Author Topic: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)  (Read 289 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Markkos1992

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
  • Last Login:September 19, 2021, 09:25:01 am
PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« on: June 03, 2021, 12:28:44 pm »
Previous Posts on this topic:
https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=3020.msg14625#msg14625
https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=3207.msg15398#msg15398

When I clinched PA 418 last Saturday, I purposely drove up to US 62 BUS (Sharon) to see if PA 418 was still posted there (and it is).

While discussing that, I decided to use my easy access to ECMS to my advantage to see if the signing of PA 418 was included in the recent contracts let for projects along the US 62 BUS Corridor,  and ultimately it was.  Having stated that, I would argue that it is hard for me at this point (despite the obvious that SR 418 does not extend to US 62 BUS as discussed previously) to not extend PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon) in the HB.

Anyway, I will let this topic sit here for at least a week to allow for further discussion.  As of now, I think that extending PA 418 is ultimately (though not officially) the correct move.

Travelers affected by this potential change besides myself: afarina, formulanone, hoss6884, justjake, mapcat, pahighways, vespertine, and wadsteckel.  Everyone that has driven PA 418 as of today has clinched its current routing in the HB ending at US 62.

Offline Markkos1992

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
  • Last Login:September 19, 2021, 09:25:01 am
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 10:54:18 am »
I have extended PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon).

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4883

Offline Bitmapped

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Last Login:August 29, 2021, 04:10:53 pm
PA: PA418 terminus wrong
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2021, 09:29:03 am »
TM shows PA418 as ending at Business US 62 in Hermitage. It actually ends before that at regular US 62. The part between US 62 and Business 62 is SR 3035: https://goo.gl/maps/Q3jbVdaAXBw4cpXN7

Offline Markkos1992

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
  • Last Login:September 19, 2021, 09:25:01 am
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2021, 02:00:24 pm »
Bitmapped, I merged your post with my previous forum topic on this subject.  While you are right that SR 418 officially ends at US 62, PA 418 has been shown as signed at US 62 BUS (Sharon) for a long time. 

Please see my first post in this thread regarding my decision.  If PA 418 eventually becomes unsigned north of US 62, I am fine with truncating it back there.

Offline Bitmapped

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Last Login:August 29, 2021, 04:10:53 pm
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2021, 03:06:07 pm »
Bitmapped, I merged your post with my previous forum topic on this subject.  While you are right that SR 418 officially ends at US 62, PA 418 has been shown as signed at US 62 BUS (Sharon) for a long time. 

Please see my first post in this thread regarding my decision.  If PA 418 eventually becomes unsigned north of US 62, I am fine with truncating it back there.

You're right, there is currently signage at Business 62. However, there are also:
- LWS at Business showing the route as SR 3035
- LWS at mainline US 62 showing the route as SR 3035
- No reassurance markers on the road itself indicating it is PA 418 as would be normal practice
- Signage in both directions at mainline US 62 showing PA 418 only heads south
- PennDOT Type 10 county maps going back to the start of the current SR numbering system in 1987 showing this section as SR 3035

My guess would be that the signage replacement on Business 62 was a case of replacing with like signage. A "To" plate should be there rather than "South." This seems to me like an erroneous posting. People should not have to drive this stretch to clinch all of PA 418 since PennDOT clearly does not consider it to be PA 418.

Offline mapcat

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
  • Last Login:Today at 01:16:33 pm
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2021, 05:40:01 pm »
Mark has already put a lot of thought into this, and I support how he handled it.
Clinched:

Offline Duke87

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
  • Last Login:Today at 01:00:03 am
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2021, 06:23:03 pm »
Do want to note, since this has not been mentioned but is important: this is far from the only instance where there is a mismatch between a signed traffic route and the underlying SR number. Poke around the Type 10 maps and you'll spot a bunch.

Often, these mismatches are because traffic route designations were moved around but the underlying SR numbers were not changed. For example, in center city Philly: PA 611 south of city hall is part of SR 0291. And PA 3 west of city hall is a one way pair of SR 3037 (JFK) and 3010 (Market) while SR 0003 applies to Chestnut and Walnut, a couple blocks south and not part of PA 3.

So, the section of Mercer Drive between US 62 and US 62Bus being SR 3035 does not, by definition, mean it is not also PA 418.

And at any rate, signage is the final arbiter, at least so long as signage is consistent. If it's properly signed as PA 418, it is PA 418 for our purposes regardless of what it is on paper.

Offline Markkos1992

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
  • Last Login:September 19, 2021, 09:25:01 am
Re: PA: Extending PA 418 to US 62 BUS (Sharon)
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 07:27:16 pm »
The western end of PA 27 is another one that was previously addressed here (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2372.0).  I acted on this one quicker than PA 418 because PA 27 never stopped being fully posted to US 6/US 19 on the west side of Meadville.