Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Completed Highway Systems Threads => Topic started by: michih on July 26, 2017, 01:17:18 pm
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http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=beln
I've finally managed to finish the painful way through Belgian national roads :)
It's an European tier 4 system - which are usually drawn "lightsalmon" on our maps - but it's a quite dense network managed by provinces. It is similar to Dutch nldp or German deul tier 5 systems which are drawn in "yellow". I also use "yellow" for beln now.
It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/782) because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md).
I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.
Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...
I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md)?
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starting at the bottom and working my way up (because I want to punch through the short dull routes to begin with)
N900s:
general - because Belgians are weird on top of terrible at signing roads, where you have A4, etc as labels, you might want to consider E411, etc as they are more consistently signed, especially on side roads. I really don't think it matters, but it's something that's there.
N983 - RueMu -> RouMou
N975 - RueSaiSang is RueFortJaco on all mapping sources; is N98 not N/S rather than E/W?
N971 - RueChe -> RueFal
N937 - PontMarGray is off
N913 - N5_Bie points should be N and S, not W and E
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800s
N820 - add a point at RueTro to shape the route better
N821 - Mont -> War? (village you are in, rather than far off village)
N833 - RuMar -> RouMar
N859 - Mar -> RueBiz
N865 - add point at RueMou for Cugnon; N816 is north-south
N882 - RueFla -> RuePla
N883 - N81 -> N81_S
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It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/782) because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md).
I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.
Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...
I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md)?
I think I should add all routes - signed and unsigned.
There are some unsigned Interstates that are included due to being part of the system. Maybe do the same here?
Yes, unsigned E roads are included in countries that don't sign them at all (eg the UK).
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700s
general point - obviously, there's unsigned roads that don't have a point but will when you add them, or have a point that is labelled with a street name, so I've ignored that factor as an issue.
another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?
N700 - surely meets E313?
N719 - GSJ at the railway crossing (MuiStr); KooLaan -> EdwStaStr
N739 - MetSt -> SchStr
N742 - extends to N75?
N748 - heads south of N73?
all other routes fine
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another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?
I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.
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I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.
I don't think different - it was something that occurred to me as I'd see 'A2' labels on a road shown on OSM as E313. I've no real preference either way.
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N742 - extends to N75?
N75 GSV July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0218219,5.7145053,3a,75y,139.92h,64.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swwTErnjKdpbFsm1eovKqJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) shows that the road is closed. It was still opened in November 2010 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.021618,5.7146721,3a,75y,14.9h,55.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdpztCZki-NxAx4cAalHLiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but unsigned. N742 is not signed west of N78 according to GSV from July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0189588,5.7261299,3a,75y,288.88h,78.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDl14dbj7Y6XhBnRqJXof_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
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@Si, do you wanna complete the peer-review or should I add the additional routes first?
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adding would be better.
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done
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Another one from the vaults of my 1978 student tour of Europe...
We crossed the English Channel from Oostende to Dover, by a ferry that has since been discontinued. I do remember the ferry dock being near the big train station, and OSM supports this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.23083/2.92411 noting the "Transeuropa Ferries-Terminal" just north of "Station Oostende".
The nearest N route to this is N34, but alas it doesn't have a waypoint nearby. N34 uses a part of Leopold III-laan to go northeast from the Vuurkruisenplein roundabout, but then makes a right angle turn onto Ernest Feysplein (Google Maps shows this a lot better, as does Esri WorldStreetMap) and Leopold III-laan continues as N34g. N34g then turns onto Natienkaai and (if I'm reading Dutch Wikipedia correctly) ends at the train station, by which I imply the turnoff for the main parking lot where Natienskaai makes a right-angle turn.
Of course none of this is signed, but given the way Belgium signs its highways (mostly it doesn't), that's hardly a surprise.
I doubt we actually want to put N34g into the HB (not that I'd mind), but would it be feasible to put a waypoint on N34 at N34g, where Leopold III-laan intersects Ernest Feysplein?
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I've merged the topics since beln system is still in preview.
I've not added N34g route but added 'KapStr' wp to N34. I've noted in the readme.md (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) file why I've not drafted N34g (note will be added after my next pull request):
`N34g` should exist (not being signed) according to wegenwiki (length of just 200m) and wikisara but it's not indicated on GSV nor GM and OSM seems to indicate it wrong (not from N34 to the station but from the station to the north)
I've generally added unsigned routes if they are clearly indicated on OSM. They are listed in readme.md.
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Is this system ready for review?
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Of course! I've added the remaining routes last March.
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Of course! I've added the remaining routes last March.
Thought so. Let that one slip. Shouldn't be too difficult as looking at my previous look at the 700s, 800s and 900s, there was very few issues (though that makes it tedious)!
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(though that makes it tedious)!
I think that peer-reviews are generally less interesting than drafting new systems. That's why I always tried to draft and review systems parallel or alternating. Now we have a bunch of preview systems and only reviews are on the agenda................
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As a break from a place more-French-than-France, I'll return to the place more-French-fries-than-France. ;)
I'm assuming you have got all of the routes right, and OSM has road numbers where there shouldn't be (eg N617 in central Liege).
N1 (Antwerpen):
- N11 point merged with A1 exit 5 point (one point per interchange)?
- between N129 and R10 route doesn't currently exist: split
N1 (Vilvoorde):
- N1a_Sta -> N1a
- add a point or two in Buda for indirect access to R0?
