Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: si404 on September 30, 2019, 03:31:27 am
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I did think about the Lincoln Highway and Old National Road being included here. I'm leaning slightly to against, but only slightly.
Thoughts from the floor?
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Then what about the Great River Road? (Serious Question) - maybe a scenic byways group?
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Against.
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I did think about the Lincoln Highway and Old National Road being included here. I'm leaning slightly to against, but only slightly.
Thoughts from the floor?
Against for now.
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I did think about the Lincoln Highway and Old National Road being included here. I'm leaning slightly to against, but only slightly.
Thoughts from the floor?
Against for now.
Also against.
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Then what about the Great River Road? (Serious Question) - maybe a scenic byways group?
That sounds like a separate system. The big question is how much of those scenic byways are on roads not already signed as either US or state highways?
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^ A fair bit of the Great River Road in Minnesota is on county routes. Also some city streets in the Twin Cities.
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I would support a GRR file somewhere (and even draft the file if desired). In most states it's well signed, and often exists on secondary or county routes. I agree that it doesn't belong in usaush, but it's worth of including somewhere.
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To me routes like GRR get in line for consideration once we have all state and provincial systems in North America to active status.
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That sounds like a separate system. The big question is how much of those scenic byways are on roads not already signed as either US or state highways?
Not a huge amount (especially when factoring in usanp and usaush), but there's some bits of All-American Roads that aren't. National Scenic byways is probably a similar proportion, though I haven't looked fully into that.
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Then what about the Great River Road? (Serious Question) - maybe a scenic byways group?
That sounds like a separate system. The big question is how much of those scenic byways are on roads not already signed as either US or state highways?
In Iowa, the GRR in part-to-half of Lee County, old IA 99, and most of Dubuque to Lansing is signed on county roads.
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Apparently this is a thing (https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=usatr).
The following seem to me like clear additions:
*Jefferson Highway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6231413,-93.9389947,3a,15y,32.44h,88.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skNqDNLMUny4wDNLyFWNczQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (Iowa)
*Appalachian Foothills Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5406619,-83.973531,3a,15y,305.06h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq60xD2jF3UDvlHGqVf2Z7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (Georgia)
*Michigan Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7668747,-86.1412375,3a,15y,124.75h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDvwajDtroGMyFBxcjb3Aaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (Indiana)
*National Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4793235,-87.3306689,3a,15.3y,307.47h,92.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk0u4Mh_7VazdB_K9JKDlrw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (Indiana)
*Crowley's Ridge Parkway (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7004111,-90.6847363,3a,15.1y,161.65h,85.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCL6_p2LxD6skntRY9nvk9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (Arkansas)
Other possibilities:
*other byways in Iowa (https://iowadot.gov/iowasbyways)
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Great River Road errors:
Louisiana to come...
Supposedly the GRR uses old US 61 thru Lula and Tunica to Walls MS, but I can't find signage on either alignment.
Memphis from south to north: US 61, BB King Boulevard (US 64/70/79), Patterson Avenue, Main Street, Beale Street, Riverside Drive, Jefferson Avenue, Front Street, Willis Avenue, Island Drive, Mud Island Road, 2nd Street, Whitney Avenue, US 51
The GRR is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.4241034,-89.6848076,3a,15y,45.07h,91.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shIYe2plkDKLZmeZ1s7qbgg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Missouri south from Perryville to the Arkansas line. It seems to follow US 61 except maybe at Kelso (I can't find any signs on either the old or the new alignment).
The GRR is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7150852,-91.391311,3a,15.7y,303.97h,89.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFUiuXQfWDe29-0XtsKGNwg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Missouri north from Hannibal to the Iowa line. It follows I-72, US 61, 168, US 61, US 61 Bus, B, US 61 Bus, and US 61.
IL GRREDu seems to be unsigned; shields begin in Wisconsin at the state line.
The GRR uses old US 61 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7800157,-90.2881701,3a,15y,113.09h,89.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXqYi37JgF8WmCuKKseEgrA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Camanche IA.
The GRR uses Mud Lake (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5684919,-90.7217192,3a,37.9y,369.69h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdDDf5mycRfQuHx5m-EOY8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)/Circle Ridge Roads east of Sherrill IA.
The GRR uses CR 42, not MN 101 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2812052,-93.5666801,3a,15.1y,115.35h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s62ksoXwrSnX_rzjvWKN2kQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) south of Elk River.
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Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
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Memphis from south to north: US 61, BB King Boulevard (US 64/70/79), Patterson Avenue, Main Street, Beale Street, Riverside Drive, Jefferson Avenue, Front Street, Willis Avenue, Island Drive, Mud Island Road, 2nd Street, Whitney Avenue, US 51
signed? I spent a long time looking in Memphis and couldn't find enough signage to justify it, despite being lax when it came to clear gaps in the GRR like the East Duluth one.
Same goes for some of these other gaps (also National Road in Indiana and bits of the Lincoln Highway, though I was stricter with those) - I didn't find enough signs. Now sure, the problem might be me not spotting signs that are there, rather than not enough signage, and I'd be happy if that was the case, however I was pretty thorough at looking for signs in the GRR gaps.
IL GRREDu seems to be unsigned; shields begin in Wisconsin at the state line.
I don't know why I let that slide. Probably because it was short. But I didn't raise the bar for the Missouri or Memphis sections. I didn't find enough to justify a continuity closing of the gap in those places, despite having this.
The routing errors are a mix of laziness (oh, it's on this road now for umpty miles, let's jump to where it turns off it) and crappy mapping of the route that I had to rely on.
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Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
the intention was that it would stay for long, but it was also not the intention that these routes would disappear and never come back. The last Easter egg was railways.
There's no reason why such routes couldn't become permanent, providing that there's mechanisms in place to deal with the purist's objections towards systems they have no interest in clinching mucking up their scores in the game of 'gotta clinch them all' that they are not playing as they don't play games affecting their stats.
If people want it, they should have it.
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Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
the intention was that it would stay for long, but it was also not the intention that these routes would disappear and never come back. The last Easter egg was railways.
There's no reason why such routes couldn't become permanent, providing that there's mechanisms in place to deal with the purist's objections towards systems they have no interest in clinching mucking up their scores in the game of 'gotta clinch them all' that they are not playing as they don't play games affecting their stats.
If people want it, they should have it.
I would support this system staying around, if for no other reason than a surprise chance to add new travels (at a glance, it appears I'll have some to add in NY, PA, and MN).
Also... NY SeaTrl has a couple of point issues.
SeaTrl endpoints of NY14 overlap (NY14_N and NY14_S) do not exist as points on NY 14.
I-190 21 21B incorrectly shows concurrent with SeaTrl. SeaTrl follows the direct ramps from NiaScePkwyNia to NY384, although it is only 0.1 mile so it may be passable.
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Those point issues are due to existing files not being changed for ge Easter egg.
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I'd like to see the system stay in preview and improved. We can work out the issues of what should be included.
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Those point issues are due to existing files not being changed for ge Easter egg.
Got it. In the case of the SeaTrl/I-190 overlap, NiaScePkwyNia and NY384 may also be affected, since they lack point locations where they are joined by SeaTrl.
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Memphis from south to north: US 61, BB King Boulevard (US 64/70/79), Patterson Avenue, Main Street, Beale Street, Riverside Drive, Jefferson Avenue, Front Street, Willis Avenue, Island Drive, Mud Island Road, 2nd Street, Whitney Avenue, US 51
signed? I spent a long time looking in Memphis and couldn't find enough signage to justify it, despite being lax when it came to clear gaps in the GRR like the East Duluth one.
From south to north:
King/Patterson (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1319931,-90.0545909,3a,17.3y,22.62h,90.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqs3v0ng177y3XwM9_eqD-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Patterson/Main (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1328073,-90.0586595,3a,25.4y,297.65h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBsLExqzdX9bBFfRJdxKKTQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Main/Beale (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1404643,-90.0554208,3a,27y,146.18h,89.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siq6ORGUcbHnJbh4jHz7PcA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Beale/Riverside (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.141047,-90.0575298,3a,39.6y,332.82h,87.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLXXJ0nWjV5znon3hmrcAlQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Riverside/Jefferson (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1475637,-90.0545797,3a,15y,68.22h,93.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seBfZ_Kwlkdh4uWempRoJEQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Jefferson/Front (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1476851,-90.0538584,3a,37.6y,138.75h,95.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx8EVA0dxVbcf2zhF3yYk8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Front/Willis (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1565432,-90.0496586,3a,15y,33.93h,88.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd5ITIBGrk5SYeV9ELdxTNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Willis/Island (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1590945,-90.0552362,3a,27.9y,322.62h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5FVkPLA15vzZZ3VP0ZmLVQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Mud Island/2nd seems to have disappeared.
Whitney/51 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2090005,-90.0339435,3a,17.1y,99.41h,89.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCWGJFmZmhBE3o-BpmJgcqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
As for Missouri, there seem to be a fair number of signs on both state portions. Most importantly, it's signed on secondary B (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1289902,-91.5186303,3a,15y,206.42h,89.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8jChhbWCapo__wLnAZpD-w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Thanks BTW for the system; you did a good job. Hope it stays :)
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Louisiana is by far the worst-signed piece of the GRR. It's also the only state to define it in law (https://legis.la.gov/Legis/Law.aspx?d=207049). The following differences exist:
The eastbank route continues south to meet the westbank route at Gretna. Exposition Street is not driveable; the nearest two-way street is Clay Avenue. https://byways.louisianatravel.com/byway/louisiana-great-river-road shows St. Charles Avenue instead. It also shows a continuation down the eastbank to Pointe a la Hache
The route in Baton Rouge is different between Government Street and SpaTownRd_W.
The law agrees in New Roads (assuming it's talking about 1 Business), but https://byways.louisianatravel.com/byway/louisiana-great-river-road shows a different route that follows the river better.
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The GRR is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.3510611,-90.829441,3a,16.6y,176.69h,93.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEESCUsMOz8dw9uj1BDA_JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to bypass Vicksburg. (But the route thru Vicksburg should remain in TM as US 61 Business.)
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Louisiana is by far the worst-signed piece of the GRR.
I saw there was a sign refresh due last year that started after most of the street view imagery was taken so gave it the benefit of the doubt and took the route from AARW/map data, rather than LA law (because I had assumed that the more readable data would be accurate).
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What source was used for the Lincoln Hwy in PA? It's ends to me are odd considering how the name still exists on much of US 30 and even some of US 1 BUS east of Gettysburg.
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What source was used for the Lincoln Hwy in PA? It's ends to me are odd considering how the name still exists on much of US 30 and even some of US 1 BUS east of Gettysburg.
road names don't matter. Shields do.
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What source was used for the Lincoln Hwy in PA? It's ends to me are odd considering how the name still exists on much of US 30 and even some of US 1 BUS east of Gettysburg.
road names don't matter. Shields do.
I think my real issue is that it took me this long to find any shields (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8869044,-76.9840328,3a,75y,293.96h,84.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk6I6DtU1b-HspbiuqBfeeg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). I was not aware of any in PA.
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Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while. It would be nice if the goalposts didn't move without warning. Ogdensburg is far enough away that I need to take a full day to get there and back, all for a mile or two of route that I could have clinched earlier if I had known it might be added. Needless to say, this means that either my roadtrip schedule or TravelMapping map will be messed up for a long while.
And yes, let's talk about maps, because this affects Maryland too. I have no interest in getting Maryland to 100%, but there are sections of road that I would have clinched last year with the Cumberland meet if I had known, just to make the map look good. The odds of me being back there to fix this any time soon aren't exactly good.
If this is sticking around, can we at least get a color that is less similar to auxiliary US routes while fitting in with the color scheme (not clashing like something like black might)?
Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
the intention was that it would stay for long, but it was also not the intention that these routes would disappear and never come back. The last Easter egg was railways.
There's no reason why such routes couldn't become permanent, providing that there's mechanisms in place to deal with the purist's objections towards systems they have no interest in clinching mucking up their scores in the game of 'gotta clinch them all' that they are not playing as they don't play games affecting their stats.
If people want it, they should have it.
Is this your attempt to sneak in stuff that wouldn't have otherwise been added?
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The Seaway Trail in Erie has an annoying one-way pair. Eastbound is as shown (missing sign for the turn onto 6th (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1033115,-80.1558992,3a,15y,100.07h,88.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxhMKEX8lrA1MHZFCX8akFQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)), but westbound stays on Bayfront to 8th.
The Seaway Trail in Buffalo needs a point at NiaSq (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8869314,-78.8781294,3a,15.1y,310.1h,88.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szpshYYHWkUi1yyu_ks9VHw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to match NY 384.
The Seaway Trail in Niagara Falls uses Main Street to Rainbow Boulevard, not 1st-Niagara-Daly, rejoining what we have at NY384_E.
The Seaway Trail should probably get a point at Ford/Rosseel and a shaping point at Rosseel/Washington in Ogdensburg NY to clarify that it uses some of Washington Street east of State Street.
LECT signage seems to completely disappear west of Geneva OH (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8053433,-80.9476681,3a,20.7y,232.87h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp0A2qMSwEtbQ5CriZrj-Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), with signs only for the Lake Erie Coastal Ohio Trail (which has a different route in places). This has been true since 2008 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7053747,-81.3612611,3a,36.3y,33.66h,90.18t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svxpMcyx6QiuAuNYoQlrTKg!2e0!5s20080901T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu) or earlier. Signs return where it hops onto I-90 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5618335,-81.5917863,3a,15y,256.12h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl_zsuPETCwqY48jr0xKy0A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
The LECT uses SR 269 and SR 163 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5316199,-82.8300634,3a,16.8y,136.64h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2uaf_poXXr8fJWfiyvoPGg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Danbury and Port Clinton OH. It strangely uses SR 358 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5172495,-83.0205818,3a,15.9y,302.92h,91.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Yy-jw-1RK0Dv9hXnqDEWw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to return to SR 2 (Ohio must want to keep it on state routes).
This sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6367132,-83.4899103,3a,25.1y,293.36h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sys1WHn7udkjCPSKP-n25Bw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) seems to be erroneous. There's nothing after the turn, and the LECT is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6859702,-83.5155876,3a,16.4y,35.22h,88.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ofFRP-vjzu_nuLLJNLpYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) at the end of I-280.
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Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while. It would be nice if the goalposts didn't move without warning. Ogdensburg is far enough away that I need to take a full day to get there and back, all for a mile or two of route that I could have clinched earlier if I had known it might be added. Needless to say, this means that either my roadtrip schedule or TravelMapping map will be messed up for a long while.
And for others, it may be more than just Ogdensburg; there's over 40 miles between Rochester and Oswego that's off the state route system, plus the two short connections in Niagara Falls. I am fortunate to live close enough to have most of that clinched already, but there's a segment near Wolcott I'll have to grab at some point. I do like the fact that the Seaway Trail connects to NY 250 and NY 14 at their northern termini so they no longer look like dead ends.
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The LHCT where it leaves I-75 in the Upper Peninsula is sometimes signed as a spur (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4765576,-84.3543349,3a,15y,167.24h,88.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAVXYT1A0Cs9MjWBYj4Z53A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and I-75 has LHCT signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2885477,-84.48749,3a,18.9y,261.47h,86.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxo5Vwk9dW6WgM_yzo1nibA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) all the way.
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What source was used for the Lincoln Hwy in PA? It's ends to me are odd considering how the name still exists on much of US 30 and even some of US 1 BUS east of Gettysburg.
There's the Lincoln Highway Heritage corridor that has LH shields from Greensburg to New Holland.
But, east into York, Lancaster, Downingtown, Philadelphia, and Morrisville, you won't find a LH shield till you reach the Delaware River.
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Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while.
40-50 days is a long, long while? either my roadtrip schedule or TravelMapping map will be messed up for a long while.
6-7 weeks is sooooo long!
