Author Topic: Hungary E66  (Read 252 times)

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Offline si404

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Hungary E66
« on: September 15, 2019, 01:07:17 pm »
Hungary have proposed an extension of E66 for next month's meeting of the UNECE Working Party on Road Transport. The thing is that this extension is already in the AGR, as they proposed it, and had it accepted, in 2012!

Hungary thinks the E66 is currently: Fortezza - St. Candido - Spittal - Villach - Klagenfurt - Graz - Veszprém – Székesfehérvár
Hungary wants it as this: Fortezza - St. Candido - Spittal - Villach - Klagenfurt - Graz - Veszprém – Székesfehérvár – Kecskemét – Szolnok
UNECE has it as this currently: Fortezza - St. Candido - Spittal - Villach - Klagenfurt - Graz - Veszprém - Székesfehérvár - Dunaújváros - Kecskemét -Szolnok

Obviously this extension has been in the browser for a long time. However, not only the extension is unsigned on GMSV from last year, but also the new proposal takes a different route at Kecskemét to what we have in the browser (new bypass). They clearly plan on signing it - the reason its unsigned is seemingly that they forgot they had already proposed it!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 04:30:03 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 01:13:53 pm »
The working party is 16-18 October 2019. I hope that there will be a publication about the decision.

Offline michih

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 07:09:09 am »
Will there be an info about the decision? I couldn't find anything yet.....

Offline si404

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 09:56:16 am »
 They are normally slow to put meeting minutes online.

Offline si404

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 08:42:34 am »
The minutes are up!
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22. SC.1 was informed that ECE/TRANS/SC.1/2019/1, the amendment proposal submitted by Hungary to Annex I of the Agreement to extend E66 from Székesfehérvár (Hungary) to Szolnok (Hungary), was withdrawn in light of a similar proposal which was accepted by SC.1 at its 111th session, and which entered into force on 6 December 2013 (per Depositary Notification C.N.562. 2013.TREATIES-XI.B.28).

So a total damp squib then. As expected.

----

However, this next paragraph is interesting, but not relevant for anything really.
Quote
23. In light of the ITC 2030 Strategy action of promoting the accession by non-ECE member States to the UN legal instruments, the secretariat drew attention to article 5 of the Agreement. SC.1 discussed the matter, and SC.1 members agreed to consult their capitals on whether it would be appropriate to open the Agreement to accession by non-ECE member States, and to revert on this at the next session.
The following ECE countries still haven't ratified the AGR, despite having E roads, but hasn't chased them up (and Central Asia got given E roads after the break-up of the USSR): Austria (signed the agreement), Estonia, Ireland, Kyrgyzstan, Spain, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, UK (signed the agreement), Uzbekistan

The following ECE countries have no E roads (and unsurprisingly they mostly have ignored it): Albania (ratified 2006), Andorra, Canada, Cyprus, Iceland, Israel, Liechtenstein, Malta, Monaco, San Marino, USA

But the Special Committee will now investigate getting other countries to sign up and extend the network there.  :pan:

The following non-ECE countries border ECE countries with E Roads. Those marked with a star have an E road ending their border and are surely the prime target for this expansion:
Afghanistan*, China*, Iran*, Iraq*, Mongolia, Morocco, North Korea, Syria*, Vatican City

For completeness, the following non-ECE countries border ECE countries without E Roads:
Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Mexico, Syria

It would be interesting to know why they didn't just dismiss it as pointless right away. Because there seems no reason for opening up access. Asian Highways cover a lot of the potential expansion options (crossing the border into Turkey and the former USSR), North America has the pan-American Highway and no interest in E roads. Israel doesn't seem bothered by E Roads and Syria wouldn't consider signing a treaty for the purpose of designating a road to Israel. Maybe, just maybe, Iran could have some in it's NW to deal with the Armenian closed borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan issue - but Asian highways cover that.

Offline michih

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 12:35:45 pm »
Sorry, I don't get it. Do I need to change anything? I think it's fine as it is in HB, isn't it?

About extension... E means European. (UN)ECE means (United Nations) Economic Commission for Europe. Why are USA, Canada and the Asians members? It makes no sense at all. The possible extension is as stupid as the whole club already is.

Offline si404

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Re: Hungary E66
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 04:21:36 am »
Sorry, I don't get it. Do I need to change anything? I think it's fine as it is in HB, isn't it?
Nothing has changed on paper. The route might be slightly outdated on the ground with bypasses.

Quote
(UN)ECE means (United Nations) Economic Commission for Europe. Why are USA, Canada and the Asians members? It makes no sense at all.
Asia is
1) the attempted Europeanisation of Turkey (it remains an EU candidate, as it has for 20 years. But David Cameron's 2016 policy u-turn meant for a UK audience made clear that it wasn't going to happen and so Erdogan gave up the pretence of being a Western democracy).
2) the former USSR all succeeding into membership on break-up
3) Cyprus has long counted as culturally Europe, despite being geographically Asian.
4) Israel was allowed in after the rest of ESCWA were at-best completely apathetic to it (and Morocco and Mauritania are in that club, as well as Sudan, Libya and Tunisia - because it's not about "Western Asia" but about "Greater Arabia")

The US is in as they are in 3 of the 5 Economic Commissions (not Africa, nor "Western Asia"). The UK and France are similarly in the same 3 - privilege and power.

Canada is in because it fitted better there than "Latin America and the Caribbean" (though it's in that too) - it is and was a developed Western power, rather than a developing country. That said, as well as France and the UK, the obvious cultural partners of Spain and Portugal, and the Netherlands that have land the Caribbean, UNECLAC has Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Italy, Germany, and Norway as members.

But the inclusive, rather than Euro-quasi-nationalism, approach to membership still doesn't really explain why the southern -stans gained E roads (them and Armenia are the only countries without territory in Europe that have them) when they haven't signed or ratified the Agreement that defines E Roads. Or why this treaty might want to extend to non-members.
Quote
The possible extension is as stupid as the whole club already is.
Other stuff from the ECE extends, because the ECE produces decent standards and protocols that are typically ahead of other Economic Commissions due to being long-developed countries, rather than developing/newly-developed. The last four countries to ratify the UNECE 'Vienna' Convention on Road Traffic of 8 November 1968 were Myanmar (2019), Cabo Verde (2018), UK (2018, though signed in 1968) and Saudi Arabia (2016). There's not an Asian, Arab, African or American equivalent as they don't need to reinvent the wheel, so they ratify this one.

And even the EU, who were created to duplicate a lot of ECE functions (and go further) and who's ruling bureaucracy seeks to supplant Geneva with Brussels, wrote into the Japanese trade deal that Japan should implement more ECE protocols. Norwegian politicians (trying to persuade a population who want neither to either join the EU, or to leave the EEA) talk of a fax machine from Brussels telling them regulations they have to adopt, but most of those sent to EFTA countries originate in Geneva and the ECE and get faxed to Brussels (or Strasbourg, or wherever the Eurocracy is that week) for rubber stamping.

It's not irrelevant, it's just ignored. But extending the AGR makes zero sense - as you said the E stands for Europe, and the network already stretches the definition of that. And, as I said, there's other UNEC regional international networks that make it pointless.