Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Completed Highway Systems Threads => Topic started by: michih on September 23, 2019, 02:46:20 am

Title: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on September 23, 2019, 02:46:20 am
The system is in preview for almost six months now and Si has indicated it being ready for review. The system covers more than 18,000 miles and I've agreed with panda80 that we'll review it together. We'll likely start the peer-review by the end of the year.

ENG reviewer: michih (11,800mi)
SCT reviewer: panda80 (4,400mi)
WLS reviewer: panda80 (1,700mi)

I think that the source is this: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Category:B_Roads (note: it's only indicates as A roads source on credits.php)

Anyone is welcome to post additional remarks to the system here.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 22, 2019, 04:42:17 am
B104:
SNChuSt_W -> SNCSt_W ?


B106:
A109 is off


B113:
Correspondig wp to A102's PonSt


B118:
A107_S is off


B125:
A12 -> A12/A102


B142:
A12 -> A12/A102


B148:
Correspondig wp to A127's HighSt
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 22, 2019, 06:21:35 am
B104:
SNChuSt_W -> SNCSt_W ?
I'm going to say no. The 'SN' is only there as there was not allowed to be two road names the same in the County of London (that became defunct in 1964) and is merely the 'Stoke Newington' place descriptor of 'Church Street'. This is in alignment with the manual's example of "Martin Luther King Boulevard becomes MLKingBlvd".

Quote
B125:
A12 -> A12/A102


B142:
A12 -> A12/A102
Given this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5450013,-0.0343469,3a,16.6y,88.14h,86.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEbi59_ANJdOvGDZgXKWoqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) on the A102 was going to be the mostly likely end of the concurrency split to show the A102 (much more important south of the A12 than north of it), but it doesn't actually have it, I have split the A102 instead.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 22, 2019, 02:44:17 pm
You 'have split the A102 instead'? Not sure that I get you right. It's concurrent to A12 here, it's not split. Do you wanna split A102 now?


B155:
A109/A1080 is off


B158:
A414 -> A119/A414


B159:
A112 wp (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=eng.b0159) is interesting. There are two branches and you've put the end point to the one which is one-way only. It seems that both are dedicated (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B159). Shouldn't we move the wp to a position between both of them, still on A112 route, like A193 on B143 (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=eng.b0143)? Or into the triangle (I don't like it)? At least, the end point of the northern branch would be better than the southern one.
I'd like to know how we wanna deal with this before I continue the peer-review. Thanks.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 22, 2019, 05:23:28 pm
You 'have split the A102 instead'? Not sure that I get you right. It's concurrent to A12 here, it's not split. Do you wanna split A102 now?
I've split the A102 - one bit north of the A12, one bit south. They function as two different roads and, since the A12 'uselessly' extended along the former motorway section of A102, might as well be different roads. I'd only kept them together as I assumed that the A102 was signed at Hackney Wick down the A12 like 'Blackwall Tunnels (A102)'. The concurrency changes dominant routes too - the A106 (from the A12 northbound at Hackney Wick, it's signed as (A102) - ie not the A102) as well as the A12 are the dominant routes - which is something that, when I find, I break a route up if I've not already - unless I find exceptional circumstances, like the concurrency being signed (eg The A10 around Cambridge (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1583572,0.0992977,3a,16.1y,52.04h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH5uUs-dILRsI1hUGWrKGFg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)).

Should point out - joined up along the A12 the route is 6.82 miles. The northern section is 1.02 miles, the southern section 3.00 miles. So 41% of the route is concurrency on a unsplit route.
Quote
B159:
A112 wp (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=eng.b0159) is interesting. There are two branches and you've put the end point to the one which is one-way only. It seems that both are dedicated (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B159). Shouldn't we move the wp to a position between both of them, still on A112 route, like A193 on B143 (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=eng.b0143)? Or into the triangle (I don't like it)? At least, the end point of the northern branch would be better than the southern one.
Moved it to the northern one, which is two-way. Treating the one-way spur as a slip lane.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:24:03 am
Remaining 100s:

B161:
Until early 2018 it began on the A112 Leyton High Road, heading southeast along Francis Road to reach Warren Road. This section has now been declassified and partly pedestrianised.  (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B161)


