Author Topic: TX: Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway  (Read 1103 times)

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Offline US 89

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TX: Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway
« on: December 18, 2019, 10:39:39 pm »
I was browsing my mileage in Texas and noticed that Beltway 8 is marked entirely along the Sam Houston Tollway. However, this is not the case for the southwestern section of the route between I-45 and SH 225, where Beltway 8 runs along the frontage road and the main tollway is unnumbered.

Offline neroute2

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Re: TX: toll roads
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2019, 10:29:05 am »
II decided to look at all Texas toll roads and see what needs fixing.

Toll 49 is signed nowhere as Loop 49, even though that's what it was planned as. Toll should be a separate system or at least a banner.

Toll 550 is the mainlanes and FM 511 is the frontage roads. As of May 2018, there is no 550 signage on the gap, so 550 should be split in two (endpoints at FM3248 and FM1847).

Beltway 8 is the frontage roads except between just east of EllaBlvd and just east of OldHumRd and between just south of US90_E and JacPortBlvd. There is no Beltway 8 on the east side between TX225 and JacPortBlvd. The Sam Houston Tollway is signed from east of OldHumRd to south of US90_E and from I-10(781) all the way clockwise to I-45(60C), and does not exist on the rest near the airport or on the east side. In effect, the only overlaps are between just east of EllaBlvd and I-45(60C) and between I-10(781) and JacPortBlvd.

The Tomball Tollway has its own lanes in the middle of SH 249 between the ramps south of NorBlvd and TX249Bus_N. 249 hops onto the main lanes south of there.

I-10 Toll is a separate tollway in the middle of I-10 from just west of 751 to just west of 761B (eastbound) and just east of 763 (westbound).

SH 99 is signed on the frontage roads (where available) from I-69_S to just north of WesTlwy. The tolled main lanes at interchanges (seven segments total, though southbound the bypasses at BelBlvd and WesTlwy are combined) are signed as Grand Parkway Toll Road and rarely as Toll 99. North of there, SH 99 is a freeway until just north of KinBlvd, where it leaves for the frontage roads and another Toll 99 begins. SH 99 signage on the frontage roads ends at FraRd, despite the free frontage roads continuing north. From there all the way to I-69_N it's just Toll 99 with no free SH 99. I'd probably put Toll 99 in two pieces, one from the beginning of freeway south of RivParkDr to WesTlwy and the other from I-10(743) to I-69_N. SH 99 is one continuous route from I-69_S to FraRd. I don't know how I'd handle the places where SH 99 exits to the frontage roads just for an interchange. Finally, SH 99Bay is signed as Toll 99 from I-10(799) to FisRd and plain SH 99 from FisRd to TX146Bus.

SH 130 is only signed on the freeway on the I-410 and I-10 overlaps; the rest is Toll 130. Toll 130 has US 183 for its frontage roads between 470 and 458. FM 685 is its frontage roads from 428A to 425, and that's it.

Toll 45 begins just east of PecParkBlvd, with the frontage roads signed as both SH 45 and RM 620. RM 620 leaves and SH 45 ends at RM620_E. The next piece of frontage SH 45 begins at TXLp1[sic] and runs east to DonDr. Another begins at HeaBlvd, and should end at TX130(428B), but does not seem to be signed there. Finally, SH 45Bea is signed as such west of TXLp1 but as Toll 45 to the east.

Toll 1 (not Loop 1) exists solo from TX45_N south to Merrilltown Drive. From there south to just south of ScoRidPkwy, the frontage roads are signed as both Loop 1 and FM 1325. Then Loop 1 hops on the freeway (FM 1325 sticks to the frontage roads until FM1325_S), and quickly another Toll 1 begins between FM734 and FM1325_S as express lanes. These express lanes end at LakeAusBlvd.

The south end of Toll 183A is northbound in the middle of the TX45/620 interchange and southbound at the slip ramp just north of US183_S. US 183 follows the frontage roads for a bit, but then it's a separate ROW to US183_N. Even the non-freeway part at the north end is signed as Toll 183A.

As far as I can tell, Toll 183 currently exists from just south of FM969 to just south of ManRd. The frontage roads are US 183.

Toll 71 is a short freeway past FM973 and TX45/130. SH 71 is signed on the frontage roads.

Toll 290 is the main lanes of US 290 from just east of US183 to FM734. US 290 is on the frontage roads.

The I-30 express lanes have no numerical designation. Same for I-635 east of US 75.

