Author Topic: African international systems thread  (Read 1659 times)

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Offline jwood.ok

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African international systems thread
« on: August 12, 2018, 11:35:14 pm »
I'm not quite sure of the process, but am kind of curious if there is a chance of more development of highways in African in the future.  Specifically, I'm interested in Zambia & Zimbabwe as I have quite a few miles logged in those two countries.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 12:09:16 pm by si404 »

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 05:08:49 am »
There is a chance. Your preference for Zambia and Zimbabwe is noted. You might have a wait, but...

Offline jwood.ok

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2018, 09:41:31 pm »
There is a chance. Your preference for Zambia and Zimbabwe is noted. You might have a wait, but...

Understood.  The nice thing about some of those countries is they don't have a great deal of infrastructure - certainly not many highways!

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 05:24:33 am »
The nice thing about some of those countries is they don't have a great deal of infrastructure - certainly not many highways!
Which means miles and miles of nothing, and a difficulty labelling points at times.

How do I know? Well Zambia's trunk roads are nearly done - just a few hundred miles of T1 and T4 to get on with today (after which I'll probably do more Namibia).

I also found out about the 'SADC Regional Trunk Road Network' (blurry map with numbers on p11 of this document, list given here), which is - despite being a sub-continental system - isn't confined to national roads - with some larger countries having a RTR network larger than their national road network. However it is smaller in Eswatini (despite a glut of RTR roads there), Mozambique, DRC, Malawi, Tanzania, Lesotho, etc and could form a way into those countries in a more meaningful way than the sparse Trans-African Highways network - which is how we started Europe and are starting Asia: do the multi-country system and then have that as a springboard for the national networks.

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 01:20:51 pm »
Namibia B Roads now fully drafted.

Zambia Trunk Roads are also fully drafted.

I've also outlined Botswana and Zimbabwe routes.

And, as I got fed up with drafting lengthy routes through remote areas, the small island of Mauritius now has routes drafted.

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2019, 05:48:19 am »
Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho and Zimbabwe routes now drafted.

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 05:23:23 pm »
https://au.int/web/sites/default/files/newsevents/workingdocuments/29736-wd-e_-_tah_annex_i_tah_network.pdf

TAH 1
Egypt: Cairo – Alexandria - El-Alamein – Amsaad ✓
Libya: Amsaad-Al Bayda – Benghazi – Ajdabiya – Abugrin – Misurata – Tripoli - Ras Ajdir
Tunisia: Ras Ajdir – Medenine – Gabès – Skhira – Sfax – Msaken – Tunis - Medjez El Bab – Jendouba ✓
Algeria:  - Constantine – Sétif – Bouira – Lakhdaria - El Afroun – Mascara - Sidi Bel Abbès –Tlemcen - Oujda ✓
Morocco: Oujda-Fès – Meknès – Rabat –Tanger - Rabat – Casablanca – Settat – Marrakech – Agadir –Guelmim – Laâyoune –Dakhla –  ✓
Mauritania: Nouâdhibou – Nouakchott - Rosso Bridge
Senegal: Rosso Bridge - Saint Louis –Thiès – Dakar ✓

TAH 2
Algeria: Algiers – Blida – Médéa – Laghouat – Ghardaïa - El Meniaa (El Goléa) -In Salah – Tamanghasset - In Guezzam
Niger: Assamaka – Arlit – Agadez – Tanaout – Zinder – Magaria-
Nigeria: Kongolam- Daura –– Kano -Kaduna – Jebba – Ilorin - Oyo – Ibadan – Lagos

TAH 3
Libya: Tripoli – Misurata – Abugrin – Wadden – Sabha - Um al Aranib - Al Katrun – Tajarhi -
Chad: Zouar - Faya (Largeau) – Moussoro –Massakori – Massaguet – Djermaya - N'djamena
Cameroon: Kousséri – Garoua – Ngaoundéré – Meidougou - Garoua Boulaï – Bertoua –kenzouGamboula
CAR: – Berberati – Salo –
Congo: Bomassa – Ouésso – Owando – Gamboma – Ngo – Brazzaville ✓
DRC: Kinshasa - Mbanza Ngungu – Matadi ✓
Angola: Noqui – Mepala - M'banza Congo – Negage – Lucula – Dondo - Alto Hama – Huambo – Cacula – Lubango – Ondjiva –   ✓
Namibia: Oshikango – Ondangwa – Oshivelo – Tsumbe – Otavi – Otjiwarongo – Okahandja – Windhoek – Rehoboth – Mariental – Keetmanshoop – Grunau – Noordoewer ✓
South Africa: Noordoewer - Cape Town ✓

