Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Completed Highway Systems Threads => Topic started by: michih on July 26, 2017, 01:17:18 pm

Title: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on July 26, 2017, 01:17:18 pm
http://tm.teresco.org/hb/index.php?sys=beln

I've finally managed to finish the painful way through Belgian national roads :)
It's an European tier 4 system - which are usually drawn "lightsalmon" on our maps - but it's a quite dense network managed by provinces. It is similar to Dutch nldp or German deul tier 5 systems which are drawn in "yellow". I also use "yellow" for beln now.

It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/782) because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md).

I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.

Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...

I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md)?
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on January 20, 2018, 08:53:10 am
starting at the bottom and working my way up (because I want to punch through the short dull routes to begin with)

N900s:

general - because Belgians are weird on top of terrible at signing roads, where you have A4, etc as labels, you might want to consider E411, etc as they are more consistently signed, especially on side roads. I really don't think it matters, but it's something that's there.

N983 - RueMu -> RouMou
N975 - RueSaiSang is RueFortJaco on all mapping sources; is N98 not N/S rather than E/W?
N971 - RueChe -> RueFal
N937 - PontMarGray is off
N913 - N5_Bie points should be N and S, not W and E
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on January 21, 2018, 12:17:20 pm
800s

N820 - add a point at RueTro to shape the route better
N821 - Mont -> War? (village you are in, rather than far off village)
N833 - RuMar -> RouMar
N859 - Mar -> RueBiz
N865 - add point at RueMou for Cugnon; N816 is north-south
N882 - RueFla -> RuePla
N883 - N81 -> N81_S
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on June 16, 2018, 12:47:42 pm
It was quite hard to figure out which routes are signed (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/782) because signage is often bad in Belgium. A lot of GSV research was required. I've checked all routes which are listed on wegenwiki or wikisara and drafted all routes if I minimum found the number signed once. On the blue signage or on small red/white kilometer posts or mile stones. I've not checked that all routes are signed at both ends but went with OSM/GM (routes are very often not signed at the beginning/end). Some routes are not in HB although they are indicated on OSM and GM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. See readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md).

I've recently read that unsigned routes are sometimes drafted for the HB, e.g. http://tm.teresco.org/forum/index.php?topic=2100.

Is my criteria - "I(!) couldn't find anything on GSV" - too hard? Should I minimum include the listed routes which are clearly indicated on GM and OSM? Should be about 25 more routes...

I've learned more and more about the locations where routes are usually signed. I've planned to check all routes mentioned in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) anytime soon. Should I draft the "likely unsigned" ~25 routes and indicate it in my readme file (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md)?

I think I should add all routes - signed and unsigned.

There are some unsigned Interstates that are included due to being part of the system. Maybe do the same here?

Yes, unsigned E roads are included in countries that don't sign them at all (eg the UK).
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on December 01, 2018, 06:52:57 am
700s

general point - obviously, there's unsigned roads that don't have a point but will when you add them, or have a point that is labelled with a street name, so I've ignored that factor as an issue.

another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?

N700 - surely meets E313?
N719 - GSJ at the railway crossing (MuiStr); KooLaan -> EdwStaStr
N739 - MetSt -> SchStr
N742 - extends to N75?
N748 - heads south of N73?

all other routes fine
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on December 02, 2018, 04:40:29 am
another general point - should E roads get dominance over A roads in labelling as more prominently signed?

I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on December 02, 2018, 07:58:33 am
I know that you think different but I'm with Tim that A always wins.
I don't think different - it was something that occurred to me as I'd see 'A2' labels on a road shown on OSM as E313. I've no real preference either way.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on December 09, 2018, 02:28:55 pm
N742 - extends to N75?

N75 GSV July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0218219,5.7145053,3a,75y,139.92h,64.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swwTErnjKdpbFsm1eovKqJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) shows that the road is closed. It was still opened in November 2010 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.021618,5.7146721,3a,75y,14.9h,55.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdpztCZki-NxAx4cAalHLiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but unsigned. N742 is not signed west of N78 according to GSV from July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0189588,5.7261299,3a,75y,288.88h,78.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDl14dbj7Y6XhBnRqJXof_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on February 06, 2019, 01:01:55 pm
@Si, do you wanna complete the peer-review or should I add the additional routes first?
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on February 06, 2019, 05:10:52 pm
adding would be better.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on March 17, 2019, 03:09:25 pm
done
Title: Belgium: waypoint request for N34 at N34g in Oostende
Post by: dave1693 on March 19, 2019, 12:34:48 am
Another one from the vaults of my 1978 student tour of Europe...

We crossed the English Channel from Oostende to Dover, by a ferry that has since been discontinued. I do remember the ferry dock being near the big train station, and OSM supports this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.23083/2.92411 noting the "Transeuropa Ferries-Terminal" just north of "Station Oostende".

The nearest N route to this is N34, but alas it doesn't have a waypoint nearby. N34 uses a part of Leopold III-laan to go northeast from the Vuurkruisenplein roundabout, but then makes a right angle turn onto Ernest Feysplein (Google Maps shows this a lot better, as does Esri WorldStreetMap) and Leopold III-laan continues as N34g. N34g then turns onto Natienkaai and (if I'm reading Dutch Wikipedia correctly) ends at the train station, by which I imply the turnoff for the main parking lot where Natienskaai makes a right-angle turn.

Of course none of this is signed, but given the way Belgium signs its highways (mostly it doesn't), that's hardly a surprise.

I doubt we actually want to put N34g into the HB (not that I'd mind), but would it be feasible to put a waypoint on N34 at N34g, where Leopold III-laan intersects Ernest Feysplein?
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on March 23, 2019, 05:46:18 am
I've merged the topics since beln system is still in preview.