N1a, N1b: both fine
N1c
- HofEik -> HofEikLaan
N2 (Zaventem):
- AveComGem -> AveCom or GemLaan
- R23_W -> R23
N2 (Diest):
- R23_E -> R23
- merge N29 and A2(24)? ditto N739 and A13?
- R26_W -> N10/R26?
- R71_W -> R71
- R70_W -> R70
you've chopped up routes, but continued to treat them as one big route. Either put them back together, or drop superfluous directional disambiguation.
N2 (Bilzen):
- R70_E -> R70
- R71_E -> R71
N2c: fine
N2d:
- VanLaan -> DokVanLaan
N3 (Tervuren):
- is KorLaan the right label (this area by the is a mess!)?
- is KerStr the right label?
- R23_W -> R23
N3 (Liege):
- R23_E -> R23
- N671 off (and as theres no direct connection between two routes, is it the right place?)
- N90 and RueJup off
N3e and N3i fine
N3g:
- called N603 on OSM
- GSJ in the middle there?
N4:
- point for Rue du Trone?
- MaaLaan -> AveMae (Brussels is de facto Francophonic, even if de jure bilingual)
- EurPirLaan -> AveEurPir (ditto)
- TerWeg -> ChaTer (ditto)
- Avi -> RueTom
- Flg -> CheRen? Fla?
- Fls -> RouStr
- Man -> RueMan
- RueAss -> RueWac
- RueDec -> Rue26Dec
- RueBas -> RouBas_N? RouBas_S
- BEL/LUX_Mar -> N23 (doesn't matter that it's the Luxembourgish one and the N4 is the border)
- BEL/LUX_Arl -> BEL/LUX
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N5 (Waterloo):
- add point for AveReiAst in Waterloo (leads to R0 exit 28)
N5 (Phillippeville):
- RueMar off
- is the autoroute section at the bottom end actually N5?
- N5_CouN -> N5_Cou (sections don't actually meet back up)
N5 (Couvin):
- see autoroute comment about Phillippeville section
- N5_N -> N5 (sections don't actually meet up, and presuming that autoroute is N5)
N6 (Soignies):
- FraKalLaan -> French name (Brussels de facto Francophonic)
- R50_N -> R50
N6 (Mons):
- R50_S -> R50
- N546 -> R5/N546
N7 (Tournai):
- BEL/FRA -> FRA/BEL, or flip route and have route direction matching radial pattern of roads, rather than default N->S and W->E grid pattern (either is fine)
- R52_W -> R52
N7 (Ath):
- R52_E -> R52
- ChaTou -> ChaTou_E
- ChaBru -> ChaBru_W
N8 (Koksijde): fine
N8 (Menen):
- R36_W -> R36
N8 (Oudenaard):
- R36_E -> R36
- R9 -> R8
N8c: fine
N9 (Oostende):
- R30 -> R30_E
N9 (Eeklo):
- R30_E -> R30
- R4_W -> R4
- R40_W -> R40
N9 (Aalst):
- R40_E -> R40
- R4_E -> R4
- KerStr -> KerkStr
- N9k needs to be named something else
- LouMetLaan -> BoulLouMet (Brussels French-first)
- R20 -> R20_E
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N10
- is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?
- R16_N -> N14/R16?
- R16_S -> N108/R16?
- N19_N -> N19/R25
- point for GSJ just north of DieStr (also R25)
- N2 -> N2/R26
N11
- N1 point should be merged with A1 exit 5 (one point per interchange)
N12
- N14 -> N14/N158
- break at R13?
- add point at KonAlbStr (links to N119/N132 point)
N13: fine
N14
- N12 -> N12/N153
- split at R16?
- add point for Hondiuslaan in Duffel (leads to N1/N1c and A1 exit 8)
N15 and N15a: fine
N16:
- N403 -> N403/R32
- N17 and 7(A12) merge?
N16a: fine
N17:
- add point for Hoogveld?
- WolStr -> WolfStr
N18:
- R13/N12 -> R13 if N12 is split
- add missing R18 and relabel relevant points?
- move Mar ever-so-slightly to HanStr? (better point name)
- add points for GSJs either side of canal between N71 and N136
N19:
- R13/N12 -> R13 if N12 is split
- add points in Geel that might link to other points?
N19a: fine
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3240
- is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?
The N routing is clear when there no full ring. When there is a full ring, the routing is not clear - there are two options - and I've split the route.
- R16_N -> N14/R16?
- R16_S -> N108/R16?
- N19_N -> N19/R25
I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it. Any objections?
I've already checked all routes N1-N19 and removed N routes in wp labels when there were a R and a N route in the label name.
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3240
- is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?
The N routing is clear when there no full ring. When there is a full ring, the routing is not clear - there are two options - and I've split the route.
- R16_N -> N14/R16?
- R16_S -> N108/R16?
- N19_N -> N19/R25
I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it.
I'm happy with this reasoning.
I've already checked all routes N1-N19 and removed N routes in wp labels when there were a R and a N route in the label name.
So now I'll highlight cases where there is, rather than questioning why there isn't.
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So now I'll highlight cases where there is, rather than questioning why there isn't.
Response to questions always helps the reviewer.
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N20:
- R70/N80 -> R70
- R72/N79 -> R72_N?
N21:
- JulBorLaan -> AveJulBor (Brussels Francophonic)
N22:
- JulBorLaan -> AveJulBor (Brussels Francophonic)
N23 and N24 missing. Do they get added?