Is this your attempt to sneak in stuff that wouldn't have otherwise been added?
if it wasn't for spoilsports like you ranting about goalposts moving (like this is a game) and maps not looking good (like this is an art project), these routes would have been added long ago.
People have been asking for the Great River Road and Lincoln Highway, etc as they want to map their travels on them for a good few years now and the reason they haven't been added is because we want to be able to hide stuff before we add them permanently so that the game players and map artists are appeased when the travel mappers finally get what they want.
As you can see from this thread, I'm the cautious one here wanting a short glimpse now and then nothing until we fix the issue, while others want the system to simply not disappear. I'm the one being considerate to your point of view here - why are you targeting me with your rant?
I very much want you to be able to play whatever games you want and make whatever art you want with the data. I just wanted to give the many many people who want this a short period where they can look at such routes without your veto while we wait for a solution that pleases all users.
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Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while.
Back again: https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?u=vdeane&rg=NY&sys=usai,usaus,usanyp,usaif,usasf,usausb,usany,usapa
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Apparent point error in Oregon. OR US30 has an "OldUS30_E" in Knappa but OR LCTrl doesn't. That creates an inconsistency. If Old US 30 is supposed to be part of the trail (and I don't recall because I'm thousands of miles away), the point needs to be introduced, as the next point, "ValCrLn_W", is in both files. OR LCTrl seems to follow US30 through Svensen; if it's consistent, it should follow through Knappa as well. (Or if the trail follows Old Route 30, additional points need to be added to take it off existing US 30.)
Anyway, count my vote toward keeping this as a preview system and improving it. Thanks for the Easter egg.
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I have a question that may be on the minds of others.
Is this systems likely to stick around?
If so, I want to update my .list file to include segments I've driven that aren't already covered by existing routes. If not, I'd rather not take the time and effort.
I don't really have a preference for either option, but it would be nice to know before adding quite a few lines to my list.
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Check for duplications of waypoints across the board. I've seen 2 "US61_N"s in the Minnesota portion as an example.
MN: duplicate label US61_N in mn.grrwin.
Please report this error in the Travel Mapping forum.
Unable to parse line: IA GRR IA92 MN GRRWin US61_N
MN: duplicate label US61_N in mn.grrwin.
Please report this error in the Travel Mapping forum.
Unable to parse line: MN GRRWin US61_S MN GRRWin US61_N
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Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
the intention was that it would stay for long, but it was also not the intention that these routes would disappear and never come back. The last Easter egg was railways.
There's no reason why such routes couldn't become permanent, providing that there's mechanisms in place to deal with the purist's objections towards systems they have no interest in clinching mucking up their scores in the game of 'gotta clinch them all' that they are not playing as they don't play games affecting their stats.
If people want it, they should have it.
And did Railways drop off the map?
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Is this system here to stay? If so, I'm suddenly tracking my travels on the Seaway Trail :D
the intention was that it would stay for long, but it was also not the intention that these routes would disappear and never come back. The last Easter egg was railways.
There's no reason why such routes couldn't become permanent, providing that there's mechanisms in place to deal with the purist's objections towards systems they have no interest in clinching mucking up their scores in the game of 'gotta clinch them all' that they are not playing as they don't play games affecting their stats.
If people want it, they should have it.
And did Railways drop off the map?
yes.
They came back (though still not fully for reasons that don't apply here) a couple of years later after the issues around them being on the map, messing up people stats, etc were dealt with.
I'm still for something similar happening to this system - that it goes away until issues with having it are sorted, but it seems like I am in a minority on that.
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I'm still for something similar happening to this system - that it goes away until issues with having it are sorted, but it seems like I am in a minority on that.
Seconded! The concurrency issues should be fixed first.
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If there is interest in railways - including updating systems. I noticed that dropped off (except for Si's) - I also noticed there were no boards for helping review them - too alpha?
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still don't understand the controversy...
As long as there are separately named systems, people can ignore the ones they don't care about and go for 100% in the ones they do. This would be the compromise for adding non/underposted state routes - they would get a separate system from the state highways system.
Having 100% on TM for a state overall has zero meaning. Unless every road in the state is in TM, it displaying somebody has driven 100% of that state is inaccurate and arbitrary to whatever somebody includes in that state's mappable travels.
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LMCT uses M-120 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2930971,-86.2109478,3a,21.9y,235.9h,86.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9WLGm1rwmlC-yprOQzyQ4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu).
M-109 is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.8350582,-86.0343322,3a,20.9y,31.16h,95.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3VO-BVHSeWuhIJsH5_J15A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) as an LMCT loop.
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I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.
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Another issue with the Seaway Trail - it doesn't follow NY 5 west of Hamburg (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7357416,-78.9166413,3a,43.1y,248.9h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sktTyGitI_GCZ6m2jFt_9RA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Unfortunately, signage isn't entirely clear west of that point. It appears to follow the route in this map (https://scenicbyways.info/byway/2200.html) around there, but there are locations where it doesn't follow the route in that map (like around I-190, the LaSalle, and NY 384). I expect each turn will need to be verified to get the correct route.
And for others, it may be more than just Ogdensburg; there's over 40 miles between Rochester and Oswego that's off the state route system, plus the two short connections in Niagara Falls. I am fortunate to live close enough to have most of that clinched already, but there's a segment near Wolcott I'll have to grab at some point. I do like the fact that the Seaway Trail connects to NY 250 and NY 14 at their northern termini so they no longer look like dead ends.
I'm missing those as well (well, I'm 95% certain I have everything around Niagara Falls), but at least they're not hard to get (I was actually considering whether I want to go to Chimney Bluffs State Park in one of my trips out this year; I guess I should prioritize that). Ogdensburg is the one that presents a logistical challenge. The closest I expect to come this year is Alexandria Bay (well, Blind Bay, actually, but I probably won't be driving for that part, and good luck convincing my parents to go on a 45 mile round-trip detour), but taking 45 minutes to clinch two miles of Seaway Trail and then deadheading back isn't my idea of fun.
Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while.
40-50 days is a long, long while? either my roadtrip schedule or TravelMapping map will be messed up for a long while.
6-7 weeks is sooooo long!
Is this your attempt to sneak in stuff that wouldn't have otherwise been added?
if it wasn't for spoilsports like you ranting about goalposts moving (like this is a game) and maps not looking good (like this is an art project), these routes would have been added long ago.
People have been asking for the Great River Road and Lincoln Highway, etc as they want to map their travels on them for a good few years now and the reason they haven't been added is because we want to be able to hide stuff before we add them permanently so that the game players and map artists are appeased when the travel mappers finally get what they want.
As you can see from this thread, I'm the cautious one here wanting a short glimpse now and then nothing until we fix the issue, while others want the system to simply not disappear. I'm the one being considerate to your point of view here - why are you targeting me with your rant?
I very much want you to be able to play whatever games you want and make whatever art you want with the data. I just wanted to give the many many people who want this a short period where they can look at such routes without your veto while we wait for a solution that pleases all users.
Not sure where you're getting 6-7 weeks/40-50 days from. My travel for this year is pretty much spoken for already. The earliest I would expect is winter next year, and that's if nothing dislodges any of my planned fall trips and the weather cooperates (very much not a sure thing in this part of the state; I'm only moderately more willing to go to Region 7 or the Adirondacks in winter than the Green Mountains). Also nothing of a higher priority coming up (filling in gaps elsewhere, re-clinching re-aligned routes, etc.).
Apologies if it seemed the whole post was directed at you. It wasn't; only the sentence below the quote was (and I was half joking, though I didn't make enough effort to convey that given that I was rather frustrated at the time). It was directed at the seeming majority that wants to just keep it around right now. Having had 24 hours to mull it over, I have fewer objections than I did, but I would still prefer it not be live at this time. It was sprung on everyone with essentially no warning, and as it stands, it's basically devel quality. As noted, the Seaway Trail has a ton of issues, and I found at least one more that hasn't been noted. There's the question of what to include (this will probably always be a point of frustration, as it's essentially a grab-bag system with little way to predict what might get added over time; at least with usasf and cansf, you can just make sure to clinch any freeway just in case). And, of course, the concurrences. At a minimum I would want the concurrency issue to be addressed and the Seaway Trail and other routes to be fixed onto their correct alignments before it's permanently in preview, with a drop to devel before that is finished. And, also, changing the color. Perhaps the dark green I brought up when we were discussing colors for usanp?
Welp. There goes my 100% of NY for a long, long while.
Back again: https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?u=vdeane&rg=NY&sys=usai,usaus,usanyp,usaif,usasf,usausb,usany,usapa
Yeah, IMO that's too custom to really count.
I have a question that may be on the minds of others.
Is this systems likely to stick around?
If so, I want to update my .list file to include segments I've driven that aren't already covered by existing routes. If not, I'd rather not take the time and effort.
I don't really have a preference for either option, but it would be nice to know before adding quite a few lines to my list.
That seems to be the case. That said, I'm not touching anything on it until the concurrency/alignment issues are fixed.
still don't understand the controversy...
As long as there are separately named systems, people can ignore the ones they don't care about and go for 100% in the ones they do. This would be the compromise for adding non/underposted state routes - they would get a separate system from the state highways system.
Having 100% on TM for a state overall has zero meaning. Unless every road in the state is in TM, it displaying somebody has driven 100% of that state is inaccurate and arbitrary to whatever somebody includes in that state's mappable travels.
Eh, that doesn't quite work (at least for things other than railways, which are on a separate site). I was content to ignore anything that wasn't an interstate up until the point where CHM got concurrency detection, at which point it became a question of inaccurate stats or mapping everything.
I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.
I can agree with that.
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And for others, it may be more than just Ogdensburg; there's over 40 miles between Rochester and Oswego that's off the state route system, plus the two short connections in Niagara Falls. I am fortunate to live close enough to have most of that clinched already, but there's a segment near Wolcott I'll have to grab at some point. I do like the fact that the Seaway Trail connects to NY 250 and NY 14 at their northern termini so they no longer look like dead ends.
I'm missing those as well (well, I'm 95% certain I have everything around Niagara Falls), but at least they're not hard to get (I was actually considering whether I want to go to Chimney Bluffs State Park in one of my trips out this year; I guess I should prioritize that).
Chimney Bluffs is absolutely worth a visit as long as you're up for a moderate hike to get to the best views. Plus the Seaway Trail between there and Webster is a pleasant drive with light traffic and some good lake views. Quaint Pultneyville and Sodus Point are both worthy stops as well.
I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.
I can agree with that.
I also agree with this and would like to see some of the main issues fixed before it becomes a preview/active system.
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I've had IA and IL Lincoln Highway routes ready to go for YEARS. But, since this system is up there right now as at least temporarily a thing, I will comment on the idea that these could be used later (and then your source files can be my source files).
Iowa Lincoln Highway
Because some people might want to follow the Scenic Byway and have it reflected in their US 30 travels, I'm copying and pasting points where applicable and will be adding them to the main US 30 route. I know where they are because they're wherever a US 30 overlap isn't showing for me.
There are currently two gaps in the route due to closed roads in the IA 17 and Lisbon areas. I’m in a protracted debate/struggle with the Iowa LHA on this as the Iowa DOT wants to re-sign the route this year, I have some changes across the state based on my research, and any major changes have to take into account its national byway designation. What's there in those two places is fine for now but I hope to have them changed in the field.
Points to be added to LH file
Is there a specific reason it's not carried on I-480 to the state line? Seems odd.
Denison west of US 59: ChaDr http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.998778&lon=-95.381048
Carroll east of downtown: GraRd http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.064054&lon=-94.859262
Belle Plaine just east of IA 21_S (see below): 8thAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.897070&lon=-92.276616
Belle Plaine LOOP
LinHwy_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.906589&lon=-92.296550
21stSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.906597&lon=-92.278569
7thAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.903906&lon=-92.278547
19thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.903890&lon=-92.276680
LinHwy_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.897070&lon=-92.276616
Cedar Rapids
"West Post Road" and "East Post Road" are not cardinal directions tied to the street grid, so those should be WestPostRd_S, WestPostRd_N, and EastPostRd.
The Wapsi bridges on old 30 are closed for good and the through route has to be moved onto 142nd Avenue and 30. Signage has yet to be updated because, see above.
235thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.833055&lon=-90.816164
NEW US30_Whe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.829665&lon=-90.816035
(keep current US30_Whe but rename as 154thAve)
US 30/61 to east of DeWitt, currently missing deviation from old 30 and needing county road junctions:
US30/61 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825700&lon=-90.569572
11thSt_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825796&lon=-90.547214
6thAve http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825172&lon=-90.539017
5thAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.825220&lon=-90.537493
11thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.826196&lon=-90.537493
CRY70 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.826403&lon=-90.529490
245thSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.822790&lon=-90.458121
CRZ24_N http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.819464&lon=-90.452371
US30_DW http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.815338&lon=-90.451813
Nebraska Lincoln Highway
What's there is neat but the official Nebraska Byway just follows US 30 across the state. Unimaginative, I know.
Lewis and Clark Trail(s)
I was going to say that Iowa's has no reason to exist since it's simply following I-29, but I saw you did it for other states. It's odd/wild that Nebraska and Kansas don't have theirs join up.
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Not sure where you're getting 6-7 weeks/40-50 days from.
I think that the Easter egg is meant to last for the (Western Christian) Eastertide only. Sure, we can agree on any succession, e.g. bringing the system back to devel status for fixing concurrencies, misalignments etc.
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Not sure where you're getting 6-7 weeks/40-50 days from.
I think that the Easter egg is meant to last for the (Western Christian) Eastertide only. Sure, we can agree on any succession, e.g. bringing the system back to devel status for fixing concurrencies, misalignments etc.
Interesting. I can't say I'm really familiar with Eastertide, but from looking it up, it appears to be a "high church" (Catholic and denominations that are very nearly Catholic) thing. And for a while, it was sounding like this would become immediately permanent...
I'll have to pay more attention next year to see if anything appears. I didn't even know that Easter eggs on this site were a thing until this thread popped up.
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The railway stuff was originally an Easter Egg a few years ago.
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Back at my PC for a few hours for the first time since Monday - I'll try and see what fixes I can get sorted. But then I'm away again until Wednesday. Keep updates coming - I'll get to them at some point in the next couple of weeks.
I've had IA and IL Lincoln Highway routes ready to go for YEARS. But, since this system is up there right now as at least temporarily a thing, I will comment on the idea that these could be used later (and then your source files can be my source files).
Oh yes, I'm sure other collaborators have personal files for some of these routes. By all means preference your own work over mine in your states if you desire!
Is there a specific reason it's not carried on I-480 to the state line? Seems odd.
No signs saying it goes that way and nothing on the other side to even do an implied connection.
Nebraska Lincoln Highway
What's there is neat but the official Nebraska Byway just follows US 30 across the state. Unimaginative, I know.
I didn't see any signs for that official byway routing (though I wouldn't bet against neroute2 finding one!).
I would far prefer that usatr fall back to devel status, rather than going away, until the questions about it can be discussed and decisions made.
That's a very reasonable solution.
Interesting. I can't say I'm really familiar with Eastertide, but from looking it up, it appears to be a "high church" (Catholic and denominations that are very nearly Catholic) thing.
It may be a high church word, but the non-denominational 'Independent' basically-Baptist church that was pretty low I went to when I lived elsewhere had the concept - a time between Easter Sunday and Ascension/Pentecost to focus on Easter - just as Advent was (wrongly if you are High Church) a time to focus on Christmas.
If there is interest in railways - including updating systems. I noticed that dropped off (except for Si's) - I also noticed there were no boards for helping review them - too alpha?
There are boards for review, albeit in a collaborator's only section. However the whole thing has kind of hit the buffers. The systems people want are mostly in. They are mostly unchanging so don't need updating (only forthcoming one I can think of in North America that might happen this year is if the temporary F routing becomes permanent with the M taking the old route that's currently undergoing works), and we haven't finalised a manual so they can't be fully reviewed.