I've not added N34g route but added 'KapStr' wp to N34. I've noted in the readme.md (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md) file why I've not drafted N34g (note will be added after my next pull request):

Quote
`N34g` should exist (not being signed) according to wegenwiki (length of just 200m) and wikisara but it's not indicated on GSV nor GM and OSM seems to indicate it wrong (not from N34 to the station but from the station to the north)

I've generally added unsigned routes if they are clearly indicated on OSM. They are listed in readme.md.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on September 07, 2019, 04:46:38 am
Is this system ready for review?
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on September 07, 2019, 04:50:27 am
Of course! I've added the remaining routes last March.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on September 07, 2019, 04:58:07 am
Of course! I've added the remaining routes last March.
Thought so. Let that one slip. Shouldn't be too difficult as looking at my previous look at the 700s, 800s and 900s, there was very few issues (though that makes it tedious)!
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on September 07, 2019, 05:25:17 am
(though that makes it tedious)!

I think that peer-reviews are generally less interesting than drafting new systems. That's why I always tried to draft and review systems parallel or alternating. Now we have a bunch of preview systems and only reviews are on the agenda................
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 17, 2019, 08:54:20 am
As a break from a place more-French-than-France, I'll return to the place more-French-fries-than-France. ;)

I'm assuming you have got all of the routes right, and OSM has road numbers where there shouldn't be (eg N617 in central Liege).

N1 (Antwerpen):
 - N11 point merged with A1 exit 5 point (one point per interchange)?
 - between N129 and R10 route doesn't currently exist: split

N1 (Vilvoorde):
 - N1a_Sta -> N1a
 - add a point or two in Buda for indirect access to R0?

N1a, N1b: both fine

N1c
 - HofEik -> HofEikLaan

N2 (Zaventem):
 - AveComGem -> AveCom or GemLaan
 - R23_W -> R23

N2 (Diest):
 - R23_E -> R23
 - merge N29 and A2(24)? ditto N739 and A13?
 - R26_W -> N10/R26?
 - R71_W -> R71
 - R70_W -> R70
you've chopped up routes, but continued to treat them as one big route. Either put them back together, or drop superfluous directional disambiguation.

N2 (Bilzen):
 - R70_E -> R70
 - R71_E -> R71

N2c: fine

N2d:
 - VanLaan -> DokVanLaan

N3 (Tervuren):
 - is KorLaan the right label (this area by the is a mess!)?
 - is KerStr the right label?
 - R23_W -> R23

N3 (Liege):
 - R23_E -> R23
 - N671 off (and as theres no direct connection between two routes, is it the right place?)
 - N90 and RueJup off

N3e and N3i fine

N3g:
 - called N603 on OSM
 - GSJ in the middle there?

N4:
 - point for Rue du Trone?
 - MaaLaan -> AveMae (Brussels is de facto Francophonic, even if de jure bilingual)
 - EurPirLaan -> AveEurPir (ditto)
 - TerWeg -> ChaTer (ditto)
 - Avi -> RueTom
 - Flg -> CheRen? Fla?
 - Fls -> RouStr
 - Man -> RueMan
 - RueAss -> RueWac
 - RueDec -> Rue26Dec
 - RueBas -> RouBas_N? RouBas_S
 - BEL/LUX_Mar -> N23 (doesn't matter that it's the Luxembourgish one and the N4 is the border)
 - BEL/LUX_Arl -> BEL/LUX
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 18, 2019, 10:08:11 am
N5 (Waterloo):
 - add point for AveReiAst in Waterloo (leads to R0 exit 28)

N5 (Phillippeville):
 - RueMar off
 - is the autoroute section at the bottom end actually N5?
 - N5_CouN -> N5_Cou (sections don't actually meet back up)

N5 (Couvin):
 - see autoroute comment about Phillippeville section
 - N5_N -> N5 (sections don't actually meet up, and presuming that autoroute is N5)

N6 (Soignies):
 - FraKalLaan -> French name (Brussels de facto Francophonic)
 - R50_N -> R50

N6 (Mons):
 - R50_S -> R50
 - N546 -> R5/N546

N7 (Tournai):
 - BEL/FRA -> FRA/BEL, or flip route and have route direction matching radial pattern of roads, rather than default N->S and W->E grid pattern (either is fine)
 - R52_W -> R52

N7 (Ath):
 - R52_E -> R52
 - ChaTou -> ChaTou_E
 - ChaBru -> ChaBru_W

N8 (Koksijde): fine

N8 (Menen):
 - R36_W -> R36

N8 (Oudenaard):
 - R36_E -> R36
 - R9 -> R8

N8c: fine

N9 (Oostende):
 - R30 -> R30_E

N9 (Eeklo):
 - R30_E -> R30
 - R4_W -> R4
 - R40_W -> R40

N9 (Aalst):
 - R40_E -> R40
 - R4_E -> R4
 - KerStr -> KerkStr
 - N9k needs to be named something else
 - LouMetLaan -> BoulLouMet (Brussels French-first)
 - R20 -> R20_E
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 19, 2019, 10:53:13 am
N10
 - is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?
 - R16_N -> N14/R16?
 - R16_S -> N108/R16?
 - N19_N -> N19/R25
 - point for GSJ just north of DieStr (also R25)
 - N2 -> N2/R26

N11
 - N1 point should be merged with A1 exit 5 (one point per interchange)

N12
 - N14 -> N14/N158
 - break at R13?
 - add point at KonAlbStr (links to N119/N132 point)

N13: fine

N14
 - N12 -> N12/N153
 - split at R16?
 - add point for Hondiuslaan in Duffel (leads to N1/N1c and A1 exit 8)

N15 and N15a: fine

N16:
 - N403 -> N403/R32
 - N17 and 7(A12) merge?

N16a: fine

N17:
 - add point for Hoogveld?
 - WolStr -> WolfStr

N18:
 - R13/N12 -> R13 if N12 is split
 - add missing R18 and relabel relevant points?
 - move Mar ever-so-slightly to HanStr? (better point name)
 - add points for GSJs either side of canal between N71 and N136

N19:
 - R13/N12 -> R13 if N12 is split
 - add points in Geel that might link to other points?

N19a: fine
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on October 20, 2019, 10:56:47 am
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3240

- is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?

The N routing is clear when there no full ring. When there is a full ring, the routing is not clear - there are two options - and I've split the route.