N25:
- ChaWav -> ChaWav_S
- N4_W -> N4_N
- A4 -> A4(8)
- A4_Lou -> A4(8a)
N25a, N26: fine
N27:
- add point for Rue Raymond Lebleux in Lillois (leads to N25 GSJ)
- add point for SW corner of Nivelles ring (leads to N28 southern end)
N28:
- N203a -> A8 (route renumbered recently)
- Rue Lib -> missing N246?
N29 (Beringen):
- R26_N -> R26
N29 (Tienen):
- add point for N572 in Gilly (at the very least that road leads to N90 GSJ)
N30, N30b, N31: fine
N32:
- R32/N36 -> R32_S
N32b: fine
N33:
- R34/N32 -> R34
N34:
- N34f - move to overbridge and either add route or (more likely) rename (also R31)
N34a, N34i, N35 (Diksmuide), N35 (Deinze), N35b, N35c, N35g: fine
N36:
- R32/N36a -> R32_N
- add point for GSJ just west of A17
N36a:
- R32/N36 -> R32
N36d, N36e, N37 (Ieper): fine
N37 (Tielt):
- R32/N36 -> R32_W
- N44/N409 - merge with A10 wpt (one point per interchange)?
N37a, N37b, N38, N39, N39a: fine
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N40 (Philippeville):
- N53 needs redoing (short concurrency between northern/eastern junction and the other junction which is the one-way system)
N40 (Libramont-Chevigny):
- N929 is off
- N95b -> N95d
- RueRan needs another name
- RueHas -> N887?
N40a: fine
N41 (Aalst): fine
N41 (Hamme):
- DorStr -> DorpStr
- R42 needs moving (also R42)
N42:
- add point for LeenStr to match N42a
N42a, N42c: fine
N43 (Mouscron):
- R43_S -> R43
N43 (Deinze):
- R43_N -> R43
N44:
- A11 is off
- N37/N409: see N37
N44a: fine
N45 (Aalst):
- N28 transition is actually a little to the south (here (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8622499,4.0251502,3a,75y,185.7h,80.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKQ9CgwU60tjvPIU8aIX2RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)). Vossel is the closest interchange, but there's N45 signs south of there. Up to you.
N45 (Appleterre-Eichem): fine
N46:
- N42 -> N42/N462
- N462 -> N462_N
N47: fine
N48 (Tournai), N48 (Brakel), N48b: fine
N49:
- PasOpdPle -> LipLaan or KnoStr
- KalDij -> KalDijk
N49a:
- HalLaan is off
N50 (Brugge):
- R36_N -> R36
N50 (Dottenijs):
- R36_S -> R36
N50 (Mons), N50d, N50f, N50g: fine
N51:
- BouAndBel -> BouAndDel
N52:
- does this extend north?
N53:
- see N40
N54 (Erquelinnes): fine
N54 (Fontaine-l'Eveque):
- R3/N90 -> R3
N55, N55b: fine
N56:
- RuePriAst -> CheNotDame?
- N6/N552 -> N6 as doesn't actually meet N552?
N57: fine
N58 (Comines-Warneton):
- TouStr -> 9
- N515 -> 8
- N336 -> 7
- HouWeg -> 6
- N531 -> 5
N58 (Mouscron): fine
N59:
- GirTib -> RueTyb (cross-street beats junction name)
- GirSou -> RueSou (ditto)
N59b: fine
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3253
N23 and N24 missing. Do they get added?
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md
N23 is not signed according to wegenwiki and not on any map
N24 is not signed according to wegenwiki and only indicated on GM
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N23 is not signed according to wegenwiki and not on any map
err: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.84270/4.38703
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N23 was added.
I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it. Any objections?
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3321
It already was yellow instead of lightsalmon.
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N60
- is that a slip road to A10/E40? Does that need to be a point on both routes? (there definitely was an interchange there, but most demolished)
N60Leu - fine
N60b (what a silliness of the Belgians not to have this as N60)
- N60_N -> N60/N425?
N60e
- RuePon -> RuePon_E
- I presume the N60f on OSM is signed as part of N60e.
- do we want to add points on N60 and N60e for what OSM marks as N60g? Do we want to add N60g?
N61, N61a, N61b - fine
N62
- N30 is off OSM
- N640 is off OSM
- N693 and shaping point south of it are off OSM
N63
- N4 -> N4/N86
- N86 -> N86_E or N86_N
N63c, N63d, N63f, N64, N65 - fine
N66
- N831 -> N623/N831
N67 - fine
N67a
- Lan - is this the right name? Presumably Langesthal is the settlement by the dam, hence why all the roads have it.
N68
- add point for N640? (runs fron Slavelot to Spa racecourse according to OSM)
N69
- add point for RueRap (leads to N64/N637 junction)?
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N70, N70a, N71 - fine
N71Ham
- N712_E -> N712 (would need renaming should they ever join the two N71 segments together anyway)
N72, N72a, N73, N73Tes, N73b, N74
N75
- N730_W -> N730_N
N75a - add route in Genk?
N76
- DamStr -> DampStr?
- move MarHabLaan to overpass
- is that a GSJ just south of N779?
- add point at Heuvelstraat to correspond with southern N76a end.
- N76k is off
N76a
- KlwAre -> KleStr
N76b, N76d - fine
N76h
- BrugStr -> BrugStr_N
N76k
- N754a is off
N77
- BurBijLaan -> N75a?