B165:
Split B167 wp


B169:
Move A112 to the center of the roundabout
A110 is off


B173:
Move A113 to the center of the roundabout


B174:
A12 -> A12/A125


B177:
A12 is a little bit off


B179:
A112 -> A112/A406


B180:
B181 is off
B1004 is off


B183:
HamRd -> BroSt


B184:
A113/A114 -> A128/A414
A11 -> A11/A1301
B1051_W is off
B1051_E is off


B188:
RorRd -> RowRd


B197:
A1000 -> A1000_anything
A602 -> ToA602 or Monkswood Way
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:24:43 am
200s

B209:
A2211 -> A206


B213:
A2016 is off


B219:
A2214/A2215 is off


B222:
A215/A2214 is off but I agree that it should be just one wp


B226:
A2218 -> A2212


B229:
A3 -> A3/A205


B230:
A222 is off
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.408807&lon=-0.025122


B234:
A5 -> A5/A205


B243:
Does not exist (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B243) between A222 and A232, split route


B256:
A226 -> A226_W


B258:
WadRd -> WalRd


B263:
Split A222 wp?


B266:
A212 is off


B269:
PilLn is off
B270 is off, should be in the center of the triangle


B270:
A22 is off
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.310109&lon=-0.077867 for corresponding WesRd
WesRd -> WesRd_E


B271:
A237 is off


B272:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.386151&lon=-0.139968 for corresponding A23 wp FarRd
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.352738&lon=-0.137436 for corresponding B271_E wp
A236 is off
A2022 is off


B274:
A212 is off


B278:
WryGrn -> WryGreRd


B288:
A2022_E is off
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:25:05 am
300s

B304:
I'd consider A3218 as being off


B306:
B349 is off
A219 -> A219/A308


B311:
Move A319/A322 to the center of the roundabout
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.322407&lon=-0.721453 for corresponding OldBisRd wp @ B3015


B326:
Needs an own wp @ A202, split off from A202/A3213 wp


B349:
A306 is off


B350:
A3003 is off


B351:
Move SheGate to the junction with Fife Road


B353:
A307_S is off


B358:
A313 is off
A309_S -> CheAve


B369:
A3050 is off


B375:
What's about the second branch (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B375) in Chertsey, new route?


B382:
Move A245 to the center of the roundabout


B383:
Split A329 into 2 wps ?


B386:
UpdHill -> UpdHill_S


B389:
StoRd -> StrRd
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:25:29 am
400s

B401:
A40/A401 -> A401


B413:
WarAve -> WarAve_S


B416:
A4/A412 -> A4/A332


B425:
B4102 -> B4025/B4102, it's a point in use


B430:
A34 is a little bit off


B439:
A46 -> A46/A435


B453:
Move A407 to the center of the roundabout


B454:
A315/A310 -> A310/A315


B462:
I'd split the A411/A4008 off


B466:
I'd move A40/A437 wp to the main carriageways of A40


B470:
B3022 is a little bit off


B471:
A329 is a little bit off


B474:
A404 is off, should be the eastern roundabout


B477:
Split A4/A3032 or move the wp between the junctions


B480:
A4130 is off


B481:
I'd consider A4155 being off
Move A4130_E to the center of the roundabout


B482:
A4155 is off
TheRow is off


B489:
A41 is off
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:25:51 am
500s

B518:
Exceeds limits b/n B517 and A400


B519:
ToA1 -> NorRd


B526:
A45/A508 -> A43/A45


B530:
SteRd is off (and concurrent A5120)
A5134/A5141 is off
Is the concurrency with A5120 signed? Split route into two?


B531:
A421/A428 -> A6/A421
A5141 is far off, should be at Britania Road. The current position should be a normal wp of A5141


B552:
A5109_W is off


B556:
StAlbRd_S is off


B560:
A428 -> A6/A428


B569:
A5001 is off
A509 is off


B573:
A45(11) is off
A45(13) -> A45/A509


B573ear:
A45 is off


B581:
A47 is off
A536 -> A526

B582:
A426_N is off
A5199_S is off
GarRd_E is off


B585:
Move A511 to the center of the roundabout


B586:
Move A514 to the center of the roundabout


B587:
Exceeds limits b/n NotRd_N and AshRd
A514 is off


B591:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.712095&lon=-1.288681 heading to A50 i/c
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:26:16 am
600s

B600:
A608_S is off
A608_N is off


B645:
A1 is off


B653:
Lem -> LemVil
Move B652_W to the center of the roundaboug


B655:
Move A505 to the center of the roundabout
HighSt -> CodRd ?

