Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: jwood.ok on August 12, 2018, 11:35:14 pm

Title: African international systems thread
Post by: jwood.ok on August 12, 2018, 11:35:14 pm
I'm not quite sure of the process, but am kind of curious if there is a chance of more development of highways in African in the future.  Specifically, I'm interested in Zambia & Zimbabwe as I have quite a few miles logged in those two countries.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on August 13, 2018, 05:08:49 am
There is a chance. Your preference for Zambia and Zimbabwe is noted. You might have a wait, but...
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: jwood.ok on August 16, 2018, 09:41:31 pm
There is a chance. Your preference for Zambia and Zimbabwe is noted. You might have a wait, but...

Understood.  The nice thing about some of those countries is they don't have a great deal of infrastructure - certainly not many highways!
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 03, 2019, 05:24:33 am
The nice thing about some of those countries is they don't have a great deal of infrastructure - certainly not many highways!
Which means miles and miles of nothing, and a difficulty labelling points at times.

How do I know? Well Zambia's trunk roads are nearly done - just a few hundred miles of T1 and T4 to get on with today (after which I'll probably do more Namibia).

I also found out about the 'SADC Regional Trunk Road Network' (blurry map with numbers on p11 of this document (https://www.sadc.int/files/9313/5293/3536/Regional_Infrastructure_Development_Master_Plan_Transport_Sector_Plan.pdf), list given here (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SADC_Regional_Trunk_Road_Network)), which is - despite being a sub-continental system - isn't confined to national roads - with some larger countries having a RTR network larger than their national road network. However it is smaller in Eswatini (despite a glut of RTR roads there), Mozambique, DRC, Malawi, Tanzania, Lesotho, etc and could form a way into those countries in a more meaningful way than the sparse Trans-African Highways network - which is how we started Europe and are starting Asia: do the multi-country system and then have that as a springboard for the national networks.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 03, 2019, 01:20:51 pm
Namibia B Roads (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&sys=namb) now fully drafted.

Zambia Trunk Roads (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&sys=zmbt) are also fully drafted.

I've also outlined Botswana and Zimbabwe routes.

And, as I got fed up with drafting lengthy routes through remote areas, the small island of Mauritius (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&rg=MUS) now has routes drafted.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 05, 2019, 05:48:19 am
Botswana, Eswatini, Lesotho and Zimbabwe routes now drafted.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 05, 2019, 05:23:23 pm
https://au.int/web/sites/default/files/newsevents/workingdocuments/29736-wd-e_-_tah_annex_i_tah_network.pdf

TAH 1
Egypt: Cairo – Alexandria - El-Alamein – Amsaad ✓
Libya: Amsaad-Al Bayda – Benghazi – Ajdabiya – Abugrin – Misurata – Tripoli - Ras Ajdir
Tunisia: Ras Ajdir – Medenine – Gabès – Skhira – Sfax – Msaken – Tunis - Medjez El Bab – Jendouba ✓
Algeria:  - Constantine – Sétif – Bouira – Lakhdaria - El Afroun – Mascara - Sidi Bel Abbès –Tlemcen - Oujda ✓
Morocco: Oujda-Fès – Meknès – Rabat –Tanger - Rabat – Casablanca – Settat – Marrakech – Agadir –Guelmim – Laâyoune –Dakhla –  ✓
Mauritania: Nouâdhibou – Nouakchott - Rosso Bridge
Senegal: Rosso Bridge - Saint Louis –Thiès – Dakar ✓

TAH 2
Algeria: Algiers – Blida – Médéa – Laghouat – Ghardaïa - El Meniaa (El Goléa) -In Salah – Tamanghasset - In Guezzam
Niger: Assamaka – Arlit – Agadez – Tanaout – Zinder – Magaria-
Nigeria: Kongolam- Daura –– Kano -Kaduna – Jebba – Ilorin - Oyo – Ibadan – Lagos

