Author Topic: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)  (Read 11049 times)

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Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2019, 08:22:09 pm »
Finally heard back from SK's Highways and Infrastructure ministry. Bottom line is it's inclined to (a) disbelieve the shapefiles, (b) go with the signage installed by the city of Saskatoon (which maintains and controls most highways within its city limits, including the Circle Drive beltway), and (c) put SK 11 concurrent with TCH/SK 16 on the northeast quadrant of Circle Dr., as best-supported by signage, as well as the most direct connection between the province-maintained parts of SK 11 north and south of the city, and of TCH/SK 16 west and east of the city.

I plan to check in with the Saskatoon city government, to get its take on that and other routes we now have within Circle Dr., before making any changes in the Saskatoon area. Once that happens, I'll report back in more detail on what I would do with Saskatoon, which is the main loose end to be tied up before activating cansk.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 12:09:48 am by oscar »

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2019, 12:46:25 am »
Finally also heard back from the Saskatoon city government. Its takes:

-- The consistent signage for both SK 11 and TCH 16 on at least the freeway segments of the Circle Drive beltway, including the parts west of downtown included in the HB only in the in-dev cannf system, is not a sign goof, but rather reflects the city's view that all of Circle Drive is part of both route 11 and route 16.

-- Provincial-spec route signage within Circle Drive for routes 5, 7, 11 and 16 (on Idylwild Drive/Freeway through downtown), 14, and a short stub of 219 is not remnant signage from before Circle Drive was completed, but rather is current signage maintained by the city as needed, and reflects the city's view that those routes within Circle Drive are for real.

My tentative proposal, to try to deal with the Saskatoon clusterfork, and clear the way for finalizing and activating cansk:

-- Move the main SK 11 route off Idylwild Dr./Fwy and Circle Drive's southeast quadrant, onto the northeast quadrant concurrent with TCH 16.

-- Add two SK 11 branch routes, one (SK 11 Circle Drive) including the part of Circle Drive not already included in TCH 16. and the other (SK 11 Idylwild) including Idylwild Dr./Fwy within Circle Drive. These branch routes would consist entirely of city-maintained and designated highways. @yakra, this resembles some city-maintained extensions of Alberta provincial highways, which we've included in canab -- your thoughts?

-- Keep TCH 16 as is, including only the northeast quadrant of Circle Dr., and not adding new branches concurrent with SK 11 Circle Drive and SK 11 Idylwild even though the city signs both as TCH 16 as well as SK 11.

-- Leave SK 5, SK 14, and SK 219 as is. Extend SK 7 east to follow SK 14 into downtown Saskatoon (a useless multiplex, but best matches signage on the ground). Each of these routes would include some city-maintained streets, but consist mostly of province-maintained roads outside Saskatoon's maintenance limit.

-- Remove Circle Drive from cannf, since it would now be completely concurrent with cansk (and part with cantch) routes.

I will have more to say about this later, but in the meantime would welcome early reaction.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:45:56 am by oscar »

Offline yakra

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2019, 11:08:21 pm »
Ow, my head...
Forgive me if this was answered above, but did you get any info from the provincial government?

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #108 on: July 24, 2019, 03:18:48 am »
Ow, my head...
Forgive me if this was answered above, but did you get any info from the provincial government?

Yes, that it was deferring to the Saskatoon city government on route designations for the highways within city limits. But it thought the northeast quadrant of Circle Drive for both routes 11 and 16 was most reasonable from its standpoint, as the most direct route for traffic passing through Saskatoon between the province-maintained segments of 11 north and south of the city, and 16 northwest and east of the city.

An "Imagine Idylwild" urban planning consultant report notes that part of Idylwild Dr. is already off-limits to heavy trucks, and suggests that the city might reroute all through traffic from that part of Idylwild Dr. to a parallel street several blocks to the east. That, plus existing signage on and north of Circle Drive not encouraging use of Idylwild Dr. by through travelers not visiting downtown, are reasons why I would not treat Idylwild Dr./Fwy. as part of the primary SK 11 route for inter-regional traffic, and instead would break it off into its own SK 11 segment.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 05:31:34 pm by oscar »

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2019, 12:10:08 pm »
Ow, my head...

Yeah, also my reaction to the confusing three different officially-signed routings of SK 11 through Saskatoon.

Further comment would be welcome. I've also contacted @julmac to get his input, as peer reviewer for cansk (he also lives in western Canada, with family in Saskatchewan).

I'm in no rush to make these changes. But I would like to do them ahead of cansk activation, to give users a chance to adjust their list files accordingly. Activation might slip until the Regina Bypass is completed around the end of October, which will reroute another part of SK 11 as well as TCH 1, and require some other changes to cansk routes.

Offline vdeane

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #110 on: August 06, 2019, 07:54:45 pm »
Personally, I'd prefer consistency between SK 11 and TCH 16.

I can only ask "what the heck was Saskatoon thinking?".  Perhaps someone can take the Ancient Aliens/VDOT meme and replace it was Saskatoon.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline julmac

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #111 on: August 18, 2019, 04:42:40 pm »

Further comment would be welcome. I've also contacted @julmac to get his input, as peer reviewer for cansk (he also lives in western Canada, with family in Saskatchewan).

I'm in no rush to make these changes. But I would like to do them ahead of cansk activation, to give users a chance to adjust their list files accordingly. Activation might slip until the Regina Bypass is completed around the end of October, which will reroute another part of SK 11 as well as TCH 1, and require some other changes to cansk routes.

I've put together a couple of maps for Saskatoon and Regina with my take on how do deal with them in Travel Mapping:

http://julianmac.homestead.com/files/regina_hwys.jpg
http://julianmac.homestead.com/files/saskatoon_hwys.jpg

I won't describe everything in detail but here are some more important points:
  • Keep only one routing of TCH 16, on the east leg of Circle Drive. This is the historic routing and won't necessitate any changes to user logs.
  • Route SK 11 onto Circle Drive west. This is closer to the historic routing of SK 11 as it and shares the south leg of Circle Drive.
  • Mirrored branch legs of TCH 16 and SK 11 could also be added (in order to match the dual routings indicated on the signs) but this wouldn't serve any practical purpose.
  • Add "City" branches for old alignments of SK 6, SK 11, SK 7/14, and TCH 1. These routes are all well singed in the "outbound" directions.



« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:24:29 pm by julmac »

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #112 on: August 18, 2019, 05:38:30 pm »
^ Thanks! I'll be dropping out of sight for about a week of camping, but will take a closer look when I'm back home.

I e-mailed the Highways and Infrastructure ministry in Regina, about its plans to number (or not) existing SK 11 on the east side of Regina, once SK 11 is rerouted along the west leg of the Regina Bypass. No response yet, maybe no decision has been made.