Author Topic: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions  (Read 2234 times)

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Online Markkos1992

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MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:49:04 am »
1.  5 should be 4B.  4 could be 4A.

2.  8 should be 7.  (also affects US 50)

3.  A point is needed for this interchange (Exit 21).  According to Wikipedia, it was opened in 2017.

Side note:  For IL 3,  I think that I-55(2C) should be I-55(3).  Looking at the I-55 and US 40 labels here, this seems a lot more complicated than it should be in theory.  Maybe go 3A for I-55, and then I-55(3A) for US 40 and IL 3.  Being on this AZ Trip, I do not have tons of times to ruminate on this at the moment.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 09:11:04 am by Markkos1992 »

Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 09:02:20 pm »
1.  5 should be 4B.  4 could be 4A.

That changed from 5 to 4B sometime between Oct '13 & July '15.  Same time frame with the 4 -> 4A as well.

Online Markkos1992

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MO: I-64/US 40 Exit Revision(s)
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 10:23:28 pm »
It looks like 28C should be 28B

Also what would be the best solution for FortyDr?  Maybe just stick with 40Dr?

I also saw something on the I-64 in MO Wikipedia about Exit 38B, but I am unsure how to handle it and if we should be handling that now.

Offline Highway63

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Re: MO: I-64/US 40 Exit Revision(s)
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 11:19:00 pm »
Here's what it looks like on GMSV:

WB 40B I-44; 40A Stadium/9th; 39 Market/21st; 38B Market 3000 West; 38A Forest Park; no 37

EB 37A Market/Bernard; 37B Grand; 38A Jefferson; 38B Chestnut/20th; 39A 14th; 39B Stadium/11th; 40 6th.

WB 38B is actually west of EB 38A, and I had to make the latter a 38C to separate the points. That one I'm inclined to keep, even though there is no 38C in the field, just so I don't have to merge those points.

So, here's what I am thinking:

What I have labeled as 38D should be turned into 39A. What I have labeled as two discrete points of 39C and 40A should be combined into "40" centered at 8th Street, splitting the difference between the exits to 9th (WB #40A) and 6th (EB #40). Then, 40C should be turned into 40B, which is what's seen on the Poplar Street Bridge exiting to I-44 and there is no EB companion.

That would eliminate non-existent letter suffixes except for 38C, for reasons described above. Unless I call it "I-64(38A_EB)"? Bleah.

Offline Highway63

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Re: IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 11:50:38 pm »
I-64: Changing 4->4A, 5->4B, 8->7. Adding 21 (Rieder Road).

US 50: Changing I-64( 8 )->I-64(7).

I-55/64/US 40: Keep the 1A/1B designations even though it's signed as 1 in both directions, because of the large space between the WB and EB exit points. Change 2->2A (Eads Bridge/3rd St). NEW point labeled 2C (signed as MLK Bridge) to the WB exit/EB entrance point of that. Current location labeled 2C on I-55/US 40/IL 3, the new I-64/70 junction, needs to become 3, as you say. (Marked as 3 on I-64 already.) Current location labeled 3 on I-55/US 40 becomes 3C.

The latter set might break/move a few people's points, but I think that's unavoidable.

Offline yakra

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Re: IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2021, 11:19:06 am »
Apologies in advance...
Jim asked if I could process Highway63's .zip file and maybe come up with a list of users with broken .lists, as done with the Massachusetts exit renumberings.
Taking a look at the changes, I'm gonna offer my copper two-cent piece.

I-55 et al:
I-55/64/US 40: ... Change 2->2A (Eads Bridge/3rd St). NEW point labeled 2C (signed as MLK Bridge) to the WB exit/EB entrance point of that. Current location labeled 2C on I-55/US 40/IL 3, the new I-64/70 junction, needs to become 3, as you say. (Marked as 3 on I-64 already.) Current location labeled 3 on I-55/US 40 becomes 3C.

The latter set might break/move a few people's points, but I think that's unavoidable.
I think a better solution would be to not add a new point for 2C, go 1PPI, and consider it part of existing Exit 2 on Where the centerlines would cross if it were an at-grade intersection with the same shape grounds.
2 could stay 2, as 2A/B/C in one interchange.
This would free up 2C to become an AltLabel, and avoid breaking 16 .list files at this interstate-interstate junction.
Per that same rule, we can optionally keep the A, so 3A label can become the new label for the existing 2C, allowing 3 to be an AltLabel for 3C.
This would avoid breaking any .list files.
Code: [Select]
2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.628874&lon=-90.160203
3A +2C http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.633198&lon=-90.144153
3C +3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.634171&lon=-90.140462

IL3:
This looks kinda awkward, because the interchange layout is kinda awkward. Looks like SB does take the obvious right-turn ramp, though northbound gets more convoluted as there's no direct ramp.
IMO a better visual solution is to "cut the diagonal" as I like to term it, of the couplet, and put a point here, or even more precisely, maybe here? What to call it, maybe StCAve_S?
This would break the graph connection (& thus concurrency) at I-70 et al but would still leave one one point over at Exit 2 for surfing between intersecting/connected routes, or for Jim's students to do algorithms.

