Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Completed Highway Systems Threads => Topic started by: michih on August 10, 2016, 03:49:48 pm
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The system is drafted and ready for peer-review now.
I will plot the routes of the future tier 4 system soon but I have some questions first :)
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"autb.csv (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/AUT/autb/autb.csv)" is a draft of Austrian "Landesstraßen B".
They are formerly "Bundesstraßen" (federal roads) but administrated by the states since 2002-04-01.
"Landesstraßen B" have the designation "B" but Vorarlberg uses "L".
Vienna calls them "Hauptstraße B" with "B" designation.
Source:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fensystem_in_%C3%96sterreich#Landesstra.C3.9Fe_B_und_Hauptstra.C3.9Fe_B
A full list of current "Landesstraßen B" is listed in the navigation block "ehemalige Bundesstraßen in Österreich".
There are many Landesstraßen B for a small country like Austria but they are often very short roads. Sure enough, it THE tier 4 system of Austria!
All Landesstraßen B have an additional name, e.g. B1 is called "Wiener Straße" or B2 is called "Waldviertler Straße". It's usually the name of the city or region at the end of the road, the name of a lake or valley or anything else (B48 Erdöl Straße = petroleum road or B115 Eisen Straße = iron road). The usage of these names is quite common in Austria but only the numbers are signed on shields.
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I think the name should be displayed in the Highway Browser. For that reason, I've added them to the csv draft file but I'm not sure which column is the correct one. I used "Banner" but I think it should be "AltRouteNames", shouldn't it?
How are these columns displayed, are there examples of other routes using these columns?
The route and file names begin with B, e.g. B1 or aut.b001. The Vorarlberg routes will begin with L though, e.g. L190 or aut.l190.wpt. Any objections?
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I think the name should be displayed in the Highway Browser.
Yes.For that reason, I've added them to the csv draft file but I'm not sure which column is the correct one. I used "Banner" but I think it should be "AltRouteNames", shouldn't it?
They should go in the Name (autb_con.csv) or City (autb.csv) fields.
The Banner field is for things like 'Spur', 'Business', 'Alternate', etc (hence why I would say 'AST' belongs in there) and becomes part of what you put in the .list files. eg US85BusSme would take 'Route' 'Banner' and 'Abbrev' to make a unique route name to put into .list files.
AltRouteNames is for when a route is renumbered or absorbs another route. It doesn't display, but it means that, say, you have clinched part of R6 in Czechia and it's now part of D6, you don't have to have changed your list file to see it clinched. Or where segments of the A16 in Switzerland have gradually merged together - A16Bon and A16Bur were separate routes that have been joined up with, and absorbed by, the plain vanilla A16. People's "CHE A16Bur 1 2" entries on their .list files will be processed as clinching A16 between exits 1 and 2.
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Got it. Thanks :)
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Why is the Austrian B108 not represented on its entire length?
It is :). Landesstraßen B are state-owned but the B108 extension is a private toll road, please refer to German wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felbertauern_Stra%C3%9Fe). Open the "info box" on the right and click on "Straßenverlauf --> Ausklappen" (Extend course of the road).
Weiter auf Felbertauern-Mautstraße
Matrei in Osttirol 980 m ü. A.
It says that B108 begins in Matrei and is continued by the toll road.
Another quote from the article text:
Die Südrampe führt dann durch das Tauerntal bis nach Matrei, wo es in das Iseltal mündet. Hier endet auch der private Teil der Strecke und es beginnt die B 108, die bis nach Lienz weiterführt.
--> Here, the private section of the road ends and B108 begins.
Nevertheless, I'm happy about the question b/c B107 (Großglocknerstraße) and B188 (Silvrettastraße) have the same problem. All are pass roads and pass roads are typical "tourist" routes we love to map...
Maybe we could draft a "Road passes of the (Austrian) Alps" tier 5 system similar to cannss (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=cannss) or gbrtr (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=gbrtr)?
