Author Topic: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)  (Read 2013 times)

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Offline michih

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Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« on: August 10, 2016, 03:49:48 pm »
The system is drafted and ready for peer-review now.

I will plot the routes of the future tier 4 system soon but I have some questions first :)

---------------------------------------------------------------

"autb.csv" is a draft of Austrian "Landesstraßen B".
They are formerly "Bundesstraßen" (federal roads) but administrated by the states since 2002-04-01.
"Landesstraßen B" have the designation "B" but Vorarlberg uses "L".
Vienna calls them "Hauptstraße B" with "B" designation.

Source:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fensystem_in_%C3%96sterreich#Landesstra.C3.9Fe_B_und_Hauptstra.C3.9Fe_B

A full list of current "Landesstraßen B" is listed in the navigation block "ehemalige Bundesstraßen in Österreich".

There are many Landesstraßen B for a small country like Austria but they are often very short roads. Sure enough, it THE tier 4 system of Austria!

All Landesstraßen B have an additional name, e.g. B1 is called "Wiener Straße" or B2 is called "Waldviertler Straße". It's usually the name of the city or region at the end of the road, the name of a lake or valley or anything else (B48 Erdöl Straße = petroleum road or B115 Eisen Straße = iron road). The usage of these names is quite common in Austria but only the numbers are signed on shields.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I think the name should be displayed in the Highway Browser. For that reason, I've added them to the csv draft file but I'm not sure which column is the correct one. I used "Banner" but I think it should be "AltRouteNames", shouldn't it?

How are these columns displayed, are there examples of other routes using these columns?

The route and file names begin with B, e.g. B1  or aut.b001. The Vorarlberg routes will begin with L though, e.g. L190 or aut.l190.wpt. Any objections?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 04:14:35 am by michih »

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2016, 05:18:31 pm »
I think the name should be displayed in the Highway Browser.
Yes.
Quote
For that reason, I've added them to the csv draft file but I'm not sure which column is the correct one. I used "Banner" but I think it should be "AltRouteNames", shouldn't it?
They should go in the Name (autb_con.csv) or City (autb.csv) fields.

The Banner field is for things like 'Spur', 'Business', 'Alternate', etc (hence why I would say 'AST' belongs in there) and becomes part of what you put in the .list files. eg US85BusSme would take 'Route' 'Banner' and 'Abbrev' to make a unique route name to put into .list files.

AltRouteNames is for when a route is renumbered or absorbs another route. It doesn't display, but it means that, say, you have clinched part of R6 in Czechia and it's now part of D6, you don't have to have changed your list file to see it clinched. Or where segments of the A16 in Switzerland have gradually merged together - A16Bon and A16Bur were separate routes that have been joined up with, and absorbed by, the plain vanilla A16. People's "CHE A16Bur 1 2" entries on their .list files will be processed as clinching A16 between exits 1 and 2.

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 05:25:07 am »
Got it. Thanks :)

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 05:33:24 pm »
Why is the Austrian B108 not represented on its entire length?

It is :). Landesstraßen B are state-owned but the B108 extension is a private toll road, please refer to German wikipedia. Open the "info box" on the right and click on "Straßenverlauf --> Ausklappen" (Extend course of the road).

Quote
Weiter auf Felbertauern-Mautstraße
Matrei in Osttirol 980 m ü. A.

It says that B108 begins in Matrei and is continued by the toll road.

Another quote from the article text:

Quote
Die Südrampe führt dann durch das Tauerntal bis nach Matrei, wo es in das Iseltal mündet. Hier endet auch der private Teil der Strecke und es beginnt die B 108, die bis nach Lienz weiterführt.

--> Here, the private section of the road ends and B108 begins.


Nevertheless, I'm happy about the question b/c B107 (Großglocknerstraße) and B188 (Silvrettastraße) have the same problem. All are pass roads and pass roads are typical "tourist" routes we love to map...

Maybe we could draft a "Road passes of the (Austrian) Alps" tier 5 system similar to cannss or gbrtr?