64/40:
Don't forget to change 28C -> 28B on I-64 itself. :)
FortyDr -> ForDr

Downtown / Downtown West: Reconstruction, renumbering? Yowch, what a mess!
38A looks appropriate.
That next point that peels off just after the Ewing overpass and touches down at Market & Garrison... Looks like its exit number has been removed but it's still open? Weird. Maybe not for long? 38B is not in use; if it's needed elsewhere it could become MarSt or eventually *MarSt?
38C looks like an appropriate label given that 38A is already used a couple points west. Probably should still be centered on Jefferson though.
22nd St: Moved from the demolished connector (something MoDOT originally had bigger plans for?). The new coordinates make sense. It's gone through some different exit numbers, switching from 39A to plain 39 between Oct 2011 & and May 2013, then to 38B between May & Aug 2021. I assume 38B is not a contractor error, and is the correct new 38B, along with removing the signage at the other exit farther west. 38D should still be kept as an AltLabel.
14th St: 39B -> 39A +39B
39B: Probably just as well calling 11th St a 1PPI along with Exit 40 (like you're already doing), not giving it its own separate point, and allowing 39B to stay in use as an AltLabel for 39A.
40: I can get behind collapsing the 2 points into one here. Just remember to include both 39C and 40A as AltLabels to avoid breaking .lists.
40C -> 40B makes sense.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 11:23:51 am by yakra »
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Online Markkos1992

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2021, 02:35:22 pm »
I merged the topics since yakra's latest post covered both IL and MO.

Offline Highway63

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Re: IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2021, 11:08:12 pm »
I-55 et al:
I think a better solution would be to not add a new point for 2C, go 1PPI, and consider it part of existing Exit 2 on Where the centerlines would cross if it were an at-grade intersection with the same shape grounds.
2 could stay 2, as 2A/B/C in one interchange.
This would free up 2C to become an AltLabel, and avoid breaking 16 .list files at this interstate-interstate junction.
Per that same rule, we can optionally keep the A, so 3A label can become the new label for the existing 2C, allowing 3 to be an AltLabel for 3C.
This would avoid breaking any .list files.
Code: [Select]
2 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.628874&lon=-90.160203
3A +2C http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.633198&lon=-90.144153
3C +3 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.634171&lon=-90.140462
I’m going to be on the losing end of all of these, aren’t I?
I think the points SHOULD be broken to get the present list more in sync with the exits. It’s not perfect (see the retention of a split 1A/1B), but it would get closer. I do realize that 16 lists is a substantial number to break, though. Your solution does preserve lists, and if that's a tier-1 goal in this situation, I guess it'll have to be implemented over my objections.

Quote
IL3:
This looks kinda awkward, because the interchange layout is kinda awkward. Looks like SB does take the obvious right-turn ramp, though northbound gets more convoluted as there's no direct ramp.
IMO a better visual solution is to "cut the diagonal" as I like to term it, of the couplet, and put a point here, or even more precisely, maybe here? What to call it, maybe StCAve_S?
This would break the graph connection (& thus concurrency) at I-70 et al but would still leave one one point over at Exit 2 for surfing between intersecting/connected routes, or for Jim's students to do algorithms.
Yeah, it's ugly. We can’t get around the fact that SB 3 and NB3 have vastly different routes. I like the idea of the break at StCAve_S instead of using the I-55(3) point.

Quote
64/40:
Don't forget to change 28C -> 28B on I-64 itself. :)
FortyDr -> ForDr
Right.
Quote
Downtown / Downtown West: Reconstruction, renumbering? Yowch, what a mess!
38A looks appropriate.
That next point that peels off just after the Ewing overpass and touches down at Market & Garrison... Looks like its exit number has been removed but it's still open? Weird. Maybe not for long? 38B is not in use; if it's needed elsewhere it could become MarSt or eventually *MarSt?
38C looks like an appropriate label given that 38A is already used a couple points west. Probably should still be centered on Jefferson though.
22nd St: Moved from the demolished connector (something MoDOT originally had bigger plans for?). The new coordinates make sense. It's gone through some different exit numbers, switching from 39A to plain 39 between Oct 2011 & and May 2013, then to 38B between May & Aug 2021. I assume 38B is not a contractor error, and is the correct new 38B, along with removing the signage at the other exit farther west. 38D should still be kept as an AltLabel.
14th St: 39B -> 39A +39B
39B: Probably just as well calling 11th St a 1PPI along with Exit 40 (like you're already doing), not giving it its own separate point, and allowing 39B to stay in use as an AltLabel for 39A.
40: I can get behind collapsing the 2 points into one here. Just remember to include both 39C and 40A as AltLabels to avoid breaking .lists.
40C -> 40B makes sense.
38C: Re-relocated to center on Jefferson, although I disagree.
I’ll retain the various alt labels, although I disagree.