It could be based on:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_P%C3%A4sse_in_%C3%96sterreich
or
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Alpenp%C3%A4sse
Any ideas or objections?
btw: autb should be completed now. The remaining routes should be online with the next site update. The system is close to getting "preview" status :)
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^^Thanks for the reply :)
I was asking because the Felbertauern Strasse is a transit road (gut ausgebaut), not at all just a tourist road (that's the Großglocknerstraße), I drove there some years ago.
From what I remember you had to pay for the tunnel, not really for the whole street...
You say "autb should be completed now", what about B180+ roads? Are they not tier4? Or only that we have to wait for the next update?
I drove for example the B186 only 2 weeks ago.
Would be nice to add those mountain passes aswell :)
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^^Thanks for the reply :)
You're welcome.
I was asking because the Felbertauern Strasse is a transit road (gut ausgebaut), not at all just a tourist road (that's the Großglocknerstraße), I drove there some years ago.
Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B". There are also some "important" roads in DEU or CHE which are not part of our tier 1, tier 2 (aut only) or tier 4 systems because they are owned and maintained by other authorities or because they are spurs only.
From what I remember you had to pay for the tunnel, not really for the whole street...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felbertauern_Stra%C3%9Fe
The private toll road has a length of about 38km (formerly 36.3km), B108 is 27.4km. In total, the Felbertauern Straße has a length of formerly 63.7km (the article does not indicate the actual length of about 65km).
The article says: Die Maut für die Nutzung der Privatstraße wird nur beim Passieren des Südportals des Felbertauerntunnels und somit nur für seine Durchquerung eingehoben.
--> The usage of the private road is only charged when passing the southern portal of the tunnel.
You say "autb should be completed now", what about B180+ roads? Are they not tier4? Or only that we have to wait for the next update?
I drove for example the B186 only 2 weeks ago.
Yep, the site update run about 5 hours after your post :)
Would be nice to add those mountain passes aswell :)
Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.
btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=cansph)?
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Question about autb csv files:
Arlbergstraße (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlbergstra%C3%9Fe) and Lechtalstraße (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechtalstra%C3%9Fe) are in Vorarlberg (with L prefix) and Tirol (with B prefix). The longer segment is each in Tirol. For that reason, ".list name" is B197 or B198. Is it possible to show "L197" and "L198" additionaly in the "Route Name" column of the HB?
It's currently displayed:
B197 (Arlbergstraße)
I'd like to have:
B197/L197 (Arlbergstraße)
Is it possible to enter "B197/L197" in the route column of the csv files? Any disadvantage?
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Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B".
Is it signed as such? ownership doesn't matter as much as signage.
Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.
Disaster?
btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=cansph)?
cansph is a tier 4 system that its European equivalent would be a system with a few tier 4 roads from several countries. I debated doing something similar and had TM started a couple of years earlier there would have been this.
A tier 5 system 'Select other European roads' (eursor)? What roads are you thinking of adding? I've got a handful of short GB ones (non-tourist routes).
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Yes, it's a transit road, a private road but not a "Landesstraße B".
Is it signed as such? ownership doesn't matter as much as signage.
I never drove the road and GSV is not available there. I couldn't find any pics on wikipedia showing a sign but the article says that there's an internal number "P1" which is sometimes used, e.g. in news articles. B108 is indicated on GM but not on OSM or BM. GM does not indicate B107 and B188 which are similar routes like I've mentioned before.
Si is the 'master of desaster' for Europe. I'll wait for a response from him but any opinion is welcomed.
Disaster?
Germans sometimes say: "Er ist der 'master of desaster'!" ("He is the 'master of desaster' !). It means that the person is responsible or should be involved to any discussion about this issue. It sounds negative but it isn't.
btw: Maybe a provinicial roads tier 5 system like cansph (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=cansph)?
cansph is a tier 4 system that its European equivalent would be a system with a few tier 4 roads from several countries. I debated doing something similar and had TM started a couple of years earlier there would have been this.
A tier 5 system 'Select other European roads' (eursor)? What roads are you thinking of adding? I've got a handful of short GB ones (non-tourist routes).
