Author Topic: itass: Italy Strada Statale  (Read 51280 times)

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Offline the_spui_ninja

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #135 on: November 16, 2021, 04:42:42 pm »
(What's the difference between Var and not? Anything related to this SS 27 -> SR 27 signage change?)
My only authority on this is when I lived in Italy for a couple months back in 2019, but the SS -> SR change signifies a change from a national highway to a regional highway (i.e. who maintains it... I think. In the given case SS27 would be maintained by ANAS while SR27 would be maintained by whoever in Aosta is in charge of that).
The "Var" suffix I don't really understand at all; I went on a run one day from Firenze to Ellera to clinch SS67VarFal (yes I've clinched highways by running) and SS67 just turns into SS67Var (see here) then turns back again on the other side of Ellera. My only thought is that the main road in Ellera used to be part of SS67, then they built SS67Var and decommissioned the bit of SS67 in Ellera without any renumbering. It looks like the same thing with SS27, since there's a road through Cré that looks like it used to be SS27.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 04:45:17 pm by the_spui_ninja »
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Offline si404

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #136 on: November 18, 2021, 07:24:31 am »
My only thought is that the main road in Ellera used to be part of SS67, then they built SS67Var and decommissioned the bit of SS67 in Ellera without any renumbering. It looks like the same thing with SS27, since there's a road through Cré that looks like it used to be SS27.
That's exactly what it is. It's building a bannered bypass, amd keeping the bannered route bannered rather than making it vanilla when the bypassed vanilla road is renumbered (normally not long after the bypass opens - basically as soon as they transfer maintenance).

It seems to be a get around for kilometre posts changes when a new alignment happens is to treat the new alignment as a different road and so the mileage markers don't change on the vanilla route.

Offline yakra

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2021, 08:43:08 am »
And here's our km post. (Somehow I missed the Variante on the sign earlier.) OK, got it!
Sri Syadasti Syadavaktavya Syadasti Syannasti Syadasti Cavaktavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavatavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavaktavyasca

Offline Spinoza

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2021, 12:02:53 pm »
Unrelated to the split -- looks like there's nothing wrong with this; it's just uniquely weird:
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=ita.ss027var&lat=45.771953&lon=7.305458&zoom=17
This route looks like it's unbannered SS27 (Variney), as opposed to a Variante without an Abbrev.
That makes it SS27Var, which ends at... SS27Var. A Variante. This is a normal waypoint label, as it's standard to leave off Abbrevs from labels unless needed to disambiguate.
Unbannered SS27 picks up again on the other side. Is this similar to how A1 will become A1(M) for a while, or IRL M6 becomes N6?
(What's the difference between Var and not? Anything related to this SS 27 -> SR 27 signage change?)

South of there:
ITA SS27Var ends at T2, but there's no corresponding route in the HB though it's signed down south.
E27 is missing a point here or here or wherever you decide the correct coords are.

A Variante is an upgrade of a road on a different alignment. The "variante" suffix pops up when owners of the original road and the variante are the same entity, typically the State through ANAS.

It goes like this. Road SSxx need to be upgraded on a different alignment; ANAS builds it and the new one becomes SSxxVar. Then several scenarios open:
- it stays like this;
- the original road is transferred to provinces, which may or may not rename it. The SS is always lost, but it can get SP, SR, SPexSS SP_provincecode...
- if the original road is transferred, the variante may or may not get renamed to the original road name. That happened for instance with SS76: the original road was called SS76, when the superstrada was built in the 70s it was transferred to the province and called SP76, while the superstrada got the original SS76 name.

Regarding the example of SS27, it seems that in the website database SS27var is wrong. According to ANAS website, SS27var basically ends at the town of Gignod and ends at the current SS27Var waypoint, while the rest belongs to SS27:

SS27:


SS27var:

Offline yakra

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #139 on: November 18, 2021, 05:54:15 pm »
I think the DB actually has it right.
What's confusing is that for ITA SS27Var, Var is a city abbreviation (for Variney) rather than a banner:

Quote from: itass.csv
itass;ITA;SS27;;Var;Variney;ita.ss027var;
itass;ITA;SS27;Var;Gig;Gignod;ita.ss027vargig;

Notice the 2 vs 1 semicolons before the Var.

