapArt paper atlas. All are fairly short routes, so they wouldn't necessarily show in the official road map or the online Highway Hotline.

375 is connector to Hepburn from SK 12. Fairly recent GMSV imagery indicate route is unsigned if it exists. It might exist only as continuation of SK 785 (SK 12's route file uses that as the label for the Hepburn access road).

396 is connector from TCH 16 to Guernsey and a potash plant south of town. Dated GMSV imagery suggests it is unsigned if it exists, or may be signed only as part of SK 668.

394 is on east side of Saskatoon, between SK 16 and SK 316. Unlike other two routes, it is not shown in 2008 MapArt road atlas, which means it may be a fairly new route. Like 396, it may be in the system mainly to serve a potash plant. Some GMSV imagery is too dated to be helpful, but apparently unsigned at junctions with SK 16 and SK 316 based on 2013-14 imagery. FWIW, a "stub" article in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatchewan_Highway_394) identifies the route as unsigned, though I don't know on what that's based.

394 and 396 are in the HB, subject to later removal. I'm more convinced that 375 should be left out of the HB, so it stays out for now.
 
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 23, 2018, 11:39:35 am
Here is a list of issues with unclear route ends, and some intermediate waypoints. End signs exist for some routes covered by GMSV, so I haven't included those routes on this list.

SK 2 -- Intersects SK 936 near its north end, around the location shown in the HB. Google Maps shows the intersection location, and GMSV shows that intersection is with SK 936. Only Mapnik doesn't show the intersection at all. The only thing missing is open-source coordinates for the intersection.

SK 21 -- This is just a note that Mapnik appears to be following a long-bypassed old alignment, between newly-added waypoints RR233 and TR462 via Carruthers. Every other map I've consulted, including the latest official road map and the online Highway Hotline map, shows SK 21 following the route in the HB. I'm satisfied that Mapnik is simply wrong on this, no need for further followup, but it does underscore our not taking Mapnik as gospel truth.

SK 35 -- North end very unclear, with Mapnik showing it going well northeast of the endpoint shown on the provincial paper and online Highway Hotline maps. HB now truncates the route to a guesstimate of the north endpoint based on the official maps.

SK 102 -- North end within Southend unclear.

SK 106 and SK 120 -- Both routes intersect Harding Road, which may be or once have been SK 928. GMSV indicates the junction on SK 106 is unsigned; no GMSV coverage of that part of SK 120. No biggie if we have to settle for HarRd waypoints on both routes.

SK 123 -- North end really unclear. Online maps differ on where and how far the route goes north of the Saskatchewan River, including whether it passes through Pemmican Portage village or instead bypasses it to the west, and its endpoint in Cumberland House. An added complication is that the provincial Highway Hotline shows 123 following a winter road (not shown in other mapping) southeast from the Cumberland House region to SK 9 near the Manitoba border.

SK 165 -- SK 935 supposedly intersects with 165 in the Hall Lake area, but I'm unsure whether the intersection is located where the HB has it, or another intersection in the vicinity. No GMSV coverage.

SK 211 -- East end unclear.

SK 212 -- West end unclear (at road's end, or at park boundary).

SK 220 -- HB has west end east of park fee booths, but could route end at or west of booths?

SK 221 -- West end probably at park fee booths, where HB has it.

SK 240, SK 263, SK 264 -- Do routes end at Prince Albert NP boundary, or at fee booths, or continue into the park? 2009 GMSV imagery indicates 240 ends, along with its pavement, at the park boundary. I didn't see similar End signs on 263 and 264 whose pavement continues into the park, though neither did I recall seeing route markers inside the park. If the routes do not end at or near the park boundary, does SK 264 end at intersection with SK 263, or continue northwest as OSM indicates?

SK 255 -- North end in Tobin Lake unclear.

SK 261 -- GMSV confirms the route exists, and extends both west and east of SK 4, but not how far in each direction.

SK 305 -- Waypoint for what appears to be Old SK305/784_E could use a check on whether it remains an intersection with SK 784; the recent bypass of that former 305 segment is still a bit of a moving target, with a new interchange with SK 11 in progress, as well as a realignment of that part of SK 11.

SK 310 -- Is the intersection marked SK740 indeed with highway 740? (Mapnik is an outlier on that road being a numbered highway, and the provincial highway map is silent.) Ditto SK745 farther north. More perplexing, Google Maps and the provincial highway map have SK 743 intersecting at waypoint SK743?, while Mapnik and 2009 GMSV have it at waypoint EdmRd -- maybe SK 743 was moved?

SK 324 -- East end in Mayfair probably at Railway Ave. where Mapnik places endpoint, but no GMSV coverage to confirm.

SK 340 -- One intermediate waypoint is marked SK685?/781?, but number of intersecting route is unclear. 2013 GMSV imagery shows it as SK 685.

SK 354 -- North end unclear, whether it ends at SK 732/733 junction, or continues a little west along SK 733 to Railway Ave. in Dilke.

SK 378 -- Disagreement among maps about intersection with SK 686, east of Rabbit Lake. Official road map and Google Maps have it at waypoint SK686. Mapnik, 2009 GMSV, and 2008 MapArt paper atlas have it at hidden point +X123456, east of Meeting Lake (waypoint MeeLake). As with SK 21, I'm comfortable disagreeing with Mapnik, in favor of official and other maps showing a more recent routing for SK 686, no need for further followup.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 26, 2018, 04:41:56 am
Drafts of all cansk routes (1-399) are now in the HB, except for the mystery routes SK 204 and SK 383 that are in the shapefiles but I have no idea of their locations. Aside from those, I'd like to address at least some of the issues I flagged in the two preceding posts, including cleaning up the waypoints with "?" in their labels (which Datacheck doesn't like), before putting this system into preview. 

yakra, time for a dive into the shapefiles, if I can get your help on that?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on February 26, 2018, 08:50:23 pm
Drafts of all cansk routes (1-399) are now in the HB, except for the mystery routes SK 204 and SK 383 that are in the shapefiles but I have no idea of their locations. Aside from those, I'd like to address at least some of the issues I flagged in the two preceding posts, including cleaning up the waypoints with "?" in their labels (which Datacheck doesn't like), before putting this system into preview. 

yakra, time for a dive into the shapefiles, if I can get your help on that?

Here is SK 204:  https://goo.gl/maps/MnHsh5khTnQ2

Found that in this document:  http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/18/104925-Travel%20on%20Saskatchewan%20Highways%202016%20(2).pdf

SK 383 is not listed.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 27, 2018, 12:47:23 am
Here is SK 204:  https://goo.gl/maps/MnHsh5khTnQ2

Found that in this document:  http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/18/104925-Travel%20on%20Saskatchewan%20Highways%202016%20(2).pdf

Thanks! There's already a waypoint for the SK 4/SK 204 junction in the SK 4 route file, just need to relabel it from BatPP to SK204. Will need to nail down SK 204's west end (tentative: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.131631&lon=-108.396879, haven't yet found an end sign WB but there's an SK 204 marker EB), once I'm more awake and/or am back home from a short trip to Virginia's Eastern Shore where I am now.

The cited document seems to have answers for some of my other questions, such as the extent of SK 261 (though for some routes, Mapnik doesn't show the road or intersection at the endpoint stated in the document, so I'll still need shapefile help). I'll take a closer look later.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on February 27, 2018, 08:26:22 am
The EB posting here https://goo.gl/maps/yKFjRwmzTKK2 matches the distance in the travel log document
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 27, 2018, 09:37:27 am
SK 204 route file drafted, and will be added to the HB next pull request (perhaps once we've figured out whether we need to add SK 383 as well -- though I have a hunch that's a placeholder number for the under-construction part of the Regina Bypass west of the city that won't become part of TCH 1).
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 27, 2018, 06:22:20 pm
Quote
Will need to nail down SK 204's west end (tentative: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.131631&lon=-108.396879
This matches what I see in the shapefiles.

383 appears to be an erroneous datum that snuck into the RTNUMBER1 field. This happens sometimes, such as with the similarly apocryphal Route 184 in Alberta (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2214).
In its entirety,
49056-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.391649&lon=-105.542239
49056-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.391541&lon=-105.542238

...it's 3rd Ave NW in Moose Jaw, between eastbound & westbound High St.
"383" in this case appears to be a typo for "363", which is shown in the shapefiles as taking a different route from 9thAve_N to SK2:
North on 9th Ave, east on High St, south on 3rd Ave, then east on Manitoba St.
Signage is a bit lacking in GMSV, but I was able to find this (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.3840656,-105.5567066,3a,21y,279.49h,87.59t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1she5Ef6DwuzC-AnspdEvpKA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dhe5Ef6DwuzC-AnspdEvpKA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D11.719651%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41), this (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.3897224,-105.5407799,3a,15y,261.8h,92.27t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sk9WivK9592OU54_KsUmSaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41), and this (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.3907294,-105.5576488,3a,16.2y,23.39h,88.53t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1stFYeec8b4wDMeLFpic2uUw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) (This one (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.3834432,-105.5575413,3a,46.3y,6.68h,91.91t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sSulVOUBmq4h5WvuDk5_YXA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) is a bit ambiguous). Nothing indicating the route as shown on OSM & Google.

I have yet to read thru the more detailed posts upthread.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on February 27, 2018, 08:00:00 pm
The first link you had when looked at from 2009 has the arrow pointing the other way!
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 28, 2018, 02:43:02 am
All info is from the GeoBase NRN shapefiles, SK revision 9.0, unless otherwise noted.

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SK 2 -- Intersects SK 936 near its north end, around the location shown in the HB. Google Maps shows the intersection location, and GMSV shows that intersection is with SK 936. Only Mapnik doesn't show the intersection at all. The only thing missing is open-source coordinates for the intersection.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.600699&lon=-105.834393

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SK 35 -- North end very unclear, with Mapnik showing it going well northeast of the endpoint shown on the provincial paper and online Highway Hotline maps. HB now truncates the route to a guesstimate of the north endpoint based on the official maps.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.612705&lon=-103.720700

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SK 102 -- North end within Southend unclear.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.331620&lon=-103.292101
Is this compatible with what you've seen elsewhere?

Quote
SK 106 and SK 120 -- Both routes intersect Harding Road, which may be or once have been SK 928. GMSV indicates the junction on SK 106 is unsigned; no GMSV coverage of that part of SK 120. No biggie if we have to settle for HarRd waypoints on both routes.
Shapefiles show this as SK928. If it's unsigned at SK106, then I guess HarRd should be the label.
Do we assume the whole thing's unsigned, and do likewise at SK120? I *slightly* prefer doing so...

Quote
SK 123 -- North end really unclear. Online maps differ on where and how far the route goes north of the Saskatchewan River, including whether it passes through Pemmican Portage village or instead bypasses it to the west, and its endpoint in Cumberland House. An added complication is that the provincial Highway Hotline shows 123 following a winter road (not shown in other mapping) southeast from the Cumberland House region to SK 9 near the Manitoba border.
North end at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.921247&lon=-102.295576
Winter road unnumbered

Quote
SK 165 -- SK 935 supposedly intersects with 165 in the Hall Lake area, but I'm unsure whether the intersection is located where the HB has it, or another intersection in the vicinity. No GMSV coverage.
+X293272 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.102713&lon=-105.982290
+X814387 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.101715&lon=-105.924949
SK935 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.061273&lon=-105.825188
I zapped HallLakeRd above, as it's not necessary for shaping (tweaked a bit to compensate) or visible distance. That, and there are no open-source coordinates, unless you wanna interpolate between these (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.088839&lon=-105.883524) two (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.100722&lon=-105.920867) adjacent shapefile points. 8)

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SK 211 -- East end unclear.
BlaPP http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.791274&lon=-106.417591
How about a visible shaping point at Tho (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.801662&lon=-106.429273)?