B658:
A600 is off
Move HitRd to the center of the roundabout


B659:
A600 is off


B664:
A427 is off
ValRd -> VlyRd ?


B667:
A47 is off


B668:
Move A606 to the center of the roundabout


B669:
Extends at north end according to https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B669 + OSM
A14 -> A6/A14


B672:
StaRd -> SeaRd
Split off A47 wp ?
A47 -> A47/A6121


B676:
Sho -> ShoLn (concurrent A6006 too)
SaxRd is off (concurrent A6006 too)
Move A1 to the overpass ? for instance, A14 wp 26 where B1040 intersects is similar and at the overpass


B679:
New wp for A52 ramp


B684:
Extends at south end
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 10:26:52 am
1000s

B1002:
A12(12) -> A12/A1023
A12(15) -> A12/A414


B1004:
AldRd -> AlbRd


B1007:
DowRd is off
A13 -> A13/A1013
A176_S wp needs to be added to A176
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.557133&lon=0.422343 to match B1036's FloWay wp


B1009:
BadRd_E is off


B1010:
B1018_W is off


B1012:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.651412&lon=0.623410


B1013:
WhiRd -> ComWay


B1018:
Split B1389 into two wps


B1019:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.759961&lon=0.633130 to match B1018's HatRd wp


B1021:
B1018_E -> BurRd_N


B1024:
+X713286 is off
A1124 is off


B1025:
AbbRd is off


B1026:
Exceeds limits b/n +X837948 and MalRd


B1029:
A133 is off
VicPl -> QueSt or anything else
Does it extend to the south and meet the route at LowParkRd again? (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1029)


B1032:
A133 is off
B1033 is off


B1033:
ElmTreeAve is off


B1035:
SwaRd -> SwanRd
PilHallLn is off


B1038:
LonRd -> StaRd
Split B1368 into 2 wps
B1383 is off


B1039:
B1368 is off


B1040:
Exceeds limits b/n A6001 and B1042_W


B1040:
Split B1046 into 2 wps - my rule of thumb is that one wp is fine when the junctions are "overlapping" - the "asphalt triangles" of the junctions 8)
ChuSt, isn't it a branch of B1040 (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1040)?
MeaRd -> MeaLn
B1096 is off
+X717006 is off
A14 -> A14/A1096

B1043Sti:
A14 is off
A1M(15a) is off route
A1M(15) is... fine


B1044:
Check route through Huntingdon (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1044), it's via Edison Bell Way
A14 -> A14/A1198


B1046:
A1198 is off


B1049:
+X962759 is off
A1123 is off
A14 -> A10/A14


B1050:
A14 is off
A1123_W is off


B1052:
Split A1307 into 2 wps!
B1061 is off


B1053:
ParLn -> PanLn
A131 is off


B1061:
A1017 is off


B1063:
Move A143 between both junctions (or even split the wp)
Move A142/A1304 to the center of the roundabout
OSM and Sabre (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1063) have a different road at west end


B1065:
B1066 is off
A143 is off


B1068:
SanLn is off
A134 is off
B1122 is off
B1122 -> B1119/B1122


B1070:
BriSt is indicated being a branch on OSM and Sabre (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1070)


B1076:
A1156 -> A1071/A1156


B1077:
A1156 -> A1071/A1156
A1120_E is off
A1120_W is off
Move B1132_E to the center of the roundabout (but there is no B1132 (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1132))
Move A1066_W to the center of the roundabout
B1132_W is off (but there is no B1132)
DeeLn is off
DeeLn -> DoeLn
HarRd is off


B1078:
A14 -> A14/A140


B1079:
+X543816 is off


B1081:
A1175_W is off


B1093:
WypeRd is off
CockBank is off
A141_S is off


B1094:
A1101 is off


B1095:
+X224430 is off


B1098:
LanHillDr -> LanHillDro (or is Drove also Dr? If so, B660 ShoDro must be renamed to ShoDr)
A142 is off
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 31, 2019, 12:48:43 pm
B243:
Does not exist (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B243) between A222 and A232, split route
Article doesn't suggest that at all - OSM (wrongly) does. However, as it's concurrent with 3 A roads in-between A222 and A212, so splitting anyway.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on October 31, 2019, 01:01:16 pm
B243:
Does not exist (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B243) between A222 and A232, split route
Article doesn't suggest that at all - OSM (wrongly) does. However, as it's concurrent with 3 A roads in-between A222 and A212, so splitting anyway.

