Author Topic: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten  (Read 2101 times)

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Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2020, 10:20:23 am »
Why? It corresponds to O_N
Then it should be called O_S and intersect with OFre - just like the point right next to it that makes this point superfluous.

Ok, two wps at the same location. Sure -> DEL.

Online si404

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 09:57:30 am »
æ is one character, not two!
As are the Greek characters: θ, χ and ψ (universally transliterated as th, ch and ps respectively). Similarly the ß ligature is rendered in latin basic as 'ss' (or 'sz') rather than just 's'.

On the other side of things, 'll' was a single letter (coming after 'l') rendered with 2 latin characters in Spanish until 2010. It remains a separate letter in Welsh (as are 'ch', 'dd', 'ff', 'ng', 'ph', 'rh' and 'th', though they don't have 'k', 'q' or 'z'). We've treated these as two characters for counting (and so a point 'Ffordd Pwllheli' would be 'FfoPwl'). There's also the Dutch 'IJ' (which unlike the Welsh/Spanish double-character letters sees both capitalised. And like æ they often appeared as a single character, though typing has removed that a lot more), though that's not now considered a distinct letter.
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https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#latin

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Waypoint labels may never use international characters. Instead, use the closest latin character without a diacritical mark.
It has no diacritical marks - the ligature turning a and e into one single character is not a diacritical mark. The closest single latin basic character to æ is probably 'e'*, but it always gets rendered 'ae' in latin basic, just as θ is rendered 'th'.

*Pretty much every æ (which re-entered English via Latin loanwords. In Latin, while the ligature was not a distinct letter as it is in Danish, it was a single character) is reformed to be 'e' in American English, whereas British English tends to render it 'ae' (though demon and ether are exceptions in En-UK): encyclopedia, pediatrician, medieval (archaeology is the En-US exception).

Online si404

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 10:58:45 am »
Sjælland
 - SkovVej_S -> SkovVej_Ska ? (doesn't pair with SkovVej_E, which is concurrency split, unlike this one)
 - EngVej_W -> EngVej ? (doesn't pair with EngVej_S, which is concurrency split, unlike this one)
 - FveVej -> FjeVej
 - PR57_E -> PR57_N (paired with PR57_S)
 - add KulVej_W to go with KulVej_E as it's a road to a the large settlement of Høng
 - SavyVej_S -> SaeVej_S (is Sæbyvej, so even if you render æ as 'a', it's wrong)
 - SR255_W -> SR255_S
 - OrdVej_N -> OrdVej_W (paired with OrdVej_E)
 - HojHovGade_N -> HojHovGade_W ?
 - HojHovGade_S -> HojHovGade_E ?
 - OddVej_N -> OddVej_W ?
 - PR21_N is off overbridge
 - SR155_S -> SR155_E (paired with SR155_W)
 - SR231_E -> SR231_S (paired with SR231_N)
 - BakRag_W -> BakRag_S (paired with BakRag_N)
 - SR231_S -> SR231_Mor
 - PR23_Kva -> PR23(2) ?
 - PR21_S -> PR21(19)
 - SR155 -> SR155_Hol ?
 - HorVej_W -> HorVeg_N (paired with _S)
 - SabyVej -> SabyVej_W (though really SaeVej_W)
 - HorVej_N -> HorVej_Sae
 - SkovVej_N -> SkovVej_Son
 - PR16_Kre -> PR16/211 like PR16/205 at the other end of the PR16 concurrency.
 - PR16_S -> PR16_E (paired with PR16_W)
 - SR152 -> E47/55_N or E47/152 or something
 - SkoVej_E -> SkoVej_Sko
 - SR152_N -> SR152_S (concurrency split)
 - SkoVej_W -> SkoVej_E (concurrency split)
 - SR152_S -> SR152_N (concurrency split)
 - O2_E -> O2_S (paired with O2_N)
 - BorsGade -> BorsGade_W
 - O2_S -> O2_E (paired with O2_W)
 - PR21_W -> PR21_Kob
 - SR156_E -> SR156_HedE
 - SR156_S -> SR156_HedW
 - SR156_W -> SR156_TreW
 - SR156_N -> SR156_TreE
 - PR23 -> PR21(13) (also change PR14 lavel to PR21)
 - SR155_E -> SR155_W or SR155_Ros
 - SR255_S -> SR255_W (paired with _E)
 - E47/55 -> E47/55(33)
 - SR154_S -> SR154_W
 - JunVej_E -> JunVej_Bon
 - JunVej_N -> JunVej_E
 - JunVej_S -> JunVej_W
 - JunVej_W -> JunVej_N
 - PR59_N -> PR59_SteE or _E
 - PR59_W -> PR59_SteW or leave
 - PR59_S -> PR59_Lan

