Author Topic: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)  (Read 2220 times)

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Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2018, 02:11:43 pm »
I can use shapefiles to help track down those if/where cases, and their endpoints.

Let me work through the 300s, so I can give you a complete list.

Do you know if the shapefiles cover the 9xx routes? There are a few northern primary routes where there is no issue with endpoints, but they have some intermediate 9xx junctions, where the 9xx route is either poorly mapped or might've been decommissioned. GMSV coverage is weak in the north, not that it's good in the south either.

Offline yakra

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2018, 11:28:26 pm »
900 routes are covered. If there have been decommissionings, that may leave some things up in the air. Alberta's shapefiles are fairly well up-to-date, but Manitoba's are badly out of date... I can't speak for Saskatchewan.

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 04:16:37 am »
Most of the 2xx routes (park access routes) are now in the HB. The exception is the mysterious SK 204, which is in the shapefiles but I can't find on online or other maps. A few routes have unclear endpoints, though GMSV helped me nail down some others.

Still need to draft about thirty 3xx route files to complete coverage of the primary routes.

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2018, 02:06:35 am »
Notes on possibly unsigned/non-routes, for later followup. I'll also need to go back and check the shorter 2xx routes for ones that might be unsigned. GMSV is more helpful than I expected, at least in southern Saskatchewan, but its coverage is maddeningly uneven and/or sometimes dated.

SK 204 -- apparently in shapefiles, can't find

SK 383-- apparently in shapefiles, can't find

SK 375, 394, 396 -- apparently not in shapefiles, but shown in OSM/Mapnik, and to some extent in other online maps, as well as (375 and 396 only) 2008 MapArt paper atlas. All are fairly short routes, so they wouldn't necessarily show in the official road map or the online Highway Hotline.

375 is connector to Hepburn from SK 12. Fairly recent GMSV imagery indicate route is unsigned if it exists. It might exist only as continuation of SK 785 (SK 12's route file uses that as the label for the Hepburn access road).

396 is connector from TCH 16 to Guernsey and a potash plant south of town. Dated GMSV imagery suggests it is unsigned if it exists, or may be signed only as part of SK 668.

394 is on east side of Saskatoon, between SK 16 and SK 316. Unlike other two routes, it is not shown in 2008 MapArt road atlas, which means it may be a fairly new route. Like 396, it may be in the system mainly to serve a potash plant. Some GMSV imagery is too dated to be helpful, but apparently unsigned at junctions with SK 16 and SK 316 based on 2013-14 imagery. FWIW, a "stub" article in Wikipedia identifies the route as unsigned, though I don't know on what that's based.

394 and 396 are in the HB, subject to later removal. I'm more convinced that 375 should be left out of the HB, so it stays out for now.
 
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 10:04:55 pm by oscar »

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2018, 11:39:35 am »
Here is a list of issues with unclear route ends, and some intermediate waypoints. End signs exist for some routes covered by GMSV, so I haven't included those routes on this list.

SK 2 -- Intersects SK 936 near its north end, around the location shown in the HB. Google Maps shows the intersection location, and GMSV shows that intersection is with SK 936. Only Mapnik doesn't show the intersection at all. The only thing missing is open-source coordinates for the intersection.

SK 21 -- This is just a note that Mapnik appears to be following a long-bypassed old alignment, between newly-added waypoints RR233 and TR462 via Carruthers. Every other map I've consulted, including the latest official road map and the online Highway Hotline map, shows SK 21 following the route in the HB. I'm satisfied that Mapnik is simply wrong on this, no need for further followup, but it does underscore our not taking Mapnik as gospel truth.

SK 35 -- North end very unclear, with Mapnik showing it going well northeast of the endpoint shown on the provincial paper and online Highway Hotline maps. HB now truncates the route to a guesstimate of the north endpoint based on the official maps.

SK 102 -- North end within Southend unclear.

SK 106 and SK 120 -- Both routes intersect Harding Road, which may be or once have been SK 928. GMSV indicates the junction on SK 106 is unsigned; no GMSV coverage of that part of SK 120. No biggie if we have to settle for HarRd waypoints on both routes.

SK 123 -- North end really unclear. Online maps differ on where and how far the route goes north of the Saskatchewan River, including whether it passes through Pemmican Portage village or instead bypasses it to the west, and its endpoint in Cumberland House. An added complication is that the provincial Highway Hotline shows 123 following a winter road (not shown in other mapping) southeast from the Cumberland House region to SK 9 near the Manitoba border.