I think about my favorite topic "ugly gaps". Roads which are tier 4 till the border but the continous road of the neighboring country has a lower classification while it has the same importance. There are many b/n DEU/AUT, AUT/CHE, CHE/FRA, DEU/AUT,... Or gaps b/n tier 1 and tier 4 routes which are do not fulfil eursf standard.
I'd prefer eursor but eurap (Alps passes) could be mapped completely because there's a reference list (see my links above) and less discussion.
Edit: I forgot the most important "gaps", the alps passes mentioned above and roads like St2622 north of Passau (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.688467&lon=13.423233), St2580 Flughafentangente Ost (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.335399&lon=11.866136), L76 south of Berlin (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.367424&lon=13.402977) which closes the gap b/n eursf L40 and B96a or Autobahnzubringer Backnang (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.982477&lon=9.325751). I don't think about former German B roads et cetera ;).
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System is ready for peer-review now: tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=autb (http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=autb).
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B1 - fine (but maybe add more points in Wien)
B1a - fine
B1b - point for Muldenstrasse (GSJ southbound and links to A7)
B2 - fine
B2AST - fine
B3 - more points for the A7 area junctions
B3Wie - L8_N -> move slightly and treat both L8 junctions as one.
B3a - fine
B3b - fine
B3c - fine
B4 - fine
B5 - fine
B6 - fine
B7 - fine
B8 - fine
B8a - fine
B8aSus - fine
B9 - fine
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B10 - add point for P71; does it reach the border?
B11 - add points at either end of unsigned B11b
B12 - fine
B12a - fine
B12b - fine
B13 - fine
B13a - fine
B14 - fine
B14a - fine
B14b - fine
B15 - fine
B15a - fine
B16 - fine
B17 - fine
B18 - fine
B19 - fine
B19a - fine
B19z - fine
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Routes from my early days :)
B10 - add point for P71; does it reach the border?
Of course, it does NOT reach the border. I had drafted the routes strictly according to wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapester_Stra%C3%9Fe_(%C3%96sterreich)).... Open "Ausklappen" in the box on the right...
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/1455/commits/5ddb52a5735a0952f8bd5ac9ca9165e142cae7e3
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B20 - 7 -> L5213 and move onto road
B21 - fine
B21a - fine
B21b - fine
B22 - fine
B23 - fine
B24 - fine
B25 - move A1 point to roundabout; add point north of B22 for interchange
B26 - fine
B27 - fine
B28 - fine
B29 - fine
B30 - fine
B31 - fine
B32 - fine
B33 - fine
B33a - add point for roundabout?
B34 - B2/2AST -> B2/B2AST
B35 - fine
B36 - fine
B37 - point for interchange just west of L76
B37a - fine
B38 - fine
B39 - fine
B40 - fine
B41 - fine
B42 - fine
B43 - fine
B44 - fine
B45 - fine
B46 - A5_Sch -> A5; add point for L35?
B47 - fine
B48 - add point for L3039_S
B49 - fine
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B50 - fine
B50a - fine
B51 - fine
B52 - fine
B53 - fine
B54 - fine
B55 - point for A2 exit 69; 4 -> KonStr
B56 - fine
B56a - fine
B57 - fine
B57a - fine
B58 - fine
B59 - fine
B60 - fine
B61 - point for B61a
B61a - add new route?
B62 - fine
B63 - point for old route to match the B56 points, point for interchange south of L235
B63a - fine
B64 - fine
B65 - probably ought to split either side of B319
B66 - fine
B67 - point for Anton Hermann Strasse
B67a - new alignment near B73
B67b - fine
B67c - fine
B67cLeo - fine
B68 - point for B68a
B68a - add new route?
