Author Topic: France Routes Départementales (frad)  (Read 8650 times)

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Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2019, 05:41:57 am »
Same situation for N7 in Essonne. And there seem to be similar cases according to wikisara:

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À noter la renumérotation originale dans les départements des Bouches-du-Rhône (D7n) et du Var (DN7). Ces désignations particulières spécifiques à ces deux départements ont été choisies pour conserver l'appellation RN7, à grande valeur symbolique. L'Essonne (91) a quant à elle choisi de ne pas renuméroter la route nationale déclassée, ce qui est source de confusion quant à son statut réel.
Google translated:
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Note the original renumbering in the departments of Bouches-du-Rhône (D7n) and Var (DN7). These special designations specific to these two departments have been chosen to retain the RN7 designation, which has a high symbolic value. Essonne (91) has chosen not to renumber the declassed national road, which is confusing as to its actual status.
:)

Offline si404

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #91 on: August 15, 2019, 06:44:49 am »
It's a total mess, but this is what you get if you number roads by who maintains them (see also the mess the other side of the Alps, and (to a lesser extent) the Pyrenees).

It seems that the IDF departments didn't really want the downgrades, or don't really care about signage. Probably a bit of both.

Add in that N7 is the French route 66 type famous route and downgrading any of it was seen as controversial.

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #92 on: August 15, 2019, 10:44:55 am »
I've generally skipped the "numéro d'ordre", for instance, D4E1 is just D4E.

I've changed my mind since there are a lot of routes in Seine-et-Marne (77) with "numéro d'ordre". For instance, there are D32, D32E2, D32E3 and D32E4, or D55, D55B, D55E, D55E1, D55E4 and D55EB, or D137, D137E, D137E2, D137E3 and D137E4.

Offline michih

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Re: Split France into regions
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2019, 03:58:48 am »
I found two issues about the "split into regions" action.

A16 goes into IDF again, the "border section" should be as follows:

Code: [Select]
N1/N184 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.103123&lon=2.266660
11 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.127109&lon=2.253426
12 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.149742&lon=2.247434
IDF/HDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.153396&lon=2.244856
HDF/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.164654&lon=2.231284
IDF/HDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.172038&lon=2.227864
13 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.209607&lon=2.156625

A77 is also not 100% correct on leaving IDF. It should be read as follows:

Code: [Select]
A6 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.217153&lon=2.773619
17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.172554&lon=2.766795
IDF/CVL_1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.163910&lon=2.760731
CVL/IDF_1 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.162661&lon=2.759199
IDF/CVL_2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.161155&lon=2.757622
CVL/IDF http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.153733&lon=2.752805
IDF/CVL_3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.142244&lon=2.741325
+X02 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.127143&lon=2.712765
A19 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.060328&lon=2.671480

@Si, let me know if I should deal with it and find section names.

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #94 on: August 18, 2019, 05:40:47 am »
I've completed drafting the first mainland system for the metropolitan region Île-de-France around Paris. It is the smallest but most populated mainland region with 8 departements. fraidfd system has more than 5,500mi with more than 1,200 routes. Paris departement (75) does not have D routes.

wikisara is a good source but there's a lack of overview articles for many departements. I've edited the url manually and found a lot of articles. However, there is usually no full list of routes. I've included everything confirmed by wikisara and OSM/GM. If OSM/GM were incomplete, I've checked GSV.
There's also a map (geoportal for Seine-Saint-Denis which is also fine but sometimes different to OSM/GM. I've only drafted routes according to the map and have ignored what OSM, GM or wikisara indicate.

Main issues are outdated old signs, especially for old N routes, and inaccurate GM and OSM data. GM often indicates the old N route old, OSM and GM often extend D route numbers from a departement into the next departement. That means, the number doesn't change on OSM but there is often no evidence that the route is a D route in the second departement. Or there is a different number but OSM and GM indicate the wrong one.

Routes are often downgraded to "communal" roads. I've usually ignored the fact if the route through the town is clear (confirmed by OSM and GM). I haven't drafted routes which are indicated on wikisara being completely downgraded but indicated on OSM and GM. I have included similar routes if there is no wikisara article for the route though.

In general, I would not rely on OSM in France! We should minimum find another source, e.g. GM. If both are identical, it usually seems to be correct. I press the "OSM" button in wpt editor and report the issue to OSM maintainers when I find incorrect data. I hope it will be fixed one day to avoid having to check routing again and again in the future.


Some notes to routes of "active" systems:

Shouldn't N415 wp "N1" be renamed since there is no N1 route (in HB)?

N441 should be truncated at north end according to wikisara (confirmed by OSM)

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #95 on: August 23, 2019, 04:22:57 pm »
I've started drafting fragesd system for Moselle departement (57). Since departements 67 and 68 will be merged, and we'll have to wait for their new numbering, I have a temporary system for each departement. This way, it's also possible to bring it to preview earlier - when, let's say 300 routes are drafted instead of waiting till more than 1,000 routes are drafed.

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #96 on: August 25, 2019, 11:30:22 am »
Could glpd, gufd, mtqd, mytd and reud go to preview?

Offline yakra

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #97 on: August 25, 2019, 07:35:32 pm »
Let me know anytime you'd like me to do the automated Multiplex checks again.