Yes, sorry. I misread the A2039 thing first. Then, I was not sure and thought it's better to let you check it than ignoring it :)
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 31, 2019, 01:12:59 pm
B351:
Move SheGate to the junction with Fife Road
It's arguably less than the width of the road, but no. The gate is where the route disappears, not the junction with the minor road.
Quote
B375:
What's about the second branch (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B375) in Chertsey, new route?
Unsigned spurs don't get added.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 31, 2019, 03:01:50 pm
B1029:
Does it extend to the south and meet the route at LowParkRd again? (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1029)
Ordinance survey mapping shows the route splitting in two there, with Victoria Place/Station Road as one spur, and Victoria Place/New Street/Waterside as another. Neither is signed and the route, for all intents and purposes, ends there.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on October 31, 2019, 06:13:21 pm
B1044:
Check route through Huntingdon (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1044), it's via Edison Bell Way
Unsigned spur.
Quote
OSM and Sabre (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1063) have a different road at west end
That's an OSM error that has affected the trace on SABRE. SABRE has it as I do. The other road is B1103. At the A142/A1304 roundabout Old Station Road is clearly signed as B1063.
Quote
B1070:
BriSt is indicated being a branch on OSM and Sabre (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1070)
It is. Unsigned spur.

Quote
B1078:
A14 -> A14/A140
A140 doesn't really intersect here, ending concurrent (cf B1021: B1018_E -> BurRd_N)
Title: Re: Huntercombe Spur
Post by: michih on November 01, 2019, 02:11:49 pm
Not B road but... Is Huntercombe Spur something we should add to HB? https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/51.5161/-0.6563
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: si404 on November 01, 2019, 04:02:22 pm
Depends on what the Driver Location Signs going in will be - this is promising (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/3054/pdfs/uksi_20113054_en.pdf) as it separates the slip roads from the spur road, rather than treats the spur as slip roads. Ditto this from last month (https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/announcements/public_notices/notice/112071.M4_MOTORWAY-JUNCTION_7__HUNTERCOMBE_SPUR__TEMPORARY_TRAFFIC_RESTRICTIONS/). If it calls the road "M4 Spur" then it will go in like the M25 Spur or M56 Spur. Or if it is M4 A/B (and thus mainline) with HSx as numbers (cf the M4 Airport spur). But if not, then we open a big can of worms. There's other ~1km long things that don't have a visible name that might be added.

So maybe, in the future, it might be.
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on November 02, 2019, 08:52:00 am
Ok, that means, I need to travel it :)


B1101:
A1101 is off


B1102:
Add wp(s) to match A11 Red Lodge Interchange
Move A142 to the center of the roundabout
NewRd -> MarSt_S (GM is wrong)


B1103:
Move A142/A1304 to the center of the roundabout
NMP A142/A1304
NMP 1063


B1106:
Move A1101 to the roundabout
IngRd is off


B1106for:
Check route b/n A14 and A1101
A14 -> A14/A1302


B1108:
A1065 is off
A1075 is off


B1110:
B1146 is off
Move B1145 "between" both junctions
GatRd is off
A1067 is off


B1111:
NetSt is off
A1066 is off
KenRd -> KingSt (OSM+GM+GSV)
A1075 is off


B1112:
Split A1065 into 2 wps


B1113:
WalRd -> WalRd_W (OSM+GM) -> +Xxx (GSV, no sign)
I don't wanna diss you but DissRd is off ;)


B113Nee:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.062547&lon=1.094969 to match A14 interchange
A1120 -> A1120/A1308


B1115:
A1141_W is off
A1141_E is off


B1116:
Split A1120 into 2 wps
+X408884 is off
B1123 is off


B1117:
BicHillRd -> MarSt (OSM+GM+GSV)


