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Other Discussion / Re: Suggestion: create Oklahoma Turnpikes system (usaokt)
« Last post by Duke87 on Yesterday at 10:38:28 pm »
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Muskogee Turnpike, 53.1 miles in length, connecting Webbers Falls at I-40 with Tulsa.
OK351 is 55.3 mi after accounting for $CHMFUDGE. Too Long.
How about ending at the beginning of OK165, where the free segment and unnumbered exits begin?

Worth noting that old signage clearly showed the Muskogee Turnpike ending here (and beginning again at the southern OK 165 interchange), but new signage has scrapped having a Muskogee Turnpike shield in favor of simply signing OK 351. For the quite logical reason of having a single shield to follow the whole way.

I think it's pretty unambiguous that this is where the Muskogee Turnpike begins and ends. It leaves us 0.8 miles short of the official figure but, well, fudge factors are imperfect.

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FWIW, OSM labels "Muskogee Turnpike" this far south, ending at the US62 interchange, resuming south of OK165.
Why here?

Because OSM is just as much [citation needed] as Wikipedia is. ;)

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Gilcrease Expressway

Okay yeah this is hairy. Does seem to point towards a future where a single continuous road with this name will have an OTA-portion and a non-OTA portion... maybe, sorta, eventually. The theoretical NW portion would be on Osage Nation land, so thus may or may not ever get built and if it is may or may not be built to freeway standards.

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This fact puts me just over the edge into no longer favoring usaokt.

Honestly, I can see why, and I'm not about to push back too hard against this.

That danged Chickasaw Turnpike though... it's worth including and there's not a clean alternative way of doing so.

One possible solution might be to give it the Soldiers Field Road treatment and map only the freeway portion in usasf. This would be as suboptimal here as it is there, but better than nothing.
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In-progress Highway Systems & Work / Re: jpne: Japan Expressways
« Last post by nezinscot on Yesterday at 06:20:02 pm »
E8
a) Add exits 14-1, 23-1, and 40-1.

E9
a) I would add (KJE) - for Kyoto Jukan Expressway - to the waypoint names for exits 1 thru 17. Most of these numbers are also used on the sections of E9 that are part of the San-In Expressway.

E9Ham
a) Nob is not an exit. It goes to a rest area.

E9Iwa
a) Ota could be named P27.
b) N9_E could be named N9_Iwa (from Iwami IC).
c) P43 could be named N9_Fuk (from Fukube IC).

E9Kus
a) N9 could be named N9_Tou (from Touta IC).

E9Mas
a) N9 could be named N9_Suk (from Suko IC).

E9Mat
a) Add exit 10-1.

E9Hig, E9Kam, E9Nag, E9Oda, E9Sam, E9Tot, E9Yun
-- No changes

E11
a) Add exit 3-1(Tak)

E14
a) Waypoint E51 should be 7-1.
b) I think waypoint 9 should be 8a and 9a should be 9.  I think the exit from current waypoint 9 is the northbound exit piece of waypoint 8.
c) Add exit 18-1.

E14Kis - new branch
a) A short branch of E14 starting at waypoint 17 with three waypoints 17, 17-1, and N16. Kis is from the road name Kisarazu South Branch Line.

E16
-- No changes

E16Nam
a) The KanZoo exit only goes to the Nature Park parking lot. It does not connect to other roads.

E17
a) Add exits 3-1 and 7-1.

E18
a) Add exit 14-1.

E19
a) Add exits 6-1(Nag), 24-1(Cen) and 25-1(Cen).

E20
a) Add exits 3-2, 9-1 and 15-1.
b) Exit 5 has two components that the expressway wiki page and OSM label as exits 5-1 and 5-2. 5-1 is a westbound exit onto P16. 5-2 is the current waypoint 5.

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In-progress Highway Systems & Work / Re: jpne: Japan Expressways
« Last post by si404 on Yesterday at 04:11:55 pm »
E2Kim - datacheck LABEL_SELFREF
Waypoint E2 should be 2

E2Kur - datacheck LABEL_SELFREF
Waypoint E2 should be 16
No, these are fine. I'll just have to declare the errors as false positives.
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How should the changes made to E1, E2, E3, etc. that also affect AH1 be handled?
I've gone and implemented those changes in AH1. A review of that route would be useful, allowing it to also be activated.
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In-progress Highway Systems & Work / Re: jpne: Japan Expressways
« Last post by nezinscot on Yesterday at 03:37:29 pm »
E2Kim - datacheck LABEL_SELFREF
Waypoint E2 should be 2

E2Kur - datacheck LABEL_SELFREF
Waypoint E2 should be 16

E3 - concurrency check
E3 does not show a concurrency with AH1 between waypoints 4-1 and 5.

How should the changes made to E1, E2, E3, etc. that also affect AH1 be handled?

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In-progress Highway Systems & Work / Re: jpne: Japan Expressways
« Last post by nezinscot on Yesterday at 02:29:52 pm »
Thanks for letting me know the rule for naming the end exits when in sequence.

