Author Topic: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector  (Read 405 times)

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Offline mapcat

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NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« on: December 06, 2017, 10:48:02 pm »
As far as I can tell this is a controlled access freeway, with several lettered exits (A thru H, though C & D seem to be missing) and mileage signs similar to the ACE. It's approximately 2.1 miles long. Is it worth including in usasf? I can add it if it seems worthwhile.
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Offline yakra

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 03:11:01 pm »
Hey, why not.
Although, a nitpick: at-grade intersection @ NJ187? See below...

It appears to be secret route 446X, and is classified in the NJDOT shapefiles as ROUTE_SUBT = 4, which is used for non-Interstate freeways.
I'll grab this, and claim NJ while I'm at it; I've been meaning to do so for a while.
I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.

Interesting -- AtlBriCon exits off itself. At a left exit. The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 03:37:37 pm by yakra »

Offline mapcat

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 07:30:13 pm »
Hey, why not.
Although, a nitpick: at-grade intersection @ NJ187? See below...

It appears to be secret route 446X, and is classified in the NJDOT shapefiles as ROUTE_SUBT = 4, which is used for non-Interstate freeways.
I'll grab this, and claim NJ while I'm at it; I've been meaning to do so for a while.
I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.

Interesting -- AtlBriCon exits off itself. At a left exit. The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.

Hmmm, that's not how it's signed (MM1.6) (quasi-MM2.1)
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Offline yakra

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 02:26:15 am »
Oh boy. More TM Indigestion. Thanks NJDOT! >:(

I'll also make a couple other edits for things I noticed while checking out the HDX, shapefiles, and GMSV.
Done as a separate pull request

The roadway north to exits F-G-H is considered a ramp, per the shapefiles and SLD.
Mainline AtlBriCon intersects NJ187 & US30 at their respective AtlBriCon points.
That is, according to the  NJ_Roads_shp dataset listed on the credits page...
• N to NJ87/187: ROUTE_SUBT = 8 (ramps)
• E to US30: ROUTE_SUBT = 4 (toll hwys)
I went and downloaded New_Jersey_Road_Centerlines, found here, and it was the other way around...
• N to NJ87/187: SYMBOLTYPE = 100 (toll hwys)
• E to US30: SYMBOLTYPE = 108 (ramps)
In case of a tie, I'd look to the SLDs to be a tie-breaker. That, and I'd put a bit more stock in the shapefiles directly from NJDOT anyway.

Hmmm, that's not how it's signed (MM1.6) (quasi-MM2.1)
Less signed so much as mileposted, though I'll acknowledge the "Connector" in the shield in the first image; that's a bit troublesome...
Signed, though, I'd think of as something more like this.
The mile markers, I suppose I can't completely compare this -- mileage counting up from zero at two different places, toward a merge... it's more of a PA I-76/276 thing. There's evidence, from some of the docs & diagrams I've seen, that in some ways the whole complex may be thought of as the "connector". The exit letters, I can handwave away as just keeping the letters going where's there's actually more ramps to be lettered -- akin to those places where Exit 42 leaves the mainline, then splits into 42-A/B/C, etc.
More support that this stuff's mainline & that's stuff's ramps can be found in the ramps SLDs.

Perhaps most troublesome are the mile markers posted on the ramps, which mapcat linked above, while none are posted on (what I'm convinced is) the mainline.
That's some evidence tipping the scales in the one direction, but IMO there's a bit more evidence to tip scales overall in the opposite direction. Thoughs?

Code: [Select]
AtlCityExpy http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.362495&lon=-74.440752
A http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.361801&lon=-74.442254
B http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.365467&lon=-74.444218
D http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.374740&lon=-74.441981
E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373902&lon=-74.438092
F http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.373844&lon=-74.435753
NJ187 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.372227&lon=-74.432413
US30 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.370743&lon=-74.430785
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 11:58:57 pm by yakra »

Offline mapcat

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 02:19:32 pm »
I see your points...not a simple one, certainly. Your file makes sense.
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Offline yakra

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 06:19:05 pm »
I wish things would be simpler than they are a lot of the time. :(
No one else has weighed in here yet... Shall I go ahead & add the route above?

Offline Duke87

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 09:10:40 pm »
My preference would be to route it as signed rather than according to the NJDOT shapefiles. Consider not just those milemarkers but the matter of what is signed as an exit versus what isn't. Someone attempting to clinch the road based purely on what they see while driving will follow the roadway towards exits G/H.

I will also note that although it has a secret route number and is present in the shapefiles the road is not maintained by NJDOT - it, like the Atlantic City Expressway proper, is maintained by SJTA. The discrepancy between signage and shapefile is likely the result of the two different agencies having different interpretations as to what the mainline is.

Offline yakra

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Re: NJ: Atlantic City Expressway Connector
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 01:31:46 am »
And dangit if you don't make a good argument there too...

Stupid Truck Routes...