B1118:
LonCityRd is off


B1119:
Split A12 into 2 wps


B1123:
B1124 is off


B1125:
The segment b/n A12 and B1387 is not signed on OSM, GM nor GSV


B1127:
A12 is off


B1134:
HeyRd is off


B1136:
A143 is off
A146 is off


B1137:
A12(20A) should be moved to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.774877&lon=0.590397
A138 -> A138_S


B1140:
Split A47 into 2 wps


B1145:
WhiRd -> SchRd (OSM+GM)
+X976812 is off
A1065 is off
+X499745 is off
Move A140_S to the center of the roundabout


B1146:
HighSt -> QueRd (OSM+GSV)
DerRd is off


B1149:
ValRd -> VlyRd ?
Title: Re: Great Britain B Roads (gbnb)
Post by: michih on November 27, 2019, 12:23:49 pm
B6222:
A56/A58 -> A56

http://travelmapping.net/hb/?r=eng.b6222&lat=53.596798&lon=-2.290059&zoom=16
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on December 27, 2019, 10:34:15 am
B1153:
RinRd is off
B1155 is off


B1155:
B1454 is off


B1156:
There are two HoltRd. I'd give a suffix to both.


B1161:
Move A149_W to the center of the roundabout


B1164:
GraRd is off
GraRd -> HemLn


B1165:
A1101 is off
+X279264 is off
DrawDyke -> DrawDyke_E
FulDr -> FulDro (you also changed other 'Droves' earlier this year)


B1166:
ComDr -> ComDro


B1167:
Move A47_E to the center of the roundabout
FreDro_W !!!!

B1172Spa:
A1175 is off


B1178:
A15_S is off


B1180:
MonBri -> MonBriLn


B1182:
A46/A158 -> A15/A46
A15 -> A15_S


B1183:
Split A155 into two wps


B1184:
A52 is off
MudGate -> MidGate


B1189:
PinLn is off
A153 is off


B1190:
FerRd -> FryRd ?


B1190Bir:
B1434 -> A1434


B1192:
A1121 is off
A52 is off


B1195:
A16 is off


B1196:
Check route at north end. OSM indicates two branches. GM only one but the other one than we have.




21.40% of the routes in England are done!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on December 28, 2019, 06:52:54 am
B1200:
Move A16/A157 to the center of the roundabout
A1031 is off
B1528 -> B1520
A157 -> A157_E


B1201:
A1031 is off


B1204:
A1077 is off


B1205:
A46 is off
A15_N is off


B1206:
A15_Kir is off
A15_Bar is off the overpass
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.692126&lon=-0.362259
Add another wp to show whether the route is through New Holland or on the bypass - no wild card please ;)
A18_W -> A15/A18_W
A18_E -> A15/A18_E
B1402 -> B1402/B1429, both are 100% concurrent though, OSM and GM only indicate B1402 -> delete B1429 ?


B1207:
HighSt is off
HighSt -> HighSt_E or BroAve
A18 -> A15/A18


B1208:
A18 is off
A18 -> A15/A18


B1211:
A18_E is off


B1212:
B1213 is off


B1222:
CawRd is off
CawRd -> CawRd_E ?


B1223:
A162 is off


B1224:
Move A1237 to the center of the roundabout


B1225:
A157 is off
A46: I agree that it should be one wp only but I'd move it a little bit to the east
A46 -> A46/A1173


B1228:
BriLn is off
B1230_W is off


B1230:
A1034_N is off
A1035/A1174 --> A164/A1035 please let me know if and if so, why you disagree on this!


