Author Topic: River crossings  (Read 668 times)

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Offline regoarrarr

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River crossings
« on: July 23, 2018, 12:20:34 pm »
So one other thing that I "collect" are river bridge crossings.  While crossing the Mississippi River 5 times yesterday :-), I started wondering if there might be a way with the current infrastructure to support something like that?

My thought was that it could work as basically a collection of road segments.  So for example, I-72 between MO Exit 157 and IL Exit 1.  So if you've visited between those 2 points, then it would "count".  Similar to concurrencies that may already be a part of things. 

Jim suggested I post here to get community thoughts

Offline michih

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 12:24:11 pm »
Ferry crossings are similar. We thought about adding a new totally category. But roads should stay part of the road category.

We only include "signed" routes. How are your bridges signed?

Offline Jim

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 12:46:36 pm »
My initial thought (maybe 2 minutes' worth) is that one or more sort of "interesting bridges" systems could exist, likely almost completely overlapped with existing routes.

Offline michih

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 12:54:32 pm »

Offline regoarrarr

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 01:03:38 pm »
@michih well i'd be onboard for cataloging just about everything :-) I actually registered a domain way back (everywhatever.com) to do such a thing but have realized I'm never going to have time to do that.

I am only a casual member of this community so I make no judgment as to whether this is a good fit here or not.  Just thought I would throw it out there.

Offline mapcat

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 05:48:33 pm »
I'm in favor of this as long as we can develop a solid definition of "interesting" and "crossing", and stay within the realm of highways for now.
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Offline regoarrarr

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 01:59:16 pm »
@mapcat - so what about defining "interesting" for now as bridges that cross rivers of a minimum of 1000km https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length

That will keep it to highways / roads so we're not (at least for now) opening this up to every random historical covered bridge in the middle of nowhere

Wikipedia has a list of river crossings for many major rivers (of course it does)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crossings_of_the_Upper_Mississippi_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crossings_of_the_Lower_Mississippi_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crossings_of_the_Ohio_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crossings_of_the_Missouri_River

I would propose not include hiking trails, railroad bridges, ferries, pedestrian bridges and the like - keeping it to highways / major roads
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 02:24:53 pm by regoarrarr »

Offline mapcat

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 03:53:22 pm »
@mapcat - so what about defining "interesting" for now as bridges that cross rivers of a minimum of 1000km https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rivers_by_length

That will keep it to highways / roads so we're not (at least for now) opening this up to every random historical covered bridge in the middle of nowhere

Possibly, but one could make compelling arguments for crossings of the Niagara River (58 km) and the Detroit River (45 km). And then if this grew to include ferries, there are some crossing at least three of the Great Lakes.

Edit: also, by your proposed definition, this would qualify.  :)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 04:02:07 pm by mapcat »
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Offline froggie

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 05:01:46 pm »
Quote
I would propose not include hiking trails, railroad bridges, ferries, pedestrian bridges and the like - keeping it to highways / major roads

Given the different nature of "bridges"....if it's crossable to the normal traveler, it should be included.  So bike/ped bridges, ferries, and railroad bridges where there is regular passenger service (mostly AMTRAK, but occasionally LRT/commuter rail) count.  Bridges that are not passable under normal circumstances (like rail bridges without regular passenger services) and dams (with one notable exception on the Mississippi above Minneapolis) would not count.

Offline regoarrarr

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2018, 05:13:34 pm »
@mapcat - I'm open to suggestions.  Perhaps we could "approve" them on a case by case basis.  Forgive my ignorance as a relatively new community member, but could we do something similar to how new systems are approved right now?

@froggie - personally I'm okay with that as well

Offline froggie

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 05:24:30 pm »
I also don't think, if we were to do bridges, that it needs to be any more complicated than a single entry denoting a given bridge.  For example, lines in a list file could be something like thus:

ColuRvr Cascades
OhioRvr US421
PotoRvr YellowLine
MORvr I-35
MSRvr CoonRapDam
MSRvr WashAve

In the above examples, which include Amtrak, other rail transit, bike/ped, and streets/highways, I used 4 letters to denote the river name and "Rvr" for river.  In the case of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, both of which have the same first four letters, I used their postal abbreviations.  This arrangement could be adjusted to whatever the consensus wants.

I deliberately did not include state or region because for many major rivers, the river itself is a boundary.

For highway bridges that may have more than one span (like the Woodrow Wilson Bridge over the Potomac), it could either have a single point to denote the bridge or separate points for each direction to signify that each direction in such cases is on a different bridge structure.  This can be left to the group to decide.

Offline Jim

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 06:24:39 pm »
I like froggie's idea as a longer-term thing, but that requires code and DB changes.  If we were to make a new system "usarc" for "U.S.A. Select River Crossings" or something like that, we could have the segment or segments that you'd take to cross the bridge listed in wpt files for each, and the site update, database, and web front end don't need to change (which at this point, they would not likely do any time soon).

Offline yakra

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 07:31:19 pm »
This type of thing should be kept separate from the main TravelMapping site, as with ferry routes, bike routes, rail systems, etc.
If it gets off the ground, use a different subdomain...

Offline froggie

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 09:09:30 pm »
^ I could see crossings.travelmapping.net being used for this (or bridges.travelmapping.net if we'd separate out ferries).

Jim:  understand the need for DB/code changes to read a single waypoint, but if we're counting bridges, I really don't see why mileage needs to be added/counted.  Just a bridge count total.

Offline Bickendan

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Re: River crossings
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2018, 01:18:41 pm »
I also don't think, if we were to do bridges, that it needs to be any more complicated than a single entry denoting a given bridge.  For example, lines in a list file could be something like thus:

ColuRvr Cascades
OhioRvr US421
PotoRvr YellowLine
MORvr I-35
MSRvr CoonRapDam
MSRvr WashAve

In the above examples, which include Amtrak, other rail transit, bike/ped, and streets/highways, I used 4 letters to denote the river name and "Rvr" for river.  In the case of the Missouri and Mississippi rivers, both of which have the same first four letters, I used their postal abbreviations.  This arrangement could be adjusted to whatever the consensus wants.

I deliberately did not include state or region because for many major rivers, the river itself is a boundary.

For highway bridges that may have more than one span (like the Woodrow Wilson Bridge over the Potomac), it could either have a single point to denote the bridge or separate points for each direction to signify that each direction in such cases is on a different bridge structure.  This can be left to the group to decide.
Finally, the Columbia River Bridges (Lewis and Clark/WA 433), Bridge of the Gods, and Hood River Bridges could get the love I've been trying to get them...