I-635 Toll begins just east of 18B and runs separately to I-35E south of 436. I-35E Toll is not signed until it splits from I-635 Toll in the middle of 440. And even then it's mostly signed as just Express Lanes if you're not on I-635 Toll. Or on 183 Toll, where it runs down the middle of Loop 12 first. What's signed or not signed as I-35E Toll is apparently a big mess.

I-820 Toll runs from 16A to 22B. There Toll 183 picks up, beginning at I-820(22) and east of EmpCenDr. Toll 121 overlaps Toll 183 west of TX121_N.

Toll 114 begins at TX26_S and apparently runs all the way to TX183.

Chisholm Trail Parkway (Toll CTP) has no continuous frontage roads. The Dallas North Tollway (Toll DNT) frontage roads are not a signed route.

Now for the more interesting DFW toll roads. Toll 360 begins north of US287, with SH 360 signed on the frontage roads. Just north of CampWisRd, Toll 360 ends and SH 360 hops on the freeway.

Sam Rayburn Tollway (Toll SRT) runs continuously inside the SH 121 frontage roads from US75_S south to HebPkwy. There SH 121 hops on the freeway (signed sometimes as just Toll SRT and sometimes as an overlap) until I-35E, where it again leaves for the frontage roads to the south end of Toll SRT just north of TX121BusLew_S.

President George Bush Turnpike (Toll PGBT) runs in the middle of the discontinuous frontage-only SH 161 and SH 190. SH 161 has three frontage-only pieces; we have the first two as 161 mainline and 161SIr, but the third one (161Irv) only exists south of BeltLineRd. The frontage roads north of there have no designation, and the main lanes are only Toll PGBT. 190 also has three mapped frontage-only segments, 190Car, 190Pla and 190 (main), but there is a fourth between MilRd and MerRd, and a fifth between MerLGCon and the turnaround south of MlrRd[sic].
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 01:18:04 pm by neroute2 »

Offline yakra

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Re: TX: Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 01:51:25 am »
I was browsing my mileage in Texas and noticed that Beltway 8 is marked entirely along the Sam Houston Tollway.
In the HB? I'm not sure how you'd make this distinction; points centered between the main freeway lanes and points centered between the frontage roads will, in practice, have the same end appearance in the HB.

However, this is not the case for the southwestern section of the route between I-45 and SH 225, where Beltway 8 runs along the frontage road and the main tollway is unnumbered.
Shapefiles show the main lanes as Third Party Tollroad, and the frontage roads as On System Highways, RTE_PRFX_C = SL. RTE_NM and ST_NM attributes for both main & frontage roads indicate SL 8 at every point I've checked.
This info might lead one to believe the whole complex is SL 8. As far as signage goes, where the designation ducks between main & frontage roads would be left to GMSV. Oh, fun.
FWIW, on the northeastern section from just E of I-69 to just S of US90, the frontage roads aren't shown at all, despite being fully built out in 1995, before the main lanes even were. So at least that much is screwy.
Per the designation file, SL 8 was first designated in 1969 as a full loop "From IH 45 north of Houston... to the point of beginning." In 1978, the designation was truncated, the "section from IH 10 southward to SH 225 cancelled."
That notwithstanding, shapefiles show On System Highways, RTE_PRFX_C =  SL on the frontage roads on the TX TXLp8 I-10(781) JacPortBlvd segment. This is also signed. Delving deeper, SL 8 south is signed via the direct connector ramps from I-10(781) onto the main lanes. Signage even directs SL 8 traffic from the frontage road onto the main lanes farther down. At the next (last free) exit, there's no signage indicating SL 8 either ends or exits.
That would suggest to Joe Southbound Traveler that SL 8 continues right on south from there.

There is no Beltway 8 on the east side between TX225 and JacPortBlvd.
"Is and is not". Indeed, SL 8 is not signed northward from TX225.
For the sake of convenience & contributor sanity, I'll allow the SB signage to be the deciding factor here, declare the situation at TX225 to be a case of poor signage, and go no-build.

Toll should be a separate system or at least a banner.
I don't agree about the banner idea. As noted on AARoads, I decided for organizational purposes to group the numbered toll roads into the Tier-4 systems they were "born" from, even if they were cancelled and jurisdiction was transferred from TXDOT to another entity. Precedent goes all the way back to the numbered PTC routes, with their different shield style, included in usapa.
If it were the case that TXLp8 clearly did need to be truncated, thus begging for SamHouTlwy to be created to fill in the gap, I would be seriously considering a (select) "separate system" option. But as it stands it looks like I can just squeak by without doing this. I'm not saying the idea is off the table forever; I may come back to it at some point, but it's a very low priority.
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