Quote
SK 212 -- West end unclear (at road's end, or at park boundary).
Shapefiles agree with the HB.

Quote
SK 220 -- HB has west end east of park fee booths, but could route end at or west of booths?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.993774&lon=-105.179954

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SK 221 -- West end probably at park fee booths, where HB has it.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.658346&lon=-109.498129

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SK 240, SK 263, SK 264 -- Do routes end at Prince Albert NP boundary, or at fee booths, or continue into the park? 2009 GMSV imagery indicates 240 ends, along with its pavement, at the park boundary. I didn't see similar End signs on 263 and 264 whose pavement continues into the park, though neither did I recall seeing route markers inside the park. If the routes do not end at or near the park boundary, does SK 264 end at intersection with SK 263, or continue northwest as OSM indicates?
I've got all three ending at the park boundary:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.583520&lon=-106.293094
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.568985&lon=-106.003975
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.899730&lon=-106.004054

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SK 255 -- North end in Tobin Lake unclear.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.517959&lon=-103.743430
The intersecting road here is "Lake Drive View". Yes, you read that right. Make of it what you will.

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SK 261 -- GMSV confirms the route exists, and extends both west and east of SK 4, but not how far in each direction.
You nailed it.
Within tolerance, but I think a shaping point may be worthwhile just before the east end.

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SK 305 -- Waypoint for what appears to be Old SK305/784_E could use a check on whether it remains an intersection with SK 784; the recent bypass of that former 305 segment is still a bit of a moving target, with a new interchange with SK 11 in progress, as well as a realignment of that part of SK 11.
Not shown as 784.

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SK 310 -- Is the intersection marked SK740 indeed with highway 740? (Mapnik is an outlier on that road being a numbered highway, and the provincial highway map is silent.)
Shapefiles and GMSV both say yes.

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Ditto SK745 farther north.
Shapefiles say yes.
Here's some blurry GMSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7650873,-103.5418832,3a,15y,276.79h,89.2t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1seMWBTda1f3VuIGRCrB0Gug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41).

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More perplexing, Google Maps and the provincial highway map have SK 743 intersecting at waypoint SK743?, while Mapnik and 2009 GMSV have it at waypoint EdmRd -- maybe SK 743 was moved?
Shapefiles agree with OSM, as far back as the 6.0 files, dated 2012-09-25, the oldest I have.

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SK 324 -- East end in Mayfair probably at Railway Ave. where Mapnik places endpoint, but no GMSV coverage to confirm.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.983649&lon=-107.598548 though it does seem a little odd

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SK 340 -- One intermediate waypoint is marked SK685?/781?, but number of intersecting route is unclear. 2013 GMSV imagery shows it as SK 685.
Shapefiles say 781. :( Call it 685?

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SK 354 -- North end unclear, whether it ends at SK 732/733 junction, or continues a little west along SK 733 to Railway Ave. in Dilke.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.864853&lon=-105.250138

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SK 378 -- Disagreement among maps about intersection with SK 686, east of Rabbit Lake. Official road map and Google Maps have it at waypoint SK686. Mapnik, 2009 GMSV, and 2008 MapArt paper atlas have it at hidden point +X123456, east of Meeting Lake (waypoint MeeLake). As with SK 21, I'm comfortable disagreeing with Mapnik, in favor of official and other maps showing a more recent routing for SK 686, no need for further followup.
Shapefiles have it at +x123456.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: 7/8 on February 28, 2018, 09:11:50 am
Draft route files for all major southern primary routes < 100, and EDIT: 1xx northern primary routes, are now in the HB. Still working on 2xx park access routes (7 of 21 already in the HB), and 3xx minor southern primary routes (19 of 50).

What about SK56 (I happened to notice that this one is missing since it's one of the few SK highways I've driven on)?

Also, thanks for the hard work on this system. Ever since my trip to SK and MB last year, I've been looking forward to this system being added.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 28, 2018, 09:50:43 am
What about SK56 (I happened to notice that this one is missing since it's one of the few SK highways I've driven on)?

Thanks for the catch!

I'll have to double-check my csv files against the document mapmikey linked above, to look for any other routes I may have missed. That document seems to include a complete list of primary routes (1-399), as well as northern secondary routes (9xx, including some isolated fragments up to near the Northwest Territories border), though there is incomplete coverage of auxiliary routes like 10A and 41A, which are not separately inventoried or shapefiled.

BTW, that document doesn't cover the 6xx and 7xx southern secondary routes, which unlike the 9xx routes aren't province-maintained. Yet another reason for me not to take on the southern secondary routes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on February 28, 2018, 01:45:07 pm

...though there is incomplete coverage of auxiliary routes like 10A and 41A, which are not separately inventoried or shapefiled.



They are actually inventoried, but buried within the mainline entry.  On the left side where it shows road name, RUA and LUA designations are the auxilliary routes.  The ones that are actually signed are named as points on the MUA segments.  The easiest entry to see this clearly is the SK 52 entry.  It shows the SK 52 inventory with SK 52A as two segments nestled in there.

You appear to have all the posted ones covered.  I spot checked some lengthier LUA and RUA routes and none seem posted on GMSV...it appears they only post the ones that connect to a posted route on both ends.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 28, 2018, 01:48:14 pm
Found that in this document:  http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/18/104925-Travel%20on%20Saskatchewan%20Highways%202016%20(2).pdf
I searched the linked document for the strings:

subtotal highway 375
subtotal highway 394
subtotal highway 396
highway no. 375
highway no. 394
highway no. 396


No results.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 28, 2018, 05:03:48 pm
Yeah, I'm now convinced that the supposed unsigned routes 375, 394, and 396 are not (any longer) province-maintained.

Tonight's pull request will remove 394 and 396 from the HB (375 already gone), make conforming changes to intersecting routes, and add 56 and 204. I'll defer the other changes yakra suggested to a later pull request, including the complicated change to 363. That route's shapefile doesn't match the signed route in Moose Jaw, but the signed route was a real mess when I clinched it in 2016, and it's possible I accidentally clinched the shapefile route while trying to follow the signed route.

BTW, 364 is in the traffic count report, but not in the HB. This route is well-known to be unsigned. I expect to be back that way this summer, and will try to check on whether that's changed now with major improvements to the 364/TCH 1 interchange.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: 7/8 on February 28, 2018, 08:47:13 pm
For SK 11, could Vic Boulevard be added as a waypoint? It's a relatively new exit just south of the southeast corner of Circle Dr in Saskatoon.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on February 28, 2018, 08:48:57 pm


BTW, 364 is in the traffic count report, but not in the HB. This route is well-known to be unsigned. I expect to be back that way this summer, and will try to check on whether that's changed now with major improvements to the 364/TCH 1 interchange.

They deposted it since 2013?
https://goo.gl/maps/bi11Co4S3kN2
https://goo.gl/maps/oD6wnRTsgdM2
https://goo.gl/maps/dq5dVBhPVhk
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: 7/8 on February 28, 2018, 08:57:40 pm


BTW, 364 is in the traffic count report, but not in the HB. This route is well-known to be unsigned. I expect to be back that way this summer, and will try to check on whether that's changed now with major improvements to the 364/TCH 1 interchange.

They deposted it since 2013?
https://goo.gl/maps/bi11Co4S3kN2
https://goo.gl/maps/oD6wnRTsgdM2
https://goo.gl/maps/dq5dVBhPVhk

I have a photo of SK 364 taken on SK 10 (heading eastbound) from April 25, 2017

(https://i.imgur.com/inHKAOsl.jpg)
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 28, 2018, 09:17:24 pm
Oops -- SK 364 is already in the HB. I had it confused with the nearby Pilot Butte access road, which Wikipedia (but apparently not the transportation ministry) says is unsigned SK 362.

For SK 11, could Vic Boulevard be added as a waypoint? It's a relatively new exit just south of the southeast corner of Circle Dr in Saskatoon.

Done in my local copy, but won't be in tonight's update.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on February 28, 2018, 09:52:44 pm
Quote
That route's shapefile doesn't match the signed route in Moose Jaw, but the signed route was a real mess when I clinched it in 2016, and it's possible I accidentally clinched the shapefile route while trying to follow the signed route.
From what I could see in GMSV (not much), it's a mess, yes; no signs for a lot of the would-be could-be turns, but what signage I found all seemed to indicate the shapefile route, and not anything else. Did you see otherwise when you were there? The real kicker for me is the signed turn from Manitoba onto 3rd.
FWIW, did you travel thru the area eastbound or westbound?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on February 28, 2018, 10:06:18 pm
Quote
That route's shapefile doesn't match the signed route in Moose Jaw, but the signed route was a real mess when I clinched it in 2016, and it's possible I accidentally clinched the shapefile route while trying to follow the signed route.
From what I could see in GMSV (not much), it's a mess, yes; no signs for a lot of the would-be could-be turns, but what signage I found all seemed to indicate the shapefile route, and not anything else. Did you see otherwise when you were there? The real kicker for me is the signed turn from Manitoba onto 3rd.
FWIW, did you travel thru the area eastbound or westbound?

My general direction of travel was westbound, but I did a fair amount of backtracking within Moose Jaw to pick up the signed route again after I missed a turn (as you can guess, that happened more than once).

I took SK 363 mainly to clinch a layer of rural municipalities (SK's county equivalents), but had enough time to try to clinch the route while I was at it.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on March 01, 2018, 07:24:34 am
All the westbound turns are signed:

3rd at High - https://goo.gl/maps/MgV4sq49kQH2
High at 9th (arrow missing since ~2014) - https://goo.gl/maps/4PR9azR9dKv

Eastbound turn only currently signed at 9th and High.  The High at 3rd sign was removed sometime after 2009.  3rd at Manitoba shows shield removed prior to GMSV 2009.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 01, 2018, 09:52:47 am
Quote
SK 102 -- North end within Southend unclear.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.331620&lon=-103.292101
Is this compatible with what you've seen elsewhere?

That point is about 2 miles west of Southend. All the online maps and Wikipedia (which seems to follow what the online maps say, rather than using primary sources) have SK 102 continuing across the Reindeer River into Southend. However, 2008 MapArt has it ending roughly where the shapefile has it. The 2016-17 official road map seems to have SK 102 ending at but not crossing the Reindeer River. The traffic count document has SK 102 ending at "Southend Access", 22.02km east of jct SK 905, which looks like a rough match for the above shapefile coordinates and definitely stopping short of the river.

With no GMSV coverage up there, and not having traveled that far north on SK 102 (I turned around at the La Ronge airport entrance), I'll just go with what the shapefile says.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 01, 2018, 07:09:56 pm
Double-checking the traffic count report, it looks like the HB leaves out some mileage on SK 54 (north end in Regina Beach), SK 60 (south end within Pike Lake PP), and SK 202 (east end within Buffalo Pound PP). Tonight's pull request will include edits with my best guesses of the correct endpoints indicated by the traffic count report, but it would be useful to check the shapefiles for those routes.

BTW, the report includes maps toward the end, one of which confirms that SK 39 has been relocated to the Estevan Bypass, and the old route through Estevan converted to SK 39A. The HB already reflects this.