I just found this sign from 2020 GSV (not present in 2018).  It indicates that the Yamaguchi-Ude road south of Kagawa IC is E2.
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0551082,131.3501619,3a,67.6y,77.26h,98.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAhh1jvp1646kV5BnQRs3_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The best written reference I have found so far is the Sanyo Expressway wiki page.  E2 follows the the Sanyo Expressway for most of its length.  The page says that E2 follows the two roads, connecting the Fukida-Yamaguchi Line of the Sanyo/E2 with the Ube-Shimonoseki Line of the Sanyo/E2.

The Ube JCT wiki page says that the Yamaguchi-Ude road is E2 when it leaves the junction.  The Yamaguchi Minami IC wiki page says that the Ogoori Road is E2 when it leaves the IC.  The wiki pages for the two roads say they are part of E2.  Of course, all this only proves that wikipedia is internally consistent about the roads.
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Updates to Highway Data / Re: WI: I-41/I-43/I-94/I-894 Interchange
« Last post by yakra on Yesterday at 02:16:59 pm »
Though I would say that GA is outmultiplexing WI.
And Georgia is outmultiplexing everything else. Including Georgia! ;D
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Other Discussion / Re: Suggestion: create Oklahoma Turnpikes system (usaokt)
« Last post by yakra on Yesterday at 02:03:40 pm »
Easy list to be found here, though it doesn't call out the two spurs independently
https://www.pikepass.com/about/FAQs.aspx
Click on 5. How many turnpikes are on the turnpike system?
This lists the 2 spurs, and also an additional pike not on the Toll Rates list: the Gilcrease Expressway. So that's OTA jurisdiction, is it? Righto.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/other/5%20Year%20Capital%20Plan.pdf has 19 occurrences of "Gilcrease".

Some of the descriptions & mileages need a little unraveling...

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Turner Turnpike, 86.0 miles in length, connecting Oklahoma City with Tulsa.
If I divide WPTedit's 87.80 mi at (@ 221) by the CHM fudge factor of 1.02112, I get 85.98 mi. OK, sounds like 86.0 to me! Moving on...
221 looks like the right endpoint per the map linked above. It's also where OSM shows the changeover to Skelly Bypass.

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Will Rogers Turnpike, 88.5 miles in length, extends from Tulsa to the Oklahoma-Missouri state line.
Within range of the fudge factor. Looks good.
Oddly, this section of I-44 has ONE EXIT not fitting the I-44 mileposts for whatever reason (Thanks, Oklahoma), labeled 35(WRT).
So I guess that would mean WillRogTpk having one exit 35, with everything else switching to 248(44) format. ::)
This route passes through craIG county some 35-36 mi away. Just sayin'.

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H.E. Bailey Turnpike, 86.4 miles in length on main route, extending from Oklahoma City just north of the Texas state line, and 8.2 miles on a spur connecting the main route to S.H.9.
Emphasis on just north of. The map shows a transition to free I-44 at Exit 5, where US 277 & 281 leave the Interstate.
A south end here gives us 102.4 mi in the HB. Subtract out the 16 mi for the free Pioneer Expy, exits 30 to 46, and we get 86.4 mi. Woot!

nor does it call out the fact that three of those turnpikes each exist in two separate sections.
OK, I see what you mean now. Here's one of them.

Here's where I start to have misgivings about usaokt. There's already a lot of duplication of active routes. Having multiple segments of a single named turnpike, both already concurrent with the same "parent" active route, adds another later to it. Ugly, clutter. And some users might find it confusing.

Indian Nation Turnpike, 105.2 miles in length, connects Henryetta at I-40 to U.S. 70 near Hugo.
Within range of the fudge factor. Looks good.

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Muskogee Turnpike, 53.1 miles in length, connecting Webbers Falls at I-40 with Tulsa.
OK351 is 55.3 mi after accounting for $CHMFUDGE. Too Long.
How about ending at the beginning of OK165, where the free segment and unnumbered exits begin?
56.43 - 4.1 mi (per wptedit) = 52.3. Too short.
How about the US62 interchange? 56.43 - π mi (per wptedit) for 53.29? That's within $CHMFUDGE.
FWIW, OSM labels "Muskogee Turnpike" this far south, ending at the US62 interchange, resuming south of OK165.
Why here?
Worth noting that before MusTpk became an AltRouteName for OK351, it was all in the HB as one continuous route. Is it one route? Checking Wiki[citation needed]pedia, the implication looks like one continuous route, with an OK165 overlap.
This is starting to look like enough of an indeterminus...

Here again we have the multiple-segments-on-the-same-active-route mess, now compounded by where exactly it should be split, or if we even should at all.

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Cimarron Turnpike, 59.2 miles in length on main route, extending from I-35/ U.S. 64 east of Enid to Tulsa,
within $CHMFUDGE
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and 8.5 miles on a spur connecting the main route with Stillwater and Oklahoma State University.
Maybe OTA includes more of the length of the ramps that don't get reflected in the HB, which shows 7.55 mi.