- R16_N -> N14/R16?
 - R16_S -> N108/R16?
 - N19_N -> N19/R25

I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it. Any objections?

I've already checked all routes N1-N19 and removed N routes in wp labels when there were a R and a N route in the label name.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 20, 2019, 12:06:38 pm
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3240

- is there a reason why this and the N14 run concurrent with the R16, despite the single digit N roads being split when they have to run concurrent with a ring?

The N routing is clear when there no full ring. When there is a full ring, the routing is not clear - there are two options - and I've split the route.

- R16_N -> N14/R16?
 - R16_S -> N108/R16?
 - N19_N -> N19/R25

I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it.
I'm happy with this reasoning.
Quote
I've already checked all routes N1-N19 and removed N routes in wp labels when there were a R and a N route in the label name.
So now I'll highlight cases where there is, rather than questioning why there isn't.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on October 20, 2019, 12:40:59 pm
So now I'll highlight cases where there is, rather than questioning why there isn't.

Response to questions always helps the reviewer.
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 23, 2019, 07:32:29 am
N20:
 - R70/N80 -> R70
 - R72/N79 -> R72_N?

N21:
 - JulBorLaan -> AveJulBor (Brussels Francophonic)

N22:
 - JulBorLaan -> AveJulBor (Brussels Francophonic)

N23 and N24 missing. Do they get added?

N25:
 - ChaWav -> ChaWav_S
 - N4_W -> N4_N
 - A4 -> A4(8)
 - A4_Lou -> A4(8a)

N25a, N26: fine

N27:
 - add point for Rue Raymond Lebleux in Lillois (leads to N25 GSJ)
 - add point for SW corner of Nivelles ring (leads to N28 southern end)

N28:
 - N203a -> A8 (route renumbered recently)
 - Rue Lib -> missing N246?

N29 (Beringen):
 - R26_N -> R26

N29 (Tienen):
 - add point for N572 in Gilly (at the very least that road leads to N90 GSJ)

N30, N30b, N31: fine

N32:
 - R32/N36 -> R32_S

N32b: fine

N33:
 - R34/N32 -> R34

N34:
 - N34f - move to overbridge and either add route or (more likely) rename (also R31)

N34a, N34i, N35 (Diksmuide), N35 (Deinze), N35b, N35c, N35g: fine

N36:
 - R32/N36a -> R32_N
 - add point for GSJ just west of A17

N36a:
 - R32/N36 -> R32

N36d, N36e, N37 (Ieper): fine

N37 (Tielt):
 - R32/N36 -> R32_W
 - N44/N409 - merge with A10 wpt (one point per interchange)?

N37a, N37b, N38, N39, N39a: fine
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 26, 2019, 08:29:22 am
N40 (Philippeville):
 - N53 needs redoing (short concurrency between northern/eastern junction and the other junction which is the one-way system)

N40 (Libramont-Chevigny):
 - N929 is off
 - N95b -> N95d
 - RueRan needs another name
 - RueHas -> N887?

N40a: fine

N41 (Aalst): fine

N41 (Hamme):
 - DorStr -> DorpStr
 - R42 needs moving (also R42)

N42:
 - add point for LeenStr to match N42a

N42a, N42c: fine

N43 (Mouscron):
 - R43_S -> R43

N43 (Deinze):
 - R43_N -> R43

N44:
 - A11 is off
 - N37/N409: see N37

N44a: fine

N45 (Aalst):
 - N28 transition is actually a little to the south (here (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8622499,4.0251502,3a,75y,185.7h,80.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKQ9CgwU60tjvPIU8aIX2RQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)). Vossel is the closest interchange, but there's N45 signs south of there. Up to you.

N45 (Appleterre-Eichem): fine

N46:
 - N42 -> N42/N462
 - N462 -> N462_N

N47: fine

N48 (Tournai), N48 (Brakel), N48b: fine

N49:
 - PasOpdPle -> LipLaan or KnoStr
 - KalDij -> KalDijk

N49a:
 - HalLaan is off

N50 (Brugge):
 - R36_N -> R36

N50 (Dottenijs):
 - R36_S -> R36

N50 (Mons), N50d, N50f, N50g: fine

N51:
 - BouAndBel -> BouAndDel

N52:
 - does this extend north?

N53:
 - see N40

N54 (Erquelinnes): fine

N54 (Fontaine-l'Eveque):
 - R3/N90 -> R3

N55, N55b: fine

N56:
 - RuePriAst -> CheNotDame?
 - N6/N552 -> N6 as doesn't actually meet N552?

N57: fine

N58 (Comines-Warneton):
 - TouStr -> 9
 - N515 -> 8
 - N336 -> 7
 - HouWeg -> 6
 - N531 -> 5

N58 (Mouscron): fine

N59:
 - GirTib -> RueTyb (cross-street beats junction name)
 - GirSou -> RueSou (ditto)

N59b: fine
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on October 27, 2019, 10:40:37 am
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3253

N23 and N24 missing. Do they get added?

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/hwy_data/BEL/beln/README.md

Quote
N23 is not signed according to wegenwiki and not on any map
N24 is not signed according to wegenwiki and only indicated on GM
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: si404 on October 27, 2019, 01:59:03 pm
Quote
N23 is not signed according to wegenwiki and not on any map
err: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/50.84270/4.38703
Title: Re: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen (beln)
Post by: michih on November 16, 2019, 04:02:38 pm
N23 was added.

I thought about keeping belr as tier 4 but moving beln to tier 5. Both are maintained by regions but I think that beln is similar to nldp, deul or frad systems. I think that @yakra suggested the same when we talked about the tier colors. The more I think about it, the more I wanna change it. Any objections?

Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3321
It already was yellow instead of lightsalmon.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 07:00:19 am
N60
 - is that a slip road to A10/E40? Does that need to be a point on both routes? (there definitely was an interchange there, but most demolished)

N60Leu - fine

N60b (what a silliness of the Belgians not to have this as N60)
 - N60_N -> N60/N425?

N60e
 - RuePon -> RuePon_E
 - I presume the N60f on OSM is signed as part of N60e.
 - do we want to add points on N60 and N60e for what OSM marks as N60g? Do we want to add N60g?