After the above three endpoints are nailed down, and I've added cansk entries to my list file, I'll move cansk into preview.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on March 01, 2018, 08:11:45 pm


BTW, the report includes maps toward the end, one of which confirms that SK 39 has been relocated to the Estevan Bypass, and the old route through Estevan converted to SK 39A. The HB already reflects this.



Since this would affect the one SK route I have clinched, I poked around and there is photo evidence SK 39 was put on the bypass and 39A is signed through town:

This is the EB bypass coming back to the original routing - https://www.discoverestevan.com/images/stories/galleries/truckroutebypass/Bypass%20Opening%2092.JPG
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on March 02, 2018, 12:51:46 am
Quote
Double-checking the traffic count report, it looks like the HB leaves out some mileage on SK 54 (north end in Regina Beach), SK 60 (south end within Pike Lake PP),
Shapefiles match the HB for both.

Quote
and SK 202 (east end within Buffalo Pound PP).
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.606698&lon=-105.434869
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 02, 2018, 01:09:19 am
Quote
Double-checking the traffic count report, it looks like the HB leaves out some mileage on SK 54 (north end in Regina Beach), SK 60 (south end within Pike Lake PP),
Shapefiles match the HB for both.

Just to clarify, are you referring to the versions I updated a few hours ago? The current HB version of SK 54 ends at RaiAve in Regina Beach (BTW, there are Railway Avenues most everywhere in SK, even more common than Main Streets). The current HB version of SK 60 ends well within the provincial park, rather than at the boundary.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 02, 2018, 08:58:26 pm
Quote
Double-checking the traffic count report, it looks like the HB leaves out some mileage on SK 54 (north end in Regina Beach), SK 60 (south end within Pike Lake PP),
Shapefiles match the HB for both.

Just to clarify, are you referring to the versions I updated a few hours ago? The current HB version of SK 54 ends at RaiAve in Regina Beach (BTW, there are Railway Avenues most everywhere in SK, even more common than Main Streets). The current HB version of SK 60 ends well within the provincial park, rather than at the boundary.

One more thing:  I forgot to ask about the north end of SK 135 in Sandy Bay. This endpoint (close to the SanLakeAir point in what's in the HB) looks like a better match for what's in the traffic count report, and the online mapping (which is unclear about whether Sandy Bay Ave. north of Hill Ave. is part of SK 135):

HillAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.525476&lon=-102.315920
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 03, 2018, 10:12:45 pm
cansk is now in preview. With that, TM covers all of Canada, with at least the primary level of provincial/territorial highways in preview or active systems, except Nunavut Territory which has no highways.

The system does not yet include copies of the Trans-Canada Highway route files for Saskatchewan: SK 1 (= sk.tchmai), SK 16 (= sk.tchyel), SK 16A (= sk.tchyor), or SK 16B (= sk.tchnba). Those files will be added to cansk after peer review and just before activation, so that any edits to the TCH routes until cansk activation need not be made twice.

yakra, if I still need to tweak the endpoints of SK 54, SK 60, or SK 135 (as modified in tonight's pull request to truncate it to HillAve in Sandy Bay), please let me know.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on March 04, 2018, 12:49:16 pm
Quote
Just to clarify, are you referring to the versions I updated a few hours ago?
Just rechecked for good measure. The versions in the HB now are the ones I looked at when I wrote that post, and look good.

Quote
(BTW, there are Railway Avenues most everywhere in SK, even more common than Main Streets).
I saw a few of those when checking out that first batch of routes, and thought "Welcome to Alberta!" :)

SK135: The new HillAve endpoint looks right.
SK165: There's a missing line feed between SK935 and +X261509, resulting in SK935 being off-position in the HB.
SK263: Signed E/W, at least here (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.539951,-105.7652956,3a,15y,277.94h,86.8t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sYE3Uy6wORjcduGxtl03Yzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41). Reverse point order?
SK264: Signed E/W, at least here (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8518764,-105.9225716,3a,28.8y,333.93h,87.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssj_XaWp_d8yFoVAFlwwACA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Reverse point order?
SK310: The old "SK743?" could be kept as a visible point for WestBend (Truncated, distant town name).
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 04, 2018, 01:19:33 pm
SK263: Signed E/W, at least here (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.539951,-105.7652956,3a,15y,277.94h,86.8t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sYE3Uy6wORjcduGxtl03Yzg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41). Reverse point order?
SK264: Signed E/W, at least here (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.8518764,-105.9225716,3a,28.8y,333.93h,87.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssj_XaWp_d8yFoVAFlwwACA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Reverse point order?

The 2016 traffic count report has both routes starting at SK 2, as if they were spurs from that major route. Since SK doesn't use km-markers much except on major routes, I'm not trying too hard to use the order in that report or otherwise deviate from the usual west-east/south-north orders, but in these cases I would leave the east-west order alone.

Oddly enough, the report uses a east to west order for some major cross-province routes, including TCH 1 and TCH 16, as well as SK 3 and SK 5, at least. I don't feel like flipping their waypoint orders, especially with the mismatched point orders with the corresponding routes in AB and MB.

Other changes are in my queue, for tonight's pull along with a label fix in SK 18 (SK606 -> SK350/606, which caused an error for my list file). Otherwise, I plan to give cansk a rest for awhile, as I work on plans (subject to jury duty obligations later this week) to hit the road again for a few weeks.

Thanks again for your dives into the shapefiles.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: 7/8 on March 04, 2018, 10:23:17 pm
Thanks again oscar and yakra for working on this! It's great to have my Saskatchewan travels on TM :)

For SK 11, could a shape point be added between SK219 and LorAve in Saskatoon? Right now, it looks like SK 11 follows Lorne Ave instead of the Idylwyld Freeway. On the system map, this could also look like an extension of SK 219 (which is made even more confusing since Wikipedia incorrectly believes it is).
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 04, 2018, 10:33:37 pm
For SK 11, could a shape point be added between SK219 and LorAve in Saskatoon? Right now, it looks like SK 11 follows Lorne Ave instead of the Idylwyld Freeway. On the system map, this could also look like an extension of SK 219 (which is made even more confusing since Wikipedia incorrectly believes it is).

A labeled waypoint at the (very) partial interchange with Taylor Street should do the trick. We prefer to use labeled waypoints for shaping where possible, though especially in rural areas that's sometimes not possible.

The revised file is in my queue, though I'll hold off on pulling this in until mid-week or so.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on March 05, 2018, 03:04:20 am
OK. I'm fine with the point order as-is.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on March 06, 2018, 12:56:46 pm
My notes for routes 2 through 10: (critical in bold)

SK 2
-add WP @ 3 St (Rockglen)
-add WPs @ Dominion St, 6 St (Assiniboia)
-WP54 (SK202) is in the wrong location (SK 202 needs to be fixed as well - it should routed south to Twp Rd 184)
-the SP between WPs 29 and 30 is off
-add WPs @ Hodlfast, Dana access roads
-add WP @ Pulp Haul Rd north of Prince Albert

SK 3
-WP 26 (SK697) should be moved 2 miles east
-match WPs with SK 4 through Glaslyn and with SK2 through Prince Albert

-add WP @ Twp Rd 464 (Birch Hills)
-add WP @ Marcotte St (Hudson Bay)

SK4
-add WP @ Rhineland Access Rd
-add WP @ Saskatchewan Dr (Swift Current)

SK5
-add WP @Spadina Cr, 2nd Ave (Saskatoon)
-add WP @Anaheim Access Rd
-change WP49 to SK746
-add WP @ 1st St (Canora)

SK6
-add WP @ SK729 (Twp Rd 202)
-add WP @ SK743 (Twp Rd 310)

-delete WP 50,51

SK7
-change WP 37 to SK672/762

SK8
-add WP @ Wright Rd (Moosomin)
-add WP @ Ellise St (Rocanville)
-remove "600" from WP23 (only SK308)
-rename WP 62 (not "SK662"?)


SK9
-add WP @Marcotte St (Hudson Bay)

SK10
-add SP on curve in Melville
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 06, 2018, 01:57:18 pm
My notes so far on your comments so far.

I'll be hitting the road in a few days. Before then, I'll do a pull request for the changes indicated below. While I'm out (at least two weeks), I won't be doing much work on cansk, but can respond to questions. My notes below illustrate my general approach, especially on adding waypoints.

SK 2

...

-WP54 (SK202) is in the wrong location (SK 202 needs to be fixed as well - it should routed south to Twp Rd 184)

2013 GMSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.5717679,-105.5636937,3a,75y,102.93h,86.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shkGQO2DBB2mHlCnGoJuL_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US) shows an SK 202 marker on the alignment shown in OSM/Mapnik, and that the alternate alignment shown in Google Maps is only a detour route (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.5396149,-105.5346039,3a,75y,11.76h,77.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slJAxCbs35LaeFKJDIsN4gg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-US). The official highway map shows both routings as paved, without indicating which one is SK 202.

OTOH, the 2016 provincial traffic count report (which I didn't have when I drafted the SK 2 and SK 202 route files) seems to agree with you. The traffic count report item on SK 202 is unclear about how it connects to route SK 2. But the SK 2 list indicates that its junction with SK 202 is about 4.91km SE of the SK 42 junction, which would put the SK 2/202 junction right around township road 184. So I'll make that adjustment.

This seems to be just one example of conflicts among the online mapping sources. I usually go with OSM/Mapnik over Google Maps, but sometimes GM is right, and sometimes both are wrong. And official sources can be unclear as well, though here one of them is clear enough. Grrrr.

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SK 2 (other)
-add WP @ 3 St (Rockglen)
-add WPs @ Dominion St, 6 St (Assiniboia)

Not needed for shaping.  One waypoint in Rockglen, and three waypoints in Assiniboia should be enough for communities of their size, unless someone specifically needs another for their list files. Especially with all the new systems being added in the Eastern Hemisphere, I'm being conservative about adding points (labeled or shaping) to TM's server.

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-the SP between WPs 29 and 30 is off

By about 0.01 mile. I'm tweaking it since SK 2 needs other changes anyway, but otherwise I'd let it go. I don't view shaping points (unlike labeled waypoints) as a high-precision exercise, so long as the route as shown in OSM/Mapnik stays within lateral tolerances.

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-add WPs @ Hodlfast, Dana access roads

SK732_E covers Holdfast's south access.

As for Dana, seems to be a tiny ghost town near a closed military site (along with Sage Hill, closer to SK 2). Not crazy about adding otherwise-unneeded points for every little town near a highway, especially the ones not right on the highway. (Turns out that West Bend, for which I just added a point on SK 310, also fits that description, so that'll go too.)

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-add WP @ Pulp Haul Rd north of Prince Albert

Not needed on SK 2 for shaping or otherwise, and it's less than two miles from existing SK 2 waypoint SK355. There is a PulpHaulRd point on SK 55, but that one is needed for shaping and/or distance, not because of the importance of the road.

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SK 3
-WP 26 (SK697) should be moved 2 miles east

Google Maps says SK 697 goes south from SK 3 there. OSM/Mapnik says it only goes north, from where we have it. GMSV confirms the former, but not the latter. But the traffic count report suggests that Mapnik is right.

So I'll split the difference, create a new SK697_S point at the location you suggest, and rename the existing SK697 point to SK697_N.

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-match WPs with SK 4 through Glaslyn and with SK2 through Prince Albert[/b]

Thanks. These probably won't be the only broken concurrences needing a fix -- I'll have to look for others.

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-add WP @ Twp Rd 464 (Birch Hills)
-add WP @ Marcotte St (Hudson Bay)

TR 464 is only about 0.3 mile from waypoint SK25. SK 25 and WilSt seem good enough in Birch Hills.