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Aid-memoire for me for future me in a couple of days. These are what I haven't yet addressed (I've also looked for duplicate labels and other such errors).
The Seaway Trail in Erie has an annoying one-way pair. Eastbound is as shown (missing sign for the turn onto 6th (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1033115,-80.1558992,3a,15y,100.07h,88.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxhMKEX8lrA1MHZFCX8akFQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)), but westbound stays on Bayfront to 8th.
LECT signage seems to completely disappear west of Geneva OH (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8053433,-80.9476681,3a,20.7y,232.87h,94.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp0A2qMSwEtbQ5CriZrj-Wg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), with signs only for the Lake Erie Coastal Ohio Trail (which has a different route in places). This has been true since 2008 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7053747,-81.3612611,3a,36.3y,33.66h,90.18t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svxpMcyx6QiuAuNYoQlrTKg!2e0!5s20080901T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu) or earlier. Signs return where it hops onto I-90 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5618335,-81.5917863,3a,15y,256.12h,90.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl_zsuPETCwqY48jr0xKy0A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Another issue with the Seaway Trail - it doesn't follow NY 5 west of Hamburg (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7357416,-78.9166413,3a,43.1y,248.9h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sktTyGitI_GCZ6m2jFt_9RA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Unfortunately, signage isn't entirely clear west of that point. It appears to follow the route in this map (https://scenicbyways.info/byway/2200.html) around there, but there are locations where it doesn't follow the route in that map (like around I-190, the LaSalle, and NY 384). I expect each turn will need to be verified to get the correct route.
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Another issue with the Seaway Trail - it doesn't follow NY 5 west of Hamburg (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7357416,-78.9166413,3a,43.1y,248.9h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sktTyGitI_GCZ6m2jFt_9RA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Unfortunately, signage isn't entirely clear west of that point. It appears to follow the route in this map (https://scenicbyways.info/byway/2200.html) around there, but there are locations where it doesn't follow the route in that map (like around I-190, the LaSalle, and NY 384). I expect each turn will need to be verified to get the correct route.
That map is not quite right; it stays on Lake Shore Road at Dennis Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6756599,-79.040638,3a,31.4y,230.22h,89.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTJfo0kBL_EQKa13ir3Rhqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). I can't find any current signs at the return to NY 5 in the Seneca Nation, but it was signed to turn off at OldLSRd in 2007 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5788599,-79.1065584,3a,15y,33.62h,89.42t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEWJ0nkhLlAJBg7WOe4zdmw!2e0!5s20071001T000000!7i3328!8i1664?entry=ttu).
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There are boards for review, albeit in a collaborator's only section. However the whole thing has kind of hit the buffers. The systems people want are mostly in. They are mostly unchanging so don't need updating (only forthcoming one I can think of in North America that might happen this year is if the temporary F routing becomes permanent with the M taking the old route that's currently undergoing works), and we haven't finalised a manual so they can't be fully reviewed.
I took a look, and it appears that Amtrak is only an Easter egg over there. The idea of having a rail site without Amtrak is kinda wild. Maybe it should be "subway" or something if it's only supposed to be municipal transit systems?
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Aid-memoire for me for future me in a couple of days. These are what I haven't yet addressed (I've also looked for duplicate labels and other such errors).
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No big deal but unless I missed something, it appears that the two points below also have not been addressed yet.
Also... NY SeaTrl has a couple of point issues.
SeaTrl endpoints of NY14 overlap (NY14_N and NY14_S) do not exist as points on NY 14.
I-190 21 21B incorrectly shows concurrent with SeaTrl. SeaTrl follows the direct ramps from NiaScePkwyNia to NY384, although it is only 0.1 mile so it may be passable.
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The Seaway Trail in Erie has an annoying one-way pair. Eastbound is as shown (missing sign for the turn onto 6th (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1033115,-80.1558992,3a,15y,100.07h,88.96t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxhMKEX8lrA1MHZFCX8akFQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)), but westbound stays on Bayfront to 8th.
I am open to suggestions on this. I do not really want to fix the broken concurrencies here before we decide how the Seaway Trail should be mapped.
The LECT already being on PA 5 ALT makes me want to go no-build, but I am not fully satisfied right now with that either.
And I just found this.... (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Buseck+Barger+Bleil+%26+Co/@42.120058,-80.1109435,3a,75y,250.32h,76.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEcgUeZ9g2aJv8YaTR1v81Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m7!3m6!1s0x88327f92b766daa7:0xb64f5d3e7730b014!8m2!3d42.1140665!4d-80.1211944!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F1tfmjgd_?entry=ttu) (so I am leaning even more towards no-build)
Anyway, I just fixed the US 40/National Rd Concurrency. (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7318)
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I'm supporting a demotion to devel now.
The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)
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I'm supporting a demotion to devel now.
The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)
You're wrong. Check signage, especially in Illinois.
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IA Lincoln Highway, State Center:
CRE41_W http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.018497&lon=-93.174870
3rdSt_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.018410&lon=-93.167253
3rdAve_S http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.016194&lon=-93.166679
+XLH07 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.017509&lon=-93.157356
CRE41_E http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=42.014735&lon=-93.156498
GRR: Apparently Illinois does have signs for a "National Route" that Iowa does not follow. This "National Route" jumps into Iowa between Fort Madison and Muscatine with a "state"(?) version in between.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4164618,-91.0311489,3a,15y,205.46h,89.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxheeMXXbms-NLyoJxzgX2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4262291,-91.0368615,3a,75y,55.1h,88.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0-G98IP00DR4_Y9vBnirw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
To my surprise, after a triple-check, the IL GRR is not signed along IL 35 at all, again instead with a "National Route" across the Julien Dubuque Bridge, even though Wisconsin signs it down WI 35 and Iowa has no signage carrying it across the US 20 or US 61/151 bridges.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5198588,-90.6071346,3a,87.5y,98.36h,96.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stw_ldlq7GfKXjqE9u5cGig!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Ditto a jump across the river at Chester, but Missouri forks it at the US 61/MO 51 intersection, with a southbound sign showing a turn but then the first US 61 sign after still has the GRR underneath:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.908531,-89.8313247,3a,59.2y,310.32h,92.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR4EpZmf_VKyKcIVFwardUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7436692,-89.8758363,3a,15y,179.04h,89.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soA8F90TkYdAk4v3do7TOGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
So Illinois thinks a "National" GRR jumps the river, but Iowa and Wisconsin adhere to having their own GRR's that never cross. Minnesota has a fork in the GRR at the US 61/10 split to get a branch to Prescott WI, and both are signed "National Route".
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7669182,-92.8584674,3a,86.1y,56.35h,98.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scmczeVqP2E-55TQBlULycg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
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So Illinois thinks a "National" GRR jumps the river, but Iowa and Wisconsin adhere to having their own GRR's that never cross. Minnesota has a fork in the GRR at the US 61/10 split to get a branch to Prescott WI, and both are signed "National Route".
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7669182,-92.8584674,3a,86.1y,56.35h,98.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scmczeVqP2E-55TQBlULycg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
The fork is to the south at Hastings. The westbank route south of there does seem to be signed correctly without a plate (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7191263,-92.8492198,3a,15y,132.78h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSMWYnDmrNTliYUm4VZks1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) for the most part.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=ien.35556020280913&seq=45
Per this mileage, the national route makes the following crossings:
*A bunch in Minnesota north of Hastings (looks like the extension to Canada was a state route)
eastbank in Wisconsin to
*Black Hawk Bridge (Lansing)
westbank in Iowa to
*Julien Dubuque Bridge (Dubuque)
eastbank in Illinois to
*Beckey Bridge (Muscatine)
westbank in Iowa to
*Fort Madison Bridge (Fort Madison)
eastbank in Illinois to
*Mark Twain Bridge (Hannibal)
westbank in Missouri to
*Chester Bridge (Chester)
eastbank in Illinois-Kentucky-Tennessee to
*Memphis-Arkansas Bridge (Memphis)? (this matches Arkansas mileage, but Tennessee seems way off)
westbank in Arkansas to
*Greenville Bridge (Greenville)
eastbank in Mississippi-Louisiana to
*Wilkinson Bridge (Baton Rouge) (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=ien.35556020280913&seq=142)
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There don't seem to be any GRR signs on the Dubuque Wisconsin Bridge in either state, and signs point it off US 151 in Iowa (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4992637,-90.6624253,3a,15.6y,38.76h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDuwmnbxTIu0gaelN-ieiNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Wisconsin (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5219359,-90.6147551,3a,28.3y,217.8h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smeCCEvBFxa435ptmmaRx1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). So that would mean IA GRRDub should only be the part south of US61/151_S (which is only implicitly signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.491885,-90.6638788,3a,15y,316.83h,87.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7SJwLgrKT-wUkxLfy1A7CQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), so maybe it shouldn't exist at all, but it's officially part of the national route as signed from Illinois), and WI GRR should eat WI GRREDu.
PS: coloring https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=usatr by traveler count and looking for black segments can help find broken overlaps.
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I worked today to make changes for syncing in regard to the LECT, Seaman Trail, and Lincoln Hwy.
There are NMPs near the US 30/PA 234 intersection so there will be at least one more pull request in regard to this.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7322
On a side note, LakShoDr_N>-LakeShoDr_N and the new HayDr point on US 41 need to be added to the LMCT. (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=6140.msg34083#msg34083)
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I'm fine with keeping the system around. We have systems like this in other parts of the world, it's entirely logical to have them in North America too.
That said, I would suggest keeping the scope of this system limited to routes signed with shields that span multiple jurisdictions. Great River Road, Historic Lincoln Highway, etc... this is the type of stuff people have wanted and that we're answering demand for. But many states maintain a bunch of their own named tourist routes (usually entirely concurrent with routes already in other systems), and in some cases even counties do. That stuff is cruft and oughtn't be involved. There are also plenty of named scenic byways out there that don't have their own shields - also cruft, leave it out. Everything in there currently seems to pass these tests so that's good.
Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.
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There don't seem to be any GRR signs on the Dubuque Wisconsin Bridge in either state, and signs point it off US 151 in Iowa (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4992637,-90.6624253,3a,15.6y,38.76h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDuwmnbxTIu0gaelN-ieiNw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Wisconsin (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5219359,-90.6147551,3a,28.3y,217.8h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smeCCEvBFxa435ptmmaRx1A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). So that would mean IA GRRDub should only be the part south of US61/151_S (which is only implicitly signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.491885,-90.6638788,3a,15y,316.83h,87.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7SJwLgrKT-wUkxLfy1A7CQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), so maybe it shouldn't exist at all, but it's officially part of the national route as signed from Illinois), and WI GRR should eat WI GRREDu.
PS: coloring https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?sys=usatr by traveler count and looking for black segments can help find broken overlaps.
There are not - I commute the route regularly. The WI GRR follows WIS 11 to WIS 35 as Highway63 said. The IA GRR Exits 61/151 at 9/11th streets and follows one of them (have to check again) to Central/White St (the former route of US-52 basically until Sageville). The IL Route does have signs on 20, but not the bridge. RE IL-35, the lack of signs there is true (there are none)
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I'm fine with keeping the system around. We have systems like this in other parts of the world, it's entirely logical to have them in North America too.
That said, I would suggest keeping the scope of this system limited to routes signed with shields that span multiple jurisdictions. Great River Road, Historic Lincoln Highway, etc... this is the type of stuff people have wanted and that we're answering demand for. But many states maintain a bunch of their own named tourist routes (usually entirely concurrent with routes already in other systems), and in some cases even counties do. That stuff is cruft and oughtn't be involved. There are also plenty of named scenic byways out there that don't have their own shields - also cruft, leave it out. Everything in there currently seems to pass these tests so that's good.
Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.
Why? EU has enough routes to saturate the JavaScript so it takes forever to load, why cant NA? :P
j/k ;)
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I'm supporting a demotion to devel now.
The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)
The GRR National Route crosses the river several times in Minnesota.
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I had to fix the section besides Westmoreland Mall and the broken concurrencies on the Lincoln Hwy by Fayetteville. (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7323)
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NE LinHwy seems to be out of alignment / broken concurrency with US 30 in a few places.
- segment between Sunol and Lodgepole (L17E <-> US30_LodW)
- segment between Chappelle and NE 27 (US30_ChaE <-> NE27_N)
- segment just west of Big Springs (Rd195 <-> US30_BigW)
- segment in Big Springs concurrent with US 138 (US138_E <-> US138_W).
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Made Iowa's GRR one route that doesn't cross the river. Ditto Wisconsin.
Kept Illinois and Minnesota the same (ie what's called 'National Route' by them form chopped routes with other routes being separate chopped routes).
Rerouted LH in State Centre, IL. Synced Lake Michigan Circle Tour with US41 changes*. Removed Lewis & Clark from IA as I only added it as I thought it connected to the SD/MO bits and so gave an implied routing, but it doesn't and so it's unsigned, IIRC.
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7324/files
*Here its me changing usatr files. Other broken concurrencies would be me changing other files, and I'm not doing that.
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Removed Lewis & Clark from IA as I only added it as I thought it connected to the SD/MO bits and so gave an implied routing, but it doesn't and so it's unsigned, IIRC.
I don't know how well it's signed, but it is (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6066349,-95.6829689,3a,15y,347.67h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJAlZbv2EHaSU2YxU6zk_Pg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
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I don't know how well it's signed, but it is (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6066349,-95.6829689,3a,15y,347.67h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJAlZbv2EHaSU2YxU6zk_Pg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I remembered incorrectly then. Reverting that change.
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Si, you have my permission to edit routes in IN, KY, LA, MI, OH, and TN wherever you need to add points for the usatr routes.
Also, there's a spur for the Seaway Trail (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1078202,-80.1536387,3a,88y,331.93h,80.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D331.93108459584425%26pitch%3D9.082659009402846%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) in Erie following PA 832.
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LCT has a connector on US 12 in Mobridge (east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5373706,-100.4276591,3a,15y,311.9h,93.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soNRKy3HEDKALyTYYx2iRKg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5738947,-100.4859829,3a,15y,150.15h,83.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBtUxHk_eaPdZ0xgBRGMSJg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
There is also one at Pierre (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3673434,-100.3793618,3a,17.2y,39.23h,96.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCGpTMS-ocV6FZU_V23HTyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)). Signage on the northbank between Pierre and Chamberlain is very sparse, and this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3671842,-100.3543374,3a,22y,174.6h,96.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvd8I760n5RzZvKZYrL-NQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) implies it's not there, but there is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8096082,-99.3319954,3a,15.1y,342.19h,89.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUBfVHdF2ys3CfPuFnRzmFA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
The LCT stays with SD 52 west of Yankton (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9086756,-97.5582393,3a,31.4y,130.42h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP6wcIh45IkiMhZL9QR_ndA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I can't find any LCT shields on I-29 south of SD 50, but there is this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6926911,-96.6985923,3a,43.5y,43.92h,87.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbOAtvgAuLoOcwLrdEzx9yg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) for a wayside exhibit.
LCT has a connector at Washburn (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2451196,-101.2977497,3a,21.2y,182.5h,91.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgCuDQeRezCylI0TyPg3-GA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2436495,-101.2959603,3a,18.4y,148.44h,90.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spJ7Ny-mA8Mnc0T_iJU9omQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
There is also one on ND 810 in Bismarck (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8222669,-100.8473991,3a,27.4y,154.66h,88.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ky_H5QTULoOUkguICQm5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7961105,-100.7818152,3a,26y,208.87h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxCpHdjxGccouWLEVOcCUXw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)). Finally this freeway gets added :)
LCTKen does not pass thru Kennebec. Instead it uses SD 47 north from Reliance (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8751702,-99.6054547,3a,15.2y,328.6h,88.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Kc_ZeBFfd5dg_P2tVUkjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to BIA 10 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9631431,-99.5863029,3a,15y,137.63h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAXxO0dEEZWou5Ea0KV4IGQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and presumably goes via Lower Brule to SD 1806.