It could be based on:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_P%C3%A4sse_in_%C3%96sterreich
or
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Alpenp%C3%A4sse

Any ideas or objections?


btw: autb should be completed now. The remaining routes should be online with the next site update. The system is close to getting "preview" status :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 05:38:18 pm by michih »

Offline cinx

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 05:54:57 pm »
^^Thanks for the reply :)
I was asking because the Felbertauern Strasse is a transit road (gut ausgebaut), not at all just a tourist road (that's the Großglocknerstraße), I drove there some years ago.
From what I remember you had to pay for the tunnel, not really for the whole street...

You say "autb should be completed now", what about B180+ roads? Are they not tier4? Or only that we have to wait for the next update?
I drove for example the B186 only 2 weeks ago.

Would be nice to add those mountain passes aswell :)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 07:18:30 pm by cinx »

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 03:14:31 am »
^^Thanks for the reply :)

You're welcome.

Quote
I was asking because the Felbertauern Strasse is a transit road (gut ausgebaut), not at all just a tourist road (that's the Großglocknerstraße), I drove there some years ago.

Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B". There are also some "important" roads in DEU or CHE which are not part of our tier 1, tier 2 (aut only) or tier 4 systems because they are owned and maintained by other authorities or because they are spurs only.

Quote
From what I remember you had to pay for the tunnel, not really for the whole street...

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felbertauern_Stra%C3%9Fe

The private toll road has a length of about 38km (formerly 36.3km), B108 is 27.4km. In total, the Felbertauern Straße has a length of formerly 63.7km (the article does not indicate the actual length of about 65km).

The article says:
Quote
Die Maut für die Nutzung der Privatstraße wird nur beim Passieren des Südportals des Felbertauerntunnels und somit nur für seine Durchquerung eingehoben.

--> The usage of the private road is only charged when passing the southern portal of the tunnel.

Quote
You say "autb should be completed now", what about B180+ roads? Are they not tier4? Or only that we have to wait for the next update?
I drove for example the B186 only 2 weeks ago.

Yep, the site update run about 5 hours after your post :)

Quote
Would be nice to add those mountain passes aswell :)

Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.

btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph?

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 04:43:14 am »
Question about autb csv files:

Arlbergstraße and Lechtalstraße are in Vorarlberg (with L prefix) and Tirol (with B prefix). The longer segment is each in Tirol. For that reason, ".list name" is B197 or B198. Is it possible to show "L197" and "L198" additionaly in the "Route Name" column of the HB?

It's currently displayed:
B197 (Arlbergstraße)

I'd like to have:
B197/L197 (Arlbergstraße)

Is it possible to enter "B197/L197" in the route column of the csv files? Any disadvantage?

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 08:17:03 am »
Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B".
Is it signed as such? ownership doesn't matter as much as signage.
Quote
Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.
Disaster?
Quote
btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph?
cansph is a tier 4 system that its European equivalent would be a system with a few tier 4 roads from several countries. I debated doing something similar and had TM started a couple of years earlier there would have been this.

A tier 5 system 'Select other European roads' (eursor)? What roads are you thinking of adding? I've got a handful of short GB ones (non-tourist routes).

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 09:14:21 am »
Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B".
Is it signed as such? ownership doesn't matter as much as signage.

I never drove the road and GSV is not available there. I couldn't find any pics on wikipedia showing a sign but the article says that there's an internal number "P1" which is sometimes used, e.g. in news articles. B108 is indicated on GM but not on OSM or BM. GM does not indicate B107 and B188 which are similar routes like I've mentioned before.

Quote
Quote
Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.
Disaster?

Germans sometimes say: "Er ist der 'master of desaster'!" ("He is the 'master of desaster' !). It means that the person is responsible or should be involved to any discussion about this issue. It sounds negative but it isn't.

Quote
Quote
btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph?
cansph is a tier 4 system that its European equivalent would be a system with a few tier 4 roads from several countries. I debated doing something similar and had TM started a couple of years earlier there would have been this.

A tier 5 system 'Select other European roads' (eursor)? What roads are you thinking of adding? I've got a handful of short GB ones (non-tourist routes).

I think about my favorite topic "ugly gaps". Roads which are tier 4 till the border but the continous road of the neighboring country has a lower classification while it has the same importance. There are many b/n DEU/AUT, AUT/CHE, CHE/FRA, DEU/AUT,... Or gaps b/n tier 1 and tier 4 routes which are do not fulfil eursf standard.

I'd prefer eursor but eurap (Alps passes) could be mapped completely because there's a reference list (see my links above) and less discussion.