As for Marcotte St. in Hudson Bay (on SK 9 as well as SK 3), even if a point there were needed for shaping (not really, the curve in Hudson Bay between the two SK 3/9 junctions is just barely within lateral tolerance), it's also not shown in OSM/Mapnik, only in Google Maps. So we don't have any open-source/non-commercial coordinates for that intersection, unless perhaps we go to the shapefiles which I'd rather not do here. As a matter of policy, TM avoids grabbing coordinates from commercial mapping like Google Maps, though it's OK to consult those sources on other matters such as waypoint names.

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SK5
-change WP49 to SK746

I think you meant waypoint 50, SK745 (please refer to labels rather than or in addition to waypoint numbers, which can change as I edit the file). Anyway, SK745 => SK746. Also, RR51 => TinyRd (identified in the traffic count report).

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-add WP @Spadina Cr, 2nd Ave (Saskatoon)
-add WP @Anaheim Access Rd
-add WP @ 1st St (Canora)

All of these are very close to existing waypoints, and I think don't help. The Annaheim Access Road is interesting for being paved, which is unusual for such a long unnumbered rural road in Saskatchewan. But it does go a long way off SK 5 to a rather small community, plus its intersection with SK 5 is only about a mile away from existing waypoint SK667.

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SK6
-add WP @ SK729 (Twp Rd 202)
-add WP @ SK743 (Twp Rd 310)


Added. SK 743 was really hard to find, since online mapping doesn't show it anywhere near SK 6, nor does it usually show township and range road numbers that could otherwise be used as reference points. But 2013 GMSV confirmed my guess about where it would be.

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-delete WP 50,51

I'm guessing you meant 51 (EdgRd) and 52 (FooRd). Adding SK743 between them makes them less necessary, but I'm inclined to leave them in.

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SK7
-change WP 37 to SK672/762

Done.

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SK8
-add WP @ Wright Rd (Moosomin)
-add WP @ Ellise St (Rocanville)

WriRd is needed for shaping. EllSt is not.

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-remove "600" from WP23 (only SK308)

Will do that and other changes. OSM/Mapnik has SK 600 concurrent with SK 8 and SK 308 from Rocanville to Welwyn, which would be a weird unsigned "implied concurrence". However, other maps have SK 600 avoiding Rocanville altogether, winding from Spy Hill to Welwyn well east of Rocanville, or including only segments from Welwyn south, so I question OSM/Mapnik's showing three SK 8/SK 600 intersections. I'll rename the three points on SK 8, and the two on SK 308, with SK600 references.

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-rename WP 62 (not "SK662"?)

2009 GMSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1147354,-102.0551656,3a,24.6y,276.59h,85.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spxBkTqC3vSLMxd74ywq6VQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) shows an SK 662 marker at that location. The latest official road map is unclear about SK 662's routing.

I was going to label the point "SwanPla" until I found the above GMSV imagery (looking in vain for a township road sign, since wasn't sure from the 2008 MapArt atlas or otherwise what the TR number was). If it becomes clearer that SK 662 doesn't go to Swan Plains, I might change the point label back to SwanPla.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on March 26, 2018, 01:45:44 am
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(Turns out that West Bend, for which I just added a point on SK 310, also fits that description, so that'll go too.)
Aah, but does not a visible waypoint trump a hidden shaping point? ;)
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on April 08, 2018, 07:55:35 pm

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SK 2 (other)
-add WP @ 3 St (Rockglen)
-add WPs @ Dominion St, 6 St (Assiniboia)

Not needed for shaping.  One waypoint in Rockglen, and three waypoints in Assiniboia should be enough for communities of their size, unless someone specifically needs another for their list files. Especially with all the new systems being added in the Eastern Hemisphere, I'm being conservative about adding points (labeled or shaping) to TM's server.

I would argue that WPs are required at all intersections where turns are required, otherwise the routing is ambiguous. For example,  I'm having trouble updating my log file for usaush because I don't know (without doing my own research) where US101HisSan is routed through La Jolla.

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-add WPs @ Hodlfast, Dana access roads

SK732_E covers Holdfast's south access.

As for Dana, seems to be a tiny ghost town near a closed military site (along with Sage Hill, closer to SK 2). Not crazy about adding otherwise-unneeded points for every little town near a highway, especially the ones not right on the highway. (Turns out that West Bend, for which I just added a point on SK 310, also fits that description, so that'll go too.)

I'm pointing out all "Access Roads" as candidates for WPs because they are part of the provincial system.

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-add WP @ Pulp Haul Rd north of Prince Albert

Not needed on SK 2 for shaping or otherwise, and it's less than two miles from existing SK 2 waypoint SK355. There is a PulpHaulRd point on SK 55, but that one is needed for shaping and/or distance, not because of the importance of the road.

Pulp Haul Rd is also part of the provincial system.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on April 09, 2018, 09:47:41 am

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SK 2 (other)
-add WP @ 3 St (Rockglen)
-add WPs @ Dominion St, 6 St (Assiniboia)

Not needed for shaping.  One waypoint in Rockglen, and three waypoints in Assiniboia should be enough for communities of their size, unless someone specifically needs another for their list files. Especially with all the new systems being added in the Eastern Hemisphere, I'm being conservative about adding points (labeled or shaping) to TM's server.

I would argue that WPs are required at all intersections where turns are required, otherwise the routing is ambiguous. For example,  I'm having trouble updating my log file for usaush because I don't know (without doing my own research) where US101HisSan is routed through La Jolla.

I disagree, at least for the gentle curves in Assiniboia which seem unlikely to throw off travelers. The 90-degree turn in Rockglen, maybe. That more resembles SK 29 in Wilkie, which goes north into town, turns ESE onto a different-named street, then changes street names again to resume its northward path. I put in points for those turns, since they seemed likely to confuse travelers.

I can't comment on the La Jolla situation, since I'm not maintaining that preview system.

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-add WPs @ Hodlfast, Dana access roads

SK732_E covers Holdfast's south access.

As for Dana, seems to be a tiny ghost town near a closed military site (along with Sage Hill, closer to SK 2). Not crazy about adding otherwise-unneeded points for every little town near a highway, especially the ones not right on the highway. (Turns out that West Bend, for which I just added a point on SK 310, also fits that description, so that'll go too.)

I'm pointing out all "Access Roads" as candidates for WPs because they are part of the provincial system.

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-add WP @ Pulp Haul Rd north of Prince Albert

Not needed on SK 2 for shaping or otherwise, and it's less than two miles from existing SK 2 waypoint SK355. There is a PulpHaulRd point on SK 55, but that one is needed for shaping and/or distance, not because of the importance of the road.

Pulp Haul Rd is also part of the provincial system.

How can you tell these roads are "part of the provincial system"? They don't have route numbers, either in the 1-399 primary routes or the 9xx province-maintained secondary routes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on April 11, 2018, 01:34:58 pm
How can you tell these roads are "part of the provincial system"? They don't have route numbers, either in the 1-399 primary routes or the 9xx province-maintained secondary routes.

This could be a situation similar to Manitoba. I'm not familiar with what exactly it is or how it works, but the Manitoba Land Initiative shapefiles include Provincial Trunk Highways, Provincial Roads, and "Access Roads", which have a ROAD_NO attribute of 600-something. They don't always correspond to a single road; for example, there's one in Ethelbert, from MB10A (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=mb.mb010aeth) via Main St, Railway Ave, 2 St, and River Ave to MB279.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on April 29, 2018, 11:12:14 am
How can you tell these roads are "part of the provincial system"? They don't have route numbers, either in the 1-399 primary routes or the 9xx province-maintained secondary routes.

They are included and shown the same as numbered provincial highways on the official road map. Prior to 1998, they were labelled separately as "Provincial Roads" (similar to the 900 series). They are the forest green coloured lines on the control section map we have been referencing.

This could be a situation similar to Manitoba. I'm not familiar with what exactly it is or how it works, but the Manitoba Land Initiative shapefiles include Provincial Trunk Highways, Provincial Roads, and "Access Roads", which have a ROAD_NO attribute of 600-something. They don't always correspond to a single road; for example, there's one in Ethelbert, from MB10A (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?r=mb.mb010aeth) via Main St, Railway Ave, 2 St, and River Ave to MB279.

Also in Alberta, where they are called "Urban Approach Roads". Alberta also has a formalized network of "Park Approach Roads". Both of these systems are shown on the Hwy 1- 216 Progress Chart.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on April 29, 2018, 05:26:34 pm
My notes for routes 11 through 20:

SK 11
-Route should start as Victoria Ave instead of Albert Street south. There is no signage for "SK 11" on any of the approaches south of Victoria Ave, except for the WB to NB ramp from Arcola Ave (SK 33), which technically should have a "TO" attached to it. This may change once the Regina Bypass fully opens.
-change WP 52 "SK663" --> "GrasswoodRd" (can't find any evidence of this ever being part of SK663)
-move route from Idylwyld Dr to Circle Drive. Both the north and south approaches are signed to Circle Dr:
https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm (https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm)
https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy (https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy)
-change WP70 "RR3052" --> "WanRd" (Wanuskewin Road)

SK13
-change WP26 "SouForkRd" --> "SK633"
-move WP34 "StuRd" 1 mile east to Admiral Access Rd and rename
-add WP @ Khedive Access Rd
-add WP @ SK600_S and change WP111 "SK600" --> "SK600_N"

SK14
-rename WP46 "CirDr" --> "SK11" in conjunction with SK11 changes
-rename WP48 "SK11" --> "IdylDr" in conjunction with SK11 changes

SK15
-move WP8 "Red Deer Rd" 1 mile east to Conquest Access Rd and rename
-change WP27 "SK20/744" --> "SK20_N"
-add WP @ Dielschneider Rd (Melville) (turn required)

SK17
-Should the segment north of AB14/SK40 also be included as SK17 (currently included in the canab system), since they are dual signed?

SK18
-add WP @ "1Ave" (Glentworth) (turn required)
-change WP67 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"
-change WP98 "SK39A" --> "SK39/39A"
-change WP104 "RR2045" --> "SK604_S"
-change WP105 "SK604" --> "SK604_N"
-add WP @ "SK603_S" (Marconie Rd, Oxbow)
-add WP @ "SK603_N"
-change WP111 "RR2011" --> "SK601_S"
-add WP @ "SK601_N" (Glen Ewen)

SK20
-change WP20 "SK15/744" --> "SK15_W"
-add WP @ SK744
-add WP @ "QueenSt" (Nokomis) (turn required)
-add WP @ Tway Access Rd

Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on April 29, 2018, 06:57:07 pm
Just two quick notes on SK 11, while I munch through the rest of your comments.


SK 11
-Route should start as Victoria Ave instead of Albert Street south. There is no signage for "SK 11" on any of the approaches south of Victoria Ave, except for the WB to NB ramp from Arcola Ave (SK 33), which technically should have a "TO" attached to it. This may change once the Regina Bypass fully opens.

Last I was there in summer 2016, I saw SK 11 signage on Ring Rd. all the way down to Albert St., which is what led me to add that part of Ring Rd. to SK 11.

One possible reason for that is once the Regina Bypass is complete, and if TCH 1 is moved to the bypass, that leaves part of Ring Rd. without a route number. Extending SK 11 to include that segment would be a logical way to deal with that, though I don't know whether there is any plan to do that.

