Author Topic: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads  (Read 8410 times)

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Offline shiggins

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2024, 10:17:43 pm »
I have checked all the major additions and realignments you added, along with R76:

R23 (northern extension): No issues.
R25 (western extension): No issues.
R33 (Vryheid bypass): No issues.
R34 (Vryheid bypass):
P289_S: This point was erroneously changed from P289.
WesSt: Should be WestSt.
R36 (Tzaneen): No issues.
R43 (Hermanus): No issues.
R45 (Vredenburg bypass):
R399: While I think it likely that R399 will be extended south to this point, R399 is not signed south of Vredenburg on the most recent GMSV, so this point should probably be renamed.
R56 (northeastern extension):
R103_N: Should be AleRd_N, and a new R103_N point should be added to the south at French Road. According to the RDDA, R103 follows French/Camps Drift Road, Edendale Road (now Moses Mabhida Road), Keate Street (I don’t know for sure which street used to be Keate, but it’s presumably Pine Street.), Victoria Road, and Howick Road through Pietermaritzburg, and the very limited signage I can find for R103 seems to confirm this. R103 is signed going southeast on Camps Drift Road at Moses Mabhida Road. R103 is signed heading northwest, southwest, and southeast from the intersection of Victoria, Chief Albert Luthuli, and Howick, but the only sign added at that intersection since 2013 says R103 goes southwest on Victoria and replaced a sign that did not mention R103.
R57Hei:
ChuSt: Should be KerkSt. “Kerk” is left intentionally untranslated on this sign that is otherwise in English.
R69 (Vryheid bypass): No issues.
R76:
+X450561: Could be replaced by a point at S83/Krige Street.
+X469477: Could be replaced by a visible point at S1108.
+X973577: Could be replaced by a visible point at S730.
You could break up a 27.70-mile stretch with no visible points by adding one at S166/S202.
Ste: Should be VanRieSt.

I also noticed a typo in a new point on R31: C3403→D3403.

I have not gone back and rechecked every single minor fix you made, but I think the system is ready to be promoted to active after these last few items are addressed. Any remaining errors which we have both missed are probably just incorrect point names or due to signage ambiguity. The former won't affect anybody's ability to accurately map their travels, and there's not much we can do about the latter.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2024, 10:54:28 pm by shiggins »

Offline michih

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2024, 03:03:52 pm »
Thanks for this.

There are more reviews out there waiting to be processed....

Also, while looking at the routes, and the handful of the points raised (and the exit numbers), it might be useful to implement a split into regions.

Do you really want to break list files of 8 travelers?
What about adding motorways? OSM indicates routes with M prefix. Dunno if they are signed.
What about 3-digit R routes e.g. Cape Town's outer beltway R300?

btw, RTR25 + RTR36 are missing N1's wp 67a(N)

Offline shiggins

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2024, 09:55:59 pm »
What about adding motorways? OSM indicates routes with M prefix. Dunno if they are signed.

The M routes are metropolitan routes, a minority of which are motorways. South Africa signs motorway status with blue signs (instead of green), not with a particular alphanumeric route designation. Si404 has already drafted zaff, which will add a lot of freeways/motorways not already in zafn or zafr.

Metropolitan routes are signed (in theory). In peer reviewing zafr, I noticed Capetown signs most M routes quite well, and Johannesburg maybe used to sign its system well, but most of the signs have vanished. The other cities with M routes seem to lie somewhere in the middle. I have yet to find any official lists of M routes, but Wikipedia has detailed route descriptions for Johannesburg, as well as summarized route descriptions for East London/Buffalo City, Capetown, Pretoria/Tshwane, Durban/Ethekwini, Bloemfontein/Mangaung, Port Elizabeth/Gqeberha, and Pietermaritzburg. I also stumbled across small metropolitan route systems in Welkom and in Vereeniging and Vanderbijlpark, which are not documented at all on Wikipedia. It's quite possible that there are other systems that I am unaware of.

In theory, I think adding metropolitan routes would be worthwhile, since most large cities (excluding Johannesburg) don't have a lot of R routes in the urban and suburban areas. In practice, drafting some systems would be quite difficult. Signage is often deficient, and in some cases is even contradictory. (See my confusion over the correct route of East London's M18 above.) I also don't know the extent to which the Wikipedia lists are complete. For example, M20 is missing from the list of East London's M routes.

What about 3-digit R routes e.g. Cape Town's outer beltway R300?

This is the logical next step if we want to add more routes in South Africa (which I think we should, since the routes we currently have mapped are quite sparse compared to the average U.S. state or European country). Wikipedia lists 230 regional routes. If we mapped them, we would get a slightly different number for three reasons:

1. The R100s are old alignments of national routes, and therefore most are split into multiple discontinuous segments that we would have to draft as separate routes.
2. At least several are unsigned and have been for well over a decade, despite appearing in the RDDA (such as R724).
3. Wikipedia is missing at least one route (R373).

Unfortunately, the RDDA isn't a trustworthy source for all of the regional routes because it is outdated. I came across numerous examples where a regional route had been decommissioned, and the number had quickly been reassigned to a new route in a completely different location.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2024, 10:09:00 pm by shiggins »

Offline shiggins

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2024, 06:03:37 pm »
I forgot to check the changed southern terminus of R37, and I have belatedly spotted an error: ToN4→ToR104.

Offline si404

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2024, 02:15:24 pm »
I forgot to check the changed southern terminus of R37, and I have belatedly spotted an error: ToN4→ToR104.
It's signed as heading to the N4 with no reference to the R104.

Offline si404

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2024, 02:31:51 pm »
Thanks for this.

There are more reviews out there waiting to be processed....
I'll get to them this summer (and review a few systems too).
Quote
Do you really want to break list files of 8 travelers?
No, but that's the main reason why I hadn't broken up ZAF already when processing this review. I don't think that that cost is outweighed by the benefits of splitting up into regions, but whomever drafts further routes may as it does look useful, especially with 3-digit R roads.
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What about adding motorways? OSM indicates routes with M prefix. Dunno if they are signed.
When you posted this, you were meant to see the zaff system I've drafted. Sadly it was late after a long day processing this review, and I mucked up. They'll be there after the next site update.

M roads, as shiggins has said, are Metropolitan routes, not motorways (though a few are).
Quote
What about 3-digit R routes e.g. Cape Town's outer beltway R300?
That one is in zaff. The others (and metropolitan routes) might get drafted, but not by me in the near future.

Anyway I've implemented the additional changes suggested, and the system will be activated on the next site update.

Offline michih

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Re: zafr: South Africa Main Provincial Roads
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2024, 03:41:50 pm »
There are more reviews out there waiting to be processed....
I'll get to them this summer (and review a few systems too).

:)

the system will be activated on the next site update.

:)