Author Topic: usaal: Alabama State Routes  (Read 2431 times)

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Offline froggie

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usaal: Alabama State Routes
« on: August 17, 2018, 10:58:46 pm »
By popular demand (i.e. enough private messages), and also because it's less complicated than Mississippi's system (despite the mostly-hidden concurrencies AL routes have underneath the U.S. routes), I've opted to begin work on the Alabama State Routes list.

Primary sources will be the route log located at the end of the ALDOT Annual Report (updated annually...linked is the most recent FY 2017 version), and the county-level Milepost maps (which are typically updated more often than the county-level highway maps).  I also have considerable experience with Alabama, having been to all 67 counties and being stationed twice next door in Mississippi.

Regarding underlying state routes concurrent with U.S. routes, my philosophy is such:  if the underlying route is signed, I will include the segment.  If not signed/it's hidden, I will not include the segment.  So, for example, I will include AL 13 where it's concurrent with US 43 north of Spruce Pine because it's cosigned there, but I will not include AL 13 south of Berry because that's where it goes hidden.  Because of this, the lowest route number I will be including is AL 5.**

(EDIT:) ** - AL 4 is a murky one.  It's supposed to be the hidden concurrency with US 78 across the state, but it's also signed along some of the newer Corridor X segments.  I'm not sure offhand A) whether to include it or not (despite what I mentioned above), or B) what the endpoints of its signing are.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 07:59:18 am by froggie »

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 10:05:13 am »
First question-mark area:  the 4-lane connector between I-20/59 Exit 1 and US 11/80 in Cuba.  Officially, it's a hidden segment of AL 8.  But there's very little in the way of signage.  From I-20/59, it's signed as "TO US 80".  At the US 11/80 intersection, there are a few TO I-20/I-59 trailblazers but nothing on the mainline itself leaving the intersection.  And the street blade on the overpass at I-20/59 says "SPUR US 80".

It seems too important of a route connector to not include (it's on the NHS too), but I'm not sure how to mark it, or even if I should include it.  Thoughts from the collaborator masses?

Offline yakra

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 01:51:44 pm »
Not signed as part of AL8 itself, I'd say leave it out.

Offline vdeane

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 03:04:34 pm »
Awesome!  Once this is in preview, there will finally be state route systems on the map for every state I've actually been to, and I'll finally have a .list file free of commented out "speculative" entries.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 05:31:44 pm »
Not signed as part of AL8 itself, I'd say leave it out.

Agreed.

Thanks for working on this set.
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Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2018, 03:05:31 pm »
My next problem area:  what to do with ALT US 78.  As best as I can tell, ALDOT hasn't asked AASHTO to decommission it, but ALDOT does not sign it anywhere anymore.  It's signed only as its underlying routes:  AL 74, US 43, AL 118, and AL 5.  Given our past precedent with unsigned routes, I'm inclined to remove it.

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2018, 03:24:21 pm »
My next problem area:  what to do with ALT US 78.  As best as I can tell, ALDOT hasn't asked AASHTO to decommission it, but ALDOT does not sign it anywhere anymore.  It's signed only as its underlying routes:  AL 74, US 43, AL 118, and AL 5.  Given our past precedent with unsigned routes, I'm inclined to remove it.

Maybe set it for removal when usaal is activated? In similar situations, such as with usasf routes to be moved to the state set, we've left them alone (or extended them) until the new set is activated. Users don't like to lose mileage even with the promise that it will eventually be restored.
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Online clong

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 04:35:58 pm »
As 1 of those private messengers and a nearly life-long AL resident, I'm glad to see this effort.

I can help with signage questions especially in the Birmingham area and along Interstates 20, 59 and 65 between Birmingham and the Georgia and Tennessee state lines.

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 10:35:16 pm »
My next problem area:  what to do with ALT US 78.  As best as I can tell, ALDOT hasn't asked AASHTO to decommission it, but ALDOT does not sign it anywhere anymore.  It's signed only as its underlying routes:  AL 74, US 43, AL 118, and AL 5.  Given our past precedent with unsigned routes, I'm inclined to remove it.

Maybe set it for removal when usaal is activated? In similar situations, such as with usasf routes to be moved to the state set, we've left them alone (or extended them) until the new set is activated. Users don't like to lose mileage even with the promise that it will eventually be restored.

However, our past precedent is that we typically remove a route if it's fully unsigned without waiting for "route system" changes.  And this one will affect the US route updates I'm in the process of making as a preliminary step to creating the state routes.

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2018, 10:00:08 am »
Going to start documenting my known problem areas.  My first one involves AL 126.  This route effectively encompasses BOTH frontage roads along I-65 between Exit 11 and Exit 16, but T's with itself just north of Exit 11 with that spur extending a short ways to the northwest.

Two ways I can think of offhand to handle this one.  First is to begin at the T, run east along the northern frontage road, then back west along the southern frontage road, back through the T, and on to the end of the spur.  This option corresponds to the mileposts as documented in the Montgomery County Milepost map.

The second option would be to split it into two routes, a northern leg and southern leg.  Not sure offhand where I'd put the eastern endpoint of both legs if I use this option.

Offline yakra

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 01:12:53 pm »
Quote
Given our past precedent with unsigned routes, I'm inclined to remove it.
I agree with this.

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2018, 02:41:09 pm »
Quote from: clong
I can help with signage questions especially in the Birmingham area and along Interstates 20, 59 and 65 between Birmingham and the Georgia and Tennessee state lines.

My first question for you then:  is AL 378 signed along Finley Blvd yet?

Online clong

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 01:22:13 pm »

This is at the end of the northbound exit ramp of I-65 at Finley Blvd.


This is at the end of the west/southbound exit ramp of I-20/59 at Arkadelphia Rd.

Photos courtesy Voyager75 on aaroads

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 05:36:50 pm »
Enough for me.  I'll be sure to include it.

Offline froggie

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Re: usaal: Alabama State Routes
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 09:59:09 am »
Next question for clong or whomever can answer:  is AL 382 signed in Centreville?  According to ALDOT milepost maps, it runs from AL 219 to the east end of the bypass.