N78, N78b, N79, N79a - fine
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N80
- R62_N is off
N80b - fine
N81
- is there a GSJ at Differt (north of N883_N)?
N82
- RueBonLieu is the name of the road just to the east
N83
- does N83a exist? (RueCha and a point to the west that would need to be added)
N83b - fine
N84
- add points in Bastogne that correspond to N4 GSJs?
N85
- add point for N858 that isn't in the browser but probably should be?
N86
- N623/N831 -> N831
- ChaOur -> N839?
- add point for N86f that isn't in the browser but probably should be?
N86b
- add point for N86f that isn't in the browser but probably should be?
N87
- Nob -> RueSch?
N87b - fine
N88
- add point for N890 that isn't in the browser but probably should be?
N88a - fine
N89
- E411/A4 -> A4 for consistency with other N roads
- RueSer -> N89c (which would need to be added)?
- PontFosRou -> RueVes or RueTro
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N90Bin - fine
N90
- N570 -> N568b/N570?
- RouNew -> RueAltSpi
- delete RueMoi (just an overbridge, and wrong name anyway)
- N4_N is off OSM
- RouGouClo -> N942a (and add route to browser)?
- GraRou -> N644?
- add points for N683a and N615 (and add those routes to the browser)?
- WuaiMat -> QuaiMat
N90a
- RueCoc -> N615/N683? and move to centre of roundabout
N90b, N90z, N91 - fine
N92
- add point for N966 (or road to it) that isn't in browser and probably should be
- N947_N is off OSM, and doesn't directly intersect route as mapped in browser
- PontLus -> N931 (and add that route to browser)?
- N932 -> N932/N947a (and add that route to browser)?
- shouldn't N95/N936 be in the centre of the roundabout?
N93
- ChaNam -> ChaNam_W
- R24 -> R24/N237?
N94
- Lav -> RueJar
N95, N95d - fine
N96
- RueHenBla -> RueHenBles
- RueFra -> RueFra_N
N97
- N5 -> N5/N40
N98 - fine
N99
- LaDis -> ForGer
- RueGra -> RueHoe
- Niv -> RueStEloi
N23 (before I forget it as I move on to 3 digit routes) - fine
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N101
- add points (and route) for N101b?
N101a, N102 - fine
N103
- N18_W <-> N18_E
N105 - fine
N106
- either add R11a or delete JulMor
- DooStr -> DooStr_S
N107 - fine
N108
- WavWeg -> WavWeg_N
N109
- StuBaan -> StuVaa_S
N110, N110a, N111, N112, N113 - fine
N114
- A12(DijStr) -> DijStr?
- N180 is off
N115
- N115b is off
N115a, N115b - fine
N116
- add points for N116a (and add route)?
N117 - fine
N118
- are VelStr and NieStr R18?
N119, N120, N121, N122, - fine
N123
- is PihlStr R18?
N124, N125, N126, N127, N128 - fine
N129
- N1_S isn't a junction with N1
- N1_N -> N1
N130, N131, N132, N133, N134, N135, N136, N137, N138, N139, N140 - fine
N141
- add point for N156 (or add that route to the A13 junction)?
N142, N144, N146, N148, N150, N151, N152, N153 - fine
N153a
- Hei -> Hei_S
N154 - fine
N155
- N1 and N177 are off
N156
- is there a section in Limburg?
N165, N171, N171Nie, N173, N174, N177, N179, N180, N184 - fine
N186
- A112_Cam -> CamHusLaan
-
N200, N201 - fine
N202
- MutLaan -> AveMut (as that road is in Brussels)
N203
- N203a -> A8
N207, N208 - fine
N209
- BruStr -> RueBru
N211
- VilStr -> VliStr
N211b, N212, N218, N221, N222, N223 - fine
N226
- N3 -> R21/N3
N227, N230, N232, N233, N234 - fine
N237
- N93 -> R24/N93?
- RueBru -> N5g?
- add point (and route) for N237a? At the very least add point as leads to N25
- AveMas -> N238a?
N238 - fine
N239
- add point for N243?
- AveMas -> N238a?
N240, N241 - fine
N243
- extend north?
N243a, N246, N249, N250, N251, N252, N253, N255, N257, N258 - fine
N260
- FabWeg -> N211a?
- BudaBrug -> PontBuda
N261
- DeFreLaan -> AveDeFre
- AlsWeg ->ChaAls
N262, N263, N264 - fine
N266
- FonLaan -> AveFon
- BaraStr -> RueBara
- PaeLaan -> BoulPae
- BriTweLaan -> BoulArmBri
N267
- DarnStr -> DamStr
N268, N269, N270, N271, N272, N273, N275, N276. N276a, N277, N278, N279, N280, N282, N283 - fine
N285
- AssWeg -> ChaAsse
N286, N287 - fine
N290
- LakLaan -> AveLae
-
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3491
N82
- RueBonLieu is the name of the road just to the east
On OSM but GM shows the name for both roads. Keep as-is. There is no sign on the eastern route on GSV.
Please go ahead so that we get Belgium finally done! I need to relax in Romania now...
