Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: mapcat on July 27, 2016, 11:20:27 pm

Title: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: mapcat on July 27, 2016, 11:20:27 pm
Where did they go? We had some for England and Scotland, and they seem to have disappeared.
Title: Re: GB Tourist Routes
Post by: Jim on July 27, 2016, 11:59:18 pm
There's an error in the system from a recent change, and while traveling, I have only had the chance to run quick site updates and haven't investigated.  Once that error is fixed, the system will return.
Title: Re: GB Tourist Routes
Post by: si404 on July 28, 2016, 03:14:37 am
I've fixed the issue
Title: Re: GB Tourist Routes
Post by: mapcat on July 28, 2016, 07:44:25 am
Thanks!
Title: Re: GB Tourist Routes
Post by: si404 on August 01, 2016, 12:28:18 pm
Posting a few sources (almost all the others are ones I've spotted in the field, or someone else has, and then I've followed the routes on GMSV to see if they are signed).

England

Northern Ireland

Scotland

Wales

Crown Dependencies
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on August 15, 2018, 02:29:37 am
I've renamed the thread because the system was renamed (and it's currently commented due to some errors).

So, what's the condition for routes?
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: si404 on August 18, 2018, 12:11:43 pm
Signed, preferably in brown (though special symbols like the Wild Atlantic Way's \/\/\/\/ (WAW) waves would count), seems reasonable.

I'm likely going to purge the one-way tours (eg Kent and Sperrins), little forest drives along tracks, and connect-the-dots circles (eg Black-and-White tour, which links villages with black-and-white houses). But at the moment, I'm leaving them in until I've made sure they are well documented elsewhere.

I'll leave it to you whether the lower Saxony Asparagus route (https://www.niedersaechsische-spargelstrasse.de/der-verein/mitglieder/) is a valid entrant - it's a circular connect-the-dots style theme route, but it's also one of those Ferienstraße (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferienstra%C3%9Fe)  that have some official status like Scotland's National Tourist Routes, or Norway's, etc.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on August 18, 2018, 02:03:19 pm
I don't wanna add anything from German-speaking countries just because GSV is not published. I have no evidence that they are signed and I really don't know the correct routing. I tried to find info about exact routing of Austria "Erlebnisstraßen" 2 years ago but couldn't find reliable data... Most German routes (there are a lot!) are concurrent with routes which are already in HB.

I'd still love to add Alps passes or Felbertauern Straße (http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=436) but they are not signed in brown or anything similar.

The poll recently got another vote and adding eurap+eursor is no.1 now. I really don't know.....
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: panda80 on September 20, 2018, 03:32:32 am
The scenic routes seem to have again disappeared. A good place to start if you want to map the routes for DACH can be https://www.ferienstrassen.info. Even if for Germany a big chunk of the routes are already mappable (B or St/L roads) there are still some stretches over some kreis roads, which are not going to be in the system anytime soon.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: Jim on September 20, 2018, 08:03:31 am
Some errors were introduced into that system and I didn't have time last night to track them down and fix them, so I temporarily removed that system from to be able to get a site update to run to completion.  They'll be back on the next site update after fixes are made.
Title: Isle of Man: imn.ttcir endpoints
Post by: yakra on October 27, 2018, 02:37:56 am
Start and Finish aren't proper endpoint labels. Words of 5+ letters get truncated to 3 letters, but beyond that, WEnd & EEnd would probably be preferred per the manual.

Weird case here -- why the begin/end where there's no actual road junction?

Edit: Full region name for non-North American regions
Title: Re: Isle of Man: imn.ttcir endpoints
Post by: michih on October 27, 2018, 02:45:50 am
It seems to work but I fully agree that it's not according to "our (inofficial) rules" and I don't like it (the latter doesn't mean that it's forbidden).

btw: eurtr is a preview system. Should be merged with http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=367
Title: Re: Isle of Man: imn.ttcir endpoints
Post by: si404 on October 27, 2018, 04:16:05 am
Weird case here -- why the begin/end where there's no actual road junction?
Because there's big grandstand, markings and all that there making clear that its the start/end of a lap - having the route begin/end anywhere else would be silly.