The Yellowstone Trail also has signs in SD (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5371363,-100.3475286,3a,15y,113.01h,86.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siCiFp6oS7kLpI3leGJDC7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), but I haven't looked into how common they are.
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Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.
The BC routes also seem at first glance to be completely concurrent with canbc routes. To me, including such routes in a tourist route system is a waste of effort, both for whoever is developing the system, and also potential headaches for the maintainers of the concurrent routes. This is different from, say, the Lincoln Highway, which seems to include significant mileage not already in TM.
Also, the BC routes seem to be deemed part of an international Selkirk route system reaching into Idaho. Those Idaho routes not only are concurrent with Idaho state routes, but I've driven many of those concurrent routes, and never saw any signage indicating they were part of any scenic route system, Selkirk or otherwise. (Ditto the BC routes, though I haven't traveled them as extensively as the Idaho routes.)
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I'd be okay with the suggested demotion to devel. I love the idea of this system and stuff people have been wanting is in here, but a bunch of kinks to work out. Some of this stuff isn't super clear and I think we need to make some decisions.
I also think we need to have a detailed discussion about what counts/does not count as "signed", especially when signs are sporadic or follow multiple alignments, as well as "what counts as a sign?" For several of these auto trails, the main markings are paint or stone/concrete, not standard metal signs, and these nonstandard markings are clearly intended to serve as reassurance/directional assemblies in a way that EMMs or blade shields are not. This is especially relevant for the Lincoln Highway, because there are a crapton of painted shields and concrete markers along the route that people use for wayfinding, but other notable tourist/historic routes in the US are marked primarily with paint. Before the US Route system, paint and concrete markers were the original shields and were used as shields are used today, so I would argue that they should be grandfathered in, as some of the auto trail associations have been trying to maintain some semblance of historical accuracy with their signage.
As far as what's currently on the browser, the LH alignment along old US 40 in Sparks is signed east to McCarran Blvd. I can confirm there was a LH shield on that eastern segment as of last week. I can make that change myself in the coming days.
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Also, there's a spur for the Seaway Trail (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1078202,-80.1536387,3a,88y,331.93h,80.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D331.93108459584425%26pitch%3D9.082659009402846%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) in Erie following PA 832.
I saw that when I decided to replace the previous nearby hidden shaping point on PA 832.
Is there a way for me to prove whether this supposed spur goes into Presque Isle State Park or ends at the state park line like PA 832 itself? This page seems to indicate that it goes into the park. (https://fhwaapps.fhwa.dot.gov/bywaysp/byway/2488/map?mapId=544)
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I'm supporting a demotion to devel now.
The Great River Road does not cross the river. ever!. There are 2 general routes - one on each bank. You have instances of this crossing (i.e. US 61/151 from Dubuque US 20 to WIS-11)
The GRR National Route crosses the river several times in Minnesota.
The river - yes - state lines? Once. (With US 10 to connect WI's side properly) - North of that, There isn't a point (signed) to having GRR on each side since it's entirely within a state.
I can see the communication between Illinois and Iowa/Wisconsin is screwed up as usual (Julien Dubuque Bridge vs IL/WI 35) - but whatever; it's a tourist route. I do see where Missouri was happy to oblige in Hannibal.
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(But the route thru Vicksburg should remain in TM as US 61 Business.)
US 61 Business isn't in TM now, though it's been suggested for addition to usausb. Take it up with froggie.
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LCT has a connector on US 12 in Mobridge (east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5373706,-100.4276591,3a,15y,311.9h,93.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soNRKy3HEDKALyTYYx2iRKg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5738947,-100.4859829,3a,15y,150.15h,83.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBtUxHk_eaPdZ0xgBRGMSJg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
There is also one at Pierre (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3673434,-100.3793618,3a,17.2y,39.23h,96.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCGpTMS-ocV6FZU_V23HTyg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)). Signage on the northbank between Pierre and Chamberlain is very sparse, and this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3671842,-100.3543374,3a,22y,174.6h,96.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjvd8I760n5RzZvKZYrL-NQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) implies it's not there, but there is this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8096082,-99.3319954,3a,15.1y,342.19h,89.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUBfVHdF2ys3CfPuFnRzmFA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
The LCT stays with SD 52 west of Yankton (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9086756,-97.5582393,3a,31.4y,130.42h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP6wcIh45IkiMhZL9QR_ndA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I can't find any LCT shields on I-29 south of SD 50, but there is this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6926911,-96.6985923,3a,43.5y,43.92h,87.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbOAtvgAuLoOcwLrdEzx9yg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) for a wayside exhibit.
LCT has a connector at Washburn (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2451196,-101.2977497,3a,21.2y,182.5h,91.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgCuDQeRezCylI0TyPg3-GA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2436495,-101.2959603,3a,18.4y,148.44h,90.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spJ7Ny-mA8Mnc0T_iJU9omQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
There is also one on ND 810 in Bismarck (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.8222669,-100.8473991,3a,27.4y,154.66h,88.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9ky_H5QTULoOUkguICQm5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.7961105,-100.7818152,3a,26y,208.87h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxCpHdjxGccouWLEVOcCUXw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)). Finally this freeway gets added :)
LCTKen does not pass thru Kennebec. Instead it uses SD 47 north from Reliance (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8751702,-99.6054547,3a,15.2y,328.6h,88.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Kc_ZeBFfd5dg_P2tVUkjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to BIA 10 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9631431,-99.5863029,3a,15y,137.63h,88.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAXxO0dEEZWou5Ea0KV4IGQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and presumably goes via Lower Brule to SD 1806.
The Yellowstone Trail also has signs in SD (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5371363,-100.3475286,3a,15y,113.01h,86.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siCiFp6oS7kLpI3leGJDC7w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), but I haven't looked into how common they are.
For the East River Chamberlain to Pierre segment, Lewis & Clark follows the (BIA 4 cutoff (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9997053,-99.32709,3a,34.1y,44.18h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZa64a6DVux9GjJHdybraBg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to Ft. Thompson (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0696983,-99.4379087,3a,24.8y,16.7h,86.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAeDpcGKzq34xYim0PDbNuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), where it then presumably follows SD 47 and SD 34 to Pierre to link up with the rest (never seen signs along that stretch, but it's pre-existing mileage so including a poorly signed route isn't the end of the world).
As far as the link between Gregory (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2268353,-99.434,3a,15.3y,291.59h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sttnwBkLL-4GQpWN0tDVmpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Ft. Pierre (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3315537,-100.3565433,3a,15.3y,108.73h,87.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6-jOGl3gVTLx-eIzS3WZqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), I'd rather leave it on the current routing because the only evidence of the Lower Brule routing is the one sign that looks older than me, and that way we don't add any new mileage that doesn't have good signage to back it up. Still think it should be "Lewis & Clark Auto Trail (East River)" (SD LCTrl) and "Lewis & Clark Auto Trail (West River)" (SD LCTrlWRi), that way the cities can be used for the connectors/spurs.
Found a sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.1196514,-104.733873,3a,39.4y,48.36h,80.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqPcXCWvhS_5fO1IA1Sx1kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Montana! See below for more on badly signed official routings that are concurrent with existing mileage.
Si, I can handle the ND/MT/WY/CO issues that pop up on these routes, it'll give me something to do lol. If you want to keep em in those states, that's fine with me too.
To me, including such routes in a tourist route system is a waste of effort, both for whoever is developing the system, and also potential headaches for the maintainers of the concurrent routes.
I guess I'm fine with maintaining completely concurrent tourist routes, I have to deal with so many concurrencies anyway so what's one more? If there's a national tourist route with easily accessible maps, but one state/province doesn't sign it very well if at all (*cough* MONTANA *cough*) I'd include the legs in that state/province (so there's a cohesive national route) as long as they were concurrent with pre-existing mileage (that's just me though). This is kinda like US 87 in Colorado, which doesn't officially exist per CDOT but we have it in there anyway to link the national route together.
I guess on that note I'm gonna draft up the many Lewis and Clark routes in Montana now, sounds like fun!
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The LCT has a spur? into Weston MO (east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3995606,-94.8632035,3a,15y,204.76h,89.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX_WeOh_w1tBCFmxQ7j5Gyw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), west end? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4117063,-94.8955804,3a,15.4y,129.86h,89.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9V30Npyd1_SLKTaMAivJ2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
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For the East River Chamberlain to Pierre segment, Lewis & Clark follows the (BIA 4 cutoff (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9997053,-99.32709,3a,34.1y,44.18h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZa64a6DVux9GjJHdybraBg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to Ft. Thompson (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0696983,-99.4379087,3a,24.8y,16.7h,86.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAeDpcGKzq34xYim0PDbNuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), where it then presumably follows SD 47 and SD 34 to Pierre to link up with the rest (never seen signs along that stretch, but it's pre-existing mileage so including a poorly signed route isn't the end of the world).
That explains the missing signage :)
As far as the link between Gregory (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2268353,-99.434,3a,15.3y,291.59h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sttnwBkLL-4GQpWN0tDVmpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Ft. Pierre (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3315537,-100.3565433,3a,15.3y,108.73h,87.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6-jOGl3gVTLx-eIzS3WZqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), I'd rather leave it on the current routing because the only evidence of the Lower Brule routing is the one sign that looks older than me, and that way we don't add any new mileage that doesn't have good signage to back it up.
Here's a (north-facing) sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8761531,-99.6060001,3a,15y,216.86h,88.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syw0QoqE6lEIfkJgU6C3aow!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) that hasn't faded so badly. Another on BIA 10 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9636884,-99.5856761,3a,15.9y,225.73h,83.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scO7CcGkZth5OWl0I40_ieA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) at SD 47. There may be more at the north end of SD 273 but available imagery is too old.
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For the East River Chamberlain to Pierre segment, Lewis & Clark follows the (BIA 4 cutoff (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9997053,-99.32709,3a,34.1y,44.18h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZa64a6DVux9GjJHdybraBg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to Ft. Thompson (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0696983,-99.4379087,3a,24.8y,16.7h,86.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAeDpcGKzq34xYim0PDbNuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), where it then presumably follows SD 47 and SD 34 to Pierre to link up with the rest (never seen signs along that stretch, but it's pre-existing mileage so including a poorly signed route isn't the end of the world).
I found some signs along SD 47 and SD 34, confirming that the route you stated is correct:
SD 47 northbound in Fort Thompson (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0698867,-99.4379121,3a,49.1y,26.99h,86.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjUCS650fNZbqYuGBD9Y7LQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
SD 34 eastbound/SD 47 southbound approaching Fort Thompson (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0814194,-99.438063,3a,75y,204.65h,86.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxT9-7nm5C8sMAhqKjIThQQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
SD 34 eastbound approaching SD 47 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.256693,-99.448095,3a,49.4y,127.79h,84.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNek7Yh2HJ_snZ8omrIWqNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Also, I'd like to vote in favor of keeping this system around.
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The LCT has a spur? into Weston MO (east end (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3995606,-94.8632035,3a,15y,204.76h,89.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX_WeOh_w1tBCFmxQ7j5Gyw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), west end? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4117063,-94.8955804,3a,15.4y,129.86h,89.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9V30Npyd1_SLKTaMAivJ2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
Yes, this is a spur. I've been to/through Weston numerous times on that.
As far as the link between Gregory (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2268353,-99.434,3a,15.3y,291.59h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sttnwBkLL-4GQpWN0tDVmpw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and Ft. Pierre (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3315537,-100.3565433,3a,15.3y,108.73h,87.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6-jOGl3gVTLx-eIzS3WZqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), I'd rather leave it on the current routing because the only evidence of the Lower Brule routing is the one sign that looks older than me, and that way we don't add any new mileage that doesn't have good signage to back it up.
Here's a (north-facing) sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8761531,-99.6060001,3a,15y,216.86h,88.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syw0QoqE6lEIfkJgU6C3aow!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) that hasn't faded so badly. Another on BIA 10 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9636884,-99.5856761,3a,15.9y,225.73h,83.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scO7CcGkZth5OWl0I40_ieA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) at SD 47. There may be more at the north end of SD 273 but available imagery is too old.
Well I might have to check that out then. I'm going to Pierre next week so we'll see if I can find the time to go that way. Looked at streetview in Lower Brule though, and didn't find any signage.
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The National Road is signed west into East St. Louis. It turns off the route we have at West Collinsville Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7293683,-89.8850842,3a,75y,347.12h,85.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLaBH7Sy_X3M-Z3U7fby0-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Troy. It follows the south frontage road of I-70, then IL 159 into Collinsville (where signage is wonky), then Clay/Main to Combs-Main-St. Louis and Collinsville Road into 9th-10th, then Broadway to the Eads Bridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6263221,-90.1633518,3a,17.2y,347.31h,88.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sozeaySQ2D__lgA4hXFzmAg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
The National Road uses IL 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7160465,-89.7999773,3a,15.4y,106.28h,87.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sed8iGXon2YfNMd7XS59f6A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to Ellis Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7143185,-89.8035407,3a,31y,236.27h,85.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLVmqpDPMfxc32gDZSE2uSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Highland Road-Broadway-IL 160 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7399366,-89.6716253,3a,15.1y,48.06h,88.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQsnio8jOHfRPiey_XShL2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) back to US 40.
The National Road has a spur in Greenville that loops on Main-Elm-College.
The National Road uses 3rd-Jefferson in Effingham.
The National Road uses Cumberland Road thru Jewett.
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Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.
Breaking up a connected route because there's an international border there seems dumb. Either we tolerate an International Route in a USA system, or the system becomes natr.
The BC routes also seem at first glance to be completely concurrent with canbc routes. To me, including such routes in a tourist route system is a waste of effort, both for whoever is developing the system, and also potential headaches for the maintainers of the concurrent routes. This is different from, say, the Lincoln Highway, which seems to include significant mileage not already in TM.
I understand, and accept this argument (though personally I'm unfussed about a plethora of concurrent routes) - it does make everything harder to maintain. However the route is not entirely concurrent with other routes: the south side of this route (https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=wa.sellpsstflo) and the southeast corner of this route (https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=id.sellpsstsla) are not.
Plus, if we didn't include it, it would be the only multi-state All American Road (well, after I've got the Volcanic Legacy Scenic Byway added to this system this evening) that we didn't include on TM (as far as possible to do so) as a single route. OK, the Beartooth Highway is in as US212, and the Newfound Gap Road Byway as US441, rather than under their names.
Also, the BC routes seem to be deemed part of an international Selkirk route system reaching into Idaho. Those Idaho routes not only are concurrent with Idaho state routes, but I've driven many of those concurrent routes, and never saw any signage indicating they were part of any scenic route system, Selkirk or otherwise. (Ditto the BC routes, though I haven't traveled them as extensively as the Idaho routes.)
You never saw the signs? I found, on Streetview, that these were pretty average in terms of signage - not tons of signs, but only maybe 1 or 2 junctions where it was hard to find signs.
Below are 5 for each of the three jurisdictions (all at different junctions).
