Author Topic: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment  (Read 413 times)

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Offline rickmastfan67

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ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« on: February 21, 2021, 05:44:33 am »
There's a new freeway alignment between SH-637 & SH-607 (that was completed between 2015-2016).

1995hoo, froggie, gpw,harvey, hoss6884, hurricanhink, & oscar all might want to double check when they were last on this segment and adjust their list files accordingly.

Code: [Select]
2021-02-21;(Canada) Ontario;ON 69;on.on069;Rerouted onto a new freeway alignment (some small parts upon original 2-lane alignment) between the *OldON69_NoeS & *OldON69_NoeN points in the French River area that was completed in parts between 2015 and 2016.
This also affects 'TCH (Georgian Bay)'.

There's also another new freeway segment that is close to being opened south of this area in the next year or so.  So more changes will be on the horizon.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4568

Offline froggie

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2021, 09:32:19 am »
My trip was in 2018, so no impact here.

Offline yakra

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 03:17:39 pm »
Quote
2021-02-21;(Canada) Ontario;ON 69;on.on069;Rerouted onto a new freeway alignment (some small parts upon original 2-lane alignment) between the *OldON69_NoeS & *OldON69_NoeN points in the French River area that was completed in parts between 2015 and 2016.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/commit/495e55c6d948a004c0ca35682f4a829fd9ada57f#diff-45156af2d0f466127a1cf7b375535d3c4a9d3a6151d1b54f804caada8381629d
Just now caught on to this. Harvey the RV was there in 2010, so harvey.list changes are needed.

With TCHGeo being east-west, wouldn't *OldON69_NoeW & *OldON69_NoeE be more appropriate for the TCHGeo file?

I can't easily see what needs to be changed. This is why "new route", "new construction", etc. are bad, eh? :)

Moving NW from *OldON69_NoeS...
  • Looks like the hwy was twinned in place to well north of ON64, and driving the old alignment means driving one direction of the new alignment; mytopo.com appears to confirm this. Not sure if *OldON69_NoeS is even necessary, until the future alignment is opened S of there.
  • A couple oxbow loops straddling +X046(ON69) and CroLakeRd. On the one hand, if you wanna keep down the overall point count/density, fair play, though there are more closely spaced points elsewhere. +X046(ON69) may be better as a visible point hereish... Arguably/optionally another point around here, depending on how stuff worked during construction...
  • N of CroLakeRd (which looks appropriately 1PPI itself), this looks like the "small parts upon original 2-lane alignment" noted in the updates entry. Looks largely twinned in place, except for a small ~A-B straightaway that got replaced with a wider-diameter curve. Just noting this for the sake of completeness & figuring stuff out. Going super-precise on this would probably make points too dense; I see the logic in keeping the change simple.
  • *OldON69_NoeN looks a bit awkward as the N end of the relocation, with the old alignment splitting off northward. I believe *MurRivRd (arguably shifted a wee bit NW if we wanna get super-precise) should actually be listed as the N end of the relocation in the updates entry -- N, we have the existing alignment; S, there's the split of the new alignment & an obliterated temporary connection (compare *OldNS104_Ant).
  • Still approriate for *OldON69_NoeN to exist of course, for those who've traveled the existing alignment and want to wibble their wobble into leaving ON ON69 CroLakeRd *OldON69_NoeN clinched.
So, what do I want to do for harvey.list?
  • ON TCHGeo ON17 ...
    Hmm, to save me a potential trip thru updates.csv, when did the realignment NW of there happen? Maybe the ending waypoint should be *MurRivRd, maybe something else.
  • ON TCHGeo *MurRivRd *OldON69_NoeN is a definite de-clinch.
  • ON TCHGeo *OldON69_NoeN CroLakeRd wibbles its wobble into staying clinched.
  • If +X046(ON69) were replaced with a visible option, I'd use it, traveled NW & untraveled SE. If not... I may use the existing hidden point as the best approximation of Harvey's travels. ;)
  • ON TCHGeo ON64 ON400(177) stays clinched, disregarding *OldON69_NoeS as noted above.
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Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 05:54:00 am »
Quote
2021-02-21;(Canada) Ontario;ON 69;on.on069;Rerouted onto a new freeway alignment (some small parts upon original 2-lane alignment) between the *OldON69_NoeS & *OldON69_NoeN points in the French River area that was completed in parts between 2015 and 2016.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/commit/495e55c6d948a004c0ca35682f4a829fd9ada57f#diff-45156af2d0f466127a1cf7b375535d3c4a9d3a6151d1b54f804caada8381629d
Just now caught on to this. Harvey the RV was there in 2010, so harvey.list changes are needed.