N61, N61a, N61b - fine

N62
 - N30 is off OSM
 - N640 is off OSM
 - N693 and shaping point south of it are off OSM

N63
 - N4 -> N4/N86
 - N86 -> N86_E or N86_N

N63c, N63d, N63f, N64, N65 - fine

N66
 - N831 -> N623/N831

N67 - fine

N67a
 - Lan - is this the right name? Presumably Langesthal is the settlement by the dam, hence why all the roads have it.

N68
 - add point for N640? (runs fron Slavelot to Spa racecourse according to OSM)

N69
 - add point for RueRap (leads to N64/N637 junction)?
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 07:32:33 am
N70, N70a, N71 - fine

N71Ham
 - N712_E -> N712 (would need renaming should they ever join the two N71 segments together anyway)

N72, N72a, N73, N73Tes, N73b, N74

N75
 - N730_W -> N730_N

N75a - add route in Genk?

N76
 - DamStr -> DampStr?
 - move MarHabLaan to overpass
 - is that a GSJ just south of N779?
 - add point at Heuvelstraat to correspond with southern N76a end.
 - N76k is off

N76a
 - KlwAre -> KleStr

N76b, N76d - fine

N76h
 - BrugStr -> BrugStr_N

N76k
 - N754a is off

N77
 - BurBijLaan -> N75a?

N78, N78b, N79, N79a - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 01:07:02 pm
N80
 - R62_N is off

N80b - fine

N81
 - is there a GSJ at Differt (north of N883_N)?

N82
 - RueBonLieu is the name of the road just to the east

N83
 - does N83a exist? (RueCha and a point to the west that would need to be added)

N83b - fine

N84
 - add points in Bastogne that correspond to N4 GSJs?

N85
 - add point for N858 that isn't in the browser but probably should be?

N86
 - N623/N831 -> N831
 - ChaOur -> N839?
 - add point for N86f that isn't in the browser but probably should be?

N86b
 - add point for N86f that isn't in the browser but probably should be?

N87
 - Nob -> RueSch?

N87b - fine

N88
 - add point for N890 that isn't in the browser but probably should be?

N88a - fine

N89
 - E411/A4 -> A4 for consistency with other N roads
 - RueSer -> N89c (which would need to be added)?
 - PontFosRou -> RueVes or RueTro
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 02:14:03 pm
N90Bin - fine

N90
 - N570 -> N568b/N570?
 - RouNew -> RueAltSpi
 - delete RueMoi (just an overbridge, and wrong name anyway)
 - N4_N is off OSM
 - RouGouClo -> N942a (and add route to browser)?
 - GraRou -> N644?
 - add points for N683a and N615 (and add those routes to the browser)?
 - WuaiMat -> QuaiMat

N90a
 - RueCoc -> N615/N683? and move to centre of roundabout

N90b, N90z, N91 - fine

N92
 - add point for N966 (or road to it) that isn't in browser and probably should be
 - N947_N is off OSM, and doesn't directly intersect route as mapped in browser
 - PontLus -> N931 (and add that route to browser)?
 - N932 -> N932/N947a (and add that route to browser)?
 - shouldn't N95/N936 be in the centre of the roundabout?

N93
 - ChaNam -> ChaNam_W
 - R24 -> R24/N237?

N94
 - Lav -> RueJar

N95, N95d - fine

N96
 - RueHenBla -> RueHenBles
 - RueFra -> RueFra_N

N97
 - N5 -> N5/N40

N98 - fine

N99
 - LaDis -> ForGer
 - RueGra -> RueHoe
 - Niv -> RueStEloi

N23 (before I forget it as I move on to 3 digit routes) - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 04:51:35 pm
N101
 - add points (and route) for N101b?

N101a, N102 - fine

N103
 - N18_W <-> N18_E

N105 - fine

N106
 - either add R11a or delete JulMor
 - DooStr -> DooStr_S

N107 - fine

N108
 - WavWeg -> WavWeg_N

N109
 - StuBaan -> StuVaa_S

N110, N110a, N111, N112, N113 - fine

N114
 - A12(DijStr) -> DijStr?
 - N180 is off

N115
 - N115b is off

N115a, N115b - fine

N116
 - add points for N116a (and add route)?

N117 - fine

N118
 - are VelStr and NieStr R18?

N119, N120, N121, N122,  - fine

N123
 - is PihlStr R18?

N124, N125, N126, N127, N128 - fine

N129
 - N1_S isn't a junction with N1
 - N1_N -> N1

N130, N131, N132, N133, N134, N135, N136, N137, N138, N139, N140 - fine

N141
 - add point for N156 (or add that route to the A13 junction)?

N142, N144, N146, N148, N150, N151, N152, N153 - fine

N153a
 - Hei -> Hei_S

N154 - fine

N155
 - N1 and N177 are off

N156
 - is there a section in Limburg?

N165, N171, N171Nie, N173, N174, N177, N179, N180, N184 - fine

N186
 - A112_Cam -> CamHusLaan
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on December 31, 2019, 06:05:11 pm
N200, N201 - fine

N202
 - MutLaan -> AveMut (as that road is in Brussels)

N203
 - N203a -> A8

N207, N208 - fine

N209
 - BruStr -> RueBru

N211
 - VilStr -> VliStr

N211b, N212, N218, N221, N222, N223 - fine

N226
 - N3 -> R21/N3

N227, N230, N232, N233, N234 - fine

N237
 - N93 -> R24/N93?
 - RueBru -> N5g?
 - add point (and route) for N237a? At the very least add point as leads to N25
 - AveMas -> N238a?

N238 - fine

N239
 - add point for N243?
 - AveMas -> N238a?

N240, N241 - fine

N243
 - extend north?