BC: 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.6256887,-116.9593609,3a,15y,2h,92.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spO4VwivIDorGQv0S5ZExEA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.4395814,-117.5355946,3a,15y,228.64h,89.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqwZK7wpv2R-NvOoi5AzpgA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0765239,-117.2760901,3a,30y,209.99h,91.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0sQUq3WZgn-thvbbhb7Bsg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1184292,-116.5251448,3a,15y,98.7h,89.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMtRhu6fDolrMMGQdIihbWw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 5 (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0742946,-116.1433274,3a,15y,86.12h,86.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXKFXftk8Wowx4HYA0CZ6NQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
ID: 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.7324894,-116.2992596,3a,15y,223.86h,88.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgl623TbCjy9jiy6ivc2zmA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8763164,-116.3404573,3a,15y,6.22h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5K0RbhkUcqU2ZStfuat8rA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.1840383,-117.0389084,3a,38y,312.82h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ5X2S3991i09BXsRdNFAyA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9529195,-116.8671106,3a,15y,299.31h,85.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUWfcWD_DrksBNr8bOpedKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 5 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.9478636,-116.6970487,3a,15y,122h,88.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5477F75KyoWUOrDCPpv74g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
WA: 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.6851163,-117.4090853,3a,15y,104.55h,88.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJmqEBxhfjugCawuD5OAc6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.5458539,-117.905879,3a,15y,51.76h,88.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFPHJrtU85oP3Og1tyOSeFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 3 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.2762249,-117.7154059,3a,42.8y,-1.02h,88.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOSN8gmd74uvwjYJHxLT14Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.3125847,-117.2889036,3a,15y,175.31h,88.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGz0x03oWJX_-fiGQn7EIAw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), 5 (https://www.google.com/maps/@48.184075,-117.0436804,3a,41.2y,296.02h,90.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2X5Mp6CmNwC-bCQMCxUCZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
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National Road in Indiana (mostly US 40):
Ohio line (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8331882,-84.8199229,3a,15y,290.81h,89.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skogwqXCRVmSACFLhTsTyxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Main Street thru Richmond (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8296747,-84.88031,3a,15y,278.99h,97.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa-FmEEf26GzPNYyDiGOhHA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to presumably 5th Street (where old Automobile Blue Books have traffic turn)
Old National Road thru Dunreith-Ogden-Raysville (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8024306,-85.4350611,3a,33.3y,288.03h,90.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFTOf37u-zPUVbLACTDq1MQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Old US 40 thru Indy (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7727898,-86.032307,3a,17.2y,295.91h,101.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssGvHEI-T1mpxG0KNhUX7_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Example sign on US 40 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5836694,-86.8215927,3a,15.3y,266.53h,90.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjhRTASleW7f0wBkBnTtCDA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
35E/25W east of Putnamville (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5778647,-86.8425115,3a,31y,288.49h,85.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stP1G_zfxIwPFuOjCk4lBXQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
750S west of Manhattan (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5504685,-86.9733236,3a,34.7y,310.08h,88.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ70JxQWDHDT1poX6tmvmbg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
SR 340 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5206325,-87.1383819,3a,32.4y,251.87h,93.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6pVt1-qB7PNZTgqgFpuhYA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Wabash Avenue in Terre Haute (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4665172,-87.4136287,3a,15y,122.94h,88.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skZjK-DFNkPZTpEOrgUIOaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Old US 40 in West Terre Haute (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4659651,-87.4472448,3a,75y,283.26h,87.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCxfFj5hUBXlzViQrvDMo1g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Illiana Drive near the state line (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.444461,-87.5067209,3a,41y,247.68h,87.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scFqeFSa6b6yRwi3BNnRvLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
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Typo in the IA Belle Plaine Lincoln Highway loop (LinHwyLpBel): 135th St->13thSt.
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The routing for the National Road in Ohio differs slightly from what ODOT has highlighted here: https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html (https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html)
I haven't checked everything, but TM's routing on the west side of Cambridge is contradicted by at least one sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.015909,-81.6155026,3a,26.8y,66.43h,88.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCwLlftMasf54Aubt02jTQA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DCwLlftMasf54Aubt02jTQA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D66.42882627948761%26pitch%3D1.156774505807718%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu).
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Also, there's a spur for the Seaway Trail (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1078202,-80.1536387,3a,88y,331.93h,80.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw7eMFkE5O26OrNe4mlq1Xw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D331.93108459584425%26pitch%3D9.082659009402846%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) in Erie following PA 832.
I saw that when I decided to replace the previous nearby hidden shaping point on PA 832.
Is there a way for me to prove whether this supposed spur goes into Presque Isle State Park or ends at the state park line like PA 832 itself? This page seems to indicate that it goes into the park. (https://fhwaapps.fhwa.dot.gov/bywaysp/byway/2488/map?mapId=544)
I did loop the spur into the park leading to a Duplicate Coordinates Error that I will have to mark as a FP. https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7328
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I can't find any National Road signs in downtown Columbus OH; https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html shows it using either Grant or Drexel, not 3rd/4th. https://www.franklincountyengineer.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF/TravelersGuide.pdf (p. 26) says the National Road originally used High and later moved to Drexel, giving Drexel as the route to follow now.
Bridgeville Drive west of Norwich (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9700047,-81.8619829,3a,17.1y,278.87h,91.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syiQ3Fw9Qluwayr0h2wAqgQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
US 40 west of Cambridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.015909,-81.6155026,3a,16y,74.51h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCwLlftMasf54Aubt02jTQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), NOT Manila Road (but Fairdale Road is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0115873,-81.6401556,3a,17.2y,117.14h,91.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDQ3dvInmCv7AmngDyi1nxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu))
Peacock Road west of Old Washington has a small OLD NATIONAL ROAD TOUR (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0270498,-81.5021681,3a,15y,99.41h,92.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEhDzUQZYLa8kviVXzrc5LQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) sign (posted by Guernsey County).
This tour sign points right (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.036171,-81.434521,3a,15.1y,347.48h,70.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1rqjB4ppqXWRcRLBNOGqSg!2e0!5s20220901T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), implying it loops east to use Old National Road thru Old Washington - and this (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0388612,-81.4465814,3a,16.9y,146.17h,89.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su0LQu_Ak1Y8edSSwL0aMew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) is a bigger sign confirming it.
There's another tour sign on Bridgewater Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.053276,-81.3256321,3a,15y,305.45h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfmIpU-6c-nY85Mg6k6pYsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of SR 513, but I don't see any east of SR 513. Perhaps this should be a gap, since half of our route was never the National Road. Or take it on I-70 like https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html shows, but there doesn't seem to be any signage to the east to and along SR 800 either. So have a gap until I-70 exit 204?
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National Road in WV/PA:
Camino Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0660151,-81.0612978,3a,28.2y,283.84h,83.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svSCNqf5JLS7f8-RdkETbYA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in WV, Old National Pike (https://gis.penndot.gov/videologimages/fullsize/2021/PA2021CO62/Batch03020210727.150019/000000206168.jpg) in PA
Old National Pike (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1564471,-80.2929712,3a,15y,65.38h,94.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJAF5tHhJKuOaUQI_ZEbGgA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Washington
Old National Pike (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0455799,-79.9760705,3a,18.6y,297.83h,87.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOjUwFgRv2EGhrLNr_Y3LEg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Centerville and east (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.04161,-79.9409683,3a,18y,328.48h,91.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sID1O0CDKZ-di3JFCFGfosA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Main Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7453632,-79.331213,3a,16.2y,299.3h,92.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqEvDjsgEIbTkq7Y2G8hcQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Addison
Old Route 40 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.722092,-79.3062134,3a,19.2y,299.25h,94.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_tHNuMNDHylOWx2EZHrZwg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) near the Maryland line
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Also the BC routes need to be moved to a cantr system as those are not in the United States.
Breaking up a connected route because there's an international border there seems dumb. Either we tolerate an International Route in a USA system, or the system becomes natr.
I would be fine with making it natr.
Though, this plus the GSP/PIP drama keeping usanyp from being activated suggests to me that really the ideal would be to have it be possible to have connected routes that span multiple systems. But I can appreciate that this is probably not easy to implement without a massive rework of things due to how each system gets its own _con.csv.
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MD National Road:
Eastbound uses Mulberry (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6404554,-77.7169437,3a,15y,152.21h,89.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSwKp55UbwDsOcUICe_yxVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and westbound uses Locust (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6378464,-77.7197168,3a,15.7y,334.74h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR3H6Yzv8Uo5OJo3qZSkjmw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Hagerstown. Neither direction uses Potomac.
Eastbound in Frederick uses East Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4102502,-77.4067868,3a,23.6y,108.58h,89.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd2usyit_GLNwl9h1uA31Cg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), while MD 144 east continues to Franklin. But westbound is the same. So should the overlap be broken or not?
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I can't find any LCT shields in Lewiston ID, but another national scenic byway (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4202907,-117.0336884,3a,75y,18.21h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQbWISPiIDo8Ik8wG1N6EiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) stays on US 12, so perhaps the LCT should too.
Another potential route: The Oregon Trail (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4202907,-117.0336884,3a,75y,18.21h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQbWISPiIDo8Ik8wG1N6EiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
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The route of the Volcanic Legacy Scenic Byway in Oregon between Fort Klamath and Klamath Falls is incorrect. Instead of following OR 62 all the way to U.S. 97, the VLSB leaves OR 62 and continues straight ahead in Fort Klamath (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7016485,-121.9959015,3a,41.3y,187.77h,89.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN8J6E4rmx8_kfMJfQgYEMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), staying to the west of Agency Lake and Upper Klamath Lake before meeting OR 140 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4484347,-122.1143824,3a,35.9y,245.31h,92.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdKRwDr8IOxC66VpLC_9Iwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), which it follows to U.S. 97 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.188424,-121.8007276,3a,21.5y,28.01h,91.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOnLocviRYvnEw4FEchk6-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). The signage matches the route shown on this map (https://fhwaapps.fhwa.dot.gov/bywaysp/byway/2587/map?mapId=582) on the FHA's website.
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I see you added the National Road in Indiana; thanks. It should be split from US 40 for at least two blocks east of US 27 in Richmond, since the alignments are completely different.
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PA Lincoln Highway:
Wolfsburg Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0482385,-78.5348478,3a,15.2y,124.37h,86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_SWN6glgzofoTJmbroh0TQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Bedford
Cemetery Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.048859,-78.6495017,3a,15.1y,240.2h,88.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJj8Bjn5vUKBGSrg_h1DQDQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Schellsburg
Strangely there's nothing on Old Lincoln Highway east of Stoystown.
Old Lincoln Highway (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2486103,-79.2483163,3a,15y,22.07h,89.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV2dnUYZuRgM48dn2k6hjUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Ligonier, coming in just before this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2603214,-79.2642688,3a,15y,335.13h,89.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_TdGsfq6T9FTYXBMQ8EOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on US 30
OH Lincoln Highway:
Lincoln Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7494353,-80.9392743,3a,15y,70.52h,87.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWIkbUVj7ABxC4-pX7v1fWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Hanoverton
Cindell Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.767587,-81.2146156,3a,15.1y,332.62h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRK8pAHLBMCum-pTjzEpvXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Robertsville, and another piece (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7760224,-81.2434496,3a,16.8y,332.05h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suGKCRBZJ935mQhOHa_eCtA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (but of course not the stubs south of US 30)
Two routes are signed west of Mansfield. (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7590268,-82.5376475,3a,19.7y,317.91h,81.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKLKwBuncI68j0Rv2wXJPug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) Here's an example of a sign along the southern route. (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7341341,-82.8058594,3a,15y,296.03h,89.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soGBZL1tdu0A2J7AzvJZF8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) As far as I can tell, it simply uses 430-309-19 to Bucyrus, but then jogs one block on Charles (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8054216,-82.9744492,3a,15y,117.9h,87.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPwZQgol6-SONjRM9z94FYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), ending at Washington Square (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8084949,-82.9759925,3a,15y,121.57h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5AZbBsXsIsEaGQbL6nd-6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Another old route is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8262802,-83.1329381,3a,15y,139.11h,87.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC8mMhTkjtmexwZ2LNOb7Vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) between Bucyrus and Upper Sandusky. It begins on Nevada-Winford Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8190577,-83.0161379,3a,15.6y,351.7h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soZK2mwujWzXy4qfKDHh-Jg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and jogs north in Nevada to CH 182, ending on Reservoir Road.
Another old route is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8032377,-83.3246962,3a,15.7y,120.58h,82.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sou4WWzdPmoyqorXLSvbrrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) along 199-Crawford (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8237202,-83.2813673,3a,15y,213.56h,85.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg7q3phgla3i49pJH9CrT_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-53-81 between Upper Sandusky and Ada, then turns south on 235 and west on CR 60 (signs are missing but this is the route in the 1920 Automobile Blue Book). At Lima it probably comes in on North (the route in the 1920 Automobile Blue Book jogs south on Dewey to High, but that's been cut off) and then uses Main (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464825,-84.1055107,3a,15y,118.69h,88.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saii0XeBto_8xojVgBP45Kg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-McKibben (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7468834,-84.1085371,3a,25.5y,206.33h,87.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shSXRziHPBuLesWx2YOnA9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and then north on West into 65 to 115 to rejoin the main route.
A special 1913 alignment uses 235-309 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7328823,-83.824727,3a,15y,114.71h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8O-K0mPVvZVvSx6-fKezfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Bellefontaine-Market (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7399273,-84.1051438,3a,16.1y,219.29h,86.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgRPURLw7taHQEo5YukuEBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Main between south of Ada and Lima.
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IN Lincoln Highway:
Old SR 2 east of Valpo (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4982171,-86.9629915,3a,38y,56.5h,86.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sswcGcANnHmtGi30Zrk2-Hw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Otherwise it looks good.
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There's another tour sign on Bridgewater Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.053276,-81.3256321,3a,15y,305.45h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfmIpU-6c-nY85Mg6k6pYsw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of SR 513, but I don't see any east of SR 513.
one here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0560821,-81.2293439,3a,15y,275.56h,89.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szbIF4WAho6Y6YS2t22p83Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Perhaps this should be a gap, since half of our route was never the National Road. Or take it on I-70 like https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html shows,
I-70 would be a mistake, per the sign above. The PDF guide has the route off I-70, but with a break where it leaves the old alignment. Sadly there's no Streetview where the gap would be, so we can't check the bodge I did to avoid a gap (a touring route shouldn't have to only stick to the old route and then disappear - it should be a followable route - cf the signed twists crossing I-70 further west at Old Washington).
but there doesn't seem to be any signage to the east to and along SR 800 either.
There's this (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0603527,-81.1620139,3a,15.6y,291.63h,86.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s95wT25Bcn6BN9RYjJ4XazA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), which says OH800 is a byway (that signage was considered an error and abolished in 2022 according to AARW (https://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/Ohio_Scenic_Byway#cite_note-1) - however I can't check the source as Ohio DOT, like Iowa DOT, get around the EU's stupid cookie law that our stupid government haven't repealed by not allowing European access rather than spending a bit more money to have the stupid checkbox for European visitors) - ie it's a signo for the National Highway, using the generic instead of the specific.
Annoyingly the entirety of the Ohio River Scenic Byway in Ohio uses these signs, rather than the route specific one. Then again, Indiana uses the ORSB or LCTrl, or both, depending on what mood they are in and that's more complicated to deal with than the no build of 'it is not signed properly'!
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I can't find any National Road signs in downtown Columbus OH;
This one at Front/Broad? (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9619748,-83.0024162,3a,31.7y,94.96h,90.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbbu3QhN6ZeOAM4UTftX0PA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html shows it using either Grant or Drexel, not 3rd/4th. https://www.franklincountyengineer.org/wp-content/uploads/PDF/TravelersGuide.pdf (p. 26) says the National Road originally used High and later moved to Drexel, giving Drexel as the route to follow now.
signed here on Main west of Drexel (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9577434,-82.9657881,3a,49y,289.02h,85.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st1Pf8NNRkGMtR5d2ixIXiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). I bodged it by having it jump from Main to National on the route that's in the browser, but it can move to Grant or High.
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MD National Road:
Eastbound uses Mulberry (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6404554,-77.7169437,3a,15y,152.21h,89.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSwKp55UbwDsOcUICe_yxVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and westbound uses Locust (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6378464,-77.7197168,3a,15.7y,334.74h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR3H6Yzv8Uo5OJo3qZSkjmw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Hagerstown. Neither direction uses Potomac.