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #98 on: September 01, 2019, 02:19:13 pm »
I've started drafting fragesd system for Moselle departement (57).

I've just realized that from 2020-01-01 some route segments will be dedicated as M routes: https://routes.fandom.com/wiki/Metz_M%C3%A9tropole#En_g.C3.A9n.C3.A9ral (M1, M6, M7, M11, M69, M157A, M157B, M603, M643, M652, M657, M903, M913, M953, M954, M955, M999) The D and M segments are indicated on the wikisara articles, e.g. D1/M1 but OSM still shows D routes. The articles have just been changed last week :(

Quote
Depuis le 1er janvier 2020, la partie de cette route qui se situe dans la métropole de Metz a été reclassée en tant que route métropolitaine en conservant son ancienne numérotation, soit M1.
Google translated:
Since January 1, 2020, the part of this road that is located in the metropolis of Metz has been reclassified as a metropolitan road retaining its old numbering, M1.

I tend to ignore that fact first. We'll face similar situations in other regions too, e.g. in Nice. @Si: Have you realized that some A6 and A7 sections in Lyon have been dedicated to M6/M7 and that there are already new signs on-site? How do we wanna deal with M routes in general?

Offline si404

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #99 on: September 01, 2019, 03:18:24 pm »
I tend to ignore that fact first. We'll face similar situations in other regions too, e.g. in Nice.
Just put them in with the D? cf Spain having several systems (espa, espcn, espga, espib, espn, esppv) with different prefixes. Just put the French for "Department and Metropolis Routes" as the system description, rather than "Department Routes".

Quote
@Si: Have you realized that some A6 and A7 sections in Lyon have been dedicated to M6/M7 and that there are already new signs on-site?
I hadn't realised they'd been resigned now (didn't know their numbers either). I'd been checking every few months since the legal orders removing national status from them were made. Will investigate further...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2019, 03:20:35 pm by si404 »

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2019, 03:34:20 pm »
Just put them in with the D? cf Spain having several systems (espa, espcn, espga, espib, espn, esppv) with different prefixes. Just put the French for "Department and Metropolis Routes" as the system description, rather than "Department Routes".

I'll keep them as one D route for the time being.

I hadn't realised they'd been resigned now (didn't know their numbers either). I'd been checking every few months since the legal orders removing national status from them were made. Will investigate further...

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=161805172&postcount=4527

btw: Do you wanna split France "soon" (after activation of the Spanish systems)?

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #101 on: September 20, 2019, 03:39:24 am »
http://travelmapping.net/hb?r=guf.d001 has a duplicate label "D3" which cannot be used right now.

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2019, 10:08:12 am »
I've just realized that from 2020-01-01 some route segments will be dedicated as M routes: https://routes.fandom.com/wiki/Metz_M%C3%A9tropole#En_g.C3.A9n.C3.A9ral (M1, M6, M7, M11, M69, M157A, M157B, M603, M643, M652, M657, M903, M913, M953, M954, M955, M999) The D and M segments are indicated on the wikisara articles, e.g. D1/M1 but OSM still shows D routes. The articles have just been changed last week :(

Same issue with departement 54: https://routes.fandom.com/wiki/M%C3%A9tropole_du_Grand_Nancy
I'll also ignore M2, M32, M71, M83, M112, M321, M400, M570 and M974. To be checked later.



GES departement Moselle (57) is in preview now.
GES departement Meurthe-et-Moselle (54) is in devel.


@Si, I still have to submit some wpt files but I don't touch fraa, fran, eure nor eursf routes. You can go ahead with the French separation when you have time.

Offline dave1693

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #103 on: September 27, 2019, 05:38:28 pm »
Dammit, France, you're being worse than Ontario was... I am deliberately not updating my .list to include anything further in France until this settles down. I'm quite certain that I'll have some routes that were D routes in 1978, some D routes and maybe some M routes that were N routes in 1978, and heaven knows what A routes I've traveled are getting downloaded to M routes...

Offline michih

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Re: France Routes Départementales (frad)
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2019, 03:13:55 pm »
I'd like to bring it here:

I've given michih FRA-IDF and FRA-GES, while taking FRA-COR, FRA-CVL, FRA-PDL and FRA-BRE for myself. These regions will exist properly when France is split sometime soon.

So, you also wanna get rid of maintenance of the regions? I thought only developing frad systems. But fine to me. Need to ask panda80 what regions he wants.

I wanna add that I'll not starting maintenance works before the split is done (and/or I'll back from my travel).

Actual situation:

FRA, FRH - si404 (legacy regions)
FRA-BRE, FRA-COR, FRA-CVL, FRA-PDL - si404
FRA-ARA, FRA-BFC, FRA-HDF, FRA-NAQ, FRA-NOR, FRA-OCC, FRA-PAC - si404 (nominally)
FRA-GES, FRA-IDF - michih

I'd like to take FRA-HDF and FRA-BFC since they are next to my other regions (FRA-IDF, FRA-GES, BEL, LUX, DEU, CHE). I would have the "northeastern part" of France.
Si has the three western / central regions but FRA-NOR is "in-between". Thoughts?

If Si or I would take Normandy, panda could have the "whole south": FRA-ARA, FRA-NAQ, FRA-NOR, FRA-OCC and FRA-PAC - almost 50% of the whole mainland area but mountainous. Thoughts? (I might take ARA too)