When in 2010?  Harvey might not have gotten the ON-400 Nobel Bypass, as it opened October 27, 2010. (*BayDr to 241)

With TCHGeo being east-west, wouldn't *OldON69_NoeW & *OldON69_NoeE be more appropriate for the TCHGeo file?

I would say no, since ON-69 itself is a N/S highway, especially since Ontario treats the TCH differently that other provinces.

I can't easily see what needs to be changed. This is why "new route", "new construction", etc. are bad, eh? :)

Moving NW from *OldON69_NoeS...
  • Looks like the hwy was twinned in place to well north of ON64, and driving the old alignment means driving one direction of the new alignment; mytopo.com appears to confirm this. Not sure if *OldON69_NoeS is even necessary, until the future alignment is opened S of there.
  • A couple oxbow loops straddling +X046(ON69) and CroLakeRd. On the one hand, if you wanna keep down the overall point count/density, fair play, though there are more closely spaced points elsewhere. +X046(ON69) may be better as a visible point hereish... Arguably/optionally another point around here, depending on how stuff worked during construction...
  • N of CroLakeRd (which looks appropriately 1PPI itself), this looks like the "small parts upon original 2-lane alignment" noted in the updates entry. Looks largely twinned in place, except for a small ~A-B straightaway that got replaced with a wider-diameter curve. Just noting this for the sake of completeness & figuring stuff out. Going super-precise on this would probably make points too dense; I see the logic in keeping the change simple.
  • *OldON69_NoeN looks a bit awkward as the N end of the relocation, with the old alignment splitting off northward. I believe *MurRivRd (arguably shifted a wee bit NW if we wanna get super-precise) should actually be listed as the N end of the relocation in the updates entry -- N, we have the existing alignment; S, there's the split of the new alignment & an obliterated temporary connection (compare *OldNS104_Ant).
  • Still approriate for *OldON69_NoeN to exist of course, for those who've traveled the existing alignment and want to wibble their wobble into leaving ON ON69 CroLakeRd *OldON69_NoeN clinched.

1. New segment south of that point is supposedly opening this year, was future proofing.
2/3. Trying to keep points down, especially since most people probably wouldn't want to go that far into the rabbits hole here. lol.
4/5. MurRivRd closed sometime between July '12 & Sept '14, and the route was still on the old road at this time.  The old transition was just north of there.  And they moved onto the new highway between MurRivRd & OldON69_NoeN sometime between then & Aug '15  Hence, why I have points for both.

If I wanted to, I might be able to squeeze in another 'closed' point south of the CroLakeRd interchange, since CroLakeRd is partially the old route of ON-69 there. https://goo.gl/maps/sRUsD6J9w2fasgL58

I'll take a better look at the 'CroLakeRd' to 'ON64' area in the next few days and post what I come up with.  I'll move this thread back into the 'normal' area as well for the moment.

Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2021, 01:59:56 am »
on.on069:
Code: [Select]
*OldON69_NoeS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.055789&lon=-80.623555
ON64 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.103858&lon=-80.666739
*OldON69_DelS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.144518&lon=-80.699301
*OldON69_DelN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.156804&lon=-80.709729
*OldON69_CLR http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.164793&lon=-80.713602
CroLakeRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.178107&lon=-80.716456
*OldON69_NoeN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.189316&lon=-80.735199
*MurRivRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.198221&lon=-80.751615

Alright, here's what I changed:
*OldON69_DelS & *OldON69_DelN (replaces +X046(ON69)) for the 2 ends of that curve that is still partially visible that was bypassed.  Got the 'Del' from the name on the RR tracks just to the East (yeah, stuff out here is hard to get 'legit' names for).
*OldON69_CLR is for where ON-69's original alignment went to the west from the new freeway since they had to completely bypass the Crooked Lake Road segment so they could build the interchange for it and not disrupt the highway since it needed a better curve radius.

Does this look better to you Yakra?  If so, I'll push it with the next batch of ONs files I'm working on.

Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 11:12:03 pm »
Does this look better to you Yakra?  If so, I'll push it with the next batch of ONs files I'm working on.