Yes the non-standard labels are not ideal, but 'WEnd' and 'EEnd' for two points in the same place on a one-way circular route seems dumb, especially as one direction is explicitly a beginning.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: yakra on October 27, 2018, 05:01:52 am
Quote
Because there's big grandstand, markings and all that there making clear that its the start/end of a lap - having the route begin/end anywhere else would be silly.
Figured it was something about like that. :D Here's one in my backyard. (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5723312,-70.2470044,3a,33.7y,133.44h,79.39t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1shC_oetAgCmROtzmXFBPO1Q!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DhC_oetAgCmROtzmXFBPO1Q%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D142.48991%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100)

Quote
Yes the non-standard labels are not ideal, but 'WEnd' and 'EEnd' for two points in the same place on a one-way circular route seems dumb, especially as one direction is explicitly a beginning.
Foo_W & Foo_E, or Foo_S & Foo_N, follow in the tradition of naming duplicate endpoints on circular routes... case study: TX TXLp8 (http://travelmapping.net/hb/?units=miles&u=yakra&r=tx.lp008). Picture the route as a loop of string, that you unroll & straighten out, keeping the opposite point on the loop in place. Voici your S & N, or W & E ends. From there, I just went to the manual's guidance on non-intersection endpoints: search "In the rarer case of this situation applying to both ends of a highway"...
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: si404 on October 27, 2018, 08:12:36 am
I've gone with Gra_W and Gra_E (Gra for Grandstand)
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: yakra on October 27, 2018, 01:28:12 pm
Righto, I'll settle for that. :)
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: panda80 on November 15, 2018, 04:13:09 am
Deutsche Alpenstrasse would be a good candidate to have here. It's signed all the way with brown signs and it's pretty well known. It also goes over some roads that are not clinchable now so it will be nice to have.

https://www.deutsche-alpenstrasse.de/en/home
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on November 15, 2018, 02:07:05 pm
@panda: I've already drafted GTS (Grand Tour of Switzerland) and tried to find out more info about routes from https://www.ferienstrassen.info/. In general, all routes should be signed and I think that most are really signed well, minimum the routes I travel on occasion. There are some routes quite close to my home and they are all with brown signs. There seem to be some exceptions with non-brown signs. I travel the "Route of indulgence" (https://mapservices.eu/nefos_app/frontend/page/ferienstrassen/de?type=2039#resourceDetail,9492865) almost daily and this route is NOT signed AFAIK.
(https://mapservices.eu/nefos/site-files/17/uploads/thumbnail/rdg-logo-hellergrund_kopie.jpg)

I cannot check GSV because it's not available in Germany. That the closest route to my home is not signed makes me struggling. Should I really trust the source and add all routes?

In addition, some routes have short branches (1..2km) to villages next to the main route. Should I also add them?
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: panda80 on November 16, 2018, 03:49:34 am
@panda: I've already drafted GTS (Grand Tour of Switzerland) and tried to find out more info about routes from https://www.ferienstrassen.info/. In general, all routes should be signed and I think that most are really signed well, minimum the routes I travel on occasion. There are some routes quite close to my home and they are all with brown signs. There seem to be some exceptions with non-brown signs. I travel the "Route of indulgence" (https://mapservices.eu/nefos_app/frontend/page/ferienstrassen/de?type=2039#resourceDetail,9492865) almost daily and this route is NOT signed AFAIK.
(https://mapservices.eu/nefos/site-files/17/uploads/thumbnail/rdg-logo-hellergrund_kopie.jpg)

I cannot check GSV because it's not available in Germany. That the closest route to my home is not signed makes me struggling. Should I really trust the source and add all routes?

In addition, some routes have short branches (1..2km) to villages next to the main route. Should I also add them?

Don't know what to say...I would maybe add the most known routes, which have already some tradition, first? For Germany it would be Alpenstrasse, Alleenstraße, Romantische Straße, Glasstraße. I would also add branches, and name them after the main location where the branch goes.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: si404 on November 16, 2018, 06:34:10 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_route <- Danish equivalent to the Grand Tour of Switzerland route, signed with Marguerite flowers (wiki link given as it links to several sources).

When it comes to branches, the Wild Atlantic Way has theoretically tons, but without recent GMSV, I cannot tell how well signed they are. With the absorbed tourist routes still signed, AFAICS, the major branches are covered.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on November 16, 2018, 03:51:03 pm
Don't know what to say...I would maybe add the most known routes, which have already some tradition, first? For Germany it would be Alpenstrasse, Alleenstraße, Romantische Straße, Glasstraße. I would also add branches, and name them after the main location where the branch goes.

