Author Topic: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1.+2. Ordnung  (Read 14974 times)

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Offline michih

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autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1.+2. Ordnung
« on: September 03, 2022, 10:41:37 am »
The preview system has more than 80 routes for almost 700 miles: https://travelmapping.net/user/system.php?u=michih&sys=autl4
The system is ready for peer-reviewing. Please report issues here!

Additional info can be found under: https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=1776.msg28949#msg28949
Route list and map: https://www.land-oberoesterreich.gv.at/37083.htm

Edit: Title changed to include "Landesstraßen 2. Ordnung"
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 02:00:39 am by michih »

Offline si404

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2022, 07:59:23 am »
General questions

 - about border points: You've gone with the lower level Bezirke names, rather than the Länder, but these are Länder systems, so shouldn't the border labels be Länder-based, rather than Bezirke-based? I guess it's awkward as you'd have AT4/AT5 format if you go with ISO-3166-2, but Obe/Sal formats would work (Obe for Oberösterreich) as O/N, O/S (or O/Sbg) is not great.

 - do numbers duplicate between these Landesstraßen systems? They don't in the two signed systems we have in the browser, so do we need the banners (which, if needed, probably ought to be something less obscure than the ISO numbers: 'O' and 'T'?)

L501 - add point for Uberackern?

L502 - B148 is off

L503, L504, L505 - fine

L506 - add point for L1147_S (and L1147 -> L1147_N)

L507, L508, L509, L509a, L510, L511, L512, L513, L513Rie, L514, L515, L516, L517, L518, L519, L520, L521, L522, L525, L528, L529, L531, L532, L533, L534, L536, L537, L538, L539, L540, L541, L541a, L543, L544, L545, L546, L547, L548, L549, L550, L551, L552, L553, L554, L555, L556, L557, L558, L559 - fine

L559Hau - is two segements, Hausmann:
Obe/Nie http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.012093&lon=14.488942
Nie/Obe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.009004&lon=14.492021

and Kleinraming:
Obe/Nie http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=48.005145&lon=14.493397
Nie/Obe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.997173&lon=14.497511

L559Ste, L559Win, L560, L561 - fine

L562 - B138 should be _N/_S no?

L563 - add points for Pucking and Freindorf?

L563a, L564, L565 - fine

L566
 - L1394 -> L1349/L1394
 - A1 is slightly off (also E60)

L567 - fine

L568 - L1402 -> L1402/L1403

L569 - B3_Ste, B3_Pul would directional suffixes be better to show concurrency?

L570 - Dir -> MacStr_W

L571, L572, L573, L575, L576, L579 - fine

L581 - add point at north end of SamStr?

L584 - L1528 -> L1528/L1531

L585, L587, L588 - fine

L589 - L1552 -> L1552/L1558

L590 - fine

Edit: Lander abbrevs
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 08:13:10 am by si404 »

Offline si404

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2022, 08:09:36 am »
There's some abbreviations for Lander on German wikipedia
Code: [Select]
English German Abbrev ISO-3166-2
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Burgenland Burgen­land B / Bgld. AT1
Carinthia Kärnten K / Ktn. AT2
Lower Austria Nieder­österreich N / NÖ AT3
Upper Austria Ober­österreich O / OÖ AT4
Salzburg Salzburg S / Sbg. AT5
Styria Steier­mark St / Stmk. AT6
Tyrol Tirol T AT7
Vorarlberg Vorarl­berg V / Vbg. AT8
Vienna Wien W AT9
« Last Edit: September 17, 2022, 08:15:28 am by si404 »

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2022, 11:03:39 am »
General questions

 - about border points: You've gone with the lower level Bezirke names, rather than the Länder, but these are Länder systems, so shouldn't the border labels be Länder-based, rather than Bezirke-based? I guess it's awkward as you'd have AT4/AT5 format if you go with ISO-3166-2, but Obe/Sal formats would work (Obe for Oberösterreich) as O/N, O/S (or O/Sbg) is not great.

The road list of Tyrol has them listed by Bezirk (district) and the very first "border" occurance on drafting was a district border where the road number changed. Was it the one Chris recently mentioned (last pic)? Thus, I thought I should always use district names to be consistently.

