Author Topic: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?  (Read 373 times)

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Offline Markkos1992

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PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« on: March 17, 2019, 03:31:21 pm »
Is there a legitimate way for me to line up PA 857 with US 119 and PA 43?  My initial intuition based on signage says no, but is there a precedent for allowing this?

Currently PA 857 does not connect with another route in the HB though it does intersect US 119 NB at its northern end as it turns onto PA 43 NB.

GSV from the PA 43 NB and PA 43 SB off-ramps shows only "TO PA 857" shields.  US 119 SB traffic must use the PA 43 SB off-ramp.

To make this even weirder, Morgantown Rd is shown as SR 119 to the US 40 WB off-ramp.

Offline dave1693

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Re: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 04:56:58 pm »
Is there a legitimate way for me to line up PA 857 with US 119 and PA 43?  My initial intuition based on signage says no, but is there a precedent for allowing this?

Currently PA 857 does not connect with another route in the HB though it does intersect US 119 NB at its northern end as it turns onto PA 43 NB.

GSV from the PA 43 NB and PA 43 SB off-ramps shows only "TO PA 857" shields.  US 119 SB traffic must use the PA 43 SB off-ramp.

To make this even weirder, Morgantown Rd is shown as SR 119 to the US 40 WB off-ramp.

Going from the US 40 WB off-ramp to PA 857 on Morgantown Rd southbound, GSV shows "TO South US 119" roughly halfway between US 40 and PA 857, but "South US 119" (*no* "TO") at the sign complex at the intersection. Coupled with the SR 0119 numbering extending north, I'd say this could argue for US 119 to extend in *both* directions at least as far as PA 857. The PennDOT goes and screws everything up, by marking the ramp from northbound US 119 to northbound PA 43 as "TO North US 119" when in no way should there be a "TO" banner there at all... and the top of the ramp from NB PA 43 has no signage at all, just bare posts, in the current GSV. Yeah, this is a bit of a fustercluck.

Technically by PennDOT standards I think there may be a discontinuity in US 119. That doesn't mean we have to reflect this in the HB, but we may have some latitude in deciding just how to do the connection, which could include a junction with PA 857.

Offline neroute2

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Re: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 09:37:57 pm »
PA 857 ends at an intersection that includes a freeway ramp. Shouldn't that be enough to combine it for one point per interchange?

Offline yakra

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« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 10:52:21 pm by rickmastfan67 »

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2019, 02:59:38 pm »
http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=nh.nh140

I was thinking of PA 44 actually at first.  The difference here is that US 119 turns onto PA 43 instead of staying on Morgantown Rd, which is unnumbered in the field to the north.  I cannot think of a situation like this elsewhere.  I have no plans to change PA 44 as it already has a graph connection with PA 42, which has a graph connection with I-80.

My current thought on how to handle this would be to break a small part of the concurrency, but this would actually start the concurrency detection at a shaping point added slightly to the north for both PA 43 and US 119.  No visible point labels would change except for a new point on US 119 at the north end of PA 857.

US 119:
PA43_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.865410&lon=-79.747795 (stays the same as before minus slight recentering)
PA857 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.866589&lon=-79.745472 (new point that lines up with PA 857)
+X(PA43_S) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.867721&lon=-79.746258  (shaping point that lines up with +X(US119_S)-I believe that the concurrency detection would start here.)

PA 43:
US119_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.865410&lon=-79.747795 (stays the same as before minus slight recentering)
+X(US119_S) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.867721&lon=-79.746258 (shaping point that lines up with +X(PA43_S)-I believe that the concurrency detection would start here.)

PA 857 would not change except for being lined up with US 119.

Offline yakra

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Re: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 02:33:36 pm »
119/43 should just have one point per interchange, avoiding tracing just one direction of the route here.
Sometimes, we'll just have places with no graph connections.

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: PA: PA 857 Lining Up with US 119 and PA 43?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 05:46:18 pm »
I have decided to leave everything here as-is.

Since PA 857 is short and does not have graph connections with any other routes as stated previously, I went ahead and recentered it.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2704