I really wish I could do a giant “flush” of old names. Not all the ones I’ve changed to exits, but actual reroutes and corrections. I have alt labels up the wazoo in Peoria and keep getting notes about changing IL 116’s north end that would break a years-old deprecated label. Retaining all these on I-64 seems like it could create future issues.

After I post this I'll redo the appropriate files and send updated versions. Then you can check that they match what you want.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 11:26:26 pm by Highway63 »

Online Markkos1992

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2021, 09:47:16 am »
I am linking to the relevant IL 116 thread here for context (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=4518.0).


Offline yakra

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2021, 03:14:10 pm »
Thanks for making all those changes.
I've committed the vast majority, making a couple minor changes in the process:
il.il003: re-added +I-55(2C) as an AltLabel to StCAve_S to avoid breaking .lists.
il.us040: removed new +0 AltLabel, assuming it's just a copy-paste-o from the I-64 file.

The BVB-related changes are not commited. I'll save it in a git stash, and it'll be mostly ready to go when the time comes.

This leaves us with 64/40 in downtown STL.
Heading west from the river...
40B +40C looks good.
US40 has I-64(40) +I-64(39C) +I-64(40A). Looks good. I-64 just has plain 40, no AltLabels. I've changed my local copy to 40 +39C +40A, to avoid breaking .lists here.
39A +39B looks good.
22nd St: This was Exit 39 for 8 years or so, but is now signed as 38B.  Existing 38B is not in use; looks like it's unnumbered now... to be closed soon?
I could see doing...
38A, *MarSt (or MarSt, still open?), 38C, 38B
or
38A 38B (*38B?) 38C 38D
like exists now. A bit odd, this one. Discuss...

I really wish I could do a giant “flush” of old names. Not all the ones I’ve changed to exits, but actual reroutes and corrections. I have alt labels up the wazoo in Peoria
Flushing out unused alt labels could probably be done via a shell script. Let me know if you're interested.
(Edit to clarify: This would remove unused alts from the .wpt files themselves, not remove anything undesired from .lists.)
In-use ones should still be kept until no longer needed of course, to avoid breaking .list files.

and keep getting notes about changing IL 116’s north end that would break a years-old deprecated label.
Yeah, that's where AltLabels get cumbersome, where an old label still in use at an existing location begs to be moved because its designation is now correct elsewhere. I have some sympathy for the US34/US34Byp situation, though in cases like that it's probably best to bite the bullet and break a .list when it can't be avoided.

Massachusetts was this problem on a grand scale. :(

Retaining all these on I-64 seems like it could create future issues.
Only if the deprecated labels were needed in a new location, begging for .lists to be broken. If this were to happen, it'd have to be dealt with then, whether the original point a label's being moved from is hidden or visible.
So to that end, it's not really creating issues in the future, but avoiding issues (due to needlessly breaking .lists) now.
Plus, AltLabels (at least, ones not at a route's end) gradually fade out of use as people extend their travels and edit their .list lines. Over time, there will be fewer & fewer .lists to eventually break.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 05:22:21 pm by yakra »
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Offline yakra

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2021, 02:13:04 pm »
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5171 includes the Bella Vista Bypass and most of the STL changes.
Everything but the I-64 / US40 changes downtown are included, while we continue to sort things out.

I-49: I removed the +0 AltLabel, as it's not needed for a freshly-added waypoint.
MO90: Committed as submitted. GooHolRd is now no longer needed for shaping, and many of the hidden points could be converted to visible or deleted.

Highway63, how do the changes look?
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Offline Highway63

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 01:46:15 pm »
Bella Vista bypass is good.

What more needs looked at on I-64/US40? I thought I had a workable solution in what I sent. Is it the stuff two posts up?

Online Markkos1992

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2021, 12:50:11 pm »
I have no further comments in regard to IL.  I am pretty sure that we are 100% good on that end.

I did find the following on I-64/US 40 in MO beyond the discussion going on in relation to the 38 points:

1.  32 should be 31B.  31 could be 31A.
2.  33D should be 33C.


Offline Highway63

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2021, 11:21:04 pm »
1.  32 should be 31B.  31 could be 31A.

I know what happened here. The names are in relation to the I-64/I-170 interchange before the rebuild of I-64 in 2008. So yeah, 31 (I-170) should be 31A, and Hanley 31B.

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Re: MO/IL: I-64 Exit Revisions
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2021, 02:27:41 pm »
I have no further comments in regard to IL.  I am pretty sure that we are 100% good on that end.

I did find the following on I-64/US 40 in MO beyond the discussion going on in relation to the 38 points:

1.  32 should be 31B.  31 could be 31A.
2.  33D should be 33C.

These revisions were done via (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5318).  I left out the Downtown St. Louis stuff because I had deferred that to yakra, and we had not made a consensus on it.

I may relook at it later since I do have the file now.