B1231:
Move A1105 to the center of the roundabout
KempRd -> KempRd_N


B1233:
PriRd is off


B1238:
B1240 is off
B1242 is off


B1239:
B1240 is off


B1241:
A57 is off
A1500 is off
Split A1500 into 2 wps


B1242:
B1249 is off


B1246:
A1079 is off


B1248:
A64 is off
ToA64 -> add B1248 branch (https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1392438,-0.772991,3a,75y,280.87h,73.28t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sX4AktXjVv_7f_074cHR-Hg!2e0!5s20160701T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Move B1251 to the center of the roundabout
A166_W is off
A614_S is off
B1253 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on December 29, 2019, 08:41:59 am
B1251:
A166 is off


B1254:
B1255 is off


B1255:
MarVly -> MarVal as you did for B664 and B1149
B1259 is off
B1229 -> B1129


B1256:
StaRd is off
B1417 is off
A120_E is off, move it to where the ramp ends at the DC and add a new wp to the roundabout


B1257:
B1363 is off
NewAve -> GreAve


B1259:
A64 is off


B1261:
Move A165 to the center of the roundabout
Move B1261Sea to the center of the roundabout


B1261Sea:
Move A64 to the center of the roundabout


B1265:
A67 is off


B1268:
A173 is off


B1269:
SanLn is off


B1272:
BorRd -> BorRd_E


B1277:
Does it really extend north of B1376? OSM, GM, GSV and sabre (https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=B1277) disagree.


B1278:
A177 is off


B1279:
CemRd -> WooAve


B1280:
A19/A179 should be positioned on the overpass
A181 should be positioned on the overpass
A182 is off


B1281:
A19/A181 is off


B1283:
A181 is off
MillLn -> HopeSt
A19/A182 should be positioned on the overpass
Move A1086 to the center of the roundabout


B1284:
A690 should be positioned on the overpass


B1285:
A19/A182 -> A19


B1286:
BurRd -> BurRd_S


B1287:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.849427&lon=-1.346630


B1288:
A1296 -> B1296
BirByp -> PorRd


B1295:
A1 -> A1/A167


B1297:
SaxRd -> SayWay


B1299:
A181 -> A184
A1018_S is off
A183 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on December 30, 2019, 05:09:50 am
A1035/A1174 --> A164/A1035 please let me know if and if so, why you disagree on this!
Because the A1174 is the dominant route (signed unbracketed) in the (pointless, given the 1174 ends at this roundabout) concurrency with the A164 (hence why that number is given on OSM).

But I've changed it to match our rule that sometimes incorrectly assumes that lower number means more importance...
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: yakra on December 30, 2019, 10:33:19 am
But I've changed it to match our rule that sometimes incorrectly assumes that lower number means more importance...
I don't think we actually have a rule that states that though. Just skimmed the manual/wayptlabels.php (http://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php); didn't find anything. (Hit me with a link if I did miss something). I know that Tim himself did allow this (http://travelmapping.net/hb/?r=nh.nh009&lat=42.923113&lon=-72.300092&zoom=16) back in the day. Or at least, didn't object after... (froggie? Jason?) and I justified it on the same grounds.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on December 30, 2019, 10:36:28 am
But I've changed it to match our rule that sometimes incorrectly assumes that lower number means more importance...
I don't think we actually have a rule that states that though. Just skimmed the manual/wayptlabels.php (http://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php); didn't find anything. (Hit me with a link if I did miss something). I know that Tim himself did allow this (http://travelmapping.net/hb/?r=nh.nh009&lat=42.923113&lon=-72.300092&zoom=16) back in the day. Or at least, didn't object after... (froggie? Jason?) and I justified it on the same grounds.
No actual rule?
Changing that back, and B1182 labels (same thing), then!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on December 30, 2019, 12:32:30 pm
But I've changed it to match our rule that sometimes incorrectly assumes that lower number means more importance...

If memory serves.... I was taught by in my early days you that we must or should do it this way. Of course, I've assumed your command and always did it this way - especially in France where many important route have high numbers (D6xx, D9xx,...). Let's say D13A, D15B, D16C and D901 intersect, the D13A wp name is D15B/D16C omitting the most important D901.

No actual rule?
Changing that back

:o I had to revise a lot....... don't wanna do it....
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 01, 2020, 04:07:19 am
B1308:
GreRd -> GreRd_E


B1315:
StPetRd -> StPetRd_N


B1318:
Extends at north end according to OSM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. Also not confirmed by Sabre.


B1320:
A1086 is off


B1328:
Move B1329 to the center of the roundabout


B1329:
A193 is off


B1331:
Extends at west end according to OSM but I couldn't find any sign on GSV. Also not confirmed by Sabre.


