Author Topic: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)  (Read 331 times)

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Offline neroute2

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Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« on: December 03, 2019, 07:26:01 pm »
PowPlaRd is a Great River Road spur that can replace a shaping point.

BriBypRd is an important intersection, being the direct route to the Mississippi River bridge and the point where the Great River Road leaves IL 3.

IL 3: FortKasRd -> ShaTr

One more point on IL 3 at NewPoagRd

Also on IL 150 is RanSt (if that's the correct name).

IL 96 at OldHwy57
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:09:55 pm by neroute2 »

Offline neroute2

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Re: IL 3, 150, 96 missing points for Great River Road tourism
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2019, 02:00:16 pm »
More missing points on other routes:

IL 164 at 1350E

IL 92: CR59 -> CRTT_W and add CRTT_E

Offline neroute2

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MN: missing points for Great River Road travelers
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2019, 08:24:30 pm »
MN 55: 46thSt
MN 27: CR213
MN 115: CR213
MN 371 Bus: LauSt

Offline neroute2

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IA: Great River Road waypoints
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2019, 11:16:55 pm »
US 136: 4thSt

US 52: DeKSt

Offline froggie

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 11:09:22 am »
I have merged Dan's threads into a single topic that I think warrants further discussion given it's multi-state in scope.  Are GRR waypoints something we should revise the relevant route files to include en-masse?

There's been discussion in other threads about eventually including the GRR itself, but that's a ways down the road (pun intended).

Offline oscar

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 12:57:33 pm »
Have there been requests for those points from GRR travelers? Would Dan be one of those travelers?

Offline neroute2

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 04:39:35 pm »
These 14 points across four states are the only ones I could find in those states. All are major enough roads (with the possible exception of the spurs).

Offline oscar

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 06:34:47 pm »
The route sets in those states are among the oldest in the CHM/TM system. The team members maintaining those sets have done so from the beginning. If in all those years no GRR or other traveler needing those points has asked for their addition, ISTM their addition is a low priority.

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2019, 06:52:39 pm »
In my PA work, I have automatically added points at any crossroad that is a part of Pittsburgh's belt system.  While this is definitely low priority, it seems similar in nature to me.

Offline neroute2

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2019, 07:20:06 pm »
The route sets in those states are among the oldest in the CHM/TM system. The team members maintaining those sets have done so from the beginning. If in all those years no GRR or other traveler needing those points has asked for their addition, ISTM their addition is a low priority.
There's so much hot garbage I found in those states when looking at the GRR (just one minor example). But if this is the sort of thing I can expect when reporting issues, it's not worth my while.

Offline Duke87

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 08:25:57 pm »
There's so much hot garbage I found in those states when looking at the GRR (just one minor example). But if this is the sort of thing I can expect when reporting issues, it's not worth my while.

We appreciate reporting of any hot garbage - i.e. anything that is clearly and objectively "wrong" - so that it can be addressed.

That said, there are established guidelines as to where waypoints are needed. It's perfectly fine to suggest that waypoints outside of these guidelines be added if there is some reasonable argument to be made in favor of doing so, but since their inclusion isn't explicitly required it's not unreasonable for such suggestions to see some discussion as to their merit.


Regarding the GRR intersection points specifically, I think it's perfectly reasonable to add them. Whether or not the GRR itself ultimately ends up being mapped, a user may still have use for them.

As for this counterargument to that...
The route sets in those states are among the oldest in the CHM/TM system. The team members maintaining those sets have done so from the beginning. If in all those years no GRR or other traveler needing those points has asked for their addition, ISTM their addition is a low priority.

I'm going to point out that just because no one has explicitly requested these points doesn't mean no one would benefit from their addition. Especially in the CHM days, it was well established that only contributors were entitled to make requests for specific points. Anyone else requesting one would usually have their request denied due to a desire to keep the number of points down on account of server resource constraints.

Hell, even as a contributor now, there are numerous places in my travels where I left a route (or turned around) at a location that isn't a waypoint and I typically just use the nearest one rather than bothering someone to add a point at an otherwise insignificant place just for my sake.

And this is to say nothing of the users who never come on to the forum at all and may not even be aware that requesting a point is a thing they can do.

We know that traveling the Great River Road is a thing some number of people have done and/or have plans to do, and without exhaustively surveying our userbase we can't assert that this doesn't matter to anyone.



...all that said, if the maintainers of the affected states have other things they'd rather prioritize over this (such as addressing the aforementioned hot garbage), that's also understandable.

Offline osu-lsu

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 09:11:15 pm »
If neroute2 wants to work on GRR waypoints, help out reviewing Arkansas & Louisiana.

Offline oscar

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 09:24:18 pm »
If neroute2 wants to work on GRR waypoints, help out reviewing Arkansas & Louisiana.

He's working on Arkansas already.

Offline mapcat

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 11:14:23 pm »
Given that the Great River Road is a signed tourist route that promotes itself to leisure travellers, I think it's reasonable to add these points.
Clinched:

Offline neroute2

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Re: Great River Road waypoints (larger discussion)
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2019, 06:54:56 am »
If neroute2 wants to work on GRR waypoints, help out reviewing Arkansas & Louisiana.

He's working on Arkansas already.

I'm almost done with Arkansas (did all the state numbered routes, now checking the U.S. Routes) and can do Louisiana next, but it's already marked as being reviewed by cl94. But I see he's only done a bit of LA 1.