I wanna activate the German tier 5 systems first to minimize trouble with concurrent (tourist) routes when tweaking waypoints et cetera. Afterwards I'll think about it. Reviewing (own) systems is pain in the a** and I need to draft anything parallel. That means, Romania first :) It might take another year...
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on February 03, 2019, 11:04:19 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_route <- Danish equivalent to the Grand Tour of Switzerland route

Added: http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?sys=eurtr&rg=DNK (2,500mi; 4,000km)
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: si404 on May 04, 2019, 10:05:59 am
Finnish National Routes:
http://www.rantatie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Suomen-matkailutiet-kartalla.pdf

I don't know if Norwegian, Swedish and Russian sections of the Blue Road are signed (tbh, the NOR/SWE bit is just Rv/E12). But the Norwegian and Swedish sections of the Northern Lights Route are, so I added those.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on May 14, 2019, 11:04:09 am
I've drafted two German routes in Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria:
Romantische Straße (RomStr) - Romantic Route - source (https://www.dreamango.com/de/tour/touristische-strassen/romantische-strasse-von-wuerzburg-bis-fuessen/1551165/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=embed&utm_campaign=embed-plugin-referral&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ferienstrassen.info%2F#dm=1)
Weinstraße Taubertal (WeinStrTau) - Wine Route River Tauber Valley - source (https://www.dreamango.com/de/tour/touristische-strassen/weinstrasse-taubertal/16364854/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=embed&utm_campaign=embed-plugin-referral&utm_term=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ferienstrassen.info%2F#dm=1) - should be in HB with next site update

I've renamed all wps of existing routes from other systems for district and local roads to RomStr where RomStr intersects them like I did for MR in Denmark which is fine.
However, WeinStrTau is partially concurrent to RomStr and I would need to rename RomStr to RomStr/WeinStrTau to be consistent. Many German tourist routes are partially concurrent to each other. This policy would be insane...

Should I keep district and local road names? Any thoughts?


I've added "important" branches but not every tiny one especially when it's concurrent to routes already in HB. Objections?
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on May 14, 2019, 02:37:37 pm
Bertha Benz Momorial Route added - route of the first car road trip ever! :)

(https://img.oastatic.com/img2/34876596/-x267s/t.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertha_Benz_Memorial_Route
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: si404 on May 15, 2019, 08:34:32 am
I've renamed all wps of existing routes from other systems for district and local roads to RomStr where RomStr intersects them like I did for MR in Denmark which is fine.
However, WeinStrTau is partially concurrent to RomStr and I would need to rename RomStr to RomStr/WeinStrTau to be consistent. Many German tourist routes are partially concurrent to each other. This policy would be insane...

Should I keep district and local road names? Any thoughts?
I generally have kept local names, but I can see why you have taken your approach. I'd suggest keeping stuff simple - just give one name. This is consistent with policy on numbered routes where we don't give all of them if we have two already, due to making the labels too long - and, as RomStr is as long as I-80/90 or whatever, just having the 1 named road makes sense.

Plus there's a rule about <roadname>/<roadname> labels - eg when a route turns from 2nd Street to 11th Avenue with both continuing, the label is <either road name>_<relevant direction>.
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: yakra on May 15, 2019, 11:04:13 am
I agree with Si -- Just one roadname in the label, no slash.

Quote
Should I keep district and local road names? Any thoughts?
I know that in North American tourist/scenic systems, such as usaush or cannsf, local road names were used instead of "highway names" -- E.G., MainSt_Wea instead of US66His_E. Not to say this means you have to do things any one particular way in Europe; this is just how things were done in one place...
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: michih on May 15, 2019, 02:09:26 pm
Thanks :) I think I'll keep "local names" and only use TSR names in Germany if there is no other appropriate label name. Not sure whether I wanna undone RomStr route name changes.....
Title: Re: Europe select Tourist and Scenic Routes (eurtr)
Post by: panda80 on May 29, 2019, 01:59:54 am
I would need a WP on Romantische Straße, in Scheuring, at the intersection with Landsberger Straße. Thank you.