TAH 4
Egypt: Cairo – Asyut – Aswan – Toshky – Arkeen -
Sudan: Wadi Halfa – Ghaba – Omdurman – Khartoum - Wad Medani – Gedaref – Doka – Galabat
Ethiopia: – Azèzo – Merawi - Debre Marcos – Dejen - Goha Tsiyon - Addis Ababa – Mojo – Awasa – Dila - Agere Maryam – Mega – moyale
Kenya: Moyale – Marsabit – Isiolo – Nanyuki – Marua – Makutano – Thika –Nairobi - Athi River – Namanga ✓
Tanzania: Namanga – Arusha – Minjingu – Babati - Dodoma – Iringa – Igawa – Mbeya – Tunduma ✓
Zambia: Nakonde – Mpika – Kapiri – Kabwe – Lusaka – Kafue – Mazabuka – Monze – Choma – Livingstone ✓
Zimbabwe: Victoria Falls – Bulawayo – Plumtree ✓
Botswana: Francistown – Palapye – Mahalapye – Gaborone – Lobatse – ✓
South Africa: Ramatlabama – Cape Town ✓

TAH 5
Senegal: Dakar - Diam Niadio – Mbour – Kaoloack – Kaffrine – Tambacounda –Kedougou – Saraya – Falémé ✓
Mali:  – Kéniéba – Kita – Bamako – Bougouni – Sikasso –
Burkina Faso: Koloko - Bobo Dioulasso – Boromo – Ouagadougou – Koupéla - Fada Ngourma – Kantchari –
Niger: Foetchango – Niamey – Dosso – Dogondoutchi - Birnin N'Konni – Tsernaoua - Guidan Roumdji – Maradi –
Nigeria: Jibiya – Katsine – Bichi – Kano – Kari – Potiskum – Damaturu – Maiduguri – Dikwa -
Cameroon: Fotokol – Maltam – Kousséri
Chad: Kousséri - N'djamena

TAH 6
Chad: N’djamena – Massaguet – Ngoura – Bokoro – Mangalmé -Oum Hadjer – Abéché – Adre
Sudan: - El Geneina – Zalingei – Nyala -En Nouhud - El Obeid – Kosti – Sennar - Wad Medani – Gedaref – Doka - Gallabat
Ethiopia: Metema – Azèzo – Werota – Weldiya – Dese – Kembolcha – Bati – Mille – Dobi –
Djibouti: Galafi – Dikhil - Djibouti

TAH 7
Senegal: Dakar- Diam Niadio – Mbour – Kaolack – Sokone – Karang – Karang ✓
Gambia: –Barra – Banjul –  ✓
Senegal: Séléti – Diouloulou – Bignona – Ziguinchor – Mpack ✓
Guinea Bissau: – Bula –Safim – Bissau – Safim – Nhacra – Jugudul – Bambadinca – Quebo
Guinea: – Dabiss – Boké – Boffa – Du breka - Conakry – Coyah – Forécariah – Pamelap
Sierra Leone: - Port Loko – Masiaka – Freetown – Masiaka – Taiama – Bo – Bandajuma – Mano River Union Bridge
Liberia: Mano River Union Bridge – Klay – Monrovia – Kakata – Totota – Gbarnga – Ganta – Tappita – Tobli – Blay –
Cote d'Ivoire: Toulepleu – Blolékin – Guiglo - Duekoué – Daloa – Yamoussoukro – Toumodi – Abidjan - Grand Bassam – Aboisso –
Ghana: Elubo – Axim – Sekondi Takoradi - Accra – Dawa – Sogakofe – Denu –
Togo: Lomé – Hilakondji
Benin: – Cotonou – Seme krake
Nigeria: – Badagry – Lagos

TAH 8
Nigeria: Lagos – Shagamu – Benin – Onitsha – Enugu – Abakaliki – Ikom-Mfum- Ekok
Cameroon: Ekok – Mamfé – Bamenda – Bafoussam – Foumban – Tibati – Meidougou - Garoua Boulaï
CAR: Bouar – Baoro – Bossemptélé – Yaloké – Bossembélé – Bangui – Damara – Sibut – Bambari – Bangassou
DRC: – Bondo – Dulia – Buta – Kisangani - Nia Nia – Komanda – Beni – Kasindi ✓
Uganda: Kasindi – Mbarara – Kampala – Malaba ✓
Kenya: Malaba – Eldoret – Nakuru – Nairobi – Voi – Mombasa ✓

TAH 9
Mozambique: Beira – Machipanda –  ✓
Zimbabwe: Mutare – Harare – Chirundu ✓
Zambia: Chirundu – Lusaka – Chisamba – Kabwe – Kapiri – Ndola – Kitwe – Chingola – Kasumbalesa ✓
DRC: Kasumbalesa – Lubumbashi – Likasi – Nguba – Kolwezi – Dilolo ✓
Angola: Luena – Kuito – Cachiungo - Alto Hama - Lobito ✓

TAH 10
Djibouti: Djibouti (Sea Port) – Ethiopian Border
Ethiopia: Djibouti Border– Modjo - Moyale (Kenya Border)
Kenya:  Moyale – Nairobi – Busia (Uganda Border) ✓
Uganda: Busia – Kampala – Rwanda Border ✓
Rwanda:  Uganda Border – Kigali – Burundi Border ✓
Burundi: Rwanda Border – Bujumbura – DRC Border ✓
DRC: Burundi Border – Kananga – Tshikapa – Kikwit – Kinshasa ✓
Congo: Brazzaville – Mbinda ✓
Gabon: Mbinda – Kougouleu - Medouneu ✓
Equatorial Guinea: Medouneu - Bata ✓
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 09:17:16 am by si404 »

Offline jwood.ok

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 03:59:59 pm »
Namibia B Roads now fully drafted.

