Author Topic: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)  (Read 2474 times)

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Offline michih

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Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« on: July 26, 2017, 01:17:18 pm »
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=beln

I've finally managed to finish the painful way through Belgian national roads :)
It's an European tier 4 system - which are usually drawn "lightsalmon" on our maps - but it's a quite dense network managed by provinces. It is similar to Dutch nldp or German deul tier 5 systems which are drawn in "yellow". I also use "yellow" for beln now.

It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file.

I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.

Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...

I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file?

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2018, 08:53:10 am »
starting at the bottom and working my way up (because I want to punch through the short dull routes to begin with)

N900s:

general - because Belgians are weird on top of terrible at signing roads, where you have A4, etc as labels, you might want to consider E411, etc as they are more consistently signed, especially on side roads. I really don't think it matters, but it's something that's there.

N983 - RueMu -> RouMou
N975 - RueSaiSang is RueFortJaco on all mapping sources; is N98 not N/S rather than E/W?
N971 - RueChe -> RueFal
N937 - PontMarGray is off
N913 - N5_Bie points should be N and S, not W and E

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 12:17:20 pm »
800s

N820 - add a point at RueTro to shape the route better
N821 - Mont -> War? (village you are in, rather than far off village)
N833 - RuMar -> RouMar
N859 - Mar -> RueBiz
N865 - add point at RueMou for Cugnon; N816 is north-south
N882 - RueFla -> RuePla
N883 - N81 -> N81_S

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 12:47:42 pm »
It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file.

I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.

Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...

I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file?

I think I should add all routes - signed and unsigned.

There are some unsigned Interstates that are included due to being part of the system. Maybe do the same here?

Yes, unsigned E roads are included in countries that don't sign them at all (eg the UK).

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 06:52:57 am »
700s

general point - obviously, there's unsigned roads that don't have a point but will when you add them, or have a point that is labelled with a street name, so I've ignored that factor as an issue.

another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?

N700 - surely meets E313?
N719 - GSJ at the railway crossing (MuiStr); KooLaan -> EdwStaStr
N739 - MetSt -> SchStr
N742 - extends to N75?
N748 - heads south of N73?

all other routes fine

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 04:40:29 am »
another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?

I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 07:58:33 am »
I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.
I don't think different - it was something that occurred to me as I'd see 'A2' labels on a road shown on OSM as E313. I've no real preference either way.

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2018, 02:28:55 pm »
N742 - extends to N75?

N75 GSV July 2017 shows that the road is closed. It was still opened in November 2010 but unsigned. N742 is not signed west of N78 according to GSV from July 2017.

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2019, 01:01:55 pm »
@Si, do you wanna complete the peer-review or should I add the additional routes first?

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 05:10:52 pm »
adding would be better.

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2019, 03:09:25 pm »
done

Offline dave1693

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Belgium: waypoint request for N34 at N34g in Oostende
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2019, 12:34:48 am »
Another one from the vaults of my 1978 student tour of Europe...

We crossed the English Channel from Oostende to Dover, by a ferry that has since been discontinued. I do remember the ferry dock being near the big train station, and OSM supports this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.23083/2.92411 noting the "Transeuropa Ferries-Terminal" just north of "Station Oostende".

The nearest N route to this is N34, but alas it doesn't have a waypoint nearby. N34 uses a part of Leopold III-laan to go northeast from the Vuurkruisenplein roundabout, but then makes a right angle turn onto Ernest Feysplein (Google Maps shows this a lot better, as does Esri WorldStreetMap) and Leopold III-laan continues as N34g. N34g then turns onto Natienkaai and (if I'm reading Dutch Wikipedia correctly) ends at the train station, by which I imply the turnoff for the main parking lot where Natienskaai makes a right-angle turn.

Of course none of this is signed, but given the way Belgium signs its highways (mostly it doesn't), that's hardly a surprise.

I doubt we actually want to put N34g into the HB (not that I'd mind), but would it be feasible to put a waypoint on N34 at N34g, where Leopold III-laan intersects Ernest Feysplein?

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2019, 05:46:18 am »
I've merged the topics since beln system is still in preview.

I've not added N34g route but added 'KapStr' wp to N34. I've noted in the readme.md file why I've not drafted N34g (note will be added after my next pull request):

Quote
`N34g` should exist (not being signed) according to wegenwiki (length of just 200m) and wikisara but it's not indicated on GSV nor GM and OSM seems to indicate it wrong (not from N34 to the station but from the station to the north)

I've generally added unsigned routes if they are clearly indicated on OSM. They are listed in readme.md.

Online si404

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2019, 04:46:38 am »
Is this system ready for review?

Offline michih

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Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2019, 04:50:27 am »
Of course! I've added the remaining routes last March.