One thing I don't get is that you happily town suffix some street names which you have multiple of (eg HovGade), but then don't want different 'LynVej_Abc' points so do the weird take a random other letter for one of them (so Lyngerupvej becomes LyrVej as Lyngbyvej already took LynVej. It's not wrong, but I'd have preferred LynVej_Ger and LynVej_Van)

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2020, 02:43:26 am »
æ is one character, not two!
The closest single latin basic character to æ is probably 'e'*, but it always gets rendered 'ae' in latin basic, just as θ is rendered 'th'.

Sjælland is a perfect example how we could complicate it. Should it be Sja, Sje or Sjae?

I'd like to keep Sja as-is (æ -> a).

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2020, 02:49:22 am »
One thing I don't get is that you happily town suffix some street names which you have multiple of (eg HovGade), but then don't want different 'LynVej_Abc' points so do the weird take a random other letter for one of them (so Lyngerupvej becomes LyrVej as Lyngbyvej already took LynVej. It's not wrong, but I'd have preferred LynVej_Ger and LynVej_Van)

When there are two Lyngerupvej, I use LynVej_Abc and LynVej_Def.
But Lyngerupvej and Lyngbyvej are different names and a different rule applies: https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#differentnames

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If two named cross roads have different names but would have identical labels (Milford Parkway & Millville Parkway both would be MilPkwy), either add a 4th letter to a 3-letter part of one of the labels, or choose 3 different letters for that label.

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2020, 02:55:33 am »
(doesn't pair with SkovVej_E, which is concurrency split, unlike this one)
(doesn't pair with EngVej_S, which is concurrency split, unlike this one)
(paired with PR57_S)
(paired with OrdVej_E)
(paired with SR155_W)
(paired with SR231_N)
(paired with BakRag_N)

...

Is there a rule for how to handle "pairs"?

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2020, 04:09:21 am »
About the direction suffix thing.... I usually applied the suggested changes but one or two of the last post were points in use I didn't change as suggested.

It's understable the systematic issue - and thanks for cleaning them up.

When it comes to a "signed direction" when no direction is signed, I've tended to go instinctively with whether its a rough E-W or N-S alignment and then applied that to the concurrency. Circular routes are more absolute directions (eg you had an O_S and O_E and that seemed fine to me), and if there's two concurrencies and it doesn't look silly then you can go with E-W for one, N-S for the other.

https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#split

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For the multiplex splits, add a suffix: an underscore followed by a direction letter. The direction letter should match the signed direction the concurrent route is splitting toward. US80_W in the US25 file means that US 80 heads west from US 25 at that point but is concurrent to the east.

The grey segment is just a "should" and only refers to countries like US where directions are signed.

That means, we don't have a rule for most of the review comments. Should we add the "instinctive way"? Any suggestion?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 04:12:02 am by michih »

Online si404

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2020, 02:43:12 pm »
æ is one character, not two!
The closest single latin basic character to æ is probably 'e'*, but it always gets rendered 'ae' in latin basic, just as θ is rendered 'th'.

Sjælland is a perfect example how we could complicate it. Should it be Sja, Sje or Sjae?

I'd like to keep Sja as-is (æ -> a).
Sja is obviously right whether it's 'a' or 'ae', because a third letter theta gets left as t rather than making a four-letter abbreviation. You'll note that I've not corrected labels where æ is second letter - it's a bit of a can of worms. Should note that the older systems in Denmark takes Sæletters as Sae, and Sjæletters as Sja. I can go through and do a check if you want...
Quote
For the multiplex splits, add a suffix: an underscore followed by a direction letter. The direction letter should match the signed direction the concurrent route is splitting toward. US80_W in the US25 file means that US 80 heads west from US 25 at that point but is concurrent to the east.

