Author Topic: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint  (Read 651 times)

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Online Markkos1992

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NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« on: October 11, 2021, 09:11:59 pm »
It looks like NY878Far should at least be extended north to Burnside Ave, but I think it should go to Rockaway Turnpike based on signage.

Secondarily, should AtlBeaBr be changed to AtlBeaBri?  That is how I would handle it around Pittsburgh.

Offline yakra

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Re: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2021, 01:18:07 pm »
It looks like NY878Far should at least be extended north to Burnside Ave, but I think it should go to Rockaway Turnpike based on signage.
Shapefiles show an end at Burnside. 2014 TDR's first listing is mile 0.64 at Bayview, consistent with an end at Burnside. This odd formatting (which we see all the time in the TDR) may explain why the end is where it is in the HB.
This signage also suggests extending N of Burnside. Thinking it might be vestigial signage from before a truncation, I looked at older editions of the TDR. All of them the same; mile 0.64 @ Bayview.
Quite the opposite, see how signage changed between Feb 2013 and Sep 2015.
IMO Rockaway is appropriate. Thoughts?

Secondarily, should AtlBeaBr be changed to AtlBeaBri?  That is how I would handle it around Pittsburgh.
Yes. Br isn't a USPS standard abbrev, looks like it should be gotten rid of. I see 31 "Br" labels project-wide, 12 of which are in my regions.
USPS does list "Brg" (and I see 8 of these in North America), but AFAIC for the not standard-standard stuff like Rd, St, Blvd, etc., either TM-standard truncations or USPS-standard abbrevs are fine. For example, Mou & Mtn; Cre &  Crk.

Edit: The S end almost looks like it could be 1PPIified, but the end at the toll booths makes sense. I think some other routes (some Long Island parkways?) have been done similarly.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 03:20:47 pm by yakra »
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Offline Duke87

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Re: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2021, 07:52:23 pm »
I am fine with keeping "Br". USPS official specs notwithstanding, "Br" is the standard abbreviation used for "Bridge" on guide signs and will be more readily recognized to a user than "Bri".
That said I'd also be in favor of 1PPIing this: the official end of NY 878 isn't even at the toll plaza as mapped, per the GIS link it's at the gore point of the southbound onramp from Seagirt or, in other words, at the edge of the interchange footprint.

Re: the north end, yeah I'd say it's signed consistently enough to make Rockaway Turnpike the endpoint. On paper it ends at Burnside but signage overrides paper if signage is consistent.

Offline vdeane

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Re: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2021, 08:54:01 pm »
Question: if we're going with signage here, what does that mean for other cases like NY 9A, NY 324, the truck routes we already decided to not have, etc.?  Seems like we could be opening a can of worms here.  After all, while one could argue that the Truck NY 25 signage on CR 48 is nonsensical as it's functionally a spur (as the signage on Aldrich Lane has disappeared), but one can't argue that it isn't extremely consistent.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 08:57:50 pm by vdeane »
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline Duke87

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Re: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2021, 07:28:55 pm »
I don't think this is entirely comparable to the truck route situation. It is fairly standard practice across states to follow signs first regarding where a route ends or what path it follows, and revert to what is on paper only when signage is inconsistent or unclear. This is a biiit different from mapping a route that does not exist at all on paper simply because there are signs.

Offline yakra

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Re: NY: NY878Far Northern Endpoint
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2022, 09:37:52 pm »
I am fine with keeping "Br". USPS official specs notwithstanding, "Br" is the standard abbreviation used for "Bridge" on guide signs and will be more readily recognized to a user than "Bri".
While there's some merit to the standard abbreviation on guide signs, "Bri" was much more common in the TM database, so I chose to change labels in my regions to conform.
With thousands upon thousands of waypoint labels truncated to 3 letters in this way, it should be just as clear to users what's going on, what "Bri" stands for. The likelihood of users using the HB with a "TM Blank" tileset is vanishingly small; it'll be apparent that a Bri is a Bridge.
In any case, the Br->Bri changes were committed before that post was posted.

That said I'd also be in favor of 1PPIing this: the official end of NY 878 isn't even at the toll plaza
02 1.98 878 03021033 0.17 TOLL BOOTH ATLANTIC BEACH BRIDGE END RT 878

as mapped, per the GIS link it's at the gore point of the southbound onramp from Seagirt or, in other words, at the edge of the interchange footprint.
Footprint edge is darn close to, but still definitively north of, the toll plaza.
Here's what I get from the MilepointRoute2015 & SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt shapefile sets, ready to paste into wptedit.
Code: [Select]
MP15_878 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.596449&lon=-73.737044
MP15_Bri http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.596168&lon=-73.736894
SSSQ_End http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.596136&lon=-73.737001
Clearly the toll plaza.

Re: the north end, yeah I'd say it's signed consistently enough to make Rockaway Turnpike the endpoint. On paper it ends at Burnside but signage overrides paper if signage is consistent.
Agreed. https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5533
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