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John Kilpatrick Turnpike, 25.3 miles in length, extending from the Oklahoma City interchange of the Turner Turnpike and I-35 to I-40 between Mustang and Sara Road.
Within $CHMFUDGE of the old route before the extension.
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In January 2020 the JKT Extension, 5 miles, between I-40 and State Highway 152/Airport Road opened.
C'mon guys. If you're gonna update your page, update your page. :P

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Cherokee Turnpike, 32.8 miles in length, extends eastward from U.S. 412 at Locust Grove to U.S. 412 west of West Siloam Springs.
32.70 mi per wptedit. OK sure.

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Creek Turnpike, 34.4 miles in length, connecting the Turner Turnpike to the Will Rogers Turnpike.
Google shows 33.8 mi for OK364, if I include the ramp at the SW end.
This would suggest there's no mileage subtracted out for the free US64/169 concurrency.
Though signage at Memorial points only west (maybe call it an aid to help drivers realize this segment is free?), this should at least put us back in "implied concurrency" territory. Just one Creek Turnpike segment.

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Chickasaw Turnpike, 13.3 miles in length, extends southward from S.H. 3 near Ada to S.H. 7 immediately west of Sulphur.
They mean S.H. 1 near Ada. Another "is it updated or not?" entry -- it originally ended at S.H. 7 immediately west of Sulphur; later, the section W of US177 was transferred to OK7SprSul, and is no longer signed as Chickasaw Turnpike. 13.3 mi matches the truncation to US177. Or maybe it's just another "minus the free bits" figure...

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Kickapoo Turnpike, 18.5 miles, links I-40 and I-44 (Turner Turnpike) in Eastern Oklahoma County. The northern section of the Kickapoo Turnpike, from I-44/Turner Turnpike to NE 23rd/SH62, is open for travel. The southern section of the Kickapoo Turnpike, from NE 23rd/SH62 to I-40, will open in early 2021.
They mean US62. Mileage within $CHMFUDGE for entire route, I-40 to I-44.

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Gilcrease Expressway, 5.7 miles, connects L.L. Tisdale to I-44 and completes the Western loop around the Tulsa metro area. Scheduled to open mid 2022.
Not to be confused with Gilcrease Expressway, 8.13 miles, connects L.L. Tisdale to I-244 and completes the Northeastern loop around the Tulsa metro area. In the HB since CHM.
5.7 mi gets us a tiny bit more than the SW quadrant from I-44/244 to US64/412 shown under construction in OSM & ESRI, but falls plenty short of it getting us to the Tisdale.
And on that note...
Once the NW quadrant is completed, it will beg for the other 2 segments to be connected. And we don't need another Palisades Interstate Parkway vs. usanyp scenario.
The existing segment is free, and doesn't belong in usaokt.
If usaokt doesn't exist, then the Gilcrease would all clearly belong in usasf, no problem! ;)

This fact puts me just over the edge into no longer favoring usaokt. :(
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Updates to Highway Data / Re: WV: US52/King Coal Hwy cluster****
« Last post by rickmastfan67 on Yesterday at 11:02:05 am »
I'm not sure if this affects anything, but it is worth noting.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11115.msg2608365#msg2608365

Until I have proof signage has changed (meaning signage along WV-65 & WV-44 going to the KCH), I'm not putting the 'main' route onto the KCH.  This is the whole reason I created the separate file for the KCH segment.

WVDOH items have been showing that it's been rerouted since at least 2017.  Yet, no AASHTO submission, or proper signage change in the field yet.

Problem is, that the WVDOT county maps clearly show the 'old' route as CR-252/57 now.  And the map is as-of August '17.
ftp://gis.transportation.wv.gov/GISCountyMaps/MingoSHEET%202WB.pdf
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Updates to Highway Data / Re: WV: US52/King Coal Hwy cluster****
« Last post by Markkos1992 on Yesterday at 10:49:05 am »
I'm not sure if this affects anything, but it is worth noting.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11115.msg2608365#msg2608365
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In-progress Highway Systems & Work / Re: jpne: Japan Expressways
« Last post by si404 on Yesterday at 10:39:31 am »
f) Waypoint 1 could be called SE3.
g) Waypoint 38 could be called HE3.
If there is an exit number that's in the sequence of the rest of the road, I will always use that rather than a road name. I'll use the road name if it's the exit numbering from the other road, or there's no exit number.
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E2 - combine with E2Ube

...

As usual, in GSV I could find no mention of E2 on signs on the two roads.

https://search.w-nexco.co.jp/en/map.php shows E2 using the two roads. Nexco is the company that manages the toll expressways, so they would know where E2 is routed.
Though the entity managing the non-toll roads don't seem to think it's E2. And I think its worse than merely non-signed as E2, but actively not signed: at the western end E2 is only signed on the bit mapped, and not on the Yamaguchi-Ube Road.
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