B1332:
HoweGre -> HoweLn


B1334:
A197 is off
Move A96 to the center of the roundabout


B1335:
StiRd -> StiRd_W


B1337:
Move A1068 to the center of the roundabout


B1339:
B1340 is off
Couldn't find "LongRow" on OSM. GM nor GSV.
BouRd is off


B1340:
Swi is off
MainSt -> MainSt_W
B1341/B1342 is off



26.70% of the English routes checked!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: yakra on January 01, 2020, 06:05:50 pm
No actual rule?
Changing that back

:o I had to revise a lot....... don't wanna do it....

I wouldn't think any of this would require anyone to change labels. I interpret it as just meaning there are a wider variety of labels allowable.
As far as any "rule" goes, I'd think it's a matter of a "the route number to list will often but not always be the lower-numbered one" kid of helpful guideline... probably not worth encoding in the manual...
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 02, 2020, 04:14:01 am
probably not worth encoding in the manual...

I think that exactly these exceptions and interpretations should be listed in the manual ONCE. Instead of discussing it again and again and again and again on the forum. I'm sick of this discussion (although I usually don't follow it in detail)

That's why I've suggested color-coded MUST, SHOULD and COULD rules (I don't find where I've suggested it :().
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: yakra on January 02, 2020, 11:33:22 am
There's a practically unlimited amount of minutia to obsess over. If we put everything in it, it would balloon out to the point of unreadable and unmanageable density.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 02, 2020, 11:47:29 am
B1351:
Route is not shown on OSM nor GM, please check!
Move B1383 to the center of the roundabout


B1352:
Move A137 to the center of the roundabout
TheWal is off and OSM indicates the intersecting route being B1352 too, please check!
+X628919 is off
PriLn is off
A120_E is off


B1354:
HoltRd is off


B1354Col:
Move A1062/A1151 between the two roundabouts


B1357:
A17 is off


B1363:
A1036 -> A19/A1036


B1366:
A174 is off


B1368:
A10_N is off
WhiRd is off
FowRd is off
Split A505 into two wps
RoyRd is off
HighSt -> BunRd_S


B1380:
A1044 is off


B1382:
A1101 is off


B1383:
Move A1184 to the center of the roundabout


B1384:
A12 -> A12/A1117


B1385:
Move A47/A1117 to the center of the roundabout


B1394:
A17 should be @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.982091&lon=-0.275667


B1395:
FerLn -> FryLn
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 02, 2020, 04:16:42 pm
B1403:
TownSt -> TownSt_N


B1404:
Move A19 to the overpass


B1405:
A690 is off


B1411:
TheHyt is off
Check route in Ely. if OSM is right, B1382 must be moved


B1415:
Does it exist? It's not indicated on OSM nor GM


B1416:
A174 is off


B1417:
A120 felt down off the bridge


B1420:
A1014 is off


B1426:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.951213&lon=-1.562204 for A184's StoLn


B1428:
Move GtNorRd_N to the center of the roundabout


B1429:
All wps are off!


B1430:
A1077_S is off
A1077_N is off
NorHall -> NorRd_N we should stay with road names


B1433:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.402032&lon=-0.770915


B1434:
BriRd_S -> BriRd


B1435:
B1062_E is off, see satellite layer


B1436:
Move A148 to the center of the roundabout
Split A140 into two wps!


B1437:
A12_S should be at the junction east of the roundabout


B1430:
A1077 should get a suffix


B1440:
LynnRd -> StaRd (OSM and GM have different names for the road to the south)


B1443:
LinRd -> LinRd_N


B1447:
A171 is off


B1449:
A52 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 03, 2020, 10:19:03 am
B1454:
A148 is off
A149 is off


B1456:
Move A137 to the center of the roundabout
PinMillRd -> PinRd, it's one word
EdwVIIDr -> QueVicDr according to OSM and GM from zoom level 19 :)


B1458:
A1156 is off


B1460:
A171 is off due to a new roundabout


B1464:
Move A13/A176 to the overpass


B1501:
A159 is off


B1502:
Are you sure that we need A10 Great Amwell (spur)? It's just A141 on OSM and GM.
A10/A414_E -> A414/A1170 ?
A10/A414_W -> A10/A414 ?


