Author Topic: freeways missing from usasf  (Read 8333 times)

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Offline kjslaughter

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Short freeway connectors around New York City
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2022, 11:05:04 am »
Not sure if this is best place to post.  After a couple of trips to NYC area now, I've got a couple of gaps where I took connecting "spurs" between highways that are not in TM.  Best I can tell, they aren't signed as state roads or even names, but seem important.  Ones in question are:

1) Brooklyn-Queens expressway East connecting I-278 to Grand Central Parkway.  This was route maps suggested and taken my Uber from LaGuardia into Manhattan.  Seems this one could added easily enough as a named freeway.

2) Unnamed road (with an exit!) between Hutchinson River Pkwy and I-684 in Westchester County.  When I made trip for work years ago, we went this route following signs via I-684 to Connecticut.  I wasn't driving or I clearly would have followed I-287.  Without a name, unsure how it could be added, but this gap in my travels still bothers me and don't know when I'll be in the area again to travel the TM mapped route via I-287.

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2022, 03:54:33 pm »
For the record, PA Highland Park Bridge is officially out of the running to be added to usasf (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5738.msg2728938#msg2728938).

Offline kjslaughter

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2022, 04:14:17 pm »
I had posted below a few weeks ago in Other Discussion, but had no replies as of yet and wasn't sure that was right board.  Reposting here as this may be the better thread:

After a couple of trips to NYC area now, I've got a couple of gaps where I took connecting "spurs" between highways that are not in TM.  Best I can tell, they aren't signed as state roads or always named, but seem important.  Ones in question are:

1) Brooklyn-Queens expressway East connecting I-278 to Grand Central Parkway.  This was route maps suggested and taken my Uber from LaGuardia into Manhattan.  Seems this one could added easily enough as a named freeway.

2) Unnamed road (with an exit!) between Hutchinson River Pkwy and I-684 in Westchester County.  When I made trip for work years ago, we went this route following signs via I-684 to Connecticut.  I wasn't driving or I clearly would have followed I-287.  Without a name, unsure how it could be added, but this gap in my travels still bothers me and don't know when I'll be in the area again to travel the TM mapped route via I-287.

Offline yakra

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2022, 06:22:13 pm »
I had posted below a few weeks ago in Other Discussion, but had no replies as of yet and wasn't sure that was right board.  Reposting here as this may be the better thread:
Posting on either board is fine IMO. I've merged the other post into this thread above just to keep the discussion in one place. Sorry for the slow reply, I've been obsessively working on speed optimizations for site update program.

1) Brooklyn-Queens expressway East connecting I-278 to Grand Central Parkway.  This was route maps suggested and taken my Uber from LaGuardia into Manhattan.  Seems this one could added easily enough as a named freeway.
From what I can see in the shapefiles, "Brooklyn-Queens expressway East" does seem to be the legit name for it. Any of the locals here care to weigh in?
I'd suggest truncating the name to BQExpyE per the #3 rule here.

Exit numbering gives me a little heartburn. There are no numbering collisions, but still. I'd say it counts as >1 sequence.
If there is more than one exit number sequence for a highway and no concurrent route to explain it, suggest a proposal in the forum what parenthetical distinction should be used. All exit numbers in a sequence get the same parenthetical suffix.
I suggest 43(278) for the one. And the other? Oy... 5(Gra) would fit with the other similar styles the manual does recommend for concurrencies. Keeping/changing this nomenclature got some discussion a while back, but IIRC no vote was taken on whether or not to update the manual.

2) Unnamed road (with an exit!) between Hutchinson River Pkwy and I-684 in Westchester County.  When I made trip for work years ago, we went this route following signs via I-684 to Connecticut.  I wasn't driving or I clearly would have followed I-287.  Without a name, unsure how it could be added, but this gap in my travels still bothers me and don't know when I'll be in the area again to travel the TM mapped route via I-287.
Also unsure what can be done without having a clear name.
Here's some info from a few different sources:
"I-684 - Hutchinson River Pkwy conn" per MilepointRoute2015 shapefiles
"Interstate 684" per SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt shapefiles
"East Spur 684I"
"Hutchinson River Parkway to I 684 southbound – Westchester County"
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Offline Duke87

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2022, 07:34:42 pm »
It's interesting to note that the "Brooklyn Queens Expressway East" has reference markers for I-278, which treat it as a sixth segment of such (note the second line). Staten Island is X6M1, Brooklyn is X2M2, Queens is X5M3, Manhattan is X4M4, The Bronx is X1M5, and the east BQE is X5M6.

There is maybe an argument to be made that this should be in usai as "I-278 (Jackson Heights, NY)" but I dunno.

If in usasf I agree with "BQExpyE". The name in question does not appear on any signs but has consistently appeared on maps over the years, at least.

Exit numbering gives me a little heartburn. There are no numbering collisions, but still. I'd say it counts as >1 sequence.
If there is more than one exit number sequence for a highway and no concurrent route to explain it, suggest a proposal in the forum what parenthetical distinction should be used. All exit numbers in a sequence get the same parenthetical suffix.
I suggest 43(278) for the one. And the other? Oy... 5(Gra) would fit with the other similar styles the manual does recommend for concurrencies.

I think you can get away with 3 point labels:
I-278
43
GraCenPkwy

and that avoids any exit numbering problems. "Exit 5" gets 1PPI'ed in with the last of those 3, and since there is no exit number for the mainline default into the Grand Central Parkway that point doesn't need to be labeled with a number.