TAH 3
Libya: Tripoli – Misurata – Abugrin – Wadden – Sabha - Um al Aranib - Al Katrun – Tajarhi -
Chad: Zouar - Faya (Largeau) – Moussoro –Massakori – Massaguet – Djermaya - N'djamena
Cameroon: Kousséri – Garoua – Ngaoundéré – Meidougou - Garoua Boulaï – Bertoua –kenzouGamboula
CAR: – Berberati – Salo –
Congo: Bomassa – Ouésso – Owando – Gamboma – Ngo – Brazzaville ✓
DRC: Kinshasa - Mbanza Ngungu – Matadi ✓
Angola: Noqui – Mepala - M'banza Congo – Negage – Lucula – Dondo - Alto Hama – Huambo – Cacula – Lubango – Ondjiva –   ✓
Namibia: Oshikango – Ondangwa – Oshivelo – Tsumbe – Otavi – Otjiwarongo – Okahandja – Windhoek – Rehoboth – Mariental – Keetmanshoop – Grunau – Noordoewer ✓
South Africa: Noordoewer - Cape Town ✓

TAH 4
Egypt: Cairo – Asyut – Aswan – Toshky – Arkeen -
Sudan: Wadi Halfa – Ghaba – Omdurman – Khartoum - Wad Medani – Gedaref – Doka – Galabat
Ethiopia: – Azèzo – Merawi - Debre Marcos – Dejen - Goha Tsiyon - Addis Ababa – Mojo – Awasa – Dila - Agere Maryam – Mega – moyale
Kenya: Moyale – Marsabit – Isiolo – Nanyuki – Marua – Makutano – Thika –Nairobi - Athi River – Namanga ✓
Tanzania: Namanga – Arusha – Minjingu – Babati - Dodoma – Iringa – Igawa – Mbeya – Tunduma ✓
Zambia: Nakonde – Mpika – Kapiri – Kabwe – Lusaka – Kafue – Mazabuka – Monze – Choma – Livingstone ✓
Zimbabwe: Victoria Falls – Bulawayo – Plumtree ✓
Botswana: Francistown – Palapye – Mahalapye – Gaborone – Lobatse – ✓
South Africa: Ramatlabama – Cape Town ✓

TAH 5
Senegal: Dakar - Diam Niadio – Mbour – Kaoloack – Kaffrine – Tambacounda –Kedougou – Saraya – Falémé ✓
Mali:  – Kéniéba – Kita – Bamako – Bougouni – Sikasso –
Burkina Faso: Koloko - Bobo Dioulasso – Boromo – Ouagadougou – Koupéla - Fada Ngourma – Kantchari –
Niger: Foetchango – Niamey – Dosso – Dogondoutchi - Birnin N'Konni – Tsernaoua - Guidan Roumdji – Maradi –
Nigeria: Jibiya – Katsine – Bichi – Kano – Kari – Potiskum – Damaturu – Maiduguri – Dikwa -
Cameroon: Fotokol – Maltam – Kousséri
Chad: Kousséri - N'djamena

TAH 6
Chad: N’djamena – Massaguet – Ngoura – Bokoro – Mangalmé -Oum Hadjer – Abéché – Adre
Sudan: - El Geneina – Zalingei – Nyala -En Nouhud - El Obeid – Kosti – Sennar - Wad Medani – Gedaref – Doka - Gallabat
Ethiopia: Metema – Azèzo – Werota – Weldiya – Dese – Kembolcha – Bati – Mille – Dobi –
Djibouti: Galafi – Dikhil - Djibouti

