Author Topic: usaca (California State Highways), preview system  (Read 8628 times)

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Offline si404

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2018, 09:19:34 am »
While I don't see anything wrong with I-10_W and I-10_E, might I-10(16B) and I-10(93) work?
By the CHM rules, as CA60 is an exit-numbered route, they should be 16B(10) and 93(10). But it's really dealers choice between any of the labelling options.

Offline si404

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2018, 09:22:00 am »
For a route having two distinct exits on its own mainline, it's obnoxious that CalTrans opts to make CA 259 a hidden designation and sign it only as 'To CA 210' northbound, and more obnoxiously, as 'I-215' opposed to 'To I-215' from CA 210.
Shame it doesn't have a name for usasf.

Offline yakra

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #137 on: May 17, 2018, 11:28:15 am »
By the CHM rules, as CA60 is an exit-numbered route, they should be 16B(10) and 93(10).
Not quite: while it is an exit-numbered route, those are not exit-numbered points.
With no actual exit-numbers at these points, we instead fall back on "Intersections with visibly numbered highways" here.
Then, it's on to the rule about "If an exit numbered highway is a cross road twice, exit numbers in parentheses can be used to distinguish them."

But it's really dealers choice between any of the labelling options.
There's no "dealer's choice" here -- the manual says to "Choose the first type that applies."

For example:
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/MI/usai/mi.i475.wpt
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:30:20 am by yakra »

Offline Bickendan

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #138 on: May 17, 2018, 02:23:03 pm »
For a route having two distinct exits on its own mainline, it's obnoxious that CalTrans opts to make CA 259 a hidden designation and sign it only as 'To CA 210' northbound, and more obnoxiously, as 'I-215' opposed to 'To I-215' from CA 210.
Shame it doesn't have a name for usasf.
I believe it's the northernmost portion of the San Bernardino Freeway.

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2018, 03:46:27 pm »
For a route having two distinct exits on its own mainline, it's obnoxious that CalTrans opts to make CA 259 a hidden designation and sign it only as 'To CA 210' northbound, and more obnoxiously, as 'I-215' opposed to 'To I-215' from CA 210.
Shame it doesn't have a name for usasf.
I believe it's the northernmost portion of the San Bernardino Freeway.

I don't think so. The San Bernadino Freeway runs west-east, in the San Bernadino area along part of I-10 which is well south of CA 259. As far as I can tell, 259 has no name (which fits into my "glorified ramps" theory above).

I think even if it had a name, we'd be really straining here to include in usasf a route that is a numbered state highway, which would be in usaca if it had route number markers.

If we were going to stretch anything here, it should be our unsigned routes rule, based on that the route had route number markers about a decade ago, and the route number is shown on callbox signs (assuming that any callboxes remain on that route, since nowadays almost everybody has a cellphone). But CA 259 is just a crummy one mile long, hardly worth the trouble.

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #140 on: May 17, 2018, 04:14:36 pm »
I-10(16B) and I-10(93) seconded. (Thirded?)

I'll add this to my queue. Also, Bickendan's suggested point addition to CA 1 in Santa Monica. I think CA 1 in Santa Barbara County needs a relabel for the point called 224 (looks like a fictitious exit number), and the corresponding point on CA 135.

Quote
Also, I-215(33) and pals -> 33(215) and pals.

I'm not yet on board for that part, which would need to be applied system-wide and probably to some active routes in California as well. Later.

Offline Bickendan

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #141 on: May 17, 2018, 09:26:14 pm »
For a route having two distinct exits on its own mainline, it's obnoxious that CalTrans opts to make CA 259 a hidden designation and sign it only as 'To CA 210' northbound, and more obnoxiously, as 'I-215' opposed to 'To I-215' from CA 210.
Shame it doesn't have a name for usasf.
I believe it's the northernmost portion of the San Bernardino Freeway.

I don't think so. The San Bernadino Freeway runs west-east, in the San Bernadino area along part of I-10 which is well south of CA 259. As far as I can tell, 259 has no name (which fits into my "glorified ramps" theory above).

I think even if it had a name, we'd be really straining here to include in usasf a route that is a numbered state highway, which would be in usaca if it had route number markers.

If we were going to stretch anything here, it should be our unsigned routes rule, based on that the route had route number markers about a decade ago, and the route number is shown on callbox signs (assuming that any callboxes remain on that route, since nowadays almost everybody has a cellphone). But CA 259 is just a crummy one mile long, hardly worth the trouble.
IIRC, the SBD Freeway runs east-west mostly along I-10 from US 101 to I-215, then north-south along I-215 to at least CA 259. I'll need to verify if CA 259 is part of the SBD on cahighways.org.