As for NY 984J (that's the reference route number for the Hutch-684 connector), well, the option of putting it in usai as "I-684 (Harrison, NY)" is also out there.

Otherwise, yeah, it has neither a signed name nor a common name. If putting this in usasf I'd... frankly I'd just put it in as NY984J, since that's as real as any other of the names you pulled up but likely to be recognized by more people (I certainly know it as "984J" but had no idea any of those other names existed!)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 07:45:31 pm by Duke87 »

Offline yakra

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2022, 08:03:52 pm »
I think you can get away with 3 point labels:
I-278
43
GraCenPkwy

and that avoids any exit numbering problems. "Exit 5" gets 1PPI'ed in with the last of those 3, and since there is no exit number for the mainline default into the Grand Central Parkway that point doesn't need to be labeled with a number.
Agree re 1PPI, and the conclusions resulting from it. Phew. *wipes sweat from brow* (For realz. Just lugged 2 heavy bags back from the supermarket.)
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Offline cl94

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2022, 10:25:45 pm »
The BQE...yeah, "BQE East" is at least a name that is semi-official and known. I'd be for throwing that in usai given that NY considers it to be part of I-278, similar to Maryland and the 895 spurs.

As for NY 984J (that's the reference route number for the Hutch-684 connector), well, the option of putting it in usai as "I-684 (Harrison, NY)" is also out there.

Otherwise, yeah, it has neither a signed name nor a common name. If putting this in usasf I'd... frankly I'd just put it in as NY984J, since that's as real as any other of the names you pulled up but likely to be recognized by more people (I certainly know it as "984J" but had no idea any of those other names existed!)

984J is a fun one because that was, at one point, marked as "Interstate 984J" on mile markers.

I'd use "NY984J" or "I-684 (Harrison)" for this. It is worth noting that 984J is signed NB as I-684 (no "to"), so you could throw it in usai based on signage. It isn't quite an I-895A/B situation, but it functions as such. I'd include it in the system regardless because it is not only what 684 defaults onto, but also has an intermediate interchange, though I have no preference as to where it ends up.

Offline mapmikey

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2022, 07:14:26 pm »
Is there a reason the I-76 Connector (unposted NJ 76C) between I-76/676 and NJ 168 is not in this system?

Offline Duke87

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2022, 08:38:36 pm »
Is there a reason the I-76 Connector (unposted NJ 76C) between I-76/676 and NJ 168 is not in this system?

What does or doesn't make it into usasf is subjective and arbitrary, especially since no specific criteria for inclusion are in force. The initial drafting back in the CHM days omitted anything under 5 miles long, but this isn't a rule anymore. And while the system name implies a requirement that the road actually be a freeway (i.e. no at-grades, no driveways), nonzero exceptions have been made to even this.

Nonetheless, it is "Select" freeways (no implication the system is comprehensive, just a grab bag of stuff that was deemed noteworthy), and while there is no hard cutoff it is qualitatively true that normally very short ones are not included. So that would be the most reasony reason why NJ 76C isn't in there, and is the same reason why the two NY examples discussed just above aren't already.

Offline the_spui_ninja

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2022, 12:46:47 pm »
CO 6th Avenue (Denver)
CO Academy Boulevard (Colorado Springs)
...
ND 810 (Bismarck Expressway)
Since this popped up again, should I add any of these? Academy Blvd has already been in and out of the HB and has at-grade intersections at CO 115 and I-25. 6th Ave would be only about a 1/4 mile long extension of the US 6 freeway, and the non I-194 portion of ND 810 is only about a mile or so long (it would help if ND signed both routes, but whatever).
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Offline Duke87

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2022, 08:37:10 pm »
I wouldn't for any of those. The intersections kill Academy, and the other two are insufficiently significant IMO - both very short, neither fills a gap in the network.

Offline cl94

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2022, 09:42:58 pm »
I'd put Nicolls Road or William Floyd Parkway (both NY) in before Academy Blvd. Both of those at least have multiple full grade separations, with Nicolls having close to 5 miles of uninterrupted freeway in the middle. Of course, at least one of those would have been in the system if other things were built, but that gets into fictional territory.

Offline the_spui_ninja

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2022, 01:57:53 pm »
I wouldn't for any of those. The intersections kill Academy, and the other two are insufficiently significant IMO - both very short, neither fills a gap in the network.
Cool, that's what I was leaning towards. I think ND 810 is more borderline, since the Bismarck Expressway as a whole is a major route, but I won't be heartbroken if it's left out.
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Offline cl94

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2022, 02:40:48 pm »
I think ND 810 is more borderline, since the Bismarck Expressway as a whole is a major route, but I won't be heartbroken if it's left out.

Freeway portion of the Bismarck Expressway is 2.2 miles with an intermediate interchange. I don't have a horse in this race, but it's definitely more of a "hmmm..." than the others. It comes a mile short of ND 1804, which does have a point at 810, so there is almost a graph connection.

Offline mjcordone

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Re: freeways missing from usasf
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2022, 08:45:37 pm »
In my opinion, the two Arizona roads mentioned at the start of this thread (Northern Parkway and Fain Road) should be included, but for different reasons. Fain Road, a freeway around the east side of the Prescott area, is actually AZ State Route 89A Spur. Northern Parkway, an east-west freeway through the west side of the Phoenix area, is being extended to AZ 101 and will probably eventually become a state route.