-
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3493
N92
- add point for N966 (or road to it) that isn't in browser and probably should be
It's only indicated on OSM. It is the only route you've suggested to add which is not mentioned on wikisara, wegenwiki nor wikipedia. I checked the route on GSV on its entire length. There is no direction sign. No km post. Nothing indicating any road number. But the route is quite scenic and worth to be added! I found a undated road numbering list (https://www.inforoutes.be/pdf/nummeringwegennet.pdf) which does also not have N966. But the list does also contain ? for other routes. I don't trust this source. It's from the website of the national Belgian police. I finally found a news article from October 2019 (https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_24-nouveaux-radars-troncons-sur-les-routes-de-wallonie-d-ici-fin-2020?id=10338762) announcing construction works in 2020:
Namur, avenue Jean-Ier (Nationale 966 qui monte à la Citadelle, entre la borne kilométrique (BK) 1,3 et la BK 1,8
Added.
N92
- N947_N [...] doesn't directly intersect route as mapped in browser
It doesn't directly intersect but when you leave N92 here you will reach N947 - except you jump off the bridge which might happen to Belgian hwy data managers ;)
N93
- R24 -> R24/N237?
belr = tier 4
beln = tier 5
N94
- Lav -> RueJar
N955 according to OSM + wikisara + 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1228218,5.1167162,3a,26.5y,280.85h,91.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79RT-jSSILzTzEt16b2MmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I remember that I spent a lot of time for this route in 2017...
-
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3497
-
N300, N300a, N301, N302, N303 - fine
N304
- N38 -> R33
- VlaWeg -> VlaWeg_N
N305, N306, N307, N308, N309, N311, N312 - fine
N313
- OmmNoo -> OmmeGang (Gang is a road term like Baan, Noo is Noord, and we don't tend to put directions on roads if they are just specifying 'this is the north one' Ommegang Zuid is the N313 approaching N303)
N314 - fine
N315
- PopStr -> PopStr_N
N317 - I'm guessing it doesn't quite manage to connect to the N34
N318, N319, N320, N321, N322 - fine
N323
- is that giant roundabout with the R8 and A14 one interchange and thus should be one point?
N323a, N323b, N324 - fine
N325
- add point of Spermaliestraat (leads to point on N369)
N326, N327, N327a, N330 - fine
N331
- RuuStr -> N381 (and add route to browser)?
N332
- MeeWeg -> N8 (and extend N8 / join up sections)?
N333
- FRA/BEL not on the border (though I see what you are doing, I think it will need to be an NMP for that 50m or so)
N336, N337, N338, N339, N340, N341 - fine
N343
- does it extend north?
N344, N345, N346 - fine
N347
- does it extend east?
N348, N350, N351, N353, N355, N356 - fine
N357
- Mar -> StaStr (Markt is a footpath there)
- R35_W -> R35_N?
- KeuDam -> N437 (and extend route)?
- R35_E -> R35_S? Also the point is off OSM
N358
- N380 is off OSM
- 5a -> A10
- add point at Stationstraat as leads to A10 exit 5a (which isn't the point marked 5a on this route - the A10 file is correct and calls that 5b)
N360
- is Lippenslaan N49c?
- does the route continue to Kustlaan?
N362, N363, N364, N365 - fine
N366
- does it extend west (to an extended N32b)?
N367, N367c - fine
N368
- OudeVelStr -> VelStr
N368c, N369, N370 - fine
N371
- is Zuidlaan N34c?
- N31 -> N31/N371Her?
N371Her, N372, N373, N374 - fine
N375
- RuuStr -> N381?
N376, N377 - fine
N377a
- VaaDijkNoo doesn't seem to be a road - replace with hidden shaping point.
N379 - fine
N380
- N318 and N358 are slightly off OSM
N382, N382b, N386, N388, N389 - fine
N390
- Is Ieperse Steenweg N8g?
N390a - fine
N391
- BenLaan -> N391b?
N391a, N392, N393, N396, N397, N398, N399 - fine
-
N400, N403, N405 - fine
N406
- GSJs at the Dender bridge?
N407, N408 - fine
N409
- NeuStr -> NevStr
N410 - fine
N411
- R41 is slightly off
N414, N415 - fine
N416
- Mol -> MolEin?
N417, N419 - fine
N423
- NLD/BEL is slightly off (also NLD N62)
N424 - fine
N425
- N60b -> N60/N60b
N430 - fine
N434
- WaaStr -> WaalStr
N435 - fine
N436
- KapStr -> KapStr_N
N437, N438 - fine
N439
- KasDre is off
N440, N441, N442, N444, N445 - fine
N446
- move N470 to centre of roundabout
N447, N448 - fine
N449
- move R4 to centre of roundabout
N450 - fine
N451
- Kou -> KouStr
- Oud Arenberg -> N451b?
- GysStr -> NieStr or NieKerStr (more major road)
N452, N453 - fine
N454
- needs a concurrency with N462 to get over the railway
- is Tweekerkenstraat N454a?
N455
- A11 isn't a junction
- OudeStaBaan -> BalBrug
N456
- LedeStr -> EekStr
N457 - fine
N458
- add point for road to large roundabout interchange on R4 (N458a?)
- Mol -> MolEin
N459
- GSJs next to railway?
N460
- MolStr -> MoeStr
N461
- N436 -> N437
N462
- N42/N6 -> N42/N46
- see N454
- Tweekerkenstraat -> N454a?
N463, N464, N465, N465a - fine
N466
- move A10 to overpass
N466a, N467, N469, N470, N470a, N470b - fine
N474
- R4_S -> ToR4?