Edit: I forgot the most important "gaps", the alps passes mentioned above and roads like St2622 north of Passau (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.688467&lon=13.423233), St2580 Flughafentangente Ost (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.335399&lon=11.866136), L76 south of Berlin (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.367424&lon=13.402977) which closes the gap b/n eursf L40 and B96a or Autobahnzubringer Backnang (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.982477&lon=9.325751). I don't think about former German B roads et cetera ;).
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 09:32:25 am by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2016, 04:17:25 am »
System is ready for peer-review now: tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=autb.

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 09:21:39 am »
B1 - fine (but maybe add more points in Wien)
B1a - fine
B1b - point for Muldenstrasse (GSJ southbound and links to A7)
B2 - fine
B2AST - fine
B3 - more points for the A7 area junctions
B3Wie - L8_N -> move slightly and treat both L8 junctions as one.
B3a - fine
B3b - fine
B3c - fine
B4 - fine
B5 - fine
B6 - fine
B7 - fine
B8 - fine
B8a - fine
B8aSus - fine
B9 - fine

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 03:01:07 pm »
B10 - add point for P71; does it reach the border?
B11 - add points at either end of unsigned B11b
B12 - fine
B12a - fine
B12b - fine
B13 - fine
B13a - fine
B14 - fine
B14a - fine
B14b - fine
B15 - fine
B15a - fine
B16 - fine
B17 - fine
B18 - fine
B19 - fine
B19a - fine
B19z - fine

Offline michih

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2017, 03:11:38 pm »
Routes from my early days :)

B10 - add point for P71; does it reach the border?

Of course, it does NOT reach the border. I had drafted the routes strictly according to wikipedia.... Open "Ausklappen" in the box on the right...

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1455/commits/5ddb52a5735a0952f8bd5ac9ca9165e142cae7e3

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2017, 09:40:18 am »
B20 - 7 -> L5213 and move onto road
B21 - fine
B21a - fine
B21b - fine
B22 - fine
B23 - fine
B24 - fine
B25 - move A1 point to roundabout; add point north of B22 for interchange
B26 - fine
B27 - fine
B28 - fine
B29 - fine
B30 - fine
B31 - fine
B32 - fine
B33 - fine
B33a - add point for roundabout?
B34 - B2/2AST -> B2/B2AST
B35 - fine
B36 - fine
B37 - point for interchange just west of L76
B37a - fine
B38 - fine
B39 - fine
B40 - fine
B41 - fine
B42 - fine
B43 - fine
B44 - fine
B45 - fine
B46 - A5_Sch -> A5; add point for L35?
B47 - fine
B48 - add point for L3039_S
B49 - fine

Offline si404

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Re: Austria Landesstraßen B (autb)
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2017, 11:50:57 am »
B50 - fine
B50a - fine
B51 - fine
B52 - fine
B53 - fine
B54 - fine
B55 - point for A2 exit 69; 4 -> KonStr
B56 - fine
B56a - fine
B57 - fine
B57a - fine
B58 - fine
B59 - fine
B60 - fine
B61 - point for B61a
B61a - add new route?
B62 - fine
B63 - point for old route to match the B56 points, point for interchange south of L235
B63a - fine
B64 - fine
B65 - probably ought to split either side of B319
B66 - fine
B67 - point for Anton Hermann Strasse
B67a - new alignment near B73
B67b - fine
B67c - fine
B67cLeo - fine
B68 - point for B68a
B68a - add new route?
B69 - fine
B70 - L138_N -> L138; L138_S -> L136; L137 move to roadway
B70a - fine
B70b - fine
B70d - seems to be a route near Klagenfurt
B71 - fine
B72 - fine
B73 - check whether it reaches B67; B67a_W needs changing
B74 - check whether it reaches A2
B75 - END -> End
B75Obe - fine
B76 - fine
B77 - fine
B78 - fine
B80 - fine
B80a - fine
B81 - fine
B82 - fine
B83 - fine
B84 - fine
B85 - fine
B86 - fine
B87 - fine
B88 - fine
B90 - fine
B91 - fine
B92 - fine
B93 - fine
B94 - fine
B95 - fine
B96 - fine
B97 - fine
B98 - fine
B99 - fine