B1505:
ToA188 -> BenLn
ToA192 -> HorRd_S
A186 -> A186/A191


B1508:
Exceeds limits b/n StaHill and +X548127
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.906802&lon=0.874679 for A133's A12 wp


B1514:
BucRd -> B1514 branch according to OSM and GM, or ChuRd/ChuLn ?
B1043 -> B1044


B1519:
A183 -> A183_W


B1522:
OceRd -> B1522 branch according to OSM, GM and GSV ?


B1524:
Move B1166 to the center of the roundabout


B1527:
A140 is off due to the new roundabout
OxmLn is simply off
OxmLn -> OxnLn



31.55% of the routes in England done!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 03, 2020, 10:49:13 am
B1502:
Are you sure that we need A10 Great Amwell (spur)? It's just A141 on OSM and GM.
A10/A414_E -> A414/A1170 ?
A10/A414_W -> A10/A414 ?
We don't need it (especially as it's concurrent with the A414), but it's not only officially a spur of the A10, but signed as A10 heading away from the mainline (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7846736,-0.0213875,3a,32.2y,143.28h,85.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFS4aS3We1PHm-x_5qUBUSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (unlike the A10 spur just to the south which I would much prefer was the signed spur instead, which is signed as '(A1170)' heading away from the A10), and therefore I think we should definitely have it.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 03, 2020, 12:49:25 pm
B1522:
OceRd -> B1522 branch according to OSM, GM and GSV ?
As I've already said, the only one that matters for spurs is GSV (hence why I've not added spurs wrt comments about OSM and GM showing them). However, in this case, the road numbers swapped about a decade ago, and signage on the old A1018 wasn't updated - what the sign is signing is not a spur of the B1522, but the former routing that is now the A1018.

Incidentally, OSM actually has (most of, at least) Ocean Road as B1405, which is what the Ordnance Survey has it as what seems like a deliberate mistake to check for copying.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on January 09, 2020, 04:33:30 am
Let's make a break a break with England and go to Wales.

WLS B4242
OSM and GM indicate a branch between ToA465 and A465.


WLS B4246
OSM and GM indicate a branch between Gov and A465 through Govilon.

WLS B4251
OSM and GM indicate a branch between ComSt and A4048.

WLS B4252
OSM and GM indicate the section between B4254_W and A4049 as A469 (seems to be a branch of it).


WLS B4257
OSM and GM indicate a branch between QueCre and A469.

WLS B4263
Add a WP for B4623 and add B4623 to HB.

WLS B4275
OSM and GM indicate a branch between A4059_Pon and A4059.

WLS B4278Por
Add a WP in Porth


WLS B4285
Check routing in Aberfan.

WLS B4287
Rename B4334 to B4434.


WLS B4290
M4 is off

Done until B4300.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 09, 2020, 05:36:17 am
WLS B4242
OSM and GM indicate a branch between ToA465 and A465.


WLS B4246
OSM and GM indicate a branch between Gov and A465 through Govilon.

WLS B4251
OSM and GM indicate a branch between ComSt and A4048.

WLS B4252
OSM and GM indicate the section between B4254_W and A4049 as A469 (seems to be a branch of it).


WLS B4257
OSM and GM indicate a branch between QueCre and A469.

WLS B4263
Add a WP for B4623 and add B4623 to HB. <or "OSM and GM indicate a branch heading north out of Caerphilly">

WLS B4275
OSM and GM indicate a branch between A4059_Pon and A4059.
None of these branches (including the A469) are, however, signed, and thus are not eligible for inclusion. The B4251 spurs seem to have lost class 2 status, making OSM and GM even more misleading!

I did add a point on the B4263 for the route heading north out of Caerphilly, and make some tweaks to some of the above routes.

Quote
WLS B4285
Check routing in Aberfan.
New bypass opened, rerouted.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on January 09, 2020, 07:00:59 am
Most of them are clearly signed:
A469: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6727839,-3.218459,3a,75y,201h,73.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIcs0KjDgZ1YGXF4lWN9Mjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

B4242:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7354537,-3.6461222,3a,75y,66.66h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKqpr1fX1qC9IlkVz_XY6sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4246:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8235274,-3.0912766,3a,75y,77.33h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBRDhG5BZgBcWC2rWiTIslA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4251:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6787011,-3.1382943,3a,75y,332.