The grey segment is just a "should" and only refers to countries like US where directions are signed.

That means, we don't have a rule for most of the review comments. Should we add the "instinctive way"? Any suggestion?
Pretend that the road is signed with directions, and go with that. So if a roughly N-S route splits off a concurrency to the south, _S. Obviously complicated a little when there's two concurrencies with the same road...
Is there a rule for how to handle "pairs"?
No, but like the above 'instinctive way', you don't see roads signed North one way and East the other, but N-S and E-W. And so a route running concurrent should leave the concurrency in the opposite direction at either end of the concurrency.

About the direction suffix thing.... I usually applied the suggested changes but one or two of the last post were points in use I didn't change as suggested.
That's fine.

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2020, 02:55:51 pm »
Should note that the older systems in Denmark takes Sæletters as Sae, and Sjæletters as Sja. I can go through and do a check if you want...

I think it is not necessary.

Pretend that the road is signed with directions, and go with that. So if a roughly N-S route splits off a concurrency to the south, _S. Obviously complicated a little when there's two concurrencies with the same road...

That's how I drafted all systems from the beginning*. I always estimate the whole route but my reviewers (mostly you) did not always agree with that.

*When there is only one concurrency and no additional intersection - when there are only two "A123" labels.

Is there a rule for how to handle "pairs"?
No, but like the above 'instinctive way', you don't see roads signed North one way and East the other, but N-S and E-W. And so a route running concurrent should leave the concurrency in the opposite direction at either end of the concurrency.

I still prefer a rule in the manual.

Just an example where only _W and _E make sense but it is not a "concurrency pair":

Code: [Select]
D540_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.247912&lon=3.330708
D540/D977 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.254343&lon=3.362101
D540_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.256700&lon=3.369560

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2020, 03:26:22 pm »
Should note that the older systems in Denmark takes Sæletters as Sae, and Sjæletters as Sja. I can go through and do a check if you want...

Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4212

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2020, 03:29:46 pm »
Similarly the ß ligature is rendered in latin basic as 'ss' (or 'sz') rather than just 's'.

There are also ä, ö and ü. I've dealt with umlauts as one character only. ä -> a, not ae.

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2020, 06:47:02 am »
Similarly the ß ligature is rendered in latin basic as 'ss' (or 'sz') rather than just 's'.

There are also ä, ö and ü. I've dealt with umlauts as one character only. ä -> a, not ae.
Very true.

I'm leet now with post 1337

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2020, 11:03:38 am »
Just seen we have 99 systems in Preview  :o Time to try and keep that number down by reviewing the last route of this system.

Kolding
 - SR401 -> SR401_Dyb
 - SR481_E -> SR481_Gra
 - SR401_KruE -> SR401_Kru
 - SR401_KruW -> ForVej (presumably the route was changed, but this label wasn't)
 - HarVej -> HarVej_N
 - SR481_S -> SR481_E
 - SR170/481 -> SR170_Sog
 - SR170_Sko is off
 - SkaVej_S -> SteVej (both sides of point, MR runs on SkaVej)
 - O_KolS -> O_KolW (O diverges west)
 - O_KolW -> O_KolS (O diverges south) and is off
 - SR191 labels for O concurrency need changing as they refer to road names.
 - SR184_S -> SR184_E (or something, so the other two are a N-S pair)
 - SR184_W -> SR184_S
 - RydeMolVej_N -> RydeMolVej_E (or _S to _W - make pair match)
 - Lyn -> EjeVej_S (MR is on Lyngen s of point)
 - SR581 is off (also PR26), and perhaps wants a suffix on MR?
 - Dar_E -> Dam_E
 - is KliVej SR557? Need to add that route to browser if so.
 - PPR11/29_Ols -> PR11/29 (doesn't need disambiguating)
 - perhaps add a clarifying point (hidden or visible) between HotVej_W and SR596_Bje
 - JylGade_W -> NorSka or something (as route is on, rather than intersects JylGade here)
 - PR55_HalE -> PR55_HirE (not sure where Hal came from, but is obviously meant to be paired with _HirW at the other end of the Hirtshals Sondre Ringvej)

Done!

Offline michih

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Re: dnkmr: Denmark Margueritruten
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2020, 03:13:36 pm »
Thanks! :)

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4256

Activation with next site update.