TAH 7
Senegal: Dakar- Diam Niadio – Mbour – Kaolack – Sokone – Karang – Karang ✓
Gambia: –Barra – Banjul –  ✓
Senegal: Séléti – Diouloulou – Bignona – Ziguinchor – Mpack ✓
Guinea Bissau: – Bula –Safim – Bissau – Safim – Nhacra – Jugudul – Bambadinca – Quebo
Guinea: – Dabiss – Boké – Boffa – Du breka - Conakry – Coyah – Forécariah – Pamelap
Sierra Leone: - Port Loko – Masiaka – Freetown – Masiaka – Taiama – Bo – Bandajuma – Mano River Union Bridge
Liberia: Mano River Union Bridge – Klay – Monrovia – Kakata – Totota – Gbarnga – Ganta – Tappita – Tobli – Blay –
Cote d'Ivoire: Toulepleu – Blolékin – Guiglo - Duekoué – Daloa – Yamoussoukro – Toumodi – Abidjan - Grand Bassam – Aboisso –
Ghana: Elubo – Axim – Sekondi Takoradi - Accra – Dawa – Sogakofe – Denu –
Togo: Lomé – Hilakondji
Benin: – Cotonou – Seme krake
Nigeria: – Badagry – Lagos

TAH 8
Nigeria: Lagos – Shagamu – Benin – Onitsha – Enugu – Abakaliki – Ikom-Mfum- Ekok
Cameroon: Ekok – Mamfé – Bamenda – Bafoussam – Foumban – Tibati – Meidougou - Garoua Boulaï
CAR: Bouar – Baoro – Bossemptélé – Yaloké – Bossembélé – Bangui – Damara – Sibut – Bambari – Bangassou
DRC: – Bondo – Dulia – Buta – Kisangani - Nia Nia – Komanda – Beni – Kasindi ✓
Uganda: Kasindi – Mbarara – Kampala – Malaba ✓
Kenya: Malaba – Eldoret – Nakuru – Nairobi – Voi – Mombasa ✓

TAH 9
Mozambique: Beira – Machipanda –  ✓
Zimbabwe: Mutare – Harare – Chirundu ✓
Zambia: Chirundu – Lusaka – Chisamba – Kabwe – Kapiri – Ndola – Kitwe – Chingola – Kasumbalesa ✓
DRC: Kasumbalesa – Lubumbashi – Likasi – Nguba – Kolwezi – Dilolo ✓
Angola: Luena – Kuito – Cachiungo - Alto Hama - Lobito ✓

TAH 10
Djibouti: Djibouti (Sea Port) – Ethiopian Border
Ethiopia: Djibouti Border– Modjo - Moyale (Kenya Border)
Kenya:  Moyale – Nairobi – Busia (Uganda Border) ✓
Uganda: Busia – Kampala – Rwanda Border ✓
Rwanda:  Uganda Border – Kigali – Burundi Border ✓
Burundi: Rwanda Border – Bujumbura – DRC Border ✓
DRC: Burundi Border – Kananga – Tshikapa – Kikwit – Kinshasa ✓
Congo: Brazzaville – Mbinda ✓
Gabon: Mbinda – Kougouleu - Medouneu ✓
Equatorial Guinea: Medouneu - Bata ✓
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: jwood.ok on January 06, 2019, 03:59:59 pm
Namibia B Roads (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&sys=namb) now fully drafted.

Zambia Trunk Roads (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&sys=zmbt) are also fully drafted.

I've also outlined Botswana and Zimbabwe routes.

And, as I got fed up with drafting lengthy routes through remote areas, the small island of Mauritius (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=km&rg=MUS) now has routes drafted.

Thank you for your work on this.  I am not sure if I've ever been clear on this before or not, but what is the difference between devel & preview?  Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).

Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help, specifically in Zambia.  I lived there growing up - long enough ago that things have probably changed, but I still know a decent amount of people there, so it's possible if need help from boots on the ground, I may be able to get some info.

Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: michih on January 06, 2019, 04:06:32 pm
I am not sure if I've ever been clear on this before or not, but what is the difference between devel & preview?  Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).

Both are in HB but only preview systems are considered for stats. You cannot see devel systems on the region nor system maps.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 06, 2019, 04:24:10 pm
Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).
Yep.
Quote
Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help
Unless you can source a proper route log of the SADC Regional Trunk Road Network, with numbers for every route (the only map I've found where the numbers are clear isn't complete, and is outdated as more routes have been added to the network - including the entire DRC), I believe I'm OK.