B69 - fine
B70 - L138_N -> L138; L138_S -> L136; L137 move to roadway
B70a - fine
B70b - fine
B70d - seems to be a route near Klagenfurt
B71 - fine
B72 - fine
B73 - check whether it reaches B67; B67a_W needs changing
B74 - check whether it reaches A2
B75 - END -> End
B75Obe - fine
B76 - fine
B77 - fine
B78 - fine
B80 - fine
B80a - fine
B81 - fine
B82 - fine
B83 - fine
B84 - fine
B85 - fine
B86 - fine
B87 - fine
B88 - fine
B90 - fine
B91 - fine
B92 - fine
B93 - fine
B94 - fine
B95 - fine
B96 - fine
B97 - fine
B98 - fine
B99 - fine
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B61 - point for B61a
B61a - add new route?
B61a was opened on 17th July. Added. The construction of the remaining section to Hungary should start in spring 2018: http://www.regionews.at/newsdetail/Burgenland_Verkehrsfreigabe_B61a_Pullendorfer_Strasse-154286
B65 - probably ought to split either side of B319
I think B319 will be called B65 once the parallel S7 u/c will be opened... in 2022
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesstra%C3%9Fen_in_%C3%96sterreich#Die_300er-Nummerngruppe
Die Straßennummern B 3xx wurden einst für besonders hochrangigen Bundesstraßen B verwendet, die später durch eine Schnellstraße (S xx) ersetzt werden sollten.
--> B 3xx road numbers were used for very important trunk roads which were planned to be replaced by an expressway (S xx).
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstenfelder_Stra%C3%9Fe
Die B 319 soll künftig durch die in Planung befindliche Fürstenfelder Schnellstraße (S 7) ersetzt werden.
--> The B 319 should be replaced by the future S7.
B67a - new alignment near B73
Yep, B67a was opened two months ago: http://www.suedguertel.steiermark.at/cms/beitrag/12586325/89152595/
B68 - point for B68a
B68a - add new route?
Yep
B70d - seems to be a route near Klagenfurt
Yep, it seems that the Südring Klagenfurt was dedicated B70d in March 2017: https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/Dokumente/LgblAuth/LGBLA_KA_20170309_8/8._Kundmachung_Anlage.pdfsig
B 70d Harbacher Straße: Von der Packer Straße (B 70) westlich St. Jakob an der Straße über Harbach nach Klagenfurt (Südring) zur Loiblpaß Straße (B 91) und von dieser zur Kärntner Straße (B 83) in Klagenfurt West
B70c is also new and replaces segments of A2 and B92.
B82 Völkermarkt bypass seems to be officially called B82a but I wanna keep it as-is.
I've also compared beginning and end of the other B roads in Kärnten and they seem to be correct in the HB.
B73 - check whether it reaches B67
B74 - check whether it reaches A2
Yes to both: http://www.verkehr.steiermark.at/cms/ziel/16249034/DE/ (have to check it for other routes, e.g. B65c missing)
B 73 Kirchbacher Straße
Beginn: Graz/Liebenau, Abzweigung von der A 2, Sd Autobahn
Ende: Gralla, Einmndung in die B 67, Grazer Straße
B 74 Sulmtal Straße
Beginn: Gralla, Abzweigung von der A 9, Pyhrn Autobahn
Ende: Deutschlandsberg, Einmndung in die B 76, Radlpaß Straße
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L200 - rename file with L?
L201 - rename file with L?
L202 - rename file with L?
L203 - rename file with L?
L204 - rename file with L?
L205 - rename file with L?
B209 - fine
B210 - fine
B211 - fine
B212 - is OSM right and the B212 avoids part of Bad Voslau, heading to the A2 and junction-hopping?
B212Vos - AFAICS from mapping and de.wikipedia, this is either the mainline, or non-existant
B213 - fine
B214 - fine
B215 - fine
B216 - fine
B217 - fine
B218 - fine
B219 - fine
B220 - fine
B221 - fine
B223 - NieStr -> TinStr (it's more major)
B224 - fine
B225 - fine
B226 - fine
B226AST - fine
B227 - fine
B228 - fine
B229 - fine
B230 - fine
B303 - fine
B305 - fine
B309 - fine
B310 - fine
B311 - B178_LofW -> B178; shaping point between L213 points?