Eastbound in Frederick uses East Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4102502,-77.4067868,3a,23.6y,108.58h,89.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd2usyit_GLNwl9h1uA31Cg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), while MD 144 east continues to Franklin. But westbound is the same. So should the overlap be broken or not?
Here I've kept the overlaps along Mulberry (with US40Alt) and Patrick (with MD144) as concurrent with those routes, but this can be changed. Both existing routes are not well mapped.
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I can't find any LCT shields in Lewiston ID, but another national scenic byway (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4202907,-117.0336884,3a,75y,18.21h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQbWISPiIDo8Ik8wG1N6EiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) stays on US 12, so perhaps the LCT should too.
Another potential route: The Oregon Trail (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.4202907,-117.0336884,3a,75y,18.21h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQbWISPiIDo8Ik8wG1N6EiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
The Northwest Passage looks like an Idaho-only route.
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SD LCTrl is missing a point at Broadway Avenue in Pierre to match 14/83.
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OH Lincoln Highway:
Lincoln Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7494353,-80.9392743,3a,15y,70.52h,87.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWIkbUVj7ABxC4-pX7v1fWA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Hanoverton
Cindell Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.767587,-81.2146156,3a,15.1y,332.62h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRK8pAHLBMCum-pTjzEpvXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west of Robertsville, and another piece (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7760224,-81.2434496,3a,16.8y,332.05h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suGKCRBZJ935mQhOHa_eCtA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (but of course not the stubs south of US 30)
Two routes are signed west of Mansfield. (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7590268,-82.5376475,3a,19.7y,317.91h,81.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKLKwBuncI68j0Rv2wXJPug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) Here's an example of a sign along the southern route. (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7341341,-82.8058594,3a,15y,296.03h,89.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soGBZL1tdu0A2J7AzvJZF8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) As far as I can tell, it simply uses 430-309-19 to Bucyrus, but then jogs one block on Charles (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8054216,-82.9744492,3a,15y,117.9h,87.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPwZQgol6-SONjRM9z94FYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), ending at Washington Square (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8084949,-82.9759925,3a,15y,121.57h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5AZbBsXsIsEaGQbL6nd-6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Another old route is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8262802,-83.1329381,3a,15y,139.11h,87.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sC8mMhTkjtmexwZ2LNOb7Vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) between Bucyrus and Upper Sandusky. It begins on Nevada-Winford Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8190577,-83.0161379,3a,15.6y,351.7h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soZK2mwujWzXy4qfKDHh-Jg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and jogs north in Nevada to CH 182, ending on Reservoir Road.
Another old route is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8032377,-83.3246962,3a,15.7y,120.58h,82.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sou4WWzdPmoyqorXLSvbrrQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) along 199-Crawford (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8237202,-83.2813673,3a,15y,213.56h,85.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg7q3phgla3i49pJH9CrT_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-53-81 between Upper Sandusky and Ada, then turns south on 235 and west on CR 60 (signs are missing but this is the route in the 1920 Automobile Blue Book). At Lima it probably comes in on North (the route in the 1920 Automobile Blue Book jogs south on Dewey to High, but that's been cut off) and then uses Main (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464825,-84.1055107,3a,15y,118.69h,88.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saii0XeBto_8xojVgBP45Kg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-McKibben (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7468834,-84.1085371,3a,25.5y,206.33h,87.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shSXRziHPBuLesWx2YOnA9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and then north on West into 65 to 115 to rejoin the main route.
A special 1913 alignment uses 235-309 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7328823,-83.824727,3a,15y,114.71h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8O-K0mPVvZVvSx6-fKezfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Bellefontaine-Market (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7399273,-84.1051438,3a,16.1y,219.29h,86.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgRPURLw7taHQEo5YukuEBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Main between south of Ada and Lima.
Between Wooster and Bucyrus, there are two LH routings. There is the "main" LH route (which became US 30, before Ohio built their various expressway routings) and the 1913-1929 "original route.
The 1913 route follows (going east to west) US 250 from Wooster to Ashland, US 42 from Ashland to Mansfield, Oh 430/309 from Mansfield to Gallion, and Oh 19 from Gallion to Bucyrus. There is LH signage along these routes desinating the era they were part of the LH.
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The 1913 route follows (going east to west) US 250 from Wooster to Ashland, US 42 from Ashland to Mansfield,
Specifically, the 1913 route splits from the route we have in TM at Jefferson Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8082395,-82.0227308,3a,36.1y,203.32h,89.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sITNu36vbG6JN061B0gMVrA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and crosses U.S. 250 to Silver Road/TR 4 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.810632,-82.0304238,3a,36.1y,88.6h,81.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sr0_z5Y9nf4SzEDnn8d83lA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), before joining U.S. 250. It follows OH 96 into downtown Ashland, turns left onto Claremont Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8687157,-82.3168741,3a,48.6y,296.52h,90.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDJIDlhlE6vbYvszVM6QQqw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DDJIDlhlE6vbYvszVM6QQqw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D272.48627%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and then joins U.S. 42. The 1913 routing as shown at https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/ (https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/) leaves U.S. 42 at TR 1455, but that turn is not signed because it quickly leads to a gap where the original roadbed is long gone. Instead, the signs follow the "second generation" route that leaves U.S. 42 a little further down the road at TR1688 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8177389,-82.4031214,3a,15y,258.89h,85.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFdYTbh9stmQcrHIml6kCpg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), which quickly rejoins with the 1913 route. It continues straight along Windsor (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8103205,-82.4343098,3a,75y,63.73h,81.78t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWG24plrncxIO0DUzjpXt8w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DWG24plrncxIO0DUzjpXt8w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D22.48133%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7945734,-82.4445085,3a,75y,20.79h,72.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siseURnjXqhnyjLvCjQb75Q!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) back to U.S. 42 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.793951,-82.4448814,3a,37.4y,249.77h,86.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHQwR0e1cfhBaH6m7neWdMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). In Mansfield, the route supposedly turns onto 4th Street, but I could not find any signs at or near that turn.
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I also think we need to have a detailed discussion about what counts/does not count as "signed", especially when signs are sporadic or follow multiple alignments, as well as "what counts as a sign?" For several of these auto trails, the main markings are paint or stone/concrete, not standard metal signs, and these nonstandard markings are clearly intended to serve as reassurance/directional assemblies in a way that EMMs or blade shields are not. This is especially relevant for the Lincoln Highway, because there are a crapton of painted shields and concrete markers along the route that people use for wayfinding, but other notable tourist/historic routes in the US are marked primarily with paint. Before the US Route system, paint and concrete markers were the original shields and were used as shields are used today, so I would argue that they should be grandfathered in, as some of the auto trail associations have been trying to maintain some semblance of historical accuracy with their signage.
I've definitely counted painted signs (eg on telegraph poles), wherever I found them, but the concrete posts are usually useless for wayfinding (pretty small, especially the 'L' bit painted on, and many of them blending into the background, if not actually hidden in foliage or behind something) and so I've often not considered them as valid signage to extend a route/create a new route when drafting. Places where they make a big deal of them tend to count - not least because they tend to have bigger L signs pointing out the little post.
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More PA Updates in regard to the National Road and Lincoln Hwy. These updates include the WV portion that splits off of US 40 by the WV/PA Line. (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7329)
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National Road in IL:
Lockport Street in Plainfield (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6081751,-88.2021097,3a,21.4y,355.98h,89.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sra9eZejlenBT4-xrAvidMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west to Wallin Drive (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6080628,-88.2203562,3a,15y,277.97h,92.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s92HYe5peEHvYQj9w9HRM9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
135th Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6361536,-88.2223833,3a,28.2y,24.84h,86.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2KtTN8y9SXj1EWsUCpimUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Heggs Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6363818,-88.2506524,3a,30.6y,288.14h,90.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stiaWdmgSds64Zev567Ap9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-111th Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6795773,-88.2533493,3a,75y,40.52h,77.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sixmzKrg3hwtq5lpfnYkOXA!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Harvey Road (apparent gap in signage due to this split (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7099524,-88.2760347,3a,48.3y,179.2h,84.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMKE3JFBba0A2L3NmvRf3gA!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) being closed, but Treasure Drive is the obvious connection)
Benton Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7503745,-88.2882719,3a,15y,26.68h,87.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1Gc6aBQ4punGSS9niIgXyw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) all the way across Aurora, with westbound detouring to Downer Place west of State Street
Kaneville Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8891938,-88.3175344,3a,15y,298.4h,89.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9YF-9RdQrWKln-enN6jjHw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Keslinger Road-Schrader Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8795698,-88.5847787,3a,41.2y,309.03h,88.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgpzzXYJdppQ4fYEuqn-QpA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) west from Geneva
zigzag thru Creston (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9350716,-88.9721678,3a,15.7y,110.37h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svWDxfmHj9SHeFAM9awOdnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on Woodlawn-Cederholm-Main-North-Ridge-Cederholm-West
Lincoln Highway (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9340669,-89.065831,3a,15.9y,275.84h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEYweBw9_2zVb8sVKMfZH0g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Lincoln Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9216758,-89.0669059,3a,45y,117.62h,85.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stFTWLqGR1zqqLmLROcN7uA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Rochelle
There is a split between Ashton and Franklin Grove (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8670415,-89.2187446,3a,18.8y,303.59h,91.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stOdHrfrSkzHt3DJ79HQvaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), with the alternate staying on IL 38 and the original using Brown-Main-Richardson-Track (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8638279,-89.2261693,3a,31.8y,218.17h,86.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spCB8rkg8Roj_Xt7JMsePVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Elm (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8446446,-89.2988828,3a,15y,285.89h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sixu5joqyeeZDtG6HxIZtTg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Lahman (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8395599,-89.2994952,3a,16.1y,201.41h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq6ae1GLiXwu3q2_SJdH1NA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-Franklin-Gap (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8368305,-89.3120106,3a,75y,264.3h,90.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOHQe0FJPJv6yvfk4s2_obg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Franklin Grove
Palmyra Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8475573,-89.5037551,3a,18.1y,312.5h,89.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVmVbq04UfY1ZvlhdOQYXZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) from Dixon to Sterling
IL 84 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8632961,-90.1465647,3a,49.2y,313.06h,90.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snCgw9gdTh2zlJXVJDFlSUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-16th (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8625211,-90.1475966,3a,38y,221.97h,84.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3mTxSz8DBORKrZVtHn9Lgw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-15th (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8622182,-90.1517287,3a,16y,317.61h,88.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6-mT77u0jrAVZ_d_I8x4Lw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-4th (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8628604,-90.1653901,3a,42.4y,286.54h,82.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEL1BtMk_UIzwAJKVx_ngfQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-10th (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8667281,-90.1657227,3a,17.4y,23.9h,89.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sU-Irc_bY9Rijh50iPSNdog!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) ending at the windmill? (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8671852,-90.1669842,3a,75y,288.74h,87.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqKtLgNUnuXBZsH9WteSB-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Fulton
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I-70 would be a mistake, per the sign above. The PDF guide has the route off I-70, but with a break where it leaves the old alignment. Sadly there's no Streetview where the gap would be, so we can't check the bodge I did to avoid a gap (a touring route shouldn't have to only stick to the old route and then disappear - it should be a followable route - cf the signed twists crossing I-70 further west at Old Washington).
I drove everything east of Columbus in Ohio today, both TM's current routing and the one suggested by ODOT (https://gis3.dot.state.oh.us/ScenicByways/HNR.html), and the only signs between Fairview and OH 513 were for the Guernsey County tour route. Westbound, they followed Waymore-Whitely-Logan-Pisgah-Bridgewater, the same route Si drafted. Other than Bridgewater, the roads themselves are crap (gravel that may have been asphalt 30 years ago), which doesn't necessarily justify a gap, but if they have never actually been part of the National Road, it seems unnecessary to include them. The route through Old Washington is (poorly) signed on OH 285 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0386364,-81.4453926,3a,46.3y,98.38h,92.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHO2dxpz_k2LPJnhOZgx5QA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHO2dxpz_k2LPJnhOZgx5QA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D98.37774897958091%26pitch%3D-2.0412229591864133%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu). Also, there's no signage at all (either type) on Dewey or Manila west of Cambridge.
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IA Lincoln Highway:
Signs east of Lisbon do not seem to have been updated (as of September 2023) for the realignment of US 30 Bus. Do you have any sources showing the backtrack on Kirkwood? If not, I'd recommend using as much of the old alignment as possible via Adams and Old Lincoln to Charles.
Everything else looks perfect :)
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MD National Road:
Eastbound uses Mulberry (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6404554,-77.7169437,3a,15y,152.21h,89.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSwKp55UbwDsOcUICe_yxVw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and westbound uses Locust (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6378464,-77.7197168,3a,15.7y,334.74h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR3H6Yzv8Uo5OJo3qZSkjmw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Hagerstown. Neither direction uses Potomac.
Eastbound in Frederick uses East Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4102502,-77.4067868,3a,23.6y,108.58h,89.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd2usyit_GLNwl9h1uA31Cg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), while MD 144 east continues to Franklin. But westbound is the same. So should the overlap be broken or not?
Here I've kept the overlaps along Mulberry (with US40Alt) and Patrick (with MD144) as concurrent with those routes, but this can be changed. Both existing routes are not well mapped.
So the Frederick situation is a nice hot mess. Officially, only Patrick Street is part of the state highway system as MD 144. But Patrick becomes one way westbound west of East Street, so where's MD 144 eastbound? Officially currently, nowhere, but formerly it used South St to Franklin St before those were downloaded to local maintenance. At least one or two signs or MD 144 east along this alignment remain in place. So, by the principle of "there are no one way routes, if a route officially only follows a one-way street there must be an implied one-way pair", MD 144 is mapped as though what used to be officially its eastbound routing was not dumped.
The National Road being run through the area using a slightly different one-way pairing makes properly mapping this impossible since whether the two are concurrent between East St and Franklin St depends on which direction you are traveling.
But I do think leaving it as is as the least bad solution.
Over in Hagerstown, I see no reason not to map it as signed, but yes this requires adjusting US40AltHag and US40's files to create waypoints in the right place. I can appreciate Si did not want to mess with other people's stuff but as this is mine I'll go ahead and do it. :)
EDIT: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/7332
Also made a few adjustments in Baltimore to accommodate
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Ohio River Scenic Byway in Illinois:
Market Street in Metropolis (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1514739,-88.7325768,3a,16.1y,346.25h,94.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWGH28OH3fGSm-LPUmoyAZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Ohio River Scenic Byway in Indiana:
Randolph Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2924631,-85.7662049,3a,48.4y,116.88h,87.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sO_-EwRJ8gf_aYhdGJjEXtw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in Clarksville, then jog on Harrison Avenue to Clark Boulevard
The Lincoln Heritage Trail is signed in at least Illinois and Indiana (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2270965,-86.4703565,3a,15.3y,15.27h,93.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skwWfIl5dBxv7IACCfg_qGw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). I can try to figure out the details if you'd like.
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At Lima it probably comes in on North (the route in the 1920 Automobile Blue Book jogs south on Dewey to High, but that's been cut off) and then uses Main (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7464825,-84.1055107,3a,15y,118.69h,88.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saii0XeBto_8xojVgBP45Kg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)-McKibben (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7468834,-84.1085371,3a,25.5y,206.33h,87.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shSXRziHPBuLesWx2YOnA9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and then north on West into 65 to 115 to rejoin the main route.
It doesn't use Elizabeth or Grand at all; this needs to be fixed.
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I could use a point where the National Rd leaves MD 27 on the north side of I-70. I am not 100% sure whether I clinched the short section between MD 27 and MD 808.
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I could use a point where the National Rd leaves MD 27 on the north side of I-70. I am not 100% sure whether I clinched the short section between MD 27 and MD 808.