Anyway, Malawi is coming... Angola and Mozambique are rather vast and somewhat messy, the DRC is even worse. Maybe Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi to come?
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: neroute2 on January 06, 2019, 04:56:15 pm
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: jwood.ok on January 06, 2019, 04:58:38 pm
Is it that you can actually log preview (though they are subject to changing?).
Yep.
Quote
Also, let me know if there is anything I can do to help
Unless you can source a proper route log of the SADC Regional Trunk Road Network, with numbers for every route (the only map I've found where the numbers are clear isn't complete, and is outdated as more routes have been added to the network - including the entire DRC), I believe I'm OK.

Anyway, Malawi is coming... Angola and Mozambique are rather vast and somewhat messy, the DRC is even worse. Maybe Tanzania, Rwanda and Burundi to come?

I can understand that info being hard to get ahold of.  Thank you for all the work you've done!
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 07, 2019, 10:39:06 am
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.
Thanks, the stuff on the RTRN wasn't that helpful - other than suggesting some numbers I have aren't right, but only giving me the illegible numbers on the network map as alternatives. As the numbers on every iteration of the network map were different to many of the ones on the EADC 'extend the system map', I can't take that map with clear numbers as being useful.  ::)
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: si404 on January 10, 2019, 04:44:23 pm
http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/publications/Updated%20RSTMP%20Final%20Report_combined_2.pdf has a bunch of general info on the African networks starting on page 86 of 325.
Thanks, the stuff on the RTRN wasn't that helpful - other than suggesting some numbers I have aren't right, but only giving me the illegible numbers on the network map as alternatives. As the numbers on every iteration of the network map were different to many of the ones on the EADC 'extend the system map', I can't take that map with clear numbers as being useful.  ::)
The EADC stuff meant I found a better numbering proposal from a Tanzanian document about those routes.

And, actually with a very keen eye, I was able to get a few numbers off the SADC RTRN map in that Rwandan document. I believe I've got all the ones not in Angola or the DRC. I've got most of Angola, but the DRC is full of weird numbers. There's definitely an RTRxxxA route that's much much longer than RTRxxx, and the two routes aren't really related.

From what I gather from further research, they keep creating proposals (for both development systems) of the network with proposed numbering (which is pretty consistent for the SADC, but still not always the same), but haven't concreted it (and when they do it might be as a combined thing), which is why I've failed to find any authoritative numbering for either.

That said, the main purpose of me using these systems was to get a toe hold in various countries before doing a whole system - and other than a few bits (and much of Uganda), they are concurrent with either systems I've now made, or will make (agon, bdirn, codn, mozn, rwarn, zafr).

Uganda and Keyna might have finally got rid of the old East African road numbering (that has the main roads in both countries the A104 and A109, with Kenya have a few more roads, some with important numbers, but not all. You'd have thought the Nairobi-Mombassa road would be worthy of a low number even in a regional system, ditto the Nairobi-Kampala road. After all they are part of a continental system with a single-digit number. But no, they don't even get a single number - both are 'don't turn off to stay on the A104, and follow the A109 instead'), but I can't find anything. At least Kenya has lots of other roads numbered meaning that the old A and B system is easy to create files for with the plethora of C, D and E (and basic towns). Uganda is a mess with just 4 numbered roads if I ignore the EADC and TAH roads, and two of them are rather short and there's several major corridors lacking actual numbers rather than regional/continental systems.
Title: Re: More African highways?
Post by: michih on January 12, 2019, 03:00:36 am
Should we move the thread to "In-progress Highway Systems & Work"?
Shouldn't we have a sticky with (potential) systems overview there?
Title: Re: SADC/EAC systems thread
Post by: si404 on January 12, 2019, 06:32:20 am
Rwanda source - http://www.rtda.gov.rw/fileadmin/templates/documents/RWANDA_ROAD_NETWORK__October__2017_.pdf
DRC source - http://www.congo-foret.com/wp-content/uploads/Map_drc_GL101-General.pdf
Title: Re: SADC/EAC systems thread
Post by: si404 on January 20, 2019, 11:56:47 am
Unlike the Southern Africans, ex-French West Africa gives us the jackpot of a map where you can't make out the numbers and <drum roll> a list of their regional organisation's road system. Though like the others, it's mostly meaningless beyond a way into a country.