B311Lof - B178_LofN -> B178
B311AST - fine
B317 - fine
B319 - fine
B320 - fine
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http://www.verkehr.steiermark.at/cms/ziel/16249034/DE/ (have to check it for other routes, e.g. B65c missing)
Done. B65c is only a one-way street branch, opposite direction is B67. Not drafted.
B67a had to be extended up to B70 and B73 had to be truncated.
L200 - rename file with L?
No, it's just an internal name and the alphabetical order would confuse me.
B212 - is OSM right and the B212 avoids part of Bad Voslau, heading to the A2 and junction-hopping?
B212Vos - AFAICS from mapping and de.wikipedia, this is either the mainline, or non-existant
https://www.ris.bka.gv.at/GeltendeFassung.wxe?Abfrage=LrNO&Gesetzesnummer=20000792
B 212 Bad Vöslauer Straße
Guntramsdorf (B 17) - Baden - Bad Vöslau (A2) - Berndorf (B 18)
Länge in km: 23
Umlegung des Teilstückes von km 9,716 bis km 11,293
The Badener Straße in Bad Vöslau (old B212) has a lengths of 1.6km and seems to be the segemnt which is indicated to be re-allocated (Umlegung = re-allocation). I've removed the AST and routed B212 via A2 now. It took quite long to draft this route last year but I couldn't find any info. Not sure if the modification of the law was already published...
I'll activate the system now
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I've not reviewed the 1xx routes!
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... your're right... Sorry....
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B100 - fine
B105 - fine
B106 - fine
B107 - fine
B107a - fine
B108 - fine
B109 - fine
B110 - fine
B111 - fine
B113 - fine
B114 - fine
B114a - fine
B115 - fine
B115a - fine
B116 - L122_Leo is off the highway
B117 - fine
B119 - fine
B119a - fine
B120 - fine
B121 - fine
B122 - fine
B122a - fine
B123 - fine
B123a - fine
B124 - fine
B125 - fine
B126 - fine
B127 - fine
B129 - L532 point not on highway
B130 - fine
B131 - fine
B132 - fine
B133 - points for L1227_W and Flughavenstraße
B134 - fine
B135 - fine
B136 - fine
B137 - fine
B138 - fine
B139 - fine
B139b - fine
B140 - fine
B141 - fine
B141a - fine
B142 - fine
B143 - fine
B144 - B11255 -> L1255
B145 - fine
B146 - fine
B147 - fine
B148 - fine
B149 - fine
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B116 - L122_Leo is off the highway
B129 - L532 point not on highway
More than just positioned wrong but totally off (more than 100 meter).
I sometimes thought that I had moved wps in the wpt editor by accident when I've reviewed my routes. I was zoomed out, moved the map and thought that anything was changed to the route a little bit.
Sure, it can only happen when I've selected "thaw location" before but I was absolutely sure that I didn't! That's why I haven't checked the points but it seems that it really happened.... Not just the 2 wps but even more according to Si's latest reviews... Odd...
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B150 - fine
B151 - fine
B152 - fine
B153 - fine
B154 - fine
B155 - fine
B156 - fine
B156a - fine
B158 - fine
B159 - fine
B160 - fine
B161 - fine
B162 - fine
B163 - fine
B163Fla - fine
B164 - fine
B165 - fine
B166 - fine
B167 - fine
B168 - fine
B169 - fine
B170 - fine
B171 - fine
B171a - fine
B171b - fine
B171AST - fine
B172 - fine
B173 - fine
B173AST - fine
B174 - point for GSJ for Sillufer
B175 - fine
B176 - fine
B177 - fine
B178 - fine
B179 - fine
B180 - fine
B181 - fine
B182 - fine
B183 - fine
B184 - fine
B185 - fine
B186 - fine
B187 - fine
B188 - fine
L188 - change filename
B189 - B171_Ims -> B171_Imst?
L190 - change filename; point for GSJ at Felsenau
L191a - change filename; AUT/CHE -> AUT/LIE
L192 - change filename
L193 - change filename; point for L90?
B197 - fine
B198 - fine
B199 - fine
review done!