Offline Bickendan

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #142 on: May 17, 2018, 09:30:39 pm »
I-10(16B) and I-10(93) seconded. (Thirded?)

I'll add this to my queue. Also, Bickendan's suggested point addition to CA 1 in Santa Monica. I think CA 1 in Santa Barbara County needs a relabel for the point called 224 (looks like a fictitious exit number), and the corresponding point on CA 135.

Quote
Also, I-215(33) and pals -> 33(215) and pals.

I'm not yet on board for that part, which would need to be applied system-wide and probably to some active routes in California as well. Later.
I'm looking for CalTrans contact info to inquire about CA 1 '224', CA 60 '76', CA 126 '13', and CA 259. Unlike WSDOT and ODOT, CalTrans doesn't have a general inquiries email address, forcing me to find a contact person in the respective divisions.

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #143 on: May 17, 2018, 10:01:48 pm »
]I'm looking for CalTrans contact info to inquire about CA 1 '224', CA 60 '76', CA 126 '13', and CA 259. Unlike WSDOT and ODOT, CalTrans doesn't have a general inquiries email address, forcing me to find a contact person in the respective divisions.

Unless you have reason to think CA1(224) and CA60(76) are signed in the field (I don't recall seeing the latter when I was there last summer; my travels didn't take me to CA 1), since they aren't in CalNexus I see no reason to wait on my changes.

Offline Bickendan

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #144 on: May 29, 2018, 07:48:12 pm »
Point request for Wheeler Ave on CA 66 in San Dimas, and a synchronization to US 66 Hist Azusa.
Looks like CA 2 along Santa Monica Blvd isn't synced to US 66 Hist Hollywood.

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #145 on: May 29, 2018, 08:36:31 pm »
Point request for Wheeler Ave on CA 66 in San Dimas, and a synchronization to US 66 Hist Azusa.
Looks like CA 2 along Santa Monica Blvd isn't synced to US 66 Hist Hollywood.

Wheeler Ave. point added to local copy of CA 66, to be pulled in once I've caught up with cansk peer review or I make some other pull request.

I'm doing nothing to synch with historic routes in CA. Someone else can synch them to usaca (and active routes in CA, which I was still working on when the historic routes were rolled out) once I'm finished with usaca. Besides, parts of CA 2 have been relinquished, and might get removed from the HB, so that's another reason not to try to synch with the corresponding historic route.

Offline neroute2

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usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2018, 10:14:06 pm »
These are almost all places where I entered or left the route (hence their addition would make my log more accurate).

CA1:
[CA9]
MisSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.97684&lon=-122.03185
(old alignment and route makes a turn)
[YouAve DimLn DavAve]
SwaRd_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.02857&lon=-122.21639
(old alignment)
[SwaRd] -> SwaRd_N
[x110-111 GazCrkRd x113]
BeanHolRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.22208&lon=-122.40624
(old alignment)
[x114 PesCrkRd CA84 X378976]
StaRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.33761&lon=-122.39418
(old alignment)
[TunCrkRd]

CA17:
[x20]
GleDr http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.11986&lon=-121.97600
(awesome old alignment, worth a drive if you're in the area)
OldSanCruzHwy http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.12781&lon=-121.97587
(old alignment)
[CA35]

CA17BusSco: are GraCrkRd and CA17(5) not the same interchange, hence should have only one point? I came southbound on Glenwood Drive and turned right on Scotts Valley Drive, and all I missed of the southbound route was the exit 5 offramp.

CA26:
[SanGulRd]
RaiFlatRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.38906&lon=-120.52724
(probably more important than the listed roads in this area)
[PineSt x88 HigRd x96]
DefGraRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.41885&lon=-120.55914
(old alignment of the county road that became SR 26)
[JoyRd]

CA35:
[GistRd]
BlaRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.20548&lon=-122.04832
(signed for Los Gatos, and location of a temporary closure to through traffic)
[OldSumRd]

CA39:
[LinAve]
CreAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.83938&lon=-117.99546
GraAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=33.84549&lon=-117.99784
(access to/from Knott's Berry Farm; OSM's name "Paper Street" for Grand Avenue appears to be bullshit)
[LaPalAve]

US40HisRos:
[KingRd]
RipRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.82651&lon=-121.19041
[PenRd]
EngColWay http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.85133&lon=-121.16450
SisRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.85222&lon=-121.16358
CalRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.86576&lon=-121.15188
(all parts of the original Lincoln Highway alignment)
[OldStaHwy]

