Author Topic: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?  (Read 232 times)

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Offline neroute2

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Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« on: August 24, 2019, 05:45:35 pm »
D routes are toll bypasses of the unsuffixed free routes. Often the endpoints are obvious, for example 180D east of Coatzacoalcos. It splits from 180 at both ends, and is all maintained with toll money (compare the length on #17 in the middle column).

But there can be complications. The portion of 45D bypassing Irapuato to the south is free to travel, but is still toll maintained ("begin section in charge of Capufe") (and signed as 45D, though there are many errors across Mexico in which the D is erroneously omitted or included). Still it seems clear that this is part of 45D. It's toll maintained, signed as D, and built to freeway standards.

Now I'll give examples of cases where one or more of these is not true.

14D's west end at Uruapan. Toll maintenance ends where the freeway ends. A distance sign just beyond does call it 14D, as does an overhead sign on what is a really a city street. So here we have signage on what's neither a freeway nor maintained as a toll road. Luckily signage is consistent and we have a logical endpoint.

1D's north end at Tijuana. Toll maintenance ends just past the toll booth, before the interchange where it curves east next to the border. The remainder of the freeway is either federally maintained as a branch of 1 (if I'm interpreting this source correctly) or locally maintained. There are no northbound signs for 1D past that interchange. Southbound signs exist but are of the "implied to" style that are common in Mexico. In other words, a sign for a route may either be saying that you're on that route or that the road you are on leads to that route. Here are several 1D signs all over the Tijuana area, some far from any route that could actually be 1D: #1 #2 #3. So do we end 1D where it stops being a toll road (and put the rest of the freeway in mexsf), or where the freeway ends? Or do we keep it going farther east along Calle Segunda/Benito Juarez?

2D's west end at Tijuana. Just like 1D, toll maintenance ends before the freeway ends, in this case at the BC 201 interchange. The freeway continues a bit farther (note that this freeway predates BC 201). It then feeds into a local boulevard that predates the construction of 2D. As with 1D, there are signs for 2D eastbound but not westbound on this freeway (which is federally maintained according to GIS data) and boulevard. The junction chosen to be the west end of our file is not in fact the westernmost sign for 2D; here is one farther west on Boulevard de las Americas, and as with 1D there are many signs on other roads pointing towards 2D. So here the options are BC 201 (end of maintenance), end of freeway, or somewhere chosen along the continuing surface road.

Offline michih

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 05:14:16 am »
2D's west end at Tijuana. Just like 1D, toll maintenance ends before the freeway ends, in this case at the BC 201 interchange. The freeway continues a bit farther (note that this freeway predates BC 201). It then feeds into a local boulevard that predates the construction of 2D. As with 1D, there are signs for 2D eastbound but not westbound on this freeway (which is federally maintained according to GIS data) and boulevard. The junction chosen to be the west end of our file is not in fact the westernmost sign for 2D; here is one farther west on Boulevard de las Americas, and as with 1D there are many signs on other roads pointing towards 2D. So here the options are BC 201 (end of maintenance), end of freeway, or somewhere chosen along the continuing surface road.

I'd truncate it to BC201 interchange.

Offline neroute2

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 12:25:28 pm »
2D's west end at Tijuana. Just like 1D, toll maintenance ends before the freeway ends, in this case at the BC 201 interchange. The freeway continues a bit farther (note that this freeway predates BC 201). It then feeds into a local boulevard that predates the construction of 2D. As with 1D, there are signs for 2D eastbound but not westbound on this freeway (which is federally maintained according to GIS data) and boulevard. The junction chosen to be the west end of our file is not in fact the westernmost sign for 2D; here is one farther west on Boulevard de las Americas, and as with 1D there are many signs on other roads pointing towards 2D. So here the options are BC 201 (end of maintenance), end of freeway, or somewhere chosen along the continuing surface road.

I'd truncate it to BC201 interchange.
Reasons? Would you do the same thing with 1D - truncate it to the beach exit?

Offline michih

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 01:17:27 pm »
According to your description, the eastbound 2D signs should be interpreted as "To 2D". In the end, it's only maintained and signed up to BC201. I've not yet checked 1D

Offline Duke87

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 02:54:04 pm »
So, the general principal I would apply here, in a sort of tiered approach, is:

1) Signage is the final arbiter if signage is clear and consistent.
2) If signage is spotty or ambiguous, or if different signs contradict each other, follow what official government sources say on paper.
3) If official government sources are not available, or if they are spotty, ambiguous, or internally inconsistent... then a subjective determination about what seems to make the most sense needs to be made.

Regarding 2D specifically, I agree with michih's interpretation that signage is sufficiently consistent to show the route ending at the BC 201 junction in spite of what federal GIS may indicate, and that any eastbound shields west of there can be interpreted as "to 2D". Just like these signs are clearly pointing "to 2", which is not at this junction at all.



Offline michih

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 03:14:27 pm »
I'd remove the 1D extension east of PerLibSur wp for the same reason

Offline neroute2

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 03:33:37 pm »
I'd remove the 1D extension east of PerLibSur wp for the same reason
Why there? It's only maintained to the beach exit.

Offline Duke87

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 05:11:21 pm »
Yeah I'm thinking beach exit for 1D.

This sign would seem to indicate it continues past that exit, but then when you look at the onramps...

This means signage is inconsistent which pushes it into option 2 - go with what official government sources say on paper. If said sources say it ends there, it ends there.


On the subject of 1D, there does not appear to actually be a legal public access point at ParMexSur. So that point should go away. A shaping point closer to the curve to the south might be warranted instead.

Offline neroute2

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 06:47:17 pm »
On the subject of 1D, there does not appear to actually be a legal public access point at ParMexSur. So that point should go away. A shaping point closer to the curve to the south might be warranted instead.
Yeah, that's one of many changes I'm proposing.

Offline michih

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 01:52:49 pm »
I'd remove the 1D extension east of PerLibSur wp for the same reason
Why there? It's only maintained to the beach exit.

Sorry, minimum to PerLibSur since OSM and GM indicate it up to PerLibSur. I thought that the toll booth is also there but I was wrong. Sorry.
I don't know about "official" data since your link to sct.gob.mx doesn't work (server not found error).

Offline neroute2

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 03:00:20 pm »
Why do we care what OSM and Google say if they're wrong?

Offline michih

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 04:10:40 pm »
I thought that the toll booth is there, and that OSM and GM did confirm what you wrote. I didn't check GSV since you wrote that signs are only missing beyond the toll booth. I was wrong, sorry!

The pdf from sct.gob.mx opens now. It doesn't really help though...

Offline neroute2

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Re: Mexico: where to put the end of D routes?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 04:33:36 pm »
Yeah, that PDF doesn't help much here. It's more for the non-toll routes (which, holy crap, can those be complicated).