N485, N493, N494, N495, N496, N498 - fine
N499
- add point for Nijverheidskaai (links to end of R43)
- N44_W -> N44_S
- N37/N44 needs moving for graph connection (and probably would need renaming)
-
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3529
N360
- is Lippenslaan N49c?
Why do you think so? Paul Parmentierlaan seems to be officially N49c but it's a one-way street while the opposite direction is N49 main route. I always omit this.
It's also unsigned according to 2019 GSV, GM and wegenwiki (https://www.wegenwiki.nl/N49_(Belgi%C3%AB)#N49c).
N416
- Mol -> MolEin?
N458
- Mol -> MolEin
A "could" or a "must"? Einde means "end" and I think it's just a part of the word "Moleneinde" in Dutch. It might be Mill End in English - two words - but it isn't English.
-
N500, N501, N502, N503 - fine
N504 - continues south to N60, surely?
N505 - RueCal -> RueEmiCar (Rue du Calvaire doesn't link up (yet?))
N506, N507, N508 - fine
N509 - make hidden point visible at one of the nearby road junctions
N510 - add point at RueMus? (secondary road on OSM leading to N511 point)
N511 - fine
N512 - add point at Rue de l'Armistice (leads to N511 point)?
N513 - AveWolMoz_N is off, also is it N516a?
N514, N515, N517 - fine
N518 - is the bypass open? Marked as under construction on OSM. If so then N512 (and N513) probably need points for the road meeting N518 at GSJ. If not then split into two.
N519, N520 - fine
N521 - hidden point -> RueRem? or Rem?
N523
- RueSki -> CheArc
- move RueMauLel to junction
N524 - fine
N525 - extends north to N7/N57?
N526, N527, N528, N529, N531, N532, N533, N534 - fine
N535
- RueEmiMal -> RueTem
- BlvTiv is 'Blv' the abbreviation being used for Boulevard?
N536, N537, N538, N539 - fine
N540 - N7/263 -> N7/N263
N541, N543, N544, N545, N546, N547, N548, N549 - fine
N550 - N544 -> R5
N552 - does RueJur function like a GSJ, or is it a junction with RueJac?
N553 - RueAng -> PlaCen
N554, N555, N559, N561, N562, N562a, N563, N563Mor, N564, N565, N566, N567, N568 - fine
N568a - replace hidden point with a visible point
N568b, N568d, N568e - fine
N569 - AveCapDeb -> N587?
N569For - extends east
N570 - R53 is off
N571 - N559 -> N569
N572, N572a, N573, N574, N575, N576, N576a - fine
N577 - add pointe for RueAndVes (leads to R3 exit 6)
N579, N581, N582, N583, N583a, N584, N585, N586, N586Fle - fine
N587 - route extends back round to N29?
N589 - ForJeanPet -> RueBoisGon
N589a, N591, N592, N593 - fine
N594 - add point for N53a (and route)?
N595 - add point for N53a (and route)?
N596, N597, N599 - fine
-
N601, N602, N604, N606 - fine
N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?
N608, N609, N610, N612, N613, N614, N615, N615Ser - fine
N617 - put ChaLie in centre of roundabout; N639 is off
N618, N619, N620, N621, N622, N623, N624, N626, N627 - fine
N629 - add point for GSJ for the road to the Dam
N630a - RuelAer_W -> RueAer_W
N631 - move hidden point to Rue Petit Rivage junction and make visible
N632 - fine
N633 - is ToA26 N663d?
N634, N635, N636 - fine
N637 - Are RueHol_E and RueWar N637a?
N638 - fine
N639 - N617 is off
-
N640, N640Sta - fine
N641 - Ere -> RueHaiBar
N642, N643, N643a - fine
N644 - N90 -> N90/N696
N644Ivo, N645 - fine
N646 - do we want a graph connection with A27? If not then is it 1-point-per-interchange?
N647, N648, N649, N650, N651, N652, N653, N654, N656 - fine
N657 - is AveHan R61?
N658, N659 - fine
N660 - is Ref N660a?
N661, N663, N664, N666, N667, N669, N670, N671 - fine
N672 - is AveEli R61? ditto AveJeanLam N61b?
N673, N674, N675, N676, N677, N678, N679, N679a, N680, N681 - fine
N683 - N863a -> N683a
N683a - N863 -> N683
N684, N686, N689, N690, N692, N693, N695, N696, N697, N698 - fine
-
N518 - is the bypass open? Marked as under construction on OSM. If so then N512 (and N513) probably need points for the road meeting N518 at GSJ. If not then split into two.
N518 was reported to be opened in July 2020 last September (https://www.notele.be/it18-media66913-mouscron-la-route-de-la-laine-devrait-etre-terminee-en-juillet-2020.html) but I'm not sure that the deadline will be met due to the current overall situation. Split.
N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?
Or N617a? Or N617? Nothing is signed in field. I've extended N617 from N671 to N3 now. Please check in HB what I've done. I'm not happy with it...
I've extended N627 at south end up to R61. I'm not happy with the A27 wp.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3687
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N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?
Or N617a? Or N617? Nothing is signed in field. I've extended N617 from N671 to N3 now. Please check in HB what I've done. I'm not happy with it...
Looks OK. The problem is the roads, not what you've done! ;)
I've extended N627 at south end up to R61. I'm not happy with the A27 wp.
I'd make two points (3 and 3a) on A27/E42 to fix that. And add a point at Rue de la Station for access to the southern half-diamond.