N243a, N246, N249, N250, N251, N252, N253, N255, N257, N258 - fine

N260
 - FabWeg -> N211a?
 - BudaBrug -> PontBuda

N261
 - DeFreLaan -> AveDeFre
 - AlsWeg ->ChaAls

N262, N263, N264 - fine

N266
 - FonLaan -> AveFon
 - BaraStr -> RueBara
 - PaeLaan -> BoulPae
 - BriTweLaan -> BoulArmBri

N267
 - DarnStr -> DamStr

N268, N269, N270, N271, N272, N273, N275, N276. N276a, N277, N278, N279, N280, N282, N283 - fine

N285
 - AssWeg -> ChaAsse

N286, N287 - fine

N290
 - LakLaan -> AveLae
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on January 02, 2020, 09:56:05 am
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3491

N82
 - RueBonLieu is the name of the road just to the east

On OSM but GM shows the name for both roads. Keep as-is. There is no sign on the eastern route on GSV.


Please go ahead so that we get Belgium finally done! I need to relax in Romania now...
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on January 02, 2020, 03:09:47 pm
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3493

N92
 - add point for N966 (or road to it) that isn't in browser and probably should be

It's only indicated on OSM. It is the only route you've suggested to add which is not mentioned on wikisara, wegenwiki nor wikipedia. I checked the route on GSV on its entire length. There is no direction sign. No km post. Nothing indicating any road number. But the route is quite scenic and worth to be added! I found a undated road numbering list (https://www.inforoutes.be/pdf/nummeringwegennet.pdf) which does also not have N966. But the list does also contain ? for other routes. I don't trust this source. It's from the website of the national Belgian police. I finally found a news article from October 2019 (https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_24-nouveaux-radars-troncons-sur-les-routes-de-wallonie-d-ici-fin-2020?id=10338762) announcing construction works in 2020:
Quote
Namur, avenue Jean-Ier (Nationale 966 qui monte à la Citadelle, entre la borne kilométrique (BK) 1,3 et la BK 1,8
Added.


N92
 - N947_N [...] doesn't directly intersect route as mapped in browser

It doesn't directly intersect but when you leave N92 here you will reach N947 - except you jump off the bridge which might happen to Belgian hwy data managers ;)


N93
 - R24 -> R24/N237?

belr = tier 4
beln = tier 5


N94
 - Lav -> RueJar

N955 according to OSM + wikisara + 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.1228218,5.1167162,3a,26.5y,280.85h,91.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s79RT-jSSILzTzEt16b2MmA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). I remember that I spent a lot of time for this route in 2017...
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on January 03, 2020, 08:25:27 am
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3497
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on January 08, 2020, 07:18:10 am
N300, N300a, N301, N302, N303 - fine

N304
 - N38 -> R33
 - VlaWeg -> VlaWeg_N

N305, N306, N307, N308, N309, N311, N312 - fine

N313
 - OmmNoo -> OmmeGang (Gang is a road term like Baan, Noo is Noord, and we don't tend to put directions on roads if they are just specifying 'this is the north one' Ommegang Zuid is the N313 approaching N303)

N314 - fine

N315
 - PopStr -> PopStr_N

N317 - I'm guessing it doesn't quite manage to connect to the N34

N318, N319, N320, N321, N322 - fine

N323
 - is that giant roundabout with the R8 and A14 one interchange and thus should be one point?

N323a, N323b, N324 - fine

N325
 - add point of Spermaliestraat (leads to point on N369)

N326, N327, N327a, N330 - fine

N331
 - RuuStr -> N381 (and add route to browser)?

N332
 - MeeWeg -> N8 (and extend N8 / join up sections)?

N333
 - FRA/BEL not on the border (though I see what you are doing, I think it will need to be an NMP for that 50m or so)

N336, N337, N338, N339, N340, N341 - fine

N343
 - does it extend north?

N344, N345, N346 - fine

N347
 - does it extend east?

N348, N350, N351, N353, N355, N356 - fine

N357
 - Mar -> StaStr (Markt is a footpath there)
 - R35_W -> R35_N?
 - KeuDam -> N437 (and extend route)?
 - R35_E -> R35_S? Also the point is off OSM

N358
 - N380 is off OSM
 - 5a -> A10
 - add point at Stationstraat as leads to A10 exit 5a (which isn't the point marked 5a on this route - the A10 file is correct and calls that 5b)

N360
 - is Lippenslaan N49c?
 - does the route continue to Kustlaan?

N362, N363, N364, N365 - fine

N366
 - does it extend west (to an extended N32b)?

N367, N367c - fine

N368
 - OudeVelStr -> VelStr

N368c, N369, N370 - fine

N371
 - is Zuidlaan N34c?
 - N31 -> N31/N371Her?

N371Her, N372, N373, N374 - fine

N375
 - RuuStr -> N381?

N376, N377 - fine

N377a
 - VaaDijkNoo doesn't seem to be a road - replace with hidden shaping point.

N379 - fine

N380
 - N318 and N358 are slightly off OSM

N382, N382b, N386, N388, N389 - fine

N390
 - Is Ieperse Steenweg N8g?

N390a - fine

N391
 - BenLaan -> N391b?

N391a, N392, N393, N396, N397, N398, N399 - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on January 08, 2020, 11:09:01 am
N400, N403, N405 - fine

N406
 - GSJs at the Dender bridge?

N407, N408 - fine

N409
 - NeuStr -> NevStr

N410 - fine

N411
 - R41 is slightly off

N414, N415 - fine

N416
 - Mol -> MolEin?

N417, N419 - fine

N423
 - NLD/BEL is slightly off (also NLD N62)

N424 - fine

N425
 - N60b -> N60/N60b

N430 - fine

N434
 - WaaStr -> WaalStr

N435 - fine

N436
 - KapStr -> KapStr_N

N437, N438 - fine

N439
 - KasDre is off

N440, N441, N442, N444, N445 - fine

N446
 - move N470 to centre of roundabout

N447, N448 - fine

N449
 - move R4 to centre of roundabout

N450 - fine

N451
 - Kou -> KouStr
 - Oud Arenberg -> N451b?
 - GysStr -> NieStr or NieKerStr (more major road)

N452, N453 - fine

N454
 - needs a concurrency with N462 to get over the railway
 - is Tweekerkenstraat N454a?