SK 165 -- SK 935 supposedly intersects with 165 in the Hall Lake area, but I'm unsure whether the intersection is located where the HB has it, or another intersection in the vicinity. No GMSV coverage.

SK 211 -- East end unclear.

SK 212 -- West end unclear (at road's end, or at park boundary).

SK 220 -- HB has west end east of park fee booths, but could route end at or west of booths?

SK 221 -- West end probably at park fee booths, where HB has it.

SK 240, SK 263, SK 264 -- Do routes end at Prince Albert NP boundary, or at fee booths, or continue into the park? 2009 GMSV imagery indicates 240 ends, along with its pavement, at the park boundary. I didn't see similar End signs on 263 and 264 whose pavement continues into the park, though neither did I recall seeing route markers inside the park. If the routes do not end at or near the park boundary, does SK 264 end at intersection with SK 263, or continue northwest as OSM indicates?

SK 255 -- North end in Tobin Lake unclear.

SK 261 -- GMSV confirms the route exists, and extends both west and east of SK 4, but not how far in each direction.

SK 305 -- Waypoint for what appears to be Old SK305/784_E could use a check on whether it remains an intersection with SK 784; the recent bypass of that former 305 segment is still a bit of a moving target, with a new interchange with SK 11 in progress, as well as a realignment of that part of SK 11.

SK 310 -- Is the intersection marked SK740 indeed with highway 740? (Mapnik is an outlier on that road being a numbered highway, and the provincial highway map is silent.) Ditto SK745 farther north. More perplexing, Google Maps and the provincial highway map have SK 743 intersecting at waypoint SK743?, while Mapnik and 2009 GMSV have it at waypoint EdmRd -- maybe SK 743 was moved?

SK 324 -- East end in Mayfair probably at Railway Ave. where Mapnik places endpoint, but no GMSV coverage to confirm.

SK 340 -- One intermediate waypoint is marked SK685?/781?, but number of intersecting route is unclear. 2013 GMSV imagery shows it as SK 685.

SK 354 -- North end unclear, whether it ends at SK 732/733 junction, or continues a little west along SK 733 to Railway Ave. in Dilke.

SK 378 -- Disagreement among maps about intersection with SK 686, east of Rabbit Lake. Official road map and Google Maps have it at waypoint SK686. Mapnik, 2009 GMSV, and 2008 MapArt paper atlas have it at hidden point +X123456, east of Meeting Lake (waypoint MeeLake). As with SK 21, I'm comfortable disagreeing with Mapnik, in favor of official and other maps showing a more recent routing for SK 686, no need for further followup.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 05:02:49 am by oscar »

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2018, 04:41:56 am »
Drafts of all cansk routes (1-399) are now in the HB, except for the mystery routes SK 204 and SK 383 that are in the shapefiles but I have no idea of their locations. Aside from those, I'd like to address at least some of the issues I flagged in the two preceding posts, including cleaning up the waypoints with "?" in their labels (which Datacheck doesn't like), before putting this system into preview. 

yakra, time for a dive into the shapefiles, if I can get your help on that?

Online mapmikey

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2018, 08:50:23 pm »
Drafts of all cansk routes (1-399) are now in the HB, except for the mystery routes SK 204 and SK 383 that are in the shapefiles but I have no idea of their locations. Aside from those, I'd like to address at least some of the issues I flagged in the two preceding posts, including cleaning up the waypoints with "?" in their labels (which Datacheck doesn't like), before putting this system into preview. 

yakra, time for a dive into the shapefiles, if I can get your help on that?

Here is SK 204:  https://goo.gl/maps/MnHsh5khTnQ2

Found that in this document:  http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/18/104925-Travel%20on%20Saskatchewan%20Highways%202016%20(2).pdf

SK 383 is not listed.
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2018, 12:47:23 am »
Here is SK 204:  https://goo.gl/maps/MnHsh5khTnQ2

Found that in this document:  http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/18/104925-Travel%20on%20Saskatchewan%20Highways%202016%20(2).pdf

Thanks! There's already a waypoint for the SK 4/SK 204 junction in the SK 4 route file, just need to relabel it from BatPP to SK204. Will need to nail down SK 204's west end (tentative: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.131631&lon=-108.396879, haven't yet found an end sign WB but there's an SK 204 marker EB), once I'm more awake and/or am back home from a short trip to Virginia's Eastern Shore where I am now.