http://open_jicareport.jica.go.jp/pdf/12084638_02.pdf
Table 4‐1 List of UEMOA Community Roads
Code Length (km) Route
CU1 1,897 Dakar – Bissau – Abidjan – Lomé – Cotonou – Porto Novo – Igolo – Nigeria Border
CU2 a 4,158 Dakar (Kaolack) – Tambacounda – Kidira – Kayes – Nicoro – Bamako – Sikasso – Bobo Dioulasso – Ouagadougou – Niamey –Zinder – N’guiguimi – Tchad Border   
CU2 b 788 Tambacounda – Kedougou – Saraya –Kenieba – Kita – Bamako   
CU3 a 975 Algeria Border – Assamaka – Agadez – Zinder – Magaria – Nigeria Border   
CU3b 605 Algeria Border – Tin Zaouten – Kidal – Gao   
CU4 65 Mauritania Border – Nioro of Sahel   
CU5 1,754 Guinea Border (Kouremale) – Bamako – Ségou – Mopti – Gao – Tillabéry – Niamey
CU6 991 Boubouni – Odienné – Man – San Pédro   
CU7a 760 Abdjan – Bouaké – Ferké – Ouangolodougou – Zegoua – Sikasso (CU2a)   
CU7b 205 Ouangolodougou – Bobo Dioulasso   
CU8 140 Ghana Border – Pô – Ouagadougou   
CU9 800 Lomé – Atakpamé – Kara – Sinkansé – Tenkodougou – Koupéla   
CU10 709 Cotonou – Dassa – Save – ParakouN’Dali – Kandi – Malanville – Gaya – Dosso   
CU11 296 Tamabcounda Guinéé Border – Kandika – Bafata – Bambadinka   
CU12 355 Bobo Dioulasso – Dédougou – Tougan – Ouahigouya   
CU13 473 Ouagadougou – Ouahigouya – Koro – Mopti (CU5)   
CU14 550 Ouagadougou – Dori – Téra – Farié – Namaro – Niamey   
CU15 342 Kantchiari (CU2a) – Diapaga – Ganikoara – Kandi – Segbana – Nigeria   
CU16 829 Niamey – Filingué – Tahoua – Agadez   
CU17 116 Tahoua – Dabnou – Tsernaoua (CU2a)   
CU18 993 Guinee Border(Sirana) – Odiénné – Ferké – Tehini – Bouna – Ghana Border(Bouna) – Kara – Ouaké – Djougou – Affon – Dali – Tchicandou – Nigeria Border   
CU19a 200 Guessabo – Yamoussoukro   
CU19b 306 Bouaké – N’Bahiakro – Daoukro – Agnibilékrou – Ghana Border   
CU19c 216 Ghana Border – Atakpame – Doumé – Tchetti – Savalou – Logozohe – Glazoué   
CU19d 60 CU10 – Save – Oke Owo – Nigeria Border   
CU20 486 Parakou – Djougou – Natitingou – Porga – Tindangou – Fada Ngourma   
CU21 277 (CU18) – Boundiali – Tengrea – Kolondieba – Zantiébougou (CU2a)   
CU22 324 Pâ (CU2a) – Dano – Cote d’IvoireBorder – Doropo – Bouna   
CU23 82 CU9 – Dapaong – Korbongou – Ponio – Kompienga – Tindangou (CU20)   
CU24 328 Ghana Border – Palimé – Nosté – Kétou – Illara – Nigeria Border   
CU25 380 Sakonisé (CU2a) – Koudougou – Dédougou – Noua – Djibasso – Bénéna – San (CU5)   
CU26 180 Ouagadougou – Léo – Ghana Border   
CU27 293 Bobo Dioulasso – Fô – Koutiala – Bla (CU5)   
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: michih on January 20, 2019, 12:22:11 pm
Are the international TAH / CU routes signed?
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: si404 on January 20, 2019, 04:44:56 pm
Are the international TAH / CU routes signed?
no - I'm mostly only bothered because they spur me to begin places that look like hard work. As I've said at least once, these systems are mostly development corridors (like Appliances Development or High Priority Corridors, or TEN-T core routes) that the international bodies have grand ambitions for it being an Interstate/E Road sort of network one day.