N455
 - A11 isn't a junction
 - OudeStaBaan -> BalBrug

N456
 - LedeStr -> EekStr

N457 - fine

N458
 - add point for road to large roundabout interchange on R4 (N458a?)
 - Mol -> MolEin

N459
 - GSJs next to railway?

N460
 - MolStr -> MoeStr

N461
 - N436 -> N437

N462
 - N42/N6 -> N42/N46
 - see N454
 - Tweekerkenstraat -> N454a?

N463, N464, N465, N465a - fine

N466
 - move A10 to overpass

N466a, N467, N469, N470, N470a, N470b - fine

N474
 - R4_S -> ToR4?

N485, N493, N494, N495, N496, N498 - fine

N499
 - add point for Nijverheidskaai (links to end of R43)
 - N44_W -> N44_S
 - N37/N44 needs moving for graph connection (and probably would need renaming)
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on January 11, 2020, 03:28:33 pm
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3529

N360
 - is Lippenslaan N49c?

Why do you think so? Paul Parmentierlaan seems to be officially N49c but it's a one-way street while the opposite direction is N49 main route. I always omit this.
It's also unsigned according to 2019 GSV, GM and wegenwiki (https://www.wegenwiki.nl/N49_(Belgi%C3%AB)#N49c).

N416
 - Mol -> MolEin?

N458
 - Mol -> MolEin

A "could" or a "must"? Einde means "end" and I think it's just a part of the word "Moleneinde" in Dutch. It might be Mill End in English - two words - but it isn't English.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 21, 2020, 12:35:31 pm
N500, N501, N502, N503 - fine

N504 - continues south to N60, surely?

N505 - RueCal -> RueEmiCar (Rue du Calvaire doesn't link up (yet?))

N506, N507, N508 - fine

N509 - make hidden point visible at one of the nearby road junctions

N510 - add point at RueMus? (secondary road on OSM leading to N511 point)

N511 - fine

N512 - add point at Rue de l'Armistice (leads to N511 point)?

N513 - AveWolMoz_N is off, also is it N516a?

N514, N515, N517 - fine

N518 - is the bypass open? Marked as under construction on OSM. If so then N512 (and N513) probably need points for the road meeting N518 at GSJ. If not then split into two.

N519, N520 - fine

N521 - hidden point -> RueRem? or Rem?

N523
 - RueSki -> CheArc
 - move RueMauLel to junction

N524 - fine

N525 - extends north to N7/N57?

N526, N527, N528, N529, N531, N532, N533, N534 - fine

N535
 - RueEmiMal -> RueTem
 - BlvTiv is 'Blv' the abbreviation being used for Boulevard?

N536, N537, N538, N539 - fine

N540 - N7/263 -> N7/N263

N541, N543, N544, N545, N546, N547, N548, N549 - fine

N550 - N544 -> R5

N552 - does RueJur function like a GSJ, or is it a junction with RueJac?

N553 - RueAng -> PlaCen

N554, N555, N559, N561, N562, N562a, N563, N563Mor, N564, N565, N566, N567, N568 - fine

N568a - replace hidden point with a visible point

N568b, N568d, N568e - fine

N569 - AveCapDeb -> N587?

N569For - extends east

N570 - R53 is off

N571 - N559 -> N569

N572, N572a, N573, N574, N575, N576, N576a - fine

N577 - add pointe for RueAndVes (leads to R3 exit 6)

N579, N581, N582, N583, N583a, N584, N585, N586, N586Fle - fine

N587 - route extends back round to N29?

N589 - ForJeanPet -> RueBoisGon

N589a, N591, N592, N593 - fine

N594 - add point for N53a (and route)?
 
N595 - add point for N53a (and route)?

N596, N597, N599 - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 21, 2020, 01:12:44 pm
N601, N602, N604, N606 - fine

N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?

N608, N609, N610, N612, N613, N614, N615, N615Ser - fine

N617 - put ChaLie in centre of roundabout; N639 is off

N618, N619, N620, N621, N622, N623, N624, N626, N627 - fine

N629 - add point for GSJ for the road to the Dam

N630a - RuelAer_W -> RueAer_W

N631 - move hidden point to Rue Petit Rivage junction and make visible

N632 - fine

N633 - is ToA26 N663d?

N634, N635, N636 - fine

N637 - Are RueHol_E and RueWar N637a?

N638 - fine

N639 - N617 is off
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 21, 2020, 02:16:27 pm
N640, N640Sta - fine

N641 - Ere -> RueHaiBar

N642, N643, N643a - fine

N644 - N90 -> N90/N696

N644Ivo, N645 - fine

N646 - do we want a graph connection with A27? If not then is it 1-point-per-interchange?

N647, N648, N649, N650, N651, N652, N653, N654, N656 - fine

N657 - is AveHan R61?

N658, N659 - fine

N660 - is Ref N660a?

N661, N663, N664, N666, N667, N669, N670, N671 - fine

N672 - is AveEli R61? ditto AveJeanLam N61b?

N673, N674, N675, N676, N677, N678, N679, N679a, N680, N681 - fine

N683 - N863a -> N683a

N683a - N863 -> N683

N684, N686, N689, N690, N692, N693, N695, N696, N697, N698 - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 22, 2020, 10:32:54 am
N518 - is the bypass open? Marked as under construction on OSM. If so then N512 (and N513) probably need points for the road meeting N518 at GSJ. If not then split into two.

N518 was reported to be opened in July 2020 last September (https://www.notele.be/it18-media66913-mouscron-la-route-de-la-laine-devrait-etre-terminee-en-juillet-2020.html) but I'm not sure that the deadline will be met due to the current overall situation. Split.


N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?

Or N617a? Or N617? Nothing is signed in field. I've extended N617 from N671 to N3 now. Please check in HB what I've done. I'm not happy with it...


I've extended N627 at south end up to R61. I'm not happy with the A27 wp.


https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3687
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 26, 2020, 10:46:23 am
N607 - is BlvdAvr N671a?