I'm guessing no issues here then Yakra?  Wanna try to push this tomorrow night, so any comment if it's needed would be appreciated before then. ;)

Offline yakra

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 01:14:33 pm »
Thanks for making changes. Doing a closer review and drafting some comments...
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Offline yakra

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 02:52:52 pm »
When in 2010?  Harvey might not have gotten the ON-400 Nobel Bypass, as it opened October 27, 2010. (*BayDr to 241)
Ooh, thanks. Declinched; it was no later than 2010-07-22.
I assume that the current freeway N of *MurRivRd, past ON 637 and toward the Burwash Training Area is pre-2010?

With TCHGeo being east-west, wouldn't *OldON69_NoeW & *OldON69_NoeE be more appropriate for the TCHGeo file?
I would say no, since ON-69 itself is a N/S highway, especially since Ontario treats the TCH differently that other provinces.
There's this rule, though I don't need to die on this hill; I can see the utility of some wiggle room. :)

Looks like the hwy was twinned in place to well north of ON64, and driving the old alignment means driving one direction of the new alignment; mytopo.com appears to confirm this. Not sure if *OldON69_NoeS is even necessary, until the future alignment is opened S of there.
New segment south of that point is supposedly opening this year, was future proofing.
Aah. I was confused seeing it as the endpoint of the recent relocation's update entry... Would a more northerly "pivot point" be more appropriate?

MurRivRd closed sometime between July '12 & Sept '14, and the route was still on the old road at this time.  The old transition was just north of there.  And they moved onto the new highway between MurRivRd & OldON69_NoeN sometime between then & Aug '15  Hence, why I have points for both.
Makes sense. Got it!

on.on069:
Code: [Select]
*OldON69_NoeS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.055789&lon=-80.623555
ON64 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.103858&lon=-80.666739
*OldON69_DelS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.144518&lon=-80.699301
*OldON69_DelN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.156804&lon=-80.709729
*OldON69_CLR http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.164793&lon=-80.713602
CroLakeRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.178107&lon=-80.716456
*OldON69_NoeN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.189316&lon=-80.735199
*MurRivRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.198221&lon=-80.751615

Alright, here's what I changed:
*OldON69_DelS & *OldON69_DelN (replaces +X046(ON69)) for the 2 ends of that curve that is still partially visible that was bypassed.  Got the 'Del' from the name on the RR tracks just to the East (yeah, stuff out here is hard to get 'legit' names for).
*OldON69_CLR is for where ON-69's original alignment went to the west from the new freeway since they had to completely bypass the Crooked Lake Road segment so they could build the interchange for it and not disrupt the highway since it needed a better curve radius.

Does this look better to you Yakra?  If so, I'll push it with the next batch of ONs files I'm working on.

Oh nice, thanks for that. I didn't think at first that I'd need all the new points, but it looks like I do.
Looks like I'd want...
ON ON69 ON17 *MurRivRd                  # Leaving at this temporary connection, as per above? Closed sometime between July '12 & Sept '14?
                                        # on the old road...
ON ON69 *OldON69_NoeN CroLakeRd         # twinned in place or whatever
                                        # old route via Crooked Lake Rd
ON ON69 *OldON69_CLR *OldON69_DelN      # twinned in place or whatever
                                        # the bypassed curve
ON ON69 *OldON69_DelS ON400(241)        # should this label be plain old ON400?

Suggest OldON69_CLR -> OldON69_Cro, to be more of a place name than a road name. Maybe OldON69_A _B, etc? Is there potential for future alignments messing up the alphabetic sequence?
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Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 05:22:35 pm »
When in 2010?  Harvey might not have gotten the ON-400 Nobel Bypass, as it opened October 27, 2010. (*BayDr to 241)
Ooh, thanks. Declinched; it was no later than 2010-07-22.
I assume that the current freeway N of *MurRivRd, past ON 637 and toward the Burwash Training Area is pre-2010?

They swapped onto the new alignment @ SH-637 interchange around May/June '12.  Was still on the old road in Jul '09. Was partially on, partially off by May '12 south of SH-637.  Was then using the new SH-637 interchange by July '12, but only the NB carriageway and farther north of there to *BurCorCen (May '12/July '12).  Was then fully using both directions no later than Aug '12.

Looks like the hwy was twinned in place to well north of ON64, and driving the old alignment means driving one direction of the new alignment; mytopo.com appears to confirm this. Not sure if *OldON69_NoeS is even necessary, until the future alignment is opened S of there.
New segment south of that point is supposedly opening this year, was future proofing.
Aah. I was confused seeing it as the endpoint of the recent relocation's update entry... Would a more northerly "pivot point" be more appropriate?