-
N700, N701, N702 - fine
N712
- N746. I'm not sure how the routes in Lommel go, but it's definitely not one point in the middle of the town not even at a junction! Both Google and OSM have concurrencies between N746 and N712 (but vary on which side of the roundabout at Sint-Pietersbadenkerk they are concurrent). It seems like the town centre is traffic calmed and routes stopped up for motor vehicles. N746 used to be signed into the town centre from the north, but the signs have been removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2342166,5.3086318,3a,75y,206.85h,73.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soq43zirAPRcYO14W5iReiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). There's also the N790 coming in from Lutlommel to add to the mix.
N713 - fine
N715 - FabStr -> N790?
N715b - HereStr -> N715a?
N716, N716a - fine
N717
- N725_E -> N717b/N725?
- N717c: either add route, or relabel point
N718 - fine
N719 - MuiStr -> BrugStr?
N721 - extends to R73?
N722 - Sch -> N722a?
N723
- SteWeg -> N723a? if not then SteWeg_E
- DorStr -> N730a?
N724, N725, N726, N729 - fine
N730
- DorStr -> N730a?
- add point for N723a/SteWeg
N739 - SintMarPla -> N739a?
N742, N743, N744, N745 - fine
N746 - see N712
N747 - GroStr -> GroStr_W
N748 - fine
N750, N751, N752, N753, N754, N754a, N755, N757, N758, N759, N760, N761, N762, N763, N765, N766, N768, N769, N770 - fine
N771 - GroStr -> WegOpi
N772 - PasMev -> PasMevLaan (for consistency with all the other points)
N773, N774, N775 - fine
N777 - OnzHerStr -> VinStr
N779, N784, N789 - fine
N790
- continues west to Lommel?
- add point at Leopoldlaan as N712a?
N793 - add point at Bocholterkiezel as N731?
-
N800 - fine
N801 - N891 -> N891/N897?
N802, N803, N804, N805 - fine
N806 - extends west to N831?
N809 - N82/N875: is the one way ring R80? (also N82 and N875)
N810, N810Bou, N811, N812, N813, N814, N815, N816, N817, N818, N819, N820, N821, N822, N823, N825, N826, N827, N828, N829 - fine
N830 - fine
N831
- Hin -> CheNan
- PetBar -> N806?
N833 - CheMin & War -> N813_N & N813_S ?
N834, N835 - fine
N836 - add point for Contournement de Marche (N839?) as leads to N4 GSJ
N837, N838 - fine
N839 - continues south to N836?
N839Ize, N840, N840a, N841, N842, N843, N844, N845, N846, N847, N848, N849, N850, N851, N852, N853, N854, N855, N856, N857, N858, N859, N860 - fine
N861 - extends north?
N862, N864, N865, N866, N868 - fine
N870 - RueGau -> N852?
N871 - QuaOuy -> N871a?
N872 - do routes in LUX need sorting to match BEL/LUX? or vice versa? IIRC, N5E ends between the two half junctions, but should it extend to here as it does meet the N872.
N873 - fine
N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821
N875, N875a, N876, N877 - fine
N878 - Cou_E is off
N879 - Buz -> RueMon?
N880, N881, N882, N883 - fine
N884 - RueBab -> RueBab_E
N884a, N885 - fine
N886 - N88 -> N88_N
N887, N888, N889, N890, N891, N892, N893, N894, N895, N896, N897, N898, N899 - fine
-
N902 -fine
N904 - add point for Nouvelle Route de Suarlee (leads to A15 exit 12)
N905, N907, N908, N909, N910, N911, N912, N913, N914 - fine
N915 - RueJeanLib -> RueAndLib
N917, N918, N919, N920, N921 - fine
N922 - N573 -> R53
N923, N924, N925, N928, N929, N930, N931, N931Pro - fine
N932
- N92 -> N92/N947a
- continues west to N978?
N933, N934, N935, N936, N937, N938, N939 - fine
N940, N941, N942, N942a, N943, N944, N945, N946, N947, N947a, N948, N949, N951, N952, N953, N954, N955, N957, N958, N959, N961, N963, N964 - fine
N966 - does the loop merit a bit more fancy shaping?
N967, N969 - fine
N971, N972, N973 - fine
N975
- N576 -> R53 (tier 4 trumps tier 5 surely?)
- is Rue de Walcourt (south of N574) N978?
N977 - RueGim -> RueVod
N978
- continues north to Gerpinnes?
- RueSaiDon is off and is it also N932?
N978a, N981, N982, N983, N983a, N984, N988, N989, N990, N991, N992, N998 - fine
-
Don't forget to check datacheck and NMP, though everything currently is marked as false positives.
http://travelmapping.net/logs/nmpbyregion/bel.nmp
http://travelmapping.net/devel/datacheck.php?sys=null&rg=BEL
-
N712
- N746. I'm not sure how the routes in Lommel go
Same to N712 at the west. Sign into town was removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2322091,5.3008843,3a,75y,132.88h,90.97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxo_orfR8s7c20343KUG5jg!2e0!5s20170601T000000!7i13312!8i6656).
The large direction signs at the east was also removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2275798,5.3188944,3a,75y,324.35h,88.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc9vojBxqFWAwe5wl211c5w!2e0!5s20090401T000000!7i13312!8i6656).
And N746 at the south too - removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2279426,5.3146871,3a,75y,292.41h,85.39t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1sPyn0VxnxF_ocgDYHWDI_lQ!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i36).