Or N617a? Or N617? Nothing is signed in field. I've extended N617 from N671 to N3 now. Please check in HB what I've done. I'm not happy with it...
Looks OK. The problem is the roads, not what you've done!  ;)
Quote
I've extended N627 at south end up to R61. I'm not happy with the A27 wp.
I'd make two points (3 and 3a) on A27/E42 to fix that. And add a point at Rue de la Station for access to the southern half-diamond.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 28, 2020, 12:32:18 pm
N700, N701, N702 - fine

N712
 - N746. I'm not sure how the routes in Lommel go, but it's definitely not one point in the middle of the town not even at a junction! Both Google and OSM have concurrencies between N746 and N712 (but vary on which side of the roundabout at Sint-Pietersbadenkerk they are concurrent). It seems like the town centre is traffic calmed and routes stopped up for motor vehicles. N746 used to be signed into the town centre from the north, but the signs have been removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2342166,5.3086318,3a,75y,206.85h,73.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soq43zirAPRcYO14W5iReiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). There's also the N790 coming in from Lutlommel to add to the mix.

N713 - fine

N715 - FabStr -> N790?

N715b - HereStr -> N715a?

N716, N716a - fine

N717
 - N725_E -> N717b/N725?
 - N717c: either add route, or relabel point

N718 - fine

N719 - MuiStr -> BrugStr?

N721 - extends to R73?

N722 - Sch -> N722a?

N723
 - SteWeg -> N723a? if not then SteWeg_E
 - DorStr -> N730a?

N724, N725, N726, N729 - fine

N730
 - DorStr -> N730a?
 - add point for N723a/SteWeg

N739 - SintMarPla -> N739a?

N742, N743, N744, N745 - fine

N746 - see N712

N747 - GroStr -> GroStr_W

N748 - fine

N750, N751, N752, N753, N754, N754a, N755, N757, N758, N759, N760, N761, N762, N763, N765, N766, N768, N769, N770 - fine

N771 - GroStr -> WegOpi

N772 - PasMev -> PasMevLaan (for consistency with all the other points)

N773, N774, N775 - fine

N777 - OnzHerStr -> VinStr

N779, N784, N789 - fine

N790
 - continues west to Lommel?
 - add point at Leopoldlaan as N712a?

N793 - add point at Bocholterkiezel as N731?
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 28, 2020, 01:50:47 pm
N800 - fine

N801 - N891 -> N891/N897?

N802, N803, N804, N805 - fine

N806 - extends west to N831?

N809 - N82/N875: is the one way ring R80? (also N82 and N875)

N810, N810Bou, N811, N812, N813, N814, N815, N816, N817, N818, N819, N820, N821, N822, N823, N825, N826, N827, N828, N829 - fine

N830 - fine

N831
 - Hin -> CheNan
 - PetBar -> N806?

N833 - CheMin & War -> N813_N & N813_S ?

N834, N835 - fine

N836 - add point for Contournement de Marche (N839?) as leads to N4 GSJ

N837, N838 - fine

N839 - continues south to N836?

N839Ize, N840, N840a, N841, N842, N843, N844, N845, N846, N847, N848, N849, N850, N851, N852, N853, N854, N855, N856, N857, N858, N859, N860 - fine

N861 - extends north?

N862, N864, N865, N866, N868 - fine

N870 - RueGau -> N852?

N871 - QuaOuy -> N871a?

N872 - do routes in LUX need sorting to match BEL/LUX? or vice versa? IIRC, N5E ends between the two half junctions, but should it extend to here as it does meet the N872.

N873 - fine

N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821

N875, N875a, N876, N877 - fine

N878 - Cou_E is off

N879 - Buz -> RueMon?

N880, N881, N882, N883 - fine

N884 - RueBab -> RueBab_E

N884a, N885 - fine

N886 - N88 -> N88_N

N887, N888, N889, N890, N891, N892, N893, N894, N895, N896, N897, N898, N899 - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 29, 2020, 01:31:24 pm
N902 -fine

N904 - add point for Nouvelle Route de Suarlee (leads to A15 exit 12)

N905, N907, N908, N909, N910, N911, N912, N913, N914 - fine

N915 - RueJeanLib -> RueAndLib

N917, N918, N919, N920, N921 - fine

N922 - N573 -> R53

N923, N924, N925, N928, N929, N930, N931, N931Pro - fine

N932
 - N92 -> N92/N947a
 - continues west to N978?

N933, N934, N935, N936, N937, N938, N939 - fine

N940, N941, N942, N942a, N943, N944, N945, N946, N947, N947a, N948, N949, N951, N952, N953, N954, N955, N957, N958, N959, N961, N963, N964 - fine

N966 - does the loop merit a bit more fancy shaping?

N967, N969 - fine

N971, N972, N973 - fine

N975
 - N576 -> R53 (tier 4 trumps tier 5 surely?)
 - is Rue de Walcourt (south of N574) N978?

N977 - RueGim -> RueVod

N978
 - continues north to Gerpinnes?
 - RueSaiDon is off and is it also N932?

N978a, N981, N982, N983, N983a, N984, N988, N989, N990, N991, N992, N998 - fine
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 29, 2020, 01:34:30 pm
Don't forget to check datacheck and NMP, though everything currently is marked as false positives.

http://travelmapping.net/logs/nmpbyregion/bel.nmp
http://travelmapping.net/devel/datacheck.php?sys=null&rg=BEL
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 30, 2020, 01:57:12 pm
N712
 - N746. I'm not sure how the routes in Lommel go

Same to N712 at the west. Sign into town was removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2322091,5.3008843,3a,75y,132.88h,90.97t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxo_orfR8s7c20343KUG5jg!2e0!5s20170601T000000!7i13312!8i6656).
The large direction signs at the east was also removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2275798,5.3188944,3a,75y,324.35h,88.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sc9vojBxqFWAwe5wl211c5w!2e0!5s20090401T000000!7i13312!8i6656).
And N746 at the south too - removed (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2279426,5.3146871,3a,75y,292.41h,85.39t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1sPyn0VxnxF_ocgDYHWDI_lQ!2e0!5s20190701T000000!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i36).