SystemRegionRouteBannerAbbrevCityRootAltRouteNames
itassITASS27VarVarineyita.ss027var
itassITASS27VarGigGignodita.ss027vargig
Sri Syadasti Syadavaktavya Syadasti Syannasti Syadasti Cavaktavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavatavyasca Syadasti Syannasti Syadavaktavyasca

Offline Spinoza

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #140 on: November 19, 2021, 03:30:29 am »
Ah, I see, I didn't realize that.


Offline Spinoza

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Re: Italy Strada Statale (itass)
« Reply #141 on: November 19, 2021, 10:04:33 am »
As for ANAS website, it appears it is not updated yet  :pan:

Is it updated now?

If not, do the pdfs per region indicate the routes which were transferred? https://www.stradeanas.it/it/le-strade/rientro-strade

Sorry if it's BS, I just saw a post on another forum with this link.... ;)

Yes, all regions I posted here are updated: Tuscany, Liguria, Molise, Basilicata, Umbria, Calabria, and also Abruzzo, Campania, Latium.
Marche and Puglia are updated but the new roads do not show in the map, only in the dropdown menu.

I contacted ANAS to let them know of the outdated maps.
They answered that they have programmed the maps update - but alas they didn't give me any time frame.

I would like to report that ANAS has finally updated the maps in their website.
I didn't thoroughly check all the roads but it seems they're mostly there.

EDIT:
It seems that *almost* all the regions had their maps updated, with the notable exception of Lombardy...

Lombardy has been updated as well on ANAS Website.

Offline Spinoza

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2021, 07:01:15 am »
I'd like to signal this new State road in Marche:
SS256var from Fabriano to Matelica.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_car&route=43.3442%2C12.9558%3B43.2775%2C12.9876#map=13/43.3074/13.0095

By the way, are you going to add the roads that were transferred back to ANAS from the regions? No pressure, just to have an idea of the timeline

Offline michih

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2021, 08:27:05 am »
By the way, are you going to add the roads that were transferred back to ANAS from the regions?

After speaking with michih, I decided to do the rework (check the existing routes and add the new ones). Just that it will take some time, as I had in the last time little time for TM and the situation doesn't seem to dramatically improve in the next months. But I hope I can do it in a time horizon of about 1 year.

I think 8 out of 20 regions are done now. Not much "off the initial estimation". @panda80 told me back in September that he will be quite busy with life in the next months..... Expect delays....

@si404 dealt with the region split meanwhile. Not sure what's the next step on this. Are you waiting for anything - or just lack of time?

Offline si404

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #144 on: November 28, 2021, 11:29:01 am »
@si404 dealt with the region split meanwhile. Not sure what's the next step on this. Are you waiting for anything - or just lack of time?
I'm rather busy currently, but there's not a huge amount I can do on the region split other than fix errors I already know about. And I believe I did all the route segments aren't right errors.

Offline Spinoza

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #145 on: November 29, 2021, 04:48:29 am »
By the way, are you going to add the roads that were transferred back to ANAS from the regions?

After speaking with michih, I decided to do the rework (check the existing routes and add the new ones). Just that it will take some time, as I had in the last time little time for TM and the situation doesn't seem to dramatically improve in the next months. But I hope I can do it in a time horizon of about 1 year.

I think 8 out of 20 regions are done now. Not much "off the initial estimation". @panda80 told me back in September that he will be quite busy with life in the next months..... Expect delays....

@si404 dealt with the region split meanwhile. Not sure what's the next step on this. Are you waiting for anything - or just lack of time?

Thanks. No rush, really.

Offline michih

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Re: itass: Italy Strada Statale
« Reply #146 on: January 13, 2022, 12:08:18 pm »
We currently think about a seamless way for splitting a region into multiple regions behind the scenes. It seems that we might have a solution without forcing users to update their list files. However, it will still take time to implement it. Just stay tuned :)

@Si404, what do you generally think about a split into regions for future SR systems?

If we would agree on splitting, would we do it before or after the rework and/or activation of itass? I mean, we could also activate itass by regions.... smaller iterations, starting with regions where the transfer back to ANAS already happened etc.
If there's going to do a split, the rework and review of itass is the time to do it.
Bump on this - do we want to split?

I've drafted split routes for the other systems, and am happy to do itass if we decide to split.