Mozambique would have it's national system done if the international ones hadn't driven me to do it. See also DRC and Angola when I've done them. The other Southern hemisphere African country (we'll ignore that small bit of Somalia), Madagascar, has zero interest to me, but those Atlantic Coast countries do - purely because there's gaps in the international systems (namely the RTR) that I want to fill. Congo, the small islands, etc they were easy small systems, but otherwise the initial drive was these international systems.

The same was true for Europe. I'd either done the E roads for CHM, or had to overhaul when we moved to TM, and thus worked on tier 4 where it was part done. We almost certainly wouldn't have routes in Russia, Asia, etc if it wasn't for the international systems, and can add Malawi, Tanzania, etc to that list now.
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: michih on January 21, 2019, 01:04:26 pm
If the entire international route systems are unsigned but drafted, does it mean that we can add other totally unsigned systems  too? Systems which only exist on maps? Like the potential tier 5 systems for Hungary or Croatia?
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: si404 on March 04, 2019, 11:42:42 am
If the entire international route systems are unsigned but drafted, does it mean that we can add other totally unsigned systems  too? Systems which only exist on maps? Like the potential tier 5 systems for Hungary or Croatia?
There's a large difference here - the international route systems are looking at being signed in the future, unlike Hungary and Croatia tier 5 systems.

And certainly, until they are signed, these systems aren't going to be activated. Their main purpose in being included is to give an 'in' to countries we wouldn't have otherwise bothered with - they might even be removed if plans to sign them don't happen and they are able to be replaced by national systems (which mostly they are concurrent with).
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: michih on March 04, 2019, 04:30:49 pm
If the entire international route systems are unsigned but drafted, does it mean that we can add other totally unsigned systems  too? Systems which only exist on maps? Like the potential tier 5 systems for Hungary or Croatia?
There's a large difference here - the international route systems are looking at being signed in the future, unlike Hungary and Croatia tier 5 systems.

What's the indication of it?

When have the African international routes been defined  / agreed? Recently?

And certainly, until they are signed, these systems aren't going to be activated.

Ok, haven't known. Fine with me.

Their main purpose in being included is to give an 'in' to countries we wouldn't have otherwise bothered with - they might even be removed if plans to sign them don't happen and they are able to be replaced by national systems (which mostly they are concurrent with).

Thanks, I appreciate it :)
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: michih on May 18, 2022, 03:16:27 pm
Similar to previous questions: What's the story behind the afrrtr - SADC Regional Trunk Roads (https://travelmapping.net/hb/?sys=afrrtr) system? Who has defined them? Are they signed?
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: si404 on May 18, 2022, 05:15:46 pm
Similar to previous questions: What's the story behind the afrrtr - SADC Regional Trunk Roads (https://travelmapping.net/hb/?sys=afrrtr) system? Who has defined them?
Read the thread. Or this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SADC_Regional_Trunk_Road_Network

Quote
Are they signed?
I don't think so, but they've designed how signing them would look and seem to be planning on doing so.

They are staying on preview for now. They may disappear if I ever get round to finishing Angola and DRC's national networks. Or they may have a review requested if they start being signed.
Title: Re: African international systems thread
Post by: michih on May 18, 2022, 05:35:26 pm
Thanks. Fine to me.