Author Topic: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system  (Read 2249 times)

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Offline yakra

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2022, 10:31:22 pm »
They actually use the katakana version of the word "Bypass".
LOL figures. Works for me!
バイパス!
(...or would that be バイパス?)
グーグル翻訳  seems to like the ichiban one. :D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 10:43:46 pm by yakra »
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Offline nezinscot

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2022, 09:38:53 am »
バイパス (baipasu) is the word used.

I updated N329BypHae to use E58. 

FYI - On March 6th the entire Yonabaru bypass will open and N329BypHae and N329BypYon will then connect.

Offline nezinscot

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2022, 09:44:41 am »
I'm thinking of splitting the national highways into three systems because of the size of a single system containing everything.

jpnh     - current roads, spurs, and connections
jpnhby - bypasses
jpnhor  - old roads

If compared to the US systems, jpnhby are the Alt routes and jpnhor are the Bus routes.  jpnh and jpnhby would each have ~550 entries.  jpnhor might reach 75 entries.

Do you think this division would be preferable to having a single system of 1200 entries?

And I would like to eventually add the very extensive railway system.  Most of my and other visitors' travelling in Japan uses the railroads.

Offline michih

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2022, 10:06:28 am »
I'm thinking of splitting the national highways into three systems because of the size of a single system containing everything.

jpnh     - current roads, spurs, and connections
jpnhby - bypasses
jpnhor  - old roads

If compared to the US systems, jpnhby are the Alt routes and jpnhor are the Bus routes.  jpnh and jpnhby would each have ~550 entries.  jpnhor might reach 75 entries.

Do you think this division would be preferable to having a single system of 1200 entries?

Do your "systems" have different signs? How can one distinguish them?
The number of routes is not a relevant argument.

And I would like to eventually add the very extensive railway system.  Most of my and other visitors' travelling in Japan uses the railroads.

You can draft it but we need a new (or enhanced) database and front end before getting them live. I highly doubt that anyone would code it anytime soon. There are already prepared US railway systems.

Offline michih

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2022, 10:09:37 am »
btw: Are you interested in implementing a system shield (svg file)?

Offline yakra

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2022, 11:07:56 am »
A single system of 1200 routes would be better -- usaus & usausb are, tmk, the only instance of bannered routes split off into their own system. Everything else has bannered & mainline together in the same system. They were the first two systems developed for the old Clinched Highway Mapping project after Interstates (both regular & business), before how these things are done got nailed down. If US Highways were to be drafted today, they're surely be as a single system, including bannered routes.
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Offline nezinscot

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2022, 02:31:04 pm »
Thanks for all the feedback.  One system - jpnh - will contain everything.

I plan on creating system shields for jpne and jpnh.  There is no one shield that works for jpntk. Each regional system may need its own shield.  Is it easy to associate a shield with some but not all routes in a system?

I'll revisit the railroad system later.  (By the way, I used to develop Javascript-based web GUIs that allowed users to design their own UIs using DnD.  I know SQL but only enough to sort of follow yakra's musings.)

Offline michih

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2022, 02:51:28 pm »
Is it easy to associate a shield with some but not all routes in a system?

It's doable but not easy - not as simple as we deal for other systems.

btw, if we have different jpntk shields per region, why don't we have one system per region?

I'll revisit the railroad system later.  (By the way, I used to develop Javascript-based web GUIs that allowed users to design their own UIs using DnD.  I know SQL but only enough to sort of follow yakra's musings.)

You might want to check the dedicated thread for railway systems :)

Offline Jim

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Offline yakra

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2022, 10:39:20 am »
jpnhky_con.csv:
Code: [Select]
jpnhky;N497;;Nishi Kyūshū Expwy Sasebo section (E35);jpn.n497
jpnhky;N497;;Nishi Kyūshū Expwy Sasebo section (E35);jpn.n497fuk
These two routes have the same GroupName data, and should be named differently.
Also, recommend removing the "(35)". Looks like that just refers to a concurrent route, something that's not done elsewhere.
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Offline nezinscot

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2022, 12:02:37 pm »
Cut-n-paste error.  n497fuk should be Fukuoka section.

The fix will be submitted later today. 
I will also remove "(Exx)" from group names.  (Kyushu only, I'll do the others the next time I access them.)

Offline michih

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2022, 12:51:50 pm »
I will also remove "(Exx)" from group names.  (Kyushu only, I'll do the others the next time I access them.)

Neither "section" nor "Expwy" etc. should be used.

https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/syshwylist.php#conncname

Quote
Use geographical names, e.g. city names, island names or country names.

Offline yakra

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Re: Japan: National Highways 一般国道 system
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2022, 04:55:16 pm »
Working on some changes to the waypoint simplification routines for the graph generation process, some diffs in waypointsimplification.log (20 MB file -- you probably don't actually want to click the link! ;)) led me here.
The banners and/or abbrevs in some waypoint files mismatch the .list names of the files they connect to:
in file(s)point label sans suffixcorresponds to
N49, N459N49OldMikN49Mik
N49, N459N49OldTsuN49Tsu
N121N121OldIkaN121Ika
N121N121OldOkuN121Oku
N121N121SprKinN121Kin
N16N17BypSom/N17BypAgeN17BypAge, N17BypOmi
N126N126OldInaN126Ina
N55, N195, N438, N439N192BypTokN192BypToE
N192, N318N192BypTokN192BypToW
N492N439BypSugN439, N439Yas
N32N32SprKocN32Koc
N56N56OldMasN56Mas
This is probably not an exhaustive list. Only locations with 3+ waypoints were captured.
The route+banner of a waypoint label should generally match the route+banner of an intersecting route.
Beyond that, abbrevs are generally only needed to disambiguate; say, if a given file refers to more than one flavor of N121 or of N192Byp,etc.
I haven't been following closely enough to know whether "Old" should be added as a banner to the system CSVs, or removed from the waypoint labels. Same for that one "Spr" on the list.

Long labels like N299BypHan/N463BypTok:
Not wrong per se but the manual suggests avoiding them:
If one of the two highways is already long as a label (e.g., a bannered route like US42BusKin), consider skipping the city abbrev. or even skipping the whole second route.
So for N17BypSom/N17BypAge, if that were to otherwise become N17Byp/N17Byp, that might be a good candidate for "skipping the whole second route".
N299BypHan/N463BypTok OTOH could be shortened to N299Byp/N463Byp -- or another option that the manual is quiet on but that people have been doing for years is to just list the banner once, implying that it applies to both route numbers: N299/N463Byp.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 05:08:25 pm by yakra »
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