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-move route from Idylwyld Dr to Circle Drive. Both the north and south approaches are signed to Circle Dr:
https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm (https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm)
https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy (https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy)

The signage is really inconsistent, with signage from the south at the TCH 16 junction indicating that SK 11 goes both west and north on Circle Drive. As discussed above (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2320.msg8505#msg8505), we went to the shapefiles to cut through the thoroughly clusterforked route signage in Saskatoon, and concluded that SK 11 follows Idylwind Dr.

I'll dig into this later when I'm less busy, but that is why we moved SK 11 off the NE quadrant of Circle Dr. onto the SE quadrant and Idylwild Dr.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: vdeane on May 05, 2018, 05:47:59 pm
Last I was there in summer 2016, I saw SK 11 signage on Ring Rd. all the way down to Albert St., which is what led me to add that part of Ring Rd. to SK 11.

One possible reason for that is once the Regina Bypass is complete, and if TCH 1 is moved to the bypass, that leaves part of Ring Dr. without a route number. Extending SK 11 to include that segment would be a logical way to deal with that, though I don't know whether there is any plan to do that.
It would also leave part of TCH 1 unnumbered if it was rerouted... if they wanted to keep everything numbered, extending SK 46 through a short overlap would seem to be the easiest option.  It will be interesting to see what happens.

There's also the existing part of the ring road from Pasqua Street/9th Avenue North to SK 6/11 signed simply as "Ring Road", so they might just go without a number.

And, of course, none of this is made any easier since Saskatchewan seems to be allergic to using "TO" banners on signage.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 06, 2018, 01:04:36 am
And, of course, none of this is made any easier since Saskatchewan seems to be allergic to using "TO" banners on signage.

"TO" banners are used often, though not consistently, to indicate implied multiplexes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on May 06, 2018, 11:58:03 pm
Quote
SK 11
-Route should start as Victoria Ave instead of Albert Street south. There is no signage for "SK 11" on any of the approaches south of Victoria Ave, except for the WB to NB ramp from Arcola Ave (SK 33), which technically should have a "TO" attached to it. This may change once the Regina Bypass fully opens.

Last I was there in summer 2016, I saw SK 11 signage on Ring Rd. all the way down to Albert St., which is what led me to add that part of Ring Rd. to SK 11.

Northbound true, nothing southbound. I don't mind leaving it as is for now until the Regina Bypass signage plays out.

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Quote
-move route from Idylwyld Dr to Circle Drive. Both the north and south approaches are signed to Circle Dr:
https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm (https://goo.gl/maps/FmxbPQQCaJm)
https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy (https://goo.gl/maps/5Km12yETHiy)

The signage is really inconsistent, with signage from the south at the TCH 16 junction indicating that SK 11 goes both west and north on Circle Drive. As discussed above (http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2320.msg8505#msg8505), we went to the shapefiles to cut through the thoroughly clusterforked route signage in Saskatoon, and concluded that SK 11 follows Idylwind Dr.

I'll dig into this later when I'm less busy, but that is why we moved SK 11 off the NE quadrant of Circle Dr. onto the SE quadrant and Idylwild Dr.

SK 11 was routed along Idylwyld until Circle Drive SW opened. Now SK 11 and TC 16 are both routed both ways around the circle. For travel mapping purposes it makes sense to retains TC 16 as the east/northeast leg, since that was its historical routing, and reroute SK 11 on the south/west leg. Idylwyld Drive will likely continue to be signed as SK 11/ TC 16 indefinitely (except for the aforementioned approaches), since it acts as the de-facto business route. This is the situation in Regina along both Albert Street and Victoria Avenue. There are several route shields for TC 1 and SK 6 along those roads, and this sign gantry at the junction: https://goo.gl/maps/8Lhg92XvsGC2 (https://goo.gl/maps/8Lhg92XvsGC2)

I would suggest that Idylwyld, Alberta St, and Victoria Ave all be added to cannf and that that system be renamed as "Select Freeways and Highway Connectors".

There's also the existing part of the ring road from Pasqua Street/9th Avenue North to SK 6/11 signed simply as "Ring Road", so they might just go without a number.

Yes, the intermediate interchanges refer only to "Ring Rd". The signage at the connecting ends is clear at least (it's SK 6/11). This stems from the fact that this section is controlled by the City, not the province.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 07, 2018, 02:59:33 pm
Went through all of the 11-20 changes.

SK 11
-change WP 52 "SK663" --> "GraRd" (can't find any evidence of this ever being part of SK663)

...

-change WP70 "RR3052" --> "WanRd" (Wanuskewin Road)

Changes made to my local copy, to be pulled in later.

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SK13
-change WP26 "SouForkRd" --> "SK633"
-move WP34 "StuRd" 1 mile east to Admiral Access Rd and rename
-add WP @ Khedive Access Rd
-add WP @ SK600_S and change WP111 "SK600" --> "SK600_N"

Changes made to my local copy. My enthusiasm for adding access roads is restrained, but for Admiral the access road replaces another waypoint I put in basically because OSM showed a name for that unimportant road; and for Khedive the access road is not too close to an existing waypoint.

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SK14
-rename WP46 "CirDr" --> "SK11" in conjunction with SK11 changes
-rename WP48 "SK11" --> "IdylDr" in conjunction with SK11 changes

I'm puzzled by the first -- I thought the debate on SK 11 was whether it followed Idylwild Dr., or TCH 16 around the east side of Saskatoon; I didn't think there was any reliable indication SK 11 follows Circle Dr. west of Saskatoon.

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SK15
-move WP8 "Red Deer Rd" 1 mile east to Conquest Access Rd and rename
-change WP27 "SK20/744" --> "SK20_N"
-add WP @ Dielschneider Rd (Melville) (turn required)

Changes made to my local copy. It helps on the access roads that MapArt's 2008 maps show the access roads, and that they are named as "___ Access Road", even though the names don't show up in OSM, GM, or GMSV.

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SK17
-Should the segment north of AB14/SK40 also be included as SK17 (currently included in the canab system), since they are dual signed?

yakra, any thoughts? My inclination would be to not dual-designate, since that would mean more work for both of us if anything needs to be changed.

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SK18
-add WP @ "1Ave" (Glentworth) (turn required)
-change WP67 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"
-change WP98 "SK39A" --> "SK39/39A"
-change WP104 "RR2045" --> "SK604_S"
-change WP105 "SK604" --> "SK604_N"
-add WP @ "SK603_S" (Marconie Rd, Oxbow)
-add WP @ "SK603_N"
-change WP111 "RR2011" --> "SK601_S"
-add WP @ "SK601_N" (Glen Ewen)

Changes made to my local copy.

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SK20
-change WP20 "SK15/744" --> "SK15_W"
-add WP @ SK744
-add WP @ "QueenSt" (Nokomis) (turn required)
-add WP @ Tway Access Rd

All added to my local copy. Tway Access Rd. is pretty borderline, with Tway's population only about 10, but it's not that far away from SK 20.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on May 07, 2018, 11:40:25 pm
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SK14
-rename WP46 "CirDr" --> "SK11" in conjunction with SK11 changes
-rename WP48 "SK11" --> "IdylDr" in conjunction with SK11 changes

I'm puzzled by the first -- I thought the debate on SK 11 was whether it followed Idylwild Dr., or TCH 16 around the east side of Saskatoon; I didn't think there was any reliable indication SK 11 follows Circle Dr. west of Saskatoon.
There's a good deal of signage that I saw along the western leg when looking at the area during the CANNF discussion.
1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0849527,-106.6044313,3a,32.3y,-0.28h,105.2t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sYGEHGBBAt1o9Vc_VcURyfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0895142,-106.5974587,3a,28.2y,272.36h,96.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smnJG0QzEbaJqwRvicOTU1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0941662,-106.6049883,3a,20.2y,177.66h,95.27t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sXk6DDykhDZZ0cwYATdjQrw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0899408,-106.6483387,3a,15.4y,266.53h,96.59t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sD_DQOH97-63jIEttJ57Axw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41) 5 (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1292811,-106.7230441,3a,75y,91.32h,95.38t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sNgFQmWOahW7z7RBTZ21DuA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i41)
That the shapefiles have no number on the western leg may not be worth all that much. Having less first-hand in-depth experience with SK, I can't say where its shapefiles lie on the spectrum of "AB is mostly pretty solid, if quirky" to "MB has a lot of grossly outdated info"...

Quote
SK17
-Should the segment north of AB14/SK40 also be included as SK17 (currently included in the canab system), since they are dual signed?

yakra, any thoughts? My inclination would be to not dual-designate, since that would mean more work for both of us if anything needs to be changed.
I've always thought dual-designate here. The SK segments are in the SK shapefiles, and all the AB segments now in the HB are signed for both provinces where there's Street View.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 08, 2018, 03:00:09 pm
Quote
SK17
-Should the segment north of AB14/SK40 also be included as SK17 (currently included in the canab system), since they are dual signed?

yakra, any thoughts? My inclination would be to not dual-designate, since that would mean more work for both of us if anything needs to be changed.
I've always thought dual-designate here. The SK segments are in the SK shapefiles, and all the AB segments now in the HB are signed for both provinces where there's Street View.

Would you dual-designate all five AB 17 segments (ab.ab017, sk.ab017san, ab.ab017rei, sk.ab017nsr, ab.ab017oni)? GMSV doesn't cover all the segments, but julmac is the one driver who's clinched all five segments.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: si404 on May 08, 2018, 06:01:36 pm
surely if the segments are part of both systems it doesn't make sense to only put them in one?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on May 19, 2018, 11:15:12 am
Would you dual-designate all five AB 17 segments (ab.ab017, sk.ab017san, ab.ab017rei, sk.ab017nsr, ab.ab017oni)? GMSV doesn't cover all the segments, but julmac is the one driver who's clinched all five segments.
Yes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on May 19, 2018, 01:59:50 pm
Would you dual-designate all five AB 17 segments (ab.ab017, sk.ab017san, ab.ab017rei, sk.ab017nsr, ab.ab017oni)? GMSV doesn't cover all the segments, but julmac is the one driver who's clinched all five segments.
Yes.

Agreed, yes. By agreement established in the 1960s, Saskatchewan maintains all of Highway 17, even the sections outright inside Alberta. Costs are split 50/50 between the two provinces. It's dual signed throughout except for the most southern section (within Saskatchewan) which is SK17 only .
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on May 19, 2018, 03:37:44 pm
My notes for routes 21 through 30:

SK22
-this route should probably be broken into two segments with a gap between SK35 and SK10_E. Both of these points have "END" sings facing SK22, and there is no indication of SK22 or "TO" SK22 anywhere in between.

SK23
-convert SP10 into WP... this might be the actual location of "SK677", at least according to my 1994 Grid Road Map it is.
-add WP @ "SK776" (west of Bjorkdale)
-move WP31 "BirRd" one block north to "SK789" and rename

SK26
-add WP @ Metinota Access Road
-move WP14 "SK3_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP23 "SK795_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP25 "BacCorRd_N" further south (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-add WP@ "SK779" (1/2 mile north of SK55)
-add WP @ Centre Ave (Goodsoil)
-add WP @ "SK224/954" (north of Goodsoil) and truncate route to here (adjust the south end of SK224 to here as well)
-remove WP44 "SK224/950" in conjunction with above

SK27
-adjust location of WP0 "SK41/784" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 25, 2018, 11:54:46 am
SK22
-this route should probably be broken into two segments with a gap between SK35 and SK10_E. Both of these points have "END" sings facing SK22, and there is no indication of SK22 or "TO" SK22 anywhere in between.

