Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => Updates to Highway Data => Topic started by: froggie on July 13, 2022, 12:18:32 am

Title: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: froggie on July 13, 2022, 12:18:32 am
A TM user who lives in DC privately messaged me regarding the ALT US 1 routing we have in TM.  He's under the impression that ALT US 1 still uses Bladensburg Rd down to the Starburst then Maryland Ave in towards downtown.  It's been a long hot minute since I was in DC regularly, but what are we using as the basis for our current alignment?
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: Markkos1992 on July 13, 2022, 05:52:54 am
My belief is that it came down to this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9181374,-76.9718645,3a,37.5y,232.54h,84.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy-h615PM1IOIjhy5kAB9nw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).  I do not think that it is currently possible to follow what may be that official routing all the way through.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: mapmikey on July 13, 2022, 07:14:16 am
US 1 ALT was removed from Bladensburg south of New York Ave by 1962 (and in fact used New York before US 50 did).

The best map is in the 1962 application to move US 50 to New York Ave
https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=0175df28-4de6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true

Incidentally, DC tried to eliminate US 1 ALT entirely in 1966.  Evidently MD wasn't on board with this...
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: Markkos1992 on July 13, 2022, 07:43:46 am
^The link is giving me a 404.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: yakra on July 13, 2022, 07:48:31 am
^ I'm getting a 404.
Is this one of those cases where you have to log into, or at least open, another page first and then the link works?
ISTR seeing something like this recently on AARoads; forget what thread...
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: mapmikey on July 13, 2022, 09:26:37 am
Yes...have to open the AASHO database link for the other links to work...

https://grmservices.grmims.com/vsearch/portal/public/na4/aashto/default
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: Markkos1992 on July 13, 2022, 09:30:37 am
Thank you mapmikey.  It is interesting that the map still shows the old US 240 designation.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: dave1693 on July 13, 2022, 12:51:24 pm
A map from a 1962 application would show US 240, which wasn't decommissioned until a decade later.

Another item which may be of interest is a Rand McNally map, supposedly from 1946, showing US 1 Alt going north on 3rd St SW/NW to New York Avenue. The Maryland Ave / Bladensburg Rd alignment is only marked here as US 50 Alt. I'm not sure how much weight to put on this, however..
https://web.archive.org/web/20091027152210/http://www.geocities.com/rvdroz/1946dc.jpg
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: mapmikey on July 13, 2022, 01:57:26 pm
Some photos:

https://ddotlibrary.omeka.net/items/show/37#lg=1&slide=122
https://ddotlibrary.omeka.net/items/show/37#lg=1&slide=121
https://ddotlibrary.omeka.net/items/show/37#lg=1&slide=123
https://s3.amazonaws.com/omeka-net/13460/archive/files/8e02fb3fb1ed8a631c556a68f4e7c1b7.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI3ATG3OSQLO5HGKA&Expires=1658361600&Signature=rYXsTbMwSAhBc7WFIYoXVoV1zSk%3D
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: IMGoph on July 14, 2022, 08:05:08 pm
(Should start by mentioning that I am the DC resident that texted Froggie about this yesterday!)

Great photos and maps! The photos are all interesting in that they show the former routing of US 50 quite well, and we all know the routing today. They also show the routing of Alt US 1 as it existed in the early 60s, but do we have definitive proof that it *wasn't* switched to run on Bladensburg Road and Maryland Avenue through Trinidad and Capitol Hill? It seems odd that mapmakers from National Geographic to Rand McNally to ADC have all been showing that routing on their maps for 60 years and that they've all been wrong. Maybe it's groupthink, but I'm inclined to trust those cartographic editors until I see some stronger proof otherwise.

Guess I need to do more digging, maybe contact people at DDOT and see what I can find.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: mapmikey on July 14, 2022, 09:44:37 pm
US 1 ALT was already moved to New York Ave by 1947.  See this 1947 application and the last 3 pages show the before and after very clearly of ALL US Routes in DC - https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=baae2bd8-33e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true


Both of these show US 1 ALT still using New York to 3rd St NW.

The 1972 application to drop US 240 - https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=bcbad72e-4de6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true

The 1984 application to add I-195 - https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=5cb8d20c-06d5-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true

It is not possible to drive US 1 ALT's longtime routing once off New York Ave heading southbound...many obstacles in the way.

Virginia State Officials starting in 1964 show US 1 ALT staying on 3rd all the way to the SW Freeway and have shown it that way ever since.

However: The 1989 AASHTO route log has US 1 ALT following US 50 back to US 1.  But confusingly, it appears to show US 1 meeting US 1 ALT where it leaves I-395 in DC (matching the Virginia maps).  It is possible the US 1 ALT log doesn't show every step.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: neroute2 on July 15, 2022, 12:11:57 am
However: The 1989 AASHTO route log has US 1 ALT following US 50 back to US 1.  But confusingly, it appears to show US 1 meeting US 1 ALT where it leaves I-395 in DC (matching the Virginia maps).  It is possible the US 1 ALT log doesn't show every step.
My best guess is that this was either accidentally left in or it pointlessly overlapped US 1 to the former end.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: mapmikey on July 15, 2022, 10:41:21 am
Here is the log (http://www.vahighways.com/1altdclog.jpg).  The US 1 log may also be missing steps as it has meeting I-395 and US 50 on the same line and that is definitely wrong.

Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: IMGoph on July 15, 2022, 11:41:23 am
Here is the log (http://www.vahighways.com/1altdclog.jpg).  The US 1 log may also be missing steps as it has meeting I-395 and US 50 on the same line and that is definitely wrong.

Good lord, what a difficult read. In addition, you'd think a group nominally connected to the District would think to add quadrants to those street names. Which 6th Street? Which 14th Street? There are 4 of each - a lot of places where these intersections can be happening.

Good communication takes effort, and that log sure isn't an example of good.  :P
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: Duke87 on July 17, 2022, 10:09:18 pm
As I inherited but did not draft DC I cannot speak to why it was mapped the way it is.

DC, of course, is not really great and signing or documenting routes, so some interpretation of available info is at times necessary.

This discussion here seems to be pointing towards the way it is mapped being officially correct (in spite of what some third party sources may show), so I am inclined to leave it alone unless someone can find a smoking gun to the contrary.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: cl94 on July 17, 2022, 10:16:34 pm
There *are* a couple of DC-area road enthusiasts who may be privy to better information due to their positions and who I would trust with regards to routings in the District, but neither are on TM.
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: SSOWorld on July 17, 2022, 10:17:05 pm
DC, of course, is not really great and signing or documenting routes, so some interpretation of available info is at times necessary.
29 yes, others, not so much
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: IMGoph on August 02, 2022, 10:49:49 am
I see a lot of examples of signage brought up as proof of routing, but of course there are often other sources given to refute signage.

Anyway, these overhead signs on New York Ave east of Bladensburg are relatively new:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9174269,-76.969452,3a,75y,278.94h,101.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8PHaRm3v4CxrfQTJgHhklA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: DC: ALT US 1 routing
Post by: Markkos1992 on August 02, 2022, 12:08:36 pm
It does not surprise me at all when I see DC posting erroneous signage.

Also, we currently have a similar situation like this in Va Beach with VA 407, VA 408, and VA 414 (even though these routes not existed in Va Beach for over 20 years).  (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=4522.msg24992#msg24992)