Added, tidied up a few other bits in that area too
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In Indiana, ORSB and LCTrl both have a point in Clarksville that is probably in the wrong spot. BroStaWay_E should mark the turn at Randolph Ave (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2924524,-85.7651995,3a,49y,97.58h,95.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJZV44d1iDmpx708kUAxiGQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJZV44d1iDmpx708kUAxiGQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D97.57641754511575%26pitch%3D-5.042922832543297%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) instead of North Clark Blvd.
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Looking thru all the All-American Roads for possible additions:
A1A Scenic & Historic Coastal Byway: not covered by existing systems on an old alignment at St. Augustine Beach (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.8243996,-81.2712549,3a,26.1y,13.28h,90.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0XGoKboxFCAaUz1uMJePEw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Acadia All-American Road: all covered
Alaska Marine Highway: lol
Beartooth Highway: all covered
Blue Ridge Parkway: already in usanp
Chesapeake Country Scenic Byway: all covered
Chinook Scenic Byway: all covered
Colonial Parkway: already in usanp
Creole Nature Trail: not covered by existing systems on a piece west of Oak Grove (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7888297,-93.2338958,3a,15y,138.47h,89.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snpZu06ODp3lg6wE4wLLA1w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)
Door County Coastal Byway: all covered
Flaming Gorge - Green River Basin Scenic Byway: all covered
Florida Keys Scenic Highway: all covered
George Washington Memorial Parkway: already in usanp
Great River Road: mapped
Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad Byway: not covered by existing systems on some branches, which are at least partially signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4584506,-76.0327737,3a,15y,73.04h,88.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMe8d4pjshRanSFXhMr2efw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Hells Canyon Scenic Byway: not covered by existing systems on NF 39 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3403367,-117.0753863,3a,17.9y,73.68h,87.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0i4iNH5LIId9UPBaIw3ATA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Historic Columbia River Highway: already in usaush and usaus
Historic National Road: mapped
Historic Route 66: already in usaush
International Selkirk Loop: mapped
Lakes to Locks Passage: not covered by existing systems on a piece south of Rouses Point (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7760975,-73.4241591,3a,35.6y,21.62h,89.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-FvrIdTvFNSUUD3bZ0aJFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and former NY 314 (unsigned branch?)
Las Vegas Strip: not covered by existing systems; may be unsigned
Lincoln Highway Scenic & History Byway: Nebraska needs to be checked if any of this is signed (https://fhwaapps.fhwa.dot.gov/bywaysp/byway/81508/map)
Natchez Trace Parkway: already in usanp
Newfound Gap Road Byway: all covered
North Shore Scenic Drive: all covered
Northwest Passage Scenic Byway: all covered
Pacific Coast Scenic Byway - Oregon: all covered
Red Rock Scenic Byway: all covered
Route 1 - Big Sur Coast Highway: all covered
Route 1 - San Luis Obispo North Coast Byway: all covered
San Juan Skyway: all covered
Scenic Byway 12: all covered
Selma to Montgomery March Byway: not covered by existing systems in Montgomery; it is signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.351364,-86.3266238,3a,15y,109.91h,89.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA0-0DdXaCyWgxKvknVY-zw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Seward Highway: all covered
Trail Ridge Road/Beaver Meadow Road: all covered
Volcanic Legacy Scenic Byway: mapped
Woodward Avenue (M-1) - Automotive Heritage Trail: not covered by existing systems in downtown Detroit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3290956,-83.0446947,3a,15y,296.74h,88.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVY7FSbi8umimeT6YJOGSrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu)
None of these jump out at me as must-haves.
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Lincoln Highway in Nebraska:
At least one Lincoln Highway sign in Fremont (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4299534,-96.4960655,3a,18y,323.18h,89.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7efX4igjKdgyxa3jJBFwRA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Signs on the route between North Platte and Gothenburg (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0309618,-100.5270576,3a,19.2y,292.71h,86.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svPtmjL4fB5ys5xj-2Lsrsg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), which can be seen on https://lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/
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Something to keep an eye on: LCT in Ohio
https://www.weirtondailytimes.com/news/local-news/2023/06/fort-receives-auto-tour-signs-for-lewis-clark-trail/
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LCT in West Point KY (https://www.thenewsenterprise.com/features/neighbors/lewis-and-clark-auto-tour-route-signs-installed-in-west-point/article_1674b21c-5f98-52ea-a743-497d3ad230d3.html)
It seems to simply use US 31W Bus (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9998585,-85.9434342,3a,15.1y,265.52h,84.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s73JBe0C0VqZKARvMvfpkAQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru town (south end (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.979057,-85.9620407,3a,15y,344.79h,88.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEqIPEeBxfDk8MdHrAPp7pg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
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OH LinHwyAsh leaves US 42 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8176979,-82.4032103,3a,15y,268.82h,85.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sljjHA4YfMWPJ1rF4MEQikA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) thru Windsor (west end (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7945734,-82.4445085,3a,16.2y,43.48h,80.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siseURnjXqhnyjLvCjQb75Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
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I noticed something interesting in Maryland on the National Road. There's a point west of Baltimore where MD 144 ends in the middle of a National Road segment that doesn't have a point on the National Road.
I'd be interested to see what's not already covered from the routes in New York Scenic Byways: https://www.dot.ny.gov/display/programs/scenic-byways/lists
I'm guessing its going to be similar to what @neroute2 found for All-American Roads, that it would be almost all concurrent with routes we already have.
I thought this system was going to be mainly multi-state routes, not getting down into the weeds of what every state considers a scenic byway? And unfortunately I'm unaware of any GIS-based map of these things that would make it easy to pin down exact alignments. There's also the fact that many of these aren't traditional routes that go from point A to point B... they branch and have spurs all over the place (ugh).
There is a surprisingly large amount of scenic byway mileage in NY that isn't concurrent with the touring route system. I swear, if you make me drive all the way out to far eastern Long Island again... looks like I'm losing my 100% of NY for the next several years at this rate.
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I noticed something interesting in Maryland on the National Road. There's a point west of Baltimore where MD 144 ends in the middle of a National Road segment that doesn't have a point on the National Road.
It's a hidden point on NatRd, so concurrency detection will still work. This is because there's no intersection there, that section of MD 144 ends at the county line.
I thought this system was going to be mainly multi-state routes, not getting down into the weeds of what every state considers a scenic byway?
There is no officially defined scope at this point. I had suggested this upthread precisely because I don't like that level of getting down into the weeds either, but it is still open for discussion.
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Oregon Trail in Oregon:
exit 193 to exit 168: Echo Road, Thielsen Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7404313,-119.1908297,3a,41.4y,273.9h,89.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s26MLC8bx6zTTBjKxkXV36Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Oregon Trail Road, OR 207 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7119191,-119.3576809,3a,15.5y,310.7h,89.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shUFpgRSudjjx_2oF3ucDpQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Bombing Range Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5592643,-119.5993833,3a,15.2y,233.81h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1squWqiaoUusaBTUiurxrqhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) all the way to I-84 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.8333347,-119.6247626,3a,16.6y,64.59h,90.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svgcZm0tSkod5J9Y1E_5fCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
exit 87 to Oregon City (Barlow Road Route): US 197 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6033846,-121.1383165,3a,15.5y,280.66h,90.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTnggK8TqogSdnlCYNPSr1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) (including around Dufur (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4614854,-121.1242934,3a,15y,217.13h,89.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYdwCcQqgHzWmePyTl3nEug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)), Tygh Valley Road, Wamic Market Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2474557,-121.1728675,3a,15.2y,143.75h,90.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipNC2HgfDW1oQJ8LhZk1smdrTxoiNv4ceU80LXxK!2e10!3e11!7i7680!8i3840?entry=ttu), NF 48, OR 35 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3047778,-121.6692818,3a,15y,49.79h,88.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR2ul-pmvI6zyTkY3vADr6A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Barlow Pass (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2840987,-121.6823179,3a,15y,275.07h,94.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPIg3qohz0CsnjO9RNjW98A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), OR 35, US 26 (can't find any signs at the old alignments), OR 211 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3961981,-122.2597416,3a,15y,25.08h,94.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siXY0U2htekCalcVhX8hwMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), OR 224 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3575315,-122.3589392,3a,15y,7.53h,90.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shBP_wohclcEgZxOn71ocfQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Bakers Ferry Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3893791,-122.4077881,3a,45.3y,329.84h,88.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srL0he4-53uS_WTB6Ll4m2g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Springwater Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3816131,-122.4727494,3a,38.1y,327.21h,88.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syGggQltkjZZvYssJMf42kA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Hattan Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3901233,-122.494478,3a,42.9y,5.31h,88.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skiJ47VeTZuXULAQX0y1rbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Gronlund Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3890467,-122.4964335,3a,18.7y,211.26h,90.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_KXLLg763AnmsFxRZzmM6A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Bradley Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3850219,-122.5173556,3a,15y,203.38h,88.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgUAAAWJwHk0bp9N1NDJfKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Holcomb Boulevard (this sign got turned around (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3694228,-122.5175592,3a,17.1y,14.4h,91.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siXuvkkwzfzUIZngzu5Un-Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)), Abernethy Road to end at Washington Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3639069,-122.5968267,3a,15.1y,152.98h,89.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szHip1FaNmnpE5J4KGxNZ8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Grass Valley (or farther east??) to Tygh Valley (Barlow Road Cutoff): OR 216 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3571093,-120.7858472,3a,17.9y,208.31h,94.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOJcW6_0ZyeSjbmQMirwoRA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to the main Barlow Road at US 197 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2527532,-121.1748819,3a,41.1y,340.36h,89.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbSg8N-NMGLNcezYH4p6eg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
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The main Lincoln Highway in Ohio uses Leesville Rd (west and east of OH 598) and Mabee Rd in Ontario (east of OH 314). These are part of the route signed as the main line, not branches or loops.
Leesville Rd (west (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8072276,-82.8177771,3a,75y,109.59h,82.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swKffLVRF92ywOx955WtNug!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DwKffLVRF92ywOx955WtNug%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D109.59213886215466%26pitch%3D7.439682539359012%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu)) (at 598 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7954063,-82.7884596,3a,15y,78.71h,87.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9bH1fY2bhoGTv8wLfmnnIQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D9bH1fY2bhoGTv8wLfmnnIQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D78.71499317949655%26pitch%3D2.736492732459695%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu)) (east (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.797994,-82.7620497,3a,75y,326.09h,99.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNHg0hdzdpJ2SlsoK_l4MLg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DNHg0hdzdpJ2SlsoK_l4MLg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D326.0891662403423%26pitch%3D-9.74850852801336%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu))
Mabee Rd (west (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7790394,-82.6440156,3a,49.5y,96.56h,86.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2y_tDrTPMekC2XHM8cKMQg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D2y_tDrTPMekC2XHM8cKMQg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D96.55618082648618%26pitch%3D3.66004373371446%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu)) (east (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7764853,-82.6151198,3a,17.8y,318.62h,86.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2l1JaciRY41zbEg7wOrW3g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D2l1JaciRY41zbEg7wOrW3g%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D318.6163667032536%26pitch%3D3.328156860469136%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu))
(edit: neroute2 already pointed out the route on Windsor Rd)
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In Indiana, ORSB and LCTrl both have a point in Clarksville that is probably in the wrong spot. BroStaWay_E should mark the turn at Randolph Ave (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2924524,-85.7651995,3a,49y,97.58h,95.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJZV44d1iDmpx708kUAxiGQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DJZV44d1iDmpx708kUAxiGQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D97.57641754511575%26pitch%3D-5.042922832543297%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) instead of North Clark Blvd.
Looks like the ORSB was changed, but the LCTrl wasn't.
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IA Lincoln Highway:
Signs east of Lisbon do not seem to have been updated (as of September 2023) for the realignment of US 30 Bus. Do you have any sources showing the backtrack on Kirkwood? If not, I'd recommend using as much of the old alignment as possible via Adams and Old Lincoln to Charles.
Everything else looks perfect :)
See my post from April 6.
There are currently two gaps in the route due to closed roads in the IA 17 and Lisbon areas. I’m in a protracted debate/struggle with the Iowa LHA on this as the Iowa DOT wants to re-sign the route this year, I have some changes across the state based on my research, and any major changes have to take into account its national byway designation. What's there in those two places is fine for now but I hope to have them changed in the field.
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I found an eastern extension of the Barlow Road Cutoff. It continues north on US 97 to Monkland Lane (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4948173,-120.708686,3a,15.1y,74.86h,92.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDvRWYhv2nUPJfKdkxmhZfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), Hay Canyon Road, OR 206, Sandon Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5834369,-120.6028427,3a,15y,200.54h,85.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4DV2DyQIVu47rA4bb2Qq9g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to Klondike Lane. The main Oregon Trail is also signed east of Wasco (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5914232,-120.6134781,3a,18y,61.87h,84.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_4YaGzCf-OV-ln8jMce2RQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) via Old Wasco-Heppner Highway and Klondike Lane, leading to the McDonald crossing (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5844893,-120.5204454,3a,15.4y,43.05h,90.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQN9wJnkwZVqwqbrx20vlew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) of the John Day River. It's also signed northwest out of Wasco on old US 97 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6087733,-120.7247641,3a,15.4y,166.05h,91.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXTbst1vUmFDqrZnkFVLkwg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), presumably using US 97 to old US 30 (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6692621,-120.8320711,3a,16.3y,306.99h,90.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sM6WY98uEe21DmTAFIPO4LA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (another info center sign where old US 30 ends (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6502793,-120.957943,3a,15y,135.52h,86.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szh5dz80JjFj5HWAQg9N4eg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
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Oregon Trail/California Trail/Pony Express in Kansas:
All three enter from Nebraska on K-148 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8422522,-96.8621193,3a,15y,313.25h,91.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szuWaisNa3TX0ET4PWYSfkQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and turn east on US 36.
At US 77 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8421456,-96.6460809,3a,15y,129.02h,95.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYEloJzvVhJkFWsPZIUIiFw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), the Oregon Trail and California Trail turn right, while the Pony Express and a spur of the California Trail continue straight.
The Oregon and California Trails go east on K-9 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6879259,-96.6318807,3a,15y,158.26h,89.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_3-eqlzS8EhUJdDOpm0FPQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), south on K-99 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7022723,-96.4199955,3a,15y,123.94h,91.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_LPW2TvYWRJMEZ1DfV-nSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east on US 24 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2118152,-96.3057181,3a,24.1y,211.37h,92.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLSWF10hcpnM88sNIAQwCrA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), south from Rossville (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1367367,-95.9537039,3a,19.2y,157.55h,91.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7f-AW3Yn6TLmM5AQlZC6KA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east on I-70, east on US 40 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0448115,-95.599427,3a,15.6y,214.9h,92.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGVLIYnv_IzPgyTgbDchQfg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and old US 40 into Lawrence, south on US 59 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9723635,-95.26261,3a,15y,124.62h,91.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-awtJwBnFe5KGQEfkJ1SLQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), east on old K-10 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9443732,-95.2604264,3a,15y,234.94h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stmGU5Ri29SHXuQRxJoVn1w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and K-10, then probably east and north on I-435 (definitely on I-435 in Missouri (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0856238,-94.4882552,3a,15.2y,55.25h,89.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa4G5fzXpTS_V0D1cc0S1BQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)), but I don't know how far (probably at least to US 24 east).
The Pony Express and California Trail spur use US 36 into Missouri, where they use I-29 Bus (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7492082,-94.847703,3a,33y,115.97h,88.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgHUuIqp1lZC_czqo2A4GaQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) north to at least Mitchell Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7552265,-94.8492993,3a,16.5y,207.78h,93.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCl9pfAjUOkeQbfqBjwPIXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
Wyoming also signs them (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2328041,-105.0164819,3a,15y,305.32h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGzH1qfy6_U-t1tTJ-Vc2Rg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), but I haven't looked in detail yet.
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Wyoming also signs them (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2328041,-105.0164819,3a,15y,305.32h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGzH1qfy6_U-t1tTJ-Vc2Rg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), but I haven't looked in detail yet.