US40HisAub:
[HighSt_S]
LinWay_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.89957&lon=-121.06995
[CA49_N]
LinWay_N http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.90383&lon=-121.06647
[CA49_S]
(old Lincoln Highway)

CA49:
[OldCA49_N]
NewChiRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.44074&lon=-120.85485
(paved through road into the hills)
[CA16]

CA82:
[Bro]
TroDr http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.59454&lon=-122.38321
(connects to I-280)
[MilAve]

CA84:
[TriRd]
KinMtnRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.42606&lon=-122.26620
(paved scenic route to the coast, certainly more important than TriRd)
[CanRd]

CA88:
[CHJ12] (shouldn't this be CRJ12?)
LibRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.23605&lon=-121.05106
(straight shot west to SR 99)
[VilDr]
...
[CA26]
DefGraRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.43170&lon=-120.57195
(paved cutoff to SR 26)
[x30-31 SugPineDr]

CA193:
[GoldHillRd X167946]
OldStaHwy_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.87650&lon=-121.13248
(old Lincoln Highway)
[TayRd]
Also, are OphRd and I-80 not two points at the same interchange?

CA193Geo:
[CamLn]
GarVlyRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.81634&lon=-120.82226
(paved cutoff, apparently an old alignment of SR 193?)
[ShooFlyRd]
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 10:16:27 pm by neroute2 »

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #147 on: June 25, 2018, 05:51:38 am »
I'll get to these later -- you caught me on my way out of town for an extended road trip.  But a few notes:


...

US40HisRos:
[KingRd]
RipRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.82651&lon=-121.19041
[PenRd]
EngColWay http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.85133&lon=-121.16450
SisRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.85222&lon=-121.16358
CalRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.86576&lon=-121.15188
(all parts of the original Lincoln Highway alignment)
[OldStaHwy]

US40HisAub:
[HighSt_S]
LinWay_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.89957&lon=-121.06995
[CA49_N]
LinWay_N http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.90383&lon=-121.06647
[CA49_S]
(old Lincoln Highway)

I'm not developing or maintaining the historic routes in California. That task probably should wait until usaca is activated.

Quote
CA88:
[CHJ12] (shouldn't this be CRJ12?)

California has a county highway system (usually signed with blue pentagons), and locally-designated county roads (usually unsigned except with street blades). To avoid confusion, I'm referring to the county highways as CH___, and county roads as Rd___ (which is typically how they're marked). There are still a few CR___ waypoints, which I'm changing to CH___ or Rd___ when I find them.
 
Quote
CA193:

...

Also, are OphRd and I-80 not two points at the same interchange?

That was my inclination at first, but OphRd was added back in as a separate point because it's where US40HisAub peels away from CA 193.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:54:45 am by oscar »

Offline neroute2

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #148 on: June 25, 2018, 11:50:24 am »
California has a county highway system (usually signed with blue pentagons), and locally-designated county roads (usually unsigned except with street blades). To avoid confusion, I'm referring to the county highways as CH___, and county roads as Rd___ (which is typically how they're marked). There are still a few CR___ waypoints, which I'm changing to CH___ or Rd___ when I find them.
Can you show me an example of a route marked "CH x"? "Road x" is not a normal county route system, rather one direction of a grid with "Avenue x" perpendicular.

Here is how one county signs its locally-designated county roads:
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 11:52:55 am by neroute2 »

Offline oscar

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Re: usaca (California State Highways), preview system
« Reply #149 on: June 25, 2018, 07:44:40 pm »
California has a county highway system (usually signed with blue pentagons), and locally-designated county roads (usually unsigned except with street blades). To avoid confusion, I'm referring to the county highways as CH___, and county roads as Rd___ (which is typically how they're marked). There are still a few CR___ waypoints, which I'm changing to CH___ or Rd___ when I find them.
Can you show me an example of a route marked "CH x"? "Road x" is not a normal county route system, rather one direction of a grid with "Avenue x" perpendicular.

No routes are marked "CH x", just as it's rare for Interstate routes to be marked "I-x".  CH- and I- are just abbreviations for the relevant route system. The typical County Highway blue pentagon marker has only the number and the county name:



The county roads that have numbers (most do not, such as in the example you posted), but are not marked with blue pentagons like the ones in the County Signed Route program, don't follow any particular numbering scheme. Some of them are indeed called "Road X" or "Ave Y", as in this example from Madera County (which I photographed only because that county really loves its -half roads/avenues):



See https://www.cahighways.org/county.html for more info.