Highway Data Discussion > Solved Highway data updates
DC: Beach Drive
cl94:
--- Quote from: vdeane on December 12, 2021, 05:57:47 pm ---This also opens up a question about whether non-motorized routes should be in or not, given that MI 185 is. This also affects West River Parkway in NY (which was removed from TM but the situation is still ambiguous especially given the criteria for inclusion in usanyp). Is MI 185 the only example of a road closed to cars but still in TM, similar to how the interstates are the only roads that are allowed to be in without signage? Or are there actual criteria determining whether a road officially and permanently closed to cars gets to remain?
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West River Parkway is a distinct case, as part of the roadway at each end was physically removed to disconnect the bike path from the stubs that remain open. I'd argue it's closer to the Robert Moses...er, Niagara Scenic Parkway in that they effectively removed the road and built a bike path instead of just closing the road to cars.
Beach Drive, as it currently stands, is just a road closed to cars by gates. The tricky thing is that there is no clear rule with what to do here. Legally, this would be a CA 173 situation, but it's also very similar to Prospect Mountain (which you cannot clinch by private vehicle). If we were to remove the northern few miles of Beach Drive and someone decided to put in a shuttle/bus service that used the road, would we then need to re-add it?
My opinion is "leave it in", as it is still clinchable even if not by normal means. Roads are clinchable by ways other than a single-occupant passenger vehicle and there is precedent to include these routes. Note that I'd also include CA 193, but a decision was made by the community to not include it.
--- Quote from: Markkos1992 on December 12, 2021, 07:12:30 pm ---There is also NC 172, which requires a Department of Defense sticker through Fort Lejeune. I may be able to get that if I visit my friend that just moved down to the area.
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NC 172 and NJ 68 both enter military installations. Both remain fully signed and are defined as entering the installations.
bhemphill:
There are several other NPS roads in TM that are partially closed to cars, but the whole length is included. So I don't see why this one would be treated any differently.
Duke87:
--- Quote from: bhemphill on December 15, 2021, 11:49:19 pm ---There are several other NPS roads in TM that are partially closed to cars, but the whole length is included. So I don't see why this one would be treated any differently.
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What others are these?
mapcat:
--- Quote from: Duke87 on December 16, 2021, 04:05:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: bhemphill on December 15, 2021, 11:49:19 pm ---There are several other NPS roads in TM that are partially closed to cars, but the whole length is included. So I don't see why this one would be treated any differently.
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What others are these?
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Park Rd in Denali, for one.
Personally I don't see NPS routes as equivalent to cases like M-185, since M-185 is part of a system that would be incomplete if it were left out, while usanp is by definition "select". If we want to only select routes that users can drive in their own vehicles for usanp, that's a valid choice.
oscar:
--- Quote from: mapcat on December 16, 2021, 08:23:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: Duke87 on December 16, 2021, 04:05:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: bhemphill on December 15, 2021, 11:49:19 pm ---There are several other NPS roads in TM that are partially closed to cars, but the whole length is included. So I don't see why this one would be treated any differently.
--- End quote ---
What others are these?
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Park Rd in Denali, for one.
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The entire length of Denali's Park Rd is usually open to at least shuttle buses, and Park Service maintenance vehicles. During a few days most Septembers (but not in 2021 and 2022, at least, due to a hopefully temporary landslide closure of part of the road), there's a lottery where the winners can drive their own vehicles all the way to the end. The odds are long, especially with the preference given to military families, but some civilians do win.
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