The cited document seems to have answers for some of my other questions, such as the extent of SK 261 (though for some routes, Mapnik doesn't show the road or intersection at the endpoint stated in the document, so I'll still need shapefile help). I'll take a closer look later.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 08:00:36 am by oscar »

Online mapmikey

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2018, 08:26:22 am »
The EB posting here https://goo.gl/maps/yKFjRwmzTKK2 matches the distance in the travel log document
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2018, 09:37:27 am »
SK 204 route file drafted, and will be added to the HB next pull request (perhaps once we've figured out whether we need to add SK 383 as well -- though I have a hunch that's a placeholder number for the under-construction part of the Regina Bypass west of the city that won't become part of TCH 1).

Offline yakra

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2018, 06:22:20 pm »
Quote
Will need to nail down SK 204's west end (tentative: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.131631&lon=-108.396879
This matches what I see in the shapefiles.

383 appears to be an erroneous datum that snuck into the RTNUMBER1 field. This happens sometimes, such as with the similarly apocryphal Route 184 in Alberta.
In its entirety,
49056-2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.391649&lon=-105.542239
49056-1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.391541&lon=-105.542238

...it's 3rd Ave NW in Moose Jaw, between eastbound & westbound High St.
"383" in this case appears to be a typo for "363", which is shown in the shapefiles as taking a different route from 9thAve_N to SK2:
North on 9th Ave, east on High St, south on 3rd Ave, then east on Manitoba St.
Signage is a bit lacking in GMSV, but I was able to find this, this, and this (This one is a bit ambiguous). Nothing indicating the route as shown on OSM & Google.

I have yet to read thru the more detailed posts upthread.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 06:24:47 pm by yakra »

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2018, 08:00:00 pm »
The first link you had when looked at from 2009 has the arrow pointing the other way!
Clinched:
I: 4 12 16 17 20 26 27 30 59 64 66 68 72 73 ew74 77 78 79 82 83 ew84 85 ew86 e88 97 99
US: 4 6N 9W 11E 11W 13 15 19W 21 44 46 48 58 72 92 113 117 123 130 158 163 176 178 192 206 209 211 219 220 221 222 258 264 276 290 311 319 322 340 360 378 401 ew422 501 521 522 601 701
PriSystems: VA, DE

Offline yakra

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2018, 02:43:02 am »
All info is from the GeoBase NRN shapefiles, SK revision 9.0, unless otherwise noted.

Quote
SK 2 -- Intersects SK 936 near its north end, around the location shown in the HB. Google Maps shows the intersection location, and GMSV shows that intersection is with SK 936. Only Mapnik doesn't show the intersection at all. The only thing missing is open-source coordinates for the intersection.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.600699&lon=-105.834393

Quote
SK 35 -- North end very unclear, with Mapnik showing it going well northeast of the endpoint shown on the provincial paper and online Highway Hotline maps. HB now truncates the route to a guesstimate of the north endpoint based on the official maps.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.612705&lon=-103.720700

Quote
SK 102 -- North end within Southend unclear.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=56.331620&lon=-103.292101
Is this compatible with what you've seen elsewhere?

Quote
SK 106 and SK 120 -- Both routes intersect Harding Road, which may be or once have been SK 928. GMSV indicates the junction on SK 106 is unsigned; no GMSV coverage of that part of SK 120. No biggie if we have to settle for HarRd waypoints on both routes.
Shapefiles show this as SK928. If it's unsigned at SK106, then I guess HarRd should be the label.
Do we assume the whole thing's unsigned, and do likewise at SK120? I *slightly* prefer doing so...

Quote
SK 123 -- North end really unclear. Online maps differ on where and how far the route goes north of the Saskatchewan River, including whether it passes through Pemmican Portage village or instead bypasses it to the west, and its endpoint in Cumberland House. An added complication is that the provincial Highway Hotline shows 123 following a winter road (not shown in other mapping) southeast from the Cumberland House region to SK 9 near the Manitoba border.
North end at http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.921247&lon=-102.295576
Winter road unnumbered

Quote
SK 165 -- SK 935 supposedly intersects with 165 in the Hall Lake area, but I'm unsure whether the intersection is located where the HB has it, or another intersection in the vicinity. No GMSV coverage.
+X293272 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.102713&lon=-105.982290
+X814387 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.101715&lon=-105.924949
SK935 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=55.061273&lon=-105.825188
I zapped HallLakeRd above, as it's not necessary for shaping (tweaked a bit to compensate) or visible distance. That, and there are no open-source coordinates, unless you wanna interpolate between these two adjacent shapefile points. 8)

Quote
SK 211 -- East end unclear.
BlaPP http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.791274&lon=-106.417591
How about a visible shaping point at Tho?

Quote
SK 212 -- West end unclear (at road's end, or at park boundary).
Shapefiles agree with the HB.