I don't think so.

on.on069:
Code: [Select]
*OldON69_NoeS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.055789&lon=-80.623555
ON64 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.103858&lon=-80.666739
*OldON69_DelS http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.144518&lon=-80.699301
*OldON69_DelN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.156804&lon=-80.709729
*OldON69_CLR http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.164793&lon=-80.713602
CroLakeRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.178107&lon=-80.716456
*OldON69_NoeN http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.189316&lon=-80.735199
*MurRivRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.198221&lon=-80.751615

Alright, here's what I changed:
*OldON69_DelS & *OldON69_DelN (replaces +X046(ON69)) for the 2 ends of that curve that is still partially visible that was bypassed.  Got the 'Del' from the name on the RR tracks just to the East (yeah, stuff out here is hard to get 'legit' names for).
*OldON69_CLR is for where ON-69's original alignment went to the west from the new freeway since they had to completely bypass the Crooked Lake Road segment so they could build the interchange for it and not disrupt the highway since it needed a better curve radius.

Does this look better to you Yakra?  If so, I'll push it with the next batch of ONs files I'm working on.

Oh nice, thanks for that. I didn't think at first that I'd need all the new points, but it looks like I do.
Looks like I'd want...
ON ON69 ON17 *MurRivRd                  # Leaving at this temporary connection, as per above? Closed sometime between July '12 & Sept '14?
                                        # on the old road...
ON ON69 *OldON69_NoeN CroLakeRd         # twinned in place or whatever
                                        # old route via Crooked Lake Rd
ON ON69 *OldON69_CLR *OldON69_DelN      # twinned in place or whatever
                                        # the bypassed curve
ON ON69 *OldON69_DelS ON400(241)        # should this label be plain old ON400?

Suggest OldON69_CLR -> OldON69_Cro, to be more of a place name than a road name. Maybe OldON69_A _B, etc? Is there potential for future alignments messing up the alphabetic sequence?

With the amount of possible reroutes to the South, yeah, _A & _B style points would become a pain trying to keep in sequence.  I mean, look below *OldON69_NoeS.  You can see the new alignment that's going to be opened this year hopefully on OSM already.

As for 'OldON69_CLR', changed it to what you suggested (OldON69_Cro).

=====

And Oh Boy, it might have already opened South of *OldON69_NoeS.  OSM is now showing the new alignment as opened.  According to the OSM changeset, opened no later than a week ago.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 05:30:23 pm by rickmastfan67 »

Offline yakra

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2021, 11:32:47 am »
Was then using the new SH-637 interchange by July '12, but only the NB carriageway
Harvey traveled SB, so this at least would be on the old alignment.

They swapped onto the new alignment @ SH-637 interchange around May/June '12.  Was still on the old road in Jul '09. Was partially on, partially off by May '12 south of SH-637.
On enough for my purposes; with both directions temporarily using the new SB roadway.
Regardless, I think it's safe to assume the changeover occurred closer to 2012 than 2009, and that anyone passing thru in 2010 would have used the old road. So I'd want
ON ON69 ON17 *BurCorCen
ON ON69 *OldON69_NoeN CroLakeRd
#...


And Oh Boy, it might have already opened South of *OldON69_NoeS.  OSM is now showing the new alignment as opened.  According to the OSM changeset, opened no later than a week ago.
Oh `ere we go.
A recent NS103 twinning similarly caught me off guard. Wondering how old that is now; do you have a magical way to search thru the changesets that filters out the irrelevant stuff?
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Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2021, 10:02:30 pm »
And Oh Boy, it might have already opened South of *OldON69_NoeS.  OSM is now showing the new alignment as opened.  According to the OSM changeset, opened no later than a week ago.
Oh `ere we go.
A recent NS103 twinning similarly caught me off guard. Wondering how old that is now; do you have a magical way to search thru the changesets that filters out the irrelevant stuff?

Go to the area in OSM, click on the 'Layers' button on the right, and then click "Map Data".  That will make little blue lines show up.  Click on a segment of road you're interested in, and it will then pop up the info for it on the left (Example).  Then you can see when it was last modified.  Click "View History" at the bottom to get even more info about the history of the way.  Will lead you to what changesets (and dates) made the changes there.

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Re: ON: ON-69 new freeway alignment
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2021, 11:41:46 pm »
Alright, fixes I mentioned above yarka have been submitted.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4697

Will deal with the new reroute in a separate thread after I can confirm it has really been opened.