I've interrupted all routes at Lommel. L712 (East) already ends at N715. No evidence for extension nor where the it would end.


N715 - FabStr -> N790?
N790
 - continues west to Lommel?

no, nothing signed. I don't know where the end point should be.


N715b - HereStr -> N715a?

To the north as indicated on OSM or to the east as indicated on GM?
Keep as-is since there are also no signs on GSV.


N721 - extends to R73?

I don't think so. The extension of N721 and the existance of R73 are only indicated on OSM but no additional proof.


N790
 - add point at Leopoldlaan as N712a?

Only indicated on OSM but no idea where it should end.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 30, 2020, 03:30:29 pm
N801 - N891 -> N891/N897?

OSM is wrong. N897 is on a different route and THIS segment IS N891 according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.7181694,5.5323567,3a,75y,225.3h,86.59t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNkiWRediLJn4lvvK2WzRZw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i13312!8i6656).


N809 - N82/N875: is the one way ring R80? (also N82 and N875)

Indicated on OSM but not anywhere else. Not on any list. Keep as-is.


N833 - CheMin & War -> N813_N & N813_S ?

OSM indicates it being N813 but there is nothing on GSV. N813 exists at another place and it's signed there according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.6688365,5.6258244,3a,15y,233.4h,77.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slYUwZ-gJKOprcwretE1UTw!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i13312!8i6656) (it wasn't in 2010).


N861 - extends north?

Confirmed by 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.7483869,5.5705631,3a,75y,26.86h,98.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPC2xHOKQjaIfvmJ9kddhhQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but where does it end? I've put the wp to the next junction in Thibessart.

N871 - QuaOuy -> N871a?

Yep, according to OSM. But GM indicates it being N87. From junction with N811 (unsigned on 2019 GSV) to the French border which is N871 on OSM and 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.5290187,5.4784643,3a,26.9y,356.88h,85.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suXDxyv38TC1sBBw2z3PSUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Don't wanna add it.


N872 - do routes in LUX need sorting to match BEL/LUX? or vice versa? IIRC, N5E ends between the two half junctions, but should it extend to here as it does meet the N872.

It's annoying, but... IMO leave as-is.
The closest comparison I can think of in my regions is ME113 & NH113B at the ME/NH border, though there's only one border point and super-short route segment there.

I'm open for other suggestions :)


N873 - fine

No, it extends to Aye according to 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.2267433,5.3136321,3a,15y,17.1h,76.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbvD5VJVTY5gPwOkTKWYG_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).


N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821

Sure! Why do you doubt?
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 30, 2020, 03:43:16 pm
N874 - does it stay within shaping tolerance between Nef and N821

Sure! Why do you doubt?
It just looked off - exacerbated that the route is all to one side of the blue line. Checking it does get fairly close.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 30, 2020, 03:48:08 pm
N966 - does the loop merit a bit more fancy shaping?

I think it's pretty fine. I tried to avoid SA errors 8)


I'll check data errors, NMPs and concurrencies tomorrow, and plan to activate the system after almost three years in preview. Thanks for the peer-review :)


Edit: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3712
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 31, 2020, 06:17:17 am
Data errors, NMPs and concurrencies are fine, changes are committed, data check is running, French Fries are in the oven 8)  :P

System will be active with the next site update  :D
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: si404 on March 31, 2020, 07:06:40 am
French Fries are in the oven 8)  :P
I'm sure any Belgians reading this thread were appalled at this turn of phrase. 'French' and 'oven'. What horror is this!  ;)
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on March 31, 2020, 07:46:28 am
:) Anyway, lunch was fine. And the pull request was submitted: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3714
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: yakra on April 03, 2020, 11:12:00 am
beln.csv:
beln;BEL;N712;Pel;Pelt;;bel.n712pel;
->
beln;BEL;N712;;Pel;Pelt;bel.n712pel;
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: michih on April 04, 2020, 04:24:35 pm
beln.csv:
beln;BEL;N712;Pel;Pelt;;bel.n712pel;
->
beln;BEL;N712;;Pel;Pelt;bel.n712pel;

How did you catch this? Is there a data error (data check output?) I didn't notice?
If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: yakra on April 06, 2020, 11:52:23 am
How did you catch this? Is there a data error (data check output?) I didn't notice?
The C++ siteupdate program has a few extra error checks (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/247) not in the Python version. I've been working on some changes to check all (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/295) CSV data and data that goes into a DB field, in both versions. This should all be done... soon.

If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
This is a good idea. Thought about it but never implemented it for whatever reason. Adding to the work in progress.
Edit: Done. Tested with HighwayData @ 143811e9447d411958ff9e7660bbac96f8276e83
Title: Re: beln: Belgium Route Nationale / Gewestwegen
Post by: yakra on April 07, 2020, 12:24:08 pm
If not.... I think it should be a data error: abbrev entry exists but the city entry is missing.
This is a good idea. Thought about it but never implemented it for whatever reason. Adding to the work in progress.
Edit: Done. Tested with HighwayData @ 143811e9447d411958ff9e7660bbac96f8276e83

On second thought...
It's possible there could be some rare (but legitimate?) reasons we'd want to do this. Take KS171Pit. (http://travelmapping.net/hb/?r=ks.ks171pit) There used to be an ordinary KS171, but KDOT decommissioned it. It makes sense to remove the City field, as there's no other KS171 to differentiate from.
Could I & should I rename it KS171 & make KS171Pit an AltLabel in this case. Yeah. But the point is...
Imagine that the original plain KS171 became an AltRouteName for another route, and that it remained in-use (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/230) in a .list file. KS171Pit would by necessity have to remain KS171Pit.

It makes sense to have these not be a showstopper that terminates the siteupdate program. They could go into datacheck, with the route flagged as per normal, just with no waypoint labels listed, maybe with the system name .csv in the "Info" column to provide a little clarity.
If we really wanna get fancy with it, we could check for the corresponding abbrev-less route in in-use AltLabels (https://github.com/TravelMapping/DataProcessing/issues/230), and if found, not flag the error. I think this could even be a datacheck_always_error.