I agree, even though OSM and Google maps show a concurrency. The End signs are the clincher, but also complicating an "implied concurrency" linking the two SK 22 segments is that the supposed concurrency is with two routes (SK 35 and SK 10), which makes it hard for travelers to get from one segment to the other with no help from signage or maps. I think mapcat has been not recognizing two-route "implied concurrencies" in Tennessee, and I broke up CA 193 (supposed concurrency with I-80 and CA 49) for similar reasons.

So I'll break up SK 22 into a western Southey segment and a longer eastern Esterhazy segment.

Quote
SK23
-convert SP10 into WP... this might be the actual location of "SK677", at least according to my 1994 Grid Road Map it is.
-add WP @ "SK776" (west of Bjorkdale)
-move WP31 "BirRd" one block north to "SK789" and rename

Changes added to my local copy. First one, with no GMSV coverage in that area, I can't confirm SK 677 is currently at that intersection rather than where I have it, though MapArt 2008 seems to match the old Grid Road Map. I'm leaving that alone, in favor of where OSM puts the intersection.

Quote
SK26
 
...

-move WP14 "SK3_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP23 "SK795_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP25 "BacCorRd_N" further south (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

The new alignments (one of which would also affect the SK 3 route file) are shown in Google Maps and its satellite imagery, but not OSM/Mapnik. It looks like Google's mapping is more up to date, but we can't grab coordinates from that commercial source. So I'd stick with existing waypoints from the open-source OSM/Mapnik data, unless and until it gets updated.

The HERE maps in the Highway Browser agree with Google on these intersections. However, I'm unsure whether it is a permissible source for coordinates, or rather uses Google data (it seems to often match Google mapping) and so would also be off-limits. Also, our existing waypoint editor doesn't let us grab coordinates directly from HERE, even if it is a permissible source.

Quote
SK26
-add WP @ Metinota Access Road

Since it isn't marked on online maps, and MapArt's 2008 atlas is not detailed enough to pinpoint the access road's location, I'd be only guessing where to put the waypoint for the access road. It might run from the second intersection south of 1StE in Meota, east to the second shaping point on SK 4 north of SK 26 (which could be changed to a labeled waypoint). EDIT: Point added in my local copy to SK 26 (replacing 1StE about .4 km to the north in Meota), and corresponding point on SK 4 (replacing shaping point), with help from the SK route log.

Quote
SK26
-add WP@ "SK779" (1/2 mile north of SK55)
-add WP @ Centre Ave (Goodsoil)
-add WP @ "SK224/954" (north of Goodsoil) and truncate route to here (adjust the south end of SK224 to here as well)
-remove WP44 "SK224/950" in conjunction with above

In my local copy. Good catch on the north end of SK 26/west end of SK 224, which disagrees with OSM but is supported by the official route log.

Quote
SK27
-adjust location of WP0 "SK41/784" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

I'm dubious about this one. Google Maps shows the realignment, but not its satellite view, nor any other online mapping including HERE. Even if the intersection location changed in the field, we don't have open-source coordinates for the new location, so like some similar situations noted above for SK 26, I'm leaving this alone.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on May 30, 2018, 12:02:25 pm
Need any coordinates from shapefiles?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 31, 2018, 07:15:15 pm
Need any coordinates from shapefiles?

Not yet. The instances discussed above, (a) there will be more of them, so let's wait; and (b) we have adequate coordinates from OSM already, inclined to just go with those and maybe OSM will fix any errors in the not-too-distant future.

I've finished my responses to julmac's comments through SK 30. The changes to my local copies will get pulled in later, once I have more time to get the hang of the new system to spot errors in pull requests.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on May 31, 2018, 11:43:14 pm
Are you doing anything that would mean big changes, such as to CSVs?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 01, 2018, 06:18:33 am
Are you doing anything that would mean big changes, such as to CSVs?

Yes, the csv changes from splitting SK 22 into two segments, and adding four SK 17 segments.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 12, 2018, 11:49:20 am
Quote
SK26
 
...

-move WP14 "SK3_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP23 "SK795_E" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)
-move WP25 "BacCorRd_N" further south (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

The new alignments (one of which would also affect the SK 3 route file) are shown in Google Maps and its satellite imagery, but not OSM/Mapnik. It looks like Google's mapping is more up to date, but we can't grab coordinates from that commercial source. So I'd stick with existing waypoints from the open-source OSM/Mapnik data, unless and until it gets updated.

The HERE maps in the Highway Browser agree with Google on these intersections. However, I'm unsure whether it is a permissible source for coordinates, or rather uses Google data (it seems to often match Google mapping) and so would also be off-limits. Also, our existing waypoint editor doesn't let us grab coordinates directly from HERE, even if it is a permissible source.

Quote
SK27
-adjust location of WP0 "SK41/784" further north (minor re-alignment of the intersection was implemented recently)

I'm dubious about this one. Google Maps shows the realignment, but not its satellite view, nor any other online mapping including HERE. Even if the intersection location changed in the field, we don't have open-source coordinates for the new location, so like some similar situations noted above for SK 26, I'm leaving this alone.

We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.

I'll look over the intersections flagged above, and others you mentioned, to move the waypoints as appropriate.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on June 16, 2018, 09:26:51 pm
We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.

I'll look over the intersections flagged above, and others you mentioned, to move the waypoints as appropriate.

I'm really liking 'Esri WorldGrayCanvas' (even though "Grey" is spelled oddly), but am also really missing Street View, particularly because it has a date stamp. Those intersection relocations are evident from GMSV.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on June 16, 2018, 09:50:17 pm
My notes for routes 31 through 40:

SK31
-change WP13 "SK771" --> "SK675/771"

SK32
-add WP @ "SK634" (Lancer Ferry Road)

SK34
- WP0 (*) in front of "MT/SK"?

SK35
- change WP37 "SK10/22" --> "SK10_E"
- SP77 is miss-located slightly
- add WP @ Ridgedale Access Road

SK36
- change WP4 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"

SK37
- add WPs in Gull Lake @ 2nd Street to remove ambiguity (important because Google Maps routes it along Main Street). OSM routing is as signed in the field.

SK39
- move WP17 "SK621" one bock north and rename to "SK621_S"
- add WP @ "SK621_N" (south end of Yellow Grass)
- add WP @ Roche Percée Access Road

SK40
-add WP @ "SK680" (Artland Road)
-add WP @ Battleford Rd (match with TCHYel WPs)
-add WP @ "SK16B_E" (match with TCHYel WPs)
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 16, 2018, 10:36:45 pm
SK34
- WP0 (*) in front of "MT/SK"?

The asterisk means it's a closed intersection, since the road is now barricaded at the border and you can no longer legally continue (even on foot) to the road on the other side, Montana secondary route 511. SR 511 also has an asterisk on its northernmost waypoint. We also made a point of leaving SK 34 and SR 511's border points slightly out of synch, so the Highway Browser doesn't mistakenly identify them as intersecting routes.

Quote
SK35
- change WP37 "SK10/22" --> "SK10_E"
- SP77 is miss-located slightly

The rename of WP37 was just added to the HB, as part of this weekend's pull request which split SK 22 in two.

I'm not sure where SP77 is located, since the previous edits to SK 35 changed the waypoint numbers. My guess is it's one of the two shaping points between SK773 and SK776. Neither SP needs to be changed if no other change to the file is needed, but I'll look at your suggested additional SK 35 change later and if I make that change I'll tweak the SPs while I'm at it.

I'll get to other comments later.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: vdeane on June 17, 2018, 07:24:50 pm
We just redid our highway browser, and waypoint editor. The new versions don't include Google Maps and its satellite imagery, due to a policy change by Google. However, both new versions add a variety of other mapping sources, including at least one (ESRI World Imagery) that looks like a decent replacement for Google Maps' satellite imagery. Other mapping sources might also replace Google Maps for spotting or confirming where waypoints might need to be updated.
The issue with ESRI World Imagery is, if it's the same one used as a basemap by ArcMap, is that it's years behind Google's.  Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to suggest.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 17, 2018, 08:13:10 pm
The issue with ESRI World Imagery is, if it's the same one used as a basemap by ArcMap, is that it's years behind Google's.  Unfortunately, I don't have an alternative to suggest.

In the views I used for the edits in my latest pull request, ESRI WI was as up to date in SK (or out of date in Hawaii) as Google Maps satellite view.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: vdeane on June 17, 2018, 09:22:51 pm
Hmm... either the version used for ArcMap is way out of date compared to what we have, or they updated it in the last few months.  I recall several sections where it was out of date when doing the ADA inventory update last year.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 20, 2018, 09:25:42 am

SK31
-change WP13 "SK771" --> "SK675/771"

In my local copy.

Quote
SK32
-add WP @ "SK634" (Lancer Ferry Road)

Added SK639 in my local copy, replacing BalSt less than a quarter-mile away.

Quote
SK35
- add WP @ Ridgedale Access Road

What looks like the access road's intersection with SK 35 is only about a half-mile from existing waypoint SK748. Not worth adding.

Quote

SK36
- change WP4 "PopMineRd" --> "SK602"

SK37
- add WPs in Gull Lake @ 2nd Street to remove ambiguity (important because Google Maps routes it along Main Street). OSM routing is as signed in the field.

All changed or added in my local copy.

Quote
SK39
- move WP17 "SK621" one bock north and rename to "SK621_S"
- add WP @ "SK621_N" (south end of Yellow Grass)
- add WP @ Roche Percée Access Road

Made to my local copy. OSM thinks the Roche Percee access road intersection with SK 39 (which appears to be right next to the boundary between two rural municipalities) is closed. But that's an outlier, and the Highways and Infrastructure ministry recently did some major work on one of the access road's bridges, so I doubt it was planning to disconnect the access road from SK 39.

Quote
SK40
-add WP @ "SK680" (Artland Road)
-add WP @ Battleford Rd (match with TCHYel WPs)
-add WP @ "SK16B_E" (match with TCHYel WPs)

I added the point for ArtRd. Didn't see in GMSV signs confirming that it's SK 680.

Good catch on the broken concurrence with TCHYel.

===

That addresses all your comments up to SK 40. I'll put in a pull request for my edits, unless you have comments in progress on the 41-49 routes. I'll be out of town for a few weeks starting next Monday, so I'll aim for a pull request this weekend with what I have by then. EDIT: Changes for SK 31-40 submitted, and pulled into the HB.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on July 28, 2018, 11:14:51 pm
My notes for routes 41 through 49:

SK41
- move WP3  "SK27/784" (as with SK27) to match intersection re-alignment

SK44
- move WP1 "ToAB570" to the intersection north of the curve and rename to "ToAB570_N"
- move WP2 "RR293" to the west and rename as "ToAB570_E"
- change WP10 RR261 -->"SK635"

SK47
- add WPs @ "SK704_E" (Rge Rd 32) and "SK704_W" (Rge Rd 34) north of Estevan

SK48
- change WP19 SK617 -->"SK617_N"
- change WP21 3St --> "SK617_S"

SK49
- add WP @ Twp Rd 332 (between WP25 "SK8/661" and WP26 "SK648") for shaping purposes
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on July 30, 2018, 10:04:31 pm
SK41
- move WP3  "SK27/784" (as with SK27) to match intersection re-alignment

I discussed this when you raised it for SK 27. I looked at GMSV again, and the 2016 imagery convinces me that the intersection was relocated as indicated in Google Maps. But none of the other online maps available to us show the relocation. AIUI, we can't use Google Maps, or GMSV, to grab coordinates for our route files without potentially running afoul of Google's terms of service. That means leaving the waypoint as is (for SK 27 as well as SK 41), at least until other online maps are updated or we come up with some other open-source coordinates for the new intersection location.