- do numbers duplicate between these Landesstraßen systems?

Yes, e.g. L47 exists in Vorarlberg, Carinthia and Lower Austria.

They don't in the two signed systems we have in the browser, so do we need the banners (which, if needed, probably ought to be something less obscure than the ISO numbers: 'O' and 'T'?)

I want to apply the same rules as we implement all over the world, and stick with ISO codes.

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2022, 12:16:13 pm »

Offline si404

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2022, 01:50:46 pm »
<snip>
All fine

There's no datacheck errors, and the few NMPs seem to be false positives.

Have a look tomorrow, and make sure it's all OK, though the changes look absolutely fine, and it should be fine to activate (and I'm not delaying you so you don't get to trigger the milestones you point out in the statistics thread - you can do it tonight if you want).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 02:13:58 pm by si404 »

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2022, 10:57:40 am »
System will be activated with the next site update: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6081

Offline Duke87

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2023, 07:20:12 pm »
Sounds reasonable. Have you checked that the 4-digit roads in Upper Austria are signed too?

Soooo I'm looking and looking and I can't even find a sign for a 3-digit Landesstraßen in Upper Austria.

So okay let's worry about Salzburg for now. We know they have signs!

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2023, 07:36:22 am »
Sounds reasonable. Have you checked that the 4-digit roads in Upper Austria are signed too?

Soooo I'm looking and looking and I can't even find a sign for a 3-digit Landesstraßen in Upper Austria.

Only on km post. Examples from my 2022 research before GSV was available: L531 + L506 (low quality images though).

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2023, 08:27:24 am »
Just a quick check on GSV:
- L501 (1. Ordnung, in HB)
- L1024 (2. Ordnung, not yet in HB)

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2023, 02:33:20 pm »
Sounds reasonable. Have you checked that the 4-digit roads in Upper Austria are signed too?

Soooo I'm looking and looking and I can't even find a sign for a 3-digit Landesstraßen in Upper Austria.

@Duke87, what do you think now? Should I add the 4-digit routes?

Offline Duke87

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2023, 08:00:34 pm »
@Duke87, what do you think now? Should I add the 4-digit routes?

Precedent from this side of the pond is that a route whose number appears on milemarkers and only on milemarkers does not count as "signed". Going by that I don't even think the 3-digit ones belong in TM.

Buuut I also know we're far looser about requiring things be signed in continental Europe, and deleting an active system seems silly.

So IDK. Leave it as is and move on I guess.

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2023, 01:34:59 am »
Precedent from this side of the pond is that a route whose number appears on milemarkers and only on milemarkers does not count as "signed". Going by that I don't even think the 3-digit ones belong in TM.

German state road* numbers do also only** appear on km posts just as Tyrol and Styria. We agreed back then, that it's enough. To be honest, I did could not even check for km posts due to the non-existing GSV coverage back then. I'm generally gone with official data + OSM + GM all over Europe***. I think that we do have systems in Africa and Asia which are even "less signed". I don't have an issue with that.



*14 active systems
**I've actually seen about five S road numbers on direction signs in Saxony by myself though.
***Most of my European countries are really very good in signposting so that we can easily trust them in combination with OSM.


I think that we have precedent from Salzburg for including "Landesstraßen 2. Ordnung" to the tier 5 "Landesstraßen" system. I'd add them.

Edit: Adding "+ OSM + GM"
« Last Edit: December 31, 2023, 09:48:32 am by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1. Ordnung
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2024, 10:04:33 am »
I've started drafting the 4-digit routes as a temporary system so that it can be reviewed later: https://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?sys=autl42 I'll merge the systems on activation.

Offline michih

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Re: autl4: Upper Austria Landesstraßen 1.+2. Ordnung
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2024, 12:21:09 pm »
The new 2. Ordnung system has more than 450 routes for almost 1,800 miles: https://travelmapping.net/user/system.php?u=michih&sys=autl42
The system is ready for peer-reviewing. It will be merged with the active 1. Ordnung system on its activation.