Quote
SK 220 -- HB has west end east of park fee booths, but could route end at or west of booths?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.993774&lon=-105.179954

Quote
SK 221 -- West end probably at park fee booths, where HB has it.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.658346&lon=-109.498129

Quote
SK 240, SK 263, SK 264 -- Do routes end at Prince Albert NP boundary, or at fee booths, or continue into the park? 2009 GMSV imagery indicates 240 ends, along with its pavement, at the park boundary. I didn't see similar End signs on 263 and 264 whose pavement continues into the park, though neither did I recall seeing route markers inside the park. If the routes do not end at or near the park boundary, does SK 264 end at intersection with SK 263, or continue northwest as OSM indicates?
I've got all three ending at the park boundary:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.583520&lon=-106.293094
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.568985&lon=-106.003975
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.899730&lon=-106.004054

Quote
SK 255 -- North end in Tobin Lake unclear.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.517959&lon=-103.743430
The intersecting road here is "Lake Drive View". Yes, you read that right. Make of it what you will.

Quote
SK 261 -- GMSV confirms the route exists, and extends both west and east of SK 4, but not how far in each direction.
You nailed it.
Within tolerance, but I think a shaping point may be worthwhile just before the east end.

Quote
SK 305 -- Waypoint for what appears to be Old SK305/784_E could use a check on whether it remains an intersection with SK 784; the recent bypass of that former 305 segment is still a bit of a moving target, with a new interchange with SK 11 in progress, as well as a realignment of that part of SK 11.
Not shown as 784.

Quote
SK 310 -- Is the intersection marked SK740 indeed with highway 740? (Mapnik is an outlier on that road being a numbered highway, and the provincial highway map is silent.)
Shapefiles and GMSV both say yes.

Quote
Ditto SK745 farther north.
Shapefiles say yes.
Here's some blurry GMSV.

Quote
More perplexing, Google Maps and the provincial highway map have SK 743 intersecting at waypoint SK743?, while Mapnik and 2009 GMSV have it at waypoint EdmRd -- maybe SK 743 was moved?
Shapefiles agree with OSM, as far back as the 6.0 files, dated 2012-09-25, the oldest I have.

Quote
SK 324 -- East end in Mayfair probably at Railway Ave. where Mapnik places endpoint, but no GMSV coverage to confirm.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.983649&lon=-107.598548 though it does seem a little odd

Quote
SK 340 -- One intermediate waypoint is marked SK685?/781?, but number of intersecting route is unclear. 2013 GMSV imagery shows it as SK 685.
Shapefiles say 781. :( Call it 685?

Quote
SK 354 -- North end unclear, whether it ends at SK 732/733 junction, or continues a little west along SK 733 to Railway Ave. in Dilke.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.864853&lon=-105.250138

Quote
SK 378 -- Disagreement among maps about intersection with SK 686, east of Rabbit Lake. Official road map and Google Maps have it at waypoint SK686. Mapnik, 2009 GMSV, and 2008 MapArt paper atlas have it at hidden point +X123456, east of Meeting Lake (waypoint MeeLake). As with SK 21, I'm comfortable disagreeing with Mapnik, in favor of official and other maps showing a more recent routing for SK 686, no need for further followup.
Shapefiles have it at +x123456.

Offline 7/8

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2018, 09:11:50 am »
Draft route files for all major southern primary routes < 100, and EDIT: 1xx northern primary routes, are now in the HB. Still working on 2xx park access routes (7 of 21 already in the HB), and 3xx minor southern primary routes (19 of 50).

What about SK56 (I happened to notice that this one is missing since it's one of the few SK highways I've driven on)?

Also, thanks for the hard work on this system. Ever since my trip to SK and MB last year, I've been looking forward to this system being added.

Offline oscar

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Re: cansk: Saskatchewan Provincial Highways (1-399)
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2018, 09:50:43 am »
What about SK56 (I happened to notice that this one is missing since it's one of the few SK highways I've driven on)?

Thanks for the catch!

I'll have to double-check my csv files against the document mapmikey linked above, to look for any other routes I may have missed. That document seems to include a complete list of primary routes (1-399), as well as northern secondary routes (9xx, including some isolated fragments up to near the Northwest Territories border), though there is incomplete coverage of auxiliary routes like 10A and 41A, which are not separately inventoried or shapefiled.

BTW, that document doesn't cover the 6xx and 7xx southern secondary routes, which unlike the 9xx routes aren't province-maintained. Yet another reason for me not to take on the southern secondary routes.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 09:54:31 am by oscar »