I'm partway through WY, and struggling to work out Idaho, so perhaps look at Nebraska or Nevada instead?
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Wisconsin LMCT is missing one of WI 57's waypoints between CRP_DooE and CRWD_Doo.
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Wyoming also signs them (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2328041,-105.0164819,3a,15y,305.32h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGzH1qfy6_U-t1tTJ-Vc2Rg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), but I haven't looked in detail yet.
I'm partway through WY, and struggling to work out Idaho, so perhaps look at Nebraska or Nevada instead?
I was unable to find anything in Nebraska with a quick search.
California Trail in Nevada (shared with Pony Express west of Fallon):
SR 88 north to SR 206 north (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8645771,-119.7790728,3a,15.1y,25.65h,89.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szG8MhXukxihhCy4b3-y2Cw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to US 395 north thru downtown Carson City (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1175075,-119.7784402,3a,15y,74.6h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLtAikSvms6hxr0LOL-yRSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (but also US 50 west of US 395 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9683798,-119.9340594,3a,15.8y,279.91h,90.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sci7doHJ8ws2z8chx_FkGJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)) to US 50 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5110982,-118.9474374,3a,15.2y,94.83h,90.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scDBQvoIsGAsZbaCRjPlNbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to US 95 north (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4748451,-118.7790817,3a,27.1y,143.82h,96.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6NIsNG-3tEDu85Xu5gb5hA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), then presumably east on I-80 (https://www.nps.gov/cali/planyourvisit/tour-route-nevada.htm) but I can't find any more signs until West Wendover (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7389262,-114.0579242,3a,15y,217.15h,86.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3VVxqwJMqWC-5pG8-BCazQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (including onto I-80 east (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7386744,-114.0579867,3a,26.1y,67.11h,90.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s07mzKcEPCBwodU_YbF2z2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)).
https://www.nps.gov/cali/planyourvisit/tour-route-nevada.htm claims the Pony Express simply uses US 50 and US 93/93 Alt east of Fallon, but I can't find any signs.
Pony Express also has a local tour route (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9291466,-119.8392807,3a,15y,211.47h,88.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn1DcfIDh-ByYPb5XD0Zf3Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on SR 207 to end at US 50 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9683798,-119.9340594,3a,15.8y,279.91h,90.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sci7doHJ8ws2z8chx_FkGJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
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Utah: California Trail, Mormon Pioneer, and Pony Express use old US 30 thru Echo (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9749728,-111.4339598,3a,15y,106.61h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sypCpoQYcWFLqEyQyMXI8fw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), SR 65 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0195926,-111.500386,3a,15y,27.61h,90.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqJYvS_umNyST9n-ClZJEQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), presumably all the way to I-80 (unless they use Emigration Canyon Road?)
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https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1453/road-signs.htm lists all the trails:
California Trail
El Camino Real de Tierra Adentro
El Camino Real de los Tejas
Mormon Pioneer
Old Spanish Trail
Oregon Trail
Pony Express
Santa Fe Trail
Trail of Tears
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1453/index.htm also includes Butterfield Overland and Route 66.
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Trail of Tears:
begins on US 76 in Ellijay GA (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6864022,-84.4867581,3a,15y,321.07h,93.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa3UpisWfHpbb54wrRWhd1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
both ways on old US 411 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6715624,-84.7102097,3a,19.6y,272.22h,87.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJipX0W8PFCAI8PxQrCE9xg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu):
going north on old US 411, staying with US 76 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6972103,-84.7354178,3a,16.1y,355.68h,90.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEHKmiQrszOzR1TMMsu1l8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) but crossing US 411 to SR 225 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.7552428,-84.8181889,3a,16.3y,323.53h,89.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6oYGhN2J3Zyttkqn35zVXA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) ("Roundup Route"). The roundup route goes south to end at Craigtown Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5424815,-84.9143043,3a,22.1y,316.92h,87.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sw6Q4V1f5HSMtBz7EE_6UiA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), and north to where? It seems that signs disappear in favor of Georgia's Old Federal Road.
going south on old US 411, I can't find any more signs.
More to come?
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I was just in Nebraska this weekend and saw this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1558374,-101.1397598,3a,48.1y,136.5h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGPR8Bn-pc-tfWJwwP38_UA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) along US30 near Sutherland, NE.
While I can't attest to how well the route is signed through the state, there are certainly sections that are concurrent with US30 that are not yet in the HB.
I was curious about the route and found this Lincoln Highway Map (https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/) which could be useful. It seems to show all the various routings over the years. Maybe it will be helpful to anyone researching this route.
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I was just in Nebraska this weekend and saw this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1558374,-101.1397598,3a,48.1y,136.5h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGPR8Bn-pc-tfWJwwP38_UA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) along US30 near Sutherland, NE.
While I can't attest to how well the route is signed through the state, there are certainly sections that are concurrent with US30 that are not yet in the HB.
I was curious about the route and found this Lincoln Highway Map (https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/) which could be useful. It seems to show all the various routings over the years. Maybe it will be helpful to anyone researching this route.
So that sign is for the Nebraska-specific Lincoln Highway "scenic" byway, not for the national route as far as I can tell.
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NatRd goes below the I-70/US 40 lines just west of WooRd even though NatRd is north of I-70/US 40 here.
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I was just in Nebraska this weekend and saw this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1558374,-101.1397598,3a,48.1y,136.5h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGPR8Bn-pc-tfWJwwP38_UA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) along US30 near Sutherland, NE.
While I can't attest to how well the route is signed through the state, there are certainly sections that are concurrent with US30 that are not yet in the HB.
I was curious about the route and found this Lincoln Highway Map (https://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/map/) which could be useful. It seems to show all the various routings over the years. Maybe it will be helpful to anyone researching this route.
So that sign is for the Nebraska-specific Lincoln Highway "scenic" byway, not for the national route as far as I can tell.
I wasn't paying that much attention as I drove by. I imagine most drivers (myself included) would not notice a difference between the "national route" signs and the "Nebraska-specific" signs. In this case I'm not sure it matters as the section was concurrent with US30, but it could lead to further discussion as to what type of signage is needed for inclusion in the usatr system. I wonder if I've opened a can of worms here. :P
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Not exactly trying to drop a new bomb in here, but what about adding the 49-mile drive in SF? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-Mile_Scenic_Drive
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Not exactly trying to drop a new bomb in here, but what about adding the 49-mile drive in SF? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-Mile_Scenic_Drive
This is exactly the type of thing I absolutely do not want this system to scope creep into including. Random insignificant local nonsense that happens to have some signs, as opposed to the major multi-state spanning stuff like Great River Road that was the impetus for the system's creation.
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To keep a system that's soon to be demoted to devel (at least for a while) out of the next monthly snapshot site update, I plan to demote it for one day tomorrow. That May 1 update's logs will be one set that eventually gets archived at https://travelmapping.net/updates/ in https://travelmapping.net/updates/monthly_snapshots/ .
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I found three signed spurs of the GRR in Illinois that we don't currently have in TM. From north to south, the first is signed northeast on Bay Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4420829,-90.8691562,3a,15.2y,264.56h,88.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbruNTj6VViFXauEPVI7BJA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) toward the City Park in Pleasant Hill. There are no additional signs. The second is signed west into the Rip Rap Fish and Wildlife Management Area (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3149901,-90.7616005,3a,15y,206.4h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBwLb8qjUHmhHLngySFlHSg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). There are no additional signs anywhere off IL 96. The third is signed north (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.295501,-90.6122262,3a,15y,121.07h,88.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBP2vglAYV4HNKi6AE3eV4w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) on IL 100 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2964955,-90.6099555,3a,46.7y,26.38h,85.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDki2EBcOTM4BeD2DxX9f5A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu) and east on IL 108 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2989886,-90.6107432,3a,39.4y,30.29h,86.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV9iKXKTDuXKneO9CIOcorQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu), presumably ending at the Kampsville Ferry.
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The auto tour routes go north from Genoa NV on Jacks Valley Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0039124,-119.8461462,3a,15y,32.24h,85.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqpwUk3fFqxIjrp8rkPYdeg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (I think this was my bad for just saying SR 206).
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The auto tour routes go north from Genoa NV on Jacks Valley Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0039124,-119.8461462,3a,15y,32.24h,85.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqpwUk3fFqxIjrp8rkPYdeg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (I think this was my bad for just saying SR 206).
Correct, that goes up Jacks Valley Road, which was historically SR 206. 206 was moved onto SR 758 east of Genoa in the 90s, with the former alignment north of Genoa relinquished. I can make the change if it hasn't been done already.
If we want to be really technical, the Pony Express Trail branches, with one branch following modern US 50 through the Tahoe basin. This branch to the lake has several signs on both sides of the state line and there were multiple Pony Express stations along this other route. In CA, it generally follows US 50 to Folsom. The southern branch, currently mapped, follows CA 88 and CA 89 to rejoin. When I get home from my current trip, I can do some more research and map this out. It is definitely signed in California, though. Few of these other signed routes would add significant mileage to the HB, as they tend to be signed along existing routes.
There are also "Pony Express Auto Tour Route" signs on the CA 24 expressway in Contra Costa County, which I confirmed today from BART. Yes, the Pony Express usually ended in Folsom or Sacramento, but it continued overland to Oakland about 20 times, and this is acknowledged.
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The auto tour routes go north from Genoa NV on Jacks Valley Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0039124,-119.8461462,3a,15y,32.24h,85.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqpwUk3fFqxIjrp8rkPYdeg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) (I think this was my bad for just saying SR 206).
No, it's my bad for looking and not seeing the signs at the north end of Jacks Valley Road, seeing 'Mormon Station' and treating it as a sign marking the nearby attraction rather than the route, and then seeing that the Mormon Station is signed from US50 taking the current route of OR206, rather than Jacks Valley Road. I'll fix it this morning.
If we want to be really technical, the Pony Express Trail branches, with one branch following modern US 50 through the Tahoe basin. This branch to the lake has several signs on both sides of the state line and there were multiple Pony Express stations along this other route. In CA, it generally follows US 50 to Folsom. The southern branch, currently mapped, follows CA 88 and CA 89 to rejoin. When I get home from my current trip, I can do some more research and map this out. It is definitely signed in California, though. Few of these other signed routes would add significant mileage to the HB, as they tend to be signed along existing routes.
There are also "Pony Express Auto Tour Route" signs on the CA 24 expressway in Contra Costa County, which I confirmed today from BART. Yes, the Pony Express usually ended in Folsom or Sacramento, but it continued overland to Oakland about 20 times, and this is acknowledged.
I only found the one sign for the Tahoe route, but that doesn't mean there aren't more - if I found more, I'd include it (like with the Lincoln Highway).
Looking now, I found a couple of signs in California, but they are of the annoying 'Heh, the next mile is part of the original Pony Express route' type rather than the Auto Tour type that are designed to join up (if the signs are there, at least!).
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I'll do some field checks over the next couple weeks. I work at the lake and can work any potential alignment into my commute.
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The Auto Tour Guide for Nevada https://www.nps.gov/poex/planyourvisit/upload/Nevada-ATR-Guide-2018-Revision-Small.pdf says
The Pony Express Trail splits beyond Walley’s Hot Springs. The south alternate continues south and enters California near Fredericksburg, then swings west and crosses the Sierra Nevada at Luther Pass. This route was used only during the first six weeks of the Pony Express operations. The north alternate, the main Pony Route, goes west up the Kingsbury Grade and over Daggett Pass to Stateline, on the Nevada/California border. The two branches rejoin south of Lake Tahoe near Meyers, California. Tour choices here are:
To take a scenic 11-mile drive over Daggett Pass following the main (north) Pony Express route into Stateline, turn left from Walley’s Hot Springs and continue south toward Mottsville; then turn right onto NV207. The route is paved but steep and twisting. At the junction with NV207 with US 50, turn left and continue into Stateline. Note the Pony Express statue near the Nevada/California border at Stateline.
OR, to follow the initial (south) Pony Express alternate and the Carson Route into California, continue south from Walley’s Hot Springs on NV 206 through Mottsville. Approximately seven miles south of Mottsville, beyond Sheridan, turn right onto Fredericksburg/Foothill Road and enter California. Drive three miles to NV 88 and turn right onto Emigrant Trail Road/Carson Pass National Scenic Byway.
OR, to join the Walker River-Sonora Route into California, continue south from Walley’s Hot Springs on NV 206 for about a mile. Turn left onto NV 757, then right onto US 395. Just ahead, the highway splits. Bear left to stay on US 395 and conclude your trip with entry C-20. [Carson Valley Museum and Cultural Center (1477 US 395 N, Gardnerville, NV)]
There's definitely a sign on US50 south of NV207, but I've not seen stuff on NV207. I think I did look at the US395 route and didn't find anything. The NV88 route is signed, and in the browser. But obviously, given missing the signage at US395/Jacks, I was not the most alert when I did it!
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Not exactly trying to drop a new bomb in here, but what about adding the 49-mile drive in SF? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-Mile_Scenic_Drive
This is exactly the type of thing I absolutely do not want this system to scope creep into including. Random insignificant local nonsense that happens to have some signs, as opposed to the major multi-state spanning stuff like Great River Road that was the impetus for the system's creation.
I think San Franciscans might have some quibbles with your assertion that anything in The City is insignificant. :)
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I think San Franciscans might have some quibbles with your assertion that anything in The City is insignificant. :)
Every route* included in the system is, or is at least part of, a route where at least two states sign it, and the Federal Government recognises it in some way.
The 49-mile Scenic Drive (https://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/49-Mile_Scenic_Drive) doesn't even seem to be recognised by California as part of the state's State Scenic Highway System (https://wiki.aaroads.com/wiki/State_Scenic_Highway_System_(California)).
It is insignificant. It's indisputably local. It also seems to somewhat be random nonsense going round city streets in a loop for a couple of hours (in a city where driving isn't pleasant and there's great transit). At least this city street driving route (https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?units=miles&u=si404&r=ausvic.td002) has a theme beyond 'the city', and is part of a wider state system of tourist drives.
*Other than the Selma-Montgomery Trail. But as we have other NPS Trails, I felt it worth adding as part of that sub-system.
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Not exactly trying to drop a new bomb in here, but what about adding the 49-mile drive in SF? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/49-Mile_Scenic_Drive
This is exactly the type of thing I absolutely do not want this system to scope creep into including. Random insignificant local nonsense that happens to have some signs, as opposed to the major multi-state spanning stuff like Great River Road that was the impetus for the system's creation.
I think San Franciscans might have some quibbles with your assertion that anything in The City is insignificant. :)
Insignificant might have been a somewhat controversial word choice.
I assumed this system to be "National" tourist routes which would be definition exclude state or local scenic/routes. My home state of Ohio has quite a few "scenic byways" that do not cross state lines. They don't belong is this system either. Admittedly, most are part of the existing state route system, but any portions that are not should be omitted.
There could be additional national routes worth including, but if the base criteria are that the route must be signed and exist in multiple states, that should limit the system to a reasonable scope.
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I found another signed spur of the GRR in Atlas, IL. It is signed west along U.S. 54 toward "Pike Station River Access." (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5127922,-90.9687885,3a,39.4y,11.88h,90.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3CTvC3T_C0JqBp3d3rnCqQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) This implies that the spur continues at least as far as 256th Street and maybe to Ralphs Landing Road or the Two Rivers Marina, but there are no signs in Pike Station or anywhere off IL 96 as far as I can tell.
I suspect there are more of these poorly but unambiguously signed spurs scattered all along the Illinois portion of the GRR in equally unlikely places, but I don't have time to look around for more tonight. I have only driven the stretch of the GRR from I-72 south to Mozier, so I can only safely say that there are not any additional spurs on that stretch beyond the three I have mentioned.
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Sorry, forgot to switch usatr back to preview in the site update I ran earlier this morning. It will be back in preview on the next site update.