Some very recent shapefiles might give us what we need, assuming they've been updated at this low-population location. If the Infrastructure ministry doesn't do annual or bi-annual collections of updated shapefile data for all its highways, it might not have updated this location, even though it's not that far from major city Saskatoon.

Quote
SK44
- move WP1 "ToAB570" to the intersection north of the curve and rename to "ToAB570_N"
- move WP2 "RR293" to the west and rename as "ToAB570_E"
- change WP10 RR261 -->"SK635"

Above changes made in my local copy, except I moved ToAB570 to the place where you proposed ToAB570_E, and deleted RR293 in favor of a new shaping point a few miles east. I don't think we need two separate ToAB570 points, and the one at the eastern leg of the junction seems more sensible.

Quote
SK47
- add WPs @ "SK704_E" (Rge Rd 32) and "SK704_W" (Rge Rd 34) north of Estevan

SK48
- change WP19 SK617 -->"SK617_N"
- change WP21 3St --> "SK617_S"

SK49
- add WP @ Twp Rd 332 (between WP25 "SK8/661" and WP26 "SK648") for shaping purposes

All in my local copy.

I'll put in a pull request for these changes in the next few days, unless you plan another batch of comments by this weekend.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on August 08, 2018, 03:16:19 pm
Quote
AIUI, we can't use Google Maps, or GMSV, to grab coordinates for our route files without potentially running afoul of Google's terms of service. That means leaving the waypoint as is (for SK 27 as well as SK 41), at least until other online maps are updated or we come up with some other open-source coordinates for the new intersection location.

Some very recent shapefiles might give us what we need, assuming they've been updated at this low-population location.
SK27/784 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.319059&lon=-106.26057
Interesting -- check it out in ESRI WorldImagery -- looks like the ROW is longer being farmed.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on August 08, 2018, 05:46:49 pm
Thanks, yakra. I'll insert the point into the SK 27 and SK 41 files, and pull them in, once the pending pull request for the rest of SK peer review up to SK 49 is processed.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on November 18, 2018, 04:33:27 pm
My notes for routes 51 through 99:

SK54
- delete WP4  "RaiAve" (not signed past "CenSt")

SK55
- add WP @ SK691 (east of SK255)

SK56
- add WP @ fork east of Lebret ("OldHwy10" or "LebretAccRd")
- change WP12 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on November 18, 2018, 05:06:42 pm
My notes for routes 51 through 99:

SK54
- delete WP4  "RaiAve" (not signed past "CenSt").

As discussed upthread (http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2320.msg9084#msg9084), the shapefiles and 2016 provincial traffic count report indicate SK 54 continues past CenSt to RaiAve. I agree the turn north of the CenSt waypoint is not signed, but otherwise RaiAve seems to be the appropriate endpoint.

There are discussions upthread of where I got help from the shapefiles on some higher-numbered routes (especially the 1xx northern primary routes), which you might look up as your review goes into the three-digit routes.

Quote
SK55
- add WP @ SK691 (east of SK255)

In my local copy. There is already an SK691 waypoint west of SK6, which I've renamed SK691_N with the new point becoming SK691_S.

Quote
SK56
- add WP @ fork east of Lebret ("OldHwy10" or "LebretAccRd")
- change WP12 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"

Second item done in my local copy. I'm not sure about the first, unless it's something you need for your own list file. The new point would be about a kilometer from an existing point, and is not helpful for shaping. It's an unnamed road in the online maps I've looked up and in the 2008 MapArt atlas, which suggests it's no longer a significant road even if it once was part of SK 10.

EDIT: The changes made in my local route file copies are now in the Highway Browser.

NOTE TO SELF: Construction ongoing for SK 11 relocation near Warman, and relocation/extension of SK 305 between RR3045 and new SK 11 alignment (relocation between RR3045 and old SK 11 alignment occurred by August 2018 visit). New alignment open to NB 11 traffic, could open soon to SB 11 traffic if crews can beat winter weather, otherwise in 2019. Unclear whether SK 305 extension is open. Project completion, including improvements to SK 12, targeted for August 2019. Construction completed enough for me to put into the HB the new SK 11 alignment, short extension of SK 305, and tweak of one SK 12 waypoint.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on January 03, 2019, 04:09:24 pm
My notes for routes 102 through 271:

SK210
-change WP5 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"

SK211
-add WP @ "TR330" (turn required)

SK219
-add WP @ "TR271" (turn required)
-change WP16 "CirDr" --> "SK11"
-change WP17 "SK11" --> "IdylDr"

SK221
-change WP0 "CypHillP" --> "CypHillPP"

SK240
-relocate WP1 "CanAccRd" south by 260 m
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on January 04, 2019, 07:29:29 pm
My notes for routes 102 through 271:

SK210
-change WP5 "SK22/35" --> "SK35"

In my local copy.

Quote
SK211
-add WP @ "TR330" (turn required)

I'm guessing you're referring to the unsigned road east of Blackstrap Lake, continuing straight after the paved road turns south to the provincial park. There is another turn on the other side of the lake, where SK 211 turns south and the road continuing east takes you to Shields (which is how it's marked). I've relabeled that previously hidden point Shi, though it might be TR331_E based on where it fits in the grid.

Quote
SK219
-add WP @ "TR271" (turn required)
-change WP16 "CirDr" --> "SK11"
-change WP17 "SK11" --> "IdylDr"

First change in my local copy. The other two don't match where the HB routes SK 11 through Saskatoon, an open issue to be revisited before activation.

Quote
SK221
-change WP0 "CypHillP" --> "CypHillPP"

The current label for "Cypress Hills Interprovincial Park" (shared with Alberta province) is correct. (A bit awkward that many fonts, including the one used by this forum, make it hard to distinguish between lower-case "l" and capital "I".)

Quote
SK240
-relocate WP1 "CanAccRd" south by 260 m

In my local copy.

EDIT: Changes for SK 210 through SK 240 in the HB.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 17, 2019, 09:09:33 am
Some drone video on the Regina Bypass project (https://youtu.be/6poCn_4Evvc) indicates a 3.8-mile part of the west leg of the Regina Bypass (from TCH 1 to Rotary Avenue) is partially open to traffic, and signed as part of SK 11 (see video at 7:05). That and some less clear parts of the video suggest that SK 11 will end up as a lollipop-shaped route, curling south of Regina including part of the to-be-bypassed part of TCH 1, then continuing north on the west bypass leg to intersect itself north of Regina. I'll hold off on adding the new segment to the HB, until the next drone video or other info confirms the above, by which time more new roadway might be open.

OSM not only shows that segment as open, but also that it and other open parts of the Bypass have been assigned exit numbers (east to west, for the Bypass segments on or to be added to TCH 1). Saskatchewan hasn't done exit numbers up to now, and the various drone videos on the Regina Bypass site don't show any either. I'll believe that when I see it. The guide sign plan julmac mentions in the following post makes provision for the addition of exit numbers at some point, but apparently not yet.

The project website has a target completion date for the entire project of October 31, 2019. Hopefully that will happen before next winter's snows.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on March 24, 2019, 12:33:26 am
Some drone video on the Regina Bypass project (https://youtu.be/6poCn_4Evvc) indicates a 3.8-mile part of the west leg of the Regina Bypass (from TCH 1 to Rotary Avenue) is partially open to traffic, and signed as part of SK 11 (see video at 7:05). That and some less clear parts of the video suggest that SK 11 will end up as a lollipop-shaped route, curling south of Regina including part of the to-be-bypassed part of TCH 1, then continuing north on the west bypass leg to intersect itself north of Regina. I'll hold off on adding the new segment to the HB, until the next drone video or other info confirms the above, by which time more new roadway might be open.

OSM not only shows that segment as open, but also that it and other open parts of the Bypass have been assigned exit numbers (east to west, for the Bypass segments on or to be added to TCH 1). Saskatchewan hasn't done exit numbers up to now, and the various drone videos on the Regina Bypass site don't show any either. I'll believe that when I see it.

The project website has a target completion date for the entire project of October 31, 2019. Hopefully that will happen before next winter's snows.

Not quite; according to the guide sign plan the west leg will be SK11 and the south leg will be TC 1, leaving the existing "bypassed" sections of those routes unnumbered, at least in the "inbound" directions. I found the guide sign plan for the full bypass here:https://tinyurl.com/y47dwnbn (https://tinyurl.com/y47dwnbn).

Presumably, no changes will be made to the "outbound" directions (existing signs for TC 1 and SK 11 will remain), which will be odd (two Highway 11s ?). If this is the case I suggest that those bypassed sections be retained in the highway browser within the cannf system.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on March 24, 2019, 12:44:15 am
My notes for routes 301 through 350:

SK303
-add WP @ "SK675_N"
-change WP5 "SK675" --> "SK675_S"

SK310
-change WP0 "SK10/22" -->"SK10"
-change SP15 to WP (main access to West Bend)
-add WPs @ South Railway Ave (Foam Lake) - turns required

SK312
-add WP @ "RR54" (south of Waldheim) for improved shaping

SK321
-change WP1 "MuhAve" --> "SK635_S"
-change WP2 "SK635" --> "SK635_N"

SK335
-add WP @ Zenon Park Access Road

SK343
-add WP @ "RR162" (turn required)
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 24, 2019, 02:23:43 pm
My notes for routes 301 through 350:

SK321
-change WP1 "MuhAve" --> "SK635_S"
-change WP2 "SK635" --> "SK635_N"

MapArt 2008 supports these suggestions, but the most recent provincial and SARM maps support leaving the SK635 point as is. GMSV of SK 321 doesn't help one way or the other, but of SK 371 it suggests SK 635 goes south from the SK635 point on SK 321 (to the SK 635_N point on SK 371), rather than from the MuhAve point. So I'm leaving this alone.

Quote
SK335
-add WP @ Zenon Park Access Road

Since GMSV has no coverage up there, and none of our online maps identify the road (MapArt 2008 shows it, at least), I'm guessing the access road is the one heading due north from Zenon Park, just west of the Arborfield RM boundary, and about exactly equidistant from SK 691 and SK 23. That's where I added the new ZenParkRd waypoint in my local copy.

All the other changes look good. They're in my local files, and I'll pull them in later (maybe wait for your comments on the remaining routes 354-397).
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 29, 2019, 07:16:54 pm
Also, when I add the above changes to the HB (my Internet connection is pretty flaky right around now), I'll include a route file for the new Regina Bypass leg of SK 11 west of Regina, between TCH 1 and the Rotary Ave. interchange. That segment will be separate from the rest of SK 11 for now, but they will be combined when the Bypass is completed.

At some point, I'll need to check on what happens to the existing SK 11 on the east side of Regina. I'll leave that alone for now.

Also, the west endpoint of SK 33 will be relabeled SK1/6. After completion of the Bypass, SK 33's west endpoint will become SK6, with the RegByp point becoming SK1.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on March 31, 2019, 06:54:39 pm
My notes for routes 301 through 350:

SK321
-change WP1 "MuhAve" --> "SK635_S"
-change WP2 "SK635" --> "SK635_N"

MapArt 2008 supports these suggestions, but the most recent provincial and SARM maps support leaving the SK635 point as is. GMSV of SK 321 doesn't help one way or the other, but of SK 371 it suggests SK 635 goes south from the SK635 point on SK 321 (to the SK 635_N point on SK 371), rather than from the MuhAve point. So I'm leaving this alone.