Zambia Trunk Roads are also fully drafted.

I've also outlined Botswana and Zimbabwe routes.

And, as I got fed up with drafting lengthy routes through remote areas, the small island of Mauritius now has routes drafted.

Thank you for your work on this.  I am not sure if I've ever been clear on this before or not, but what is the difference between devel & preview?  Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).

Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help, specifically in Zambia.  I lived there growing up - long enough ago that things have probably changed, but I still know a decent amount of people there, so it's possible if need help from boots on the ground, I may be able to get some info.


Offline michih

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 04:06:32 pm »
I am not sure if I've ever been clear on this before or not, but what is the difference between devel & preview?  Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).

Both are in HB but only preview systems are considered for stats. You cannot see devel systems on the region nor system maps.

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 04:24:10 pm »
Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).
Yep.
Quote
Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help
Unless you can source a proper route log of the SADC Regional Trunk Road Network, with numbers for every route (the only map I've found where the numbers are clear isn't complete, and is outdated as more routes have been added to the network - including the entire DRC), I believe I'm OK.

Anyway, Malawi is coming... Angola and Mozambique are rather vast and somewhat messy, the DRC is even worse. Maybe Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi to come?

Offline neroute2

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 04:56:15 pm »
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.

Offline jwood.ok

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 04:58:38 pm »
Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).
Yep.
Quote
Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help
Unless you can source a proper route log of the SADC Regional Trunk Road Network, with numbers for every route (the only map I've found where the numbers are clear isn't complete, and is outdated as more routes have been added to the network - including the entire DRC), I believe I'm OK.

Anyway, Malawi is coming... Angola and Mozambique are rather vast and somewhat messy, the DRC is even worse. Maybe Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi to come?

I can understand that info being hard to get ahold of.  Thank you for all the work you've done!

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 10:39:06 am »
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.
Thanks, the stuff on the RTRN wasn't that helpful - other than suggesting some numbers I have aren't right, but only giving me the illegible numbers on the network map as alternatives. As the numbers on every iteration of the network map were different to many of the ones on the EADC 'extend the system map', I can't take that map with clear numbers as being useful.  ::)

Offline si404

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2019, 04:44:23 pm »
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.
Thanks, the stuff on the RTRN wasn't that helpful - other than suggesting some numbers I have aren't right, but only giving me the illegible numbers on the network map as alternatives. As the numbers on every iteration of the network map were different to many of the ones on the EADC 'extend the system map', I can't take that map with clear numbers as being useful.  ::)
The EADC stuff meant I found a better numbering proposal from a Tanzanian document about those routes.

And, actually with a very keen eye, I was able to get a few numbers off the SADC RTRN map in that Rwandan document. I believe I've got all the ones not in Angola or the DRC. I've got most of Angola, but the DRC is full of weird numbers. There's definitely an RTRxxxA route that's much much longer than RTRxxx, and the two routes aren't really related.

From what I gather from further research, they keep creating proposals (for both development systems) of the network with proposed numbering (which is pretty consistent for the SADC, but still not always the same), but haven't concreted it (and when they do it might be as a combined thing), which is why I've failed to find any authoritative numbering for either.

That said, the main purpose of me using these systems was to get a toe hold in various countries before doing a whole system - and other than a few bits (and much of Uganda), they are concurrent with either systems I've now made, or will make (agon, bdirn, codn, mozn, rwarn, zafr).

Uganda and Keyna might have finally got rid of the old East African road numbering (that has the main roads in both countries the A104 and A109, with Kenya have a few more roads, some with important numbers, but not all. You'd have thought the Nairobi-Mombassa road would be worthy of a low number even in a regional system, ditto the Nairobi-Kampala road. After all they are part of a continental system with a single-digit number. But no, they don't even get a single number - both are 'don't turn off to stay on the A104, and follow the A109 instead'), but I can't find anything. At least Kenya has lots of other roads numbered meaning that the old A and B system is easy to create files for with the plethora of C, D and E (and basic towns). Uganda is a mess with just 4 numbered roads if I ignore the EADC and TAH roads, and two of them are rather short and there's several major corridors lacking actual numbers rather than regional/continental systems.

Offline michih

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Re: More African highways?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2019, 03:00:36 am »
Should we move the thread to "In-progress Highway Systems & Work"?
Shouldn't we have a sticky with (potential) systems overview there?