I've interrupted all routes at Lommel. L712 (East) already ends at N715. No evidence for extension nor where the it would end.
N715 - FabStr -> N790?
N790
- continues west to Lommel?
no, nothing signed. I don't know where the end point should be.
N715b - HereStr -> N715a?
To the north as indicated on OSM or to the east as indicated on GM?
Keep as-is since there are also no signs on GSV.
N721 - extends to R73?
I don't think so. The extension of N721 and the existance of R73 are only indicated on OSM but no additional proof.
N790
- add point at Leopoldlaan as N712a?
Only indicated on OSM but no idea where it should end.
-
N801 - N891 -> N891/N897?
OSM is wrong. N897 is on a different route and THIS segment IS N891 according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.7181694,5.5323567,3a,75y,225.3h,86.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNkiWRediLJn4lvvK2WzRZw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i13312!8i6656).
N809 - N82/N875: is the one way ring R80? (also N82 and N875)
Indicated on OSM but not anywhere else. Not on any list. Keep as-is.
N833 - CheMin & War -> N813_N & N813_S ?
OSM indicates it being N813 but there is nothing on GSV. N813 exists at another place and it's signed there according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.6688365,5.6258244,3a,15y,233.4h,77.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slYUwZ-gJKOprcwretE1UTw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i13312!8i6656) (it wasn't in 2010).
N861 - extends north?
Confirmed by 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.7483869,5.5705631,3a,75y,26.86h,98.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPC2xHOKQjaIfvmJ9kddhhQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but where does it end? I've put the wp to the next junction in Thibessart.
N871 - QuaOuy -> N871a?
Yep, according to OSM. But GM indicates it being N87. From junction with N811 (unsigned on 2019 GSV) to the French border which is N871 on OSM and 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.5290187,5.4784643,3a,26.9y,356.88h,85.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suXDxyv38TC1sBBw2z3PSUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Don't wanna add it.
N872 - do routes in LUX need sorting to match BEL/LUX? or vice versa? IIRC, N5E ends between the two half junctions, but should it extend to here as it does meet the N872.
It's annoying, but... IMO leave as-is.
The closest comparison I can think of in my regions is ME113 & NH113B at the ME/NH border, though there's only one border point and super-short route segment there.
I'm open for other suggestions :)
N873 - fine
No, it extends to Aye according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.2267433,5.3136321,3a,15y,17.1h,76.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbvD5VJVTY5gPwOkTKWYG_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821
Sure! Why do you doubt?
-
N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821
Sure! Why do you doubt?
It just looked off - exacerbated that the route is all to one side of the blue line. Checking it does get fairly close.
-
N966 - does the loop merit a bit more fancy shaping?
I think it's pretty fine. I tried to avoid SA errors 8)
I'll check data errors, NMPs and concurrencies tomorrow, and plan to activate the system after almost three years in preview. Thanks for the peer-review :)
Edit: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3712
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Data errors, NMPs and concurrencies are fine, changes are committed, data check is running, French Fries are in the oven 8) :P
System will be active with the next site update :D
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French Fries are in the oven 8) :P
I'm sure any Belgians reading this thread were appalled at this turn of phrase. 'French' and 'oven'. What horror is this! ;)
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:) Anyway, lunch was fine. And the pull request was submitted: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3714
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beln.csv:
beln;BEL;N712;Pel;Pelt;;bel.n712pel;
->
beln;BEL;N712;;Pel;Pelt;bel.n712pel;
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beln.csv:
beln;BEL;N712;Pel;Pelt;;bel.n712pel;
->
beln;BEL;N712;;Pel;Pelt;bel.n712pel;
How did you catch this? Is there a data error (data check output?) I didn't notice?
If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
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How did you catch this? Is there a data error (data check output?) I didn't notice?
The C++ siteupdate program has a few extra error checks (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/247) not in the Python version. I've been working on some changes to check all (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/295) CSV data and data that goes into a DB field, in both versions. This should all be done... soon.
If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
This is a good idea. Thought about it but never implemented it for whatever reason. Adding to the work in progress.
Edit: Done. Tested with HighwayData @ 143811e9447d411958ff9e7660bbac96f8276e83
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If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
This is a good idea. Thought about it but never implemented it for whatever reason. Adding to the work in progress.
Edit: Done. Tested with HighwayData @ 143811e9447d411958ff9e7660bbac96f8276e83
On second thought...
It's possible there could be some rare (but legitimate?) reasons we'd want to do this. Take KS171Pit. (http://travelmapping.net/hb/?r=ks.ks171pit) There used to be an ordinary KS171, but KDOT decommissioned it. It makes sense to remove the City field, as there's no other KS171 to differentiate from.
Could I & should I rename it KS171 & make KS171Pit an AltLabel in this case. Yeah. But the point is...
Imagine that the original plain KS171 became an AltRouteName for another route, and that it remained in-use (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/230) in a .list file. KS171Pit would by necessity have to remain KS171Pit.
It makes sense to have these not be a showstopper that terminates the siteupdate program. They could go into datacheck, with the route flagged as per normal, just with no waypoint labels listed, maybe with the system name .csv in the "Info" column to provide a little clarity.
If we really wanna get fancy with it, we could check for the corresponding abbrev-less route in in-use AltLabels (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/230), and if found, not flag the error. I think this could even be a datacheck_always_error.