These GMSV images on SK371 seem to support the route of SK635 heading north to Burstall:
https://goo.gl/maps/1JHn8dDBiP62
https://goo.gl/maps/9wokULNk3t52

But as long as there is a WP, I'm not so worried about it.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on March 31, 2019, 10:01:28 pm
Thanx. BTW, the changes mentioned above are now in the HB, including the one on SK 33 that broke both of our list files. That was an instance where list files had to be broken at some point, and better now than after cansk is activated.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: julmac on April 06, 2019, 08:54:54 pm
My notes for routes 354 through 397:

SK354
- truncate to WP4 "RaiAve" (not signed as SK354 along Railway Ave)

SK365
-change WP4 "SK761" --> "TR322"

SK371 (with SK321 changes)
-change WP2 "TR174" --> "SK635_N"
-change WP3 "SK635_N" --> "RR282"

SK376
-move WP3 "RaiAve" a bit further north to "RR113" (turn point)

SK377
-move WP2 "PetAve" east to "HelAve" (Peterson Ave is a lane at this point and Healy Ave is a better shaping point)

SK379
-add WP @ Schoenfeld Access Road
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on April 07, 2019, 05:42:25 pm
My notes for routes 354 through 397:

SK354
- truncate to WP4 "RaiAve" (not signed as SK354 along Railway Ave)

The 2016 provincial traffic volumes report (http://publications.gov.sk.ca/details.cfm?p=88241) shows the north end of that route at Churchill St. in Dilke, where the HB has it now.

Quote
SK365
-change WP4 "SK761" --> "TR322"

The latest official provincial road map, and SARM's latest map, indicates SK 761 intersects SK 365 there. (Online mapping is inconsistent.) Moreover, I had to detour there around a closed crossing of Little Manitou Lake sometime in the last five years. My notes show the detour route turned east on SK 761 from SK 365, then swung south on SK 668 to Watrous.

Quote
SK371 (with SK321 changes)
-change WP2 "TR174" --> "SK635_N"
-change WP3 "SK635_N" --> "RR282"
I'm leaving these alone, for the same reasons I left SK 321 alone.

Quote
SK376
-move WP3 "RaiAve" a bit further north to "RR113" (turn point)

My only problem with that is that RaiAve was my turn point, into Arelee to search for the rural municipality office (which I found, only it was closed for several weeks on a summer break). So either I add an RR113 point only 0.02 mi. north of the RaiAve point (which would trigger a PITA near-miss point log entry), or I replace RaiAve with RR113 in my list file and claim a little more mileage than I actually traveled. Or I replace RaiAve in the route file with 1stAve 0.09 mi. to the south, and use that in my list file, since I prefer to claim too little mileage than too much.

I've done the last option in my local copy. I also added a waypoint between SK 40 and SK 324, to fix a visible distance issue.

Quote
SK377
-move WP2 "PetAve" east to "HelAve" (Peterson Ave is a lane at this point and Healy Ave is a better shaping point)
I instead replaced PetAve with two points, RaiAve to the east (where the highway turns southeast), and RR184 to the west for a visible distance issue.

Quote
SK379
-add WP @ Schoenfeld Access Road

In my local copy.

EDIT:  Updates for SK 376, SK 377, and SK 379 now in the HB.

===

I think this completes your review -- thank you very much for your detailed and helpful comments!

The next question is what else we need to do before activating cansk, aside from technical stuff such as my clearing items from the Datacheck log. My guess is the most important and perhaps only item is to nail down the routing of SK 11 in the Saskatoon area, where the signage is seriously inconsistent, the shapefiles are inconsistent as well, and the traffic volumes report seems confusing within Saskatoon city limits. Maybe both see what the latest shapefile says, and talk to somebody in the infrastructure ministry who can explain what the heck is going on with SK 11 in Saskatoon (and maybe also give us a preview of how the Regina Bypass will affect SK 11 on the east side of Regina).

I don't think we need to wait for completion of the Regina Bypass this fall (I hope). That will change an already-active TCH route, as well as several cansk routes, but these should all be manageable changes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: mapmikey on April 07, 2019, 07:32:33 pm
My notes for routes 354 through 397:

SK354
- truncate to WP4 "RaiAve" (not signed as SK354 along Railway Ave)

The 2016 provincial traffic volumes report (http://publications.gov.sk.ca/details.cfm?p=88241) shows the north end of that route at Churchill St. in Dilke, where the HB has it now.



Interestingly, it appears the posted endpoint of SK 354 appears to have been at the 354/732/733 jct a little east of town for many years...here is GMSV of an ancient posting with left arrow only for 354: https://goo.gl/maps/mzB3RM4bufp
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on April 07, 2019, 08:30:59 pm
Interestingly, it appears the posted endpoint of SK 354 appears to have been at the 354/732/733 jct a little east of town for many years...here is GMSV of an ancient posting with left arrow only for 354: https://goo.gl/maps/mzB3RM4bufp

The GMSV is 2013, but the SK 354 route marker style is really old. I spotted a similar marker on SK 47 in downtown Estevan, but nowhere else in the province. While I've never been on SK 354, I have been on more than half of the SK primary network.

Saskatchewan's route signage is OK (I've seen better, and often seen much worse), but I think the traffic volumes report is more authoritative in this instance.

EDIT: Shapefile data, reported by yakra upthread, also places SK 354's north end at Railway Ave.@Churchill St. in Dilke.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on May 11, 2019, 06:47:24 pm
@yakra: Since you last discussed upthread what the shapefiles (version 9.0) said about SK 11 and other highways in and through Saskatoon, back in December 2017, is there a later edition of the shapefiles, and when you have a chance could you please take a look at what they're now saying? The last time we looked at this, various different shapefile versions differed on SK 11's routing though the Saskatoon area. Before I contact the highways ministry, it would help if I could get the latest on this.

Thanks!
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on May 11, 2019, 10:37:11 pm
GeoBase/GeoGratis still has (http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan_rncan/vector/geobase_nrn_rrn/sk/) files dated 2017-06-05, same as the 9.0 files I have on disk.
Elsewhere, I found Saskatchewan Upgraded Road Network (SURN) (https://www.isc.ca/MapsandPhotos/GISData/Pages/SaskatchewanUpgradedRoadNetwork%28SURN%29.aspx) shapefiles, dated 2018-05-22.
Not the same as the GeoBase/GeoGratis files, though not dissimilar (both probably based on the same underlying data):
  • Many of the same database attributes in the DBF file, in slightly rearranged order, some spelled slightly differently. Some new attributes; some attributes missing.
  • Different Coordinate Reference System.
RTNUMBER1 for SK11 & SK16 are the same as in the 9.0 files:
  • TCH16 on the eastern leg of Circle Dr, as the HB has it now.
  • SK11 on the SW leg & Idylwyld, as the HB has it now.
  • Circle Dr has no RTNUMBER1 west of SK11 / Idylwyld.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on June 07, 2019, 08:22:09 pm
Finally heard back from SK's Highways and Infrastructure ministry. Bottom line is it's inclined to (a) disbelieve the shapefiles, (b) go with the signage installed by the city of Saskatoon (which maintains and controls most highways within its city limits, including the Circle Drive beltway), and (c) put SK 11 concurrent with TCH/SK 16 on the northeast quadrant of Circle Dr., as best-supported by signage, as well as the most direct connection between the province-maintained parts of SK 11 north and south of the city, and of TCH/SK 16 west and east of the city.

I plan to check in with the Saskatoon city government, to get its take on that and other routes we now have within Circle Dr., before making any changes in the Saskatoon area. Once that happens, I'll report back in more detail on what I would do with Saskatoon, which is the main loose end to be tied up before activating cansk.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on July 23, 2019, 12:46:25 am
Finally also heard back from the Saskatoon city government. Its takes:

-- The consistent signage for both SK 11 and TCH 16 on at least the freeway segments of the Circle Drive beltway, including the parts west of downtown included in the HB only in the in-dev cannf system, is not a sign goof, but rather reflects the city's view that all of Circle Drive is part of both route 11 and route 16.

-- Provincial-spec route signage within Circle Drive for routes 5, 7, 11 and 16 (on Idylwild Drive/Freeway through downtown), 14, and a short stub of 219 is not remnant signage from before Circle Drive was completed, but rather is current signage maintained by the city as needed, and reflects the city's view that those routes within Circle Drive are for real.

My tentative proposal, to try to deal with the Saskatoon clusterfork, and clear the way for finalizing and activating cansk:

-- Move the main SK 11 route off Idylwild Dr./Fwy and Circle Drive's southeast quadrant, onto the northeast quadrant concurrent with TCH 16.

-- Add two SK 11 branch routes, one (SK 11 Circle Drive) including the part of Circle Drive not already included in TCH 16. and the other (SK 11 Idylwild) including Idylwild Dr./Fwy within Circle Drive. These branch routes would consist entirely of city-maintained and designated highways. @yakra, this resembles some city-maintained extensions of Alberta provincial highways, which we've included in canab -- your thoughts?

-- Keep TCH 16 as is, including only the northeast quadrant of Circle Dr., and not adding new branches concurrent with SK 11 Circle Drive and SK 11 Idylwild even though the city signs both as TCH 16 as well as SK 11.

-- Leave SK 5, SK 14, and SK 219 as is. Extend SK 7 east to follow SK 14 into downtown Saskatoon (a useless multiplex, but best matches signage on the ground). Each of these routes would include some city-maintained streets, but consist mostly of province-maintained roads outside Saskatoon's maintenance limit.

-- Remove Circle Drive from cannf, since it would now be completely concurrent with cansk (and part with cantch) routes.

I will have more to say about this later, but in the meantime would welcome early reaction.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: yakra on July 23, 2019, 11:08:21 pm
Ow, my head...
Forgive me if this was answered above, but did you get any info from the provincial government?
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on July 24, 2019, 03:18:48 am
Ow, my head...
Forgive me if this was answered above, but did you get any info from the provincial government?

Yes, that it was deferring to the Saskatoon city government on route designations for the highways within city limits. But it thought the northeast quadrant of Circle Drive for both routes 11 and 16 was most reasonable from its standpoint, as the most direct route for traffic passing through Saskatoon between the province-maintained segments of 11 north and south of the city, and 16 northwest and east of the city.

An "Imagine Idylwild" urban planning consultant report notes that part of Idylwild Dr. is already off-limits to heavy trucks, and suggests that the city might reroute all through traffic from that part of Idylwild Dr. to a parallel street several blocks to the east. That, plus existing signage on and north of Circle Drive not encouraging use of Idylwild Dr. by through travelers not visiting downtown, are reasons why I would not treat Idylwild Dr./Fwy. as part of the primary SK 11 route for inter-regional traffic, and instead would break it off into its own SK 11 segment.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: oscar on August 05, 2019, 12:10:08 pm
Ow, my head...

Yeah, also my reaction to the confusing three different officially-signed routings of SK 11 through Saskatoon.

Further comment would be welcome. I've also contacted @julmac to get his input, as peer reviewer for cansk (he also lives in western Canada, with family in Saskatchewan).

I'm in no rush to make these changes. But I would like to do them ahead of cansk activation, to give users a chance to adjust their list files accordingly. Activation might slip until the Regina Bypass is completed around the end of October, which will reroute another part of SK 11 as well as TCH 1, and require some other changes to cansk routes.
Title: Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
Post by: vdeane on August 06, 2019, 07:54:45 pm
Personally, I'd prefer consistency between SK 11 and TCH 16.

I can only ask "what the heck was Saskatoon thinking?".  Perhaps someone can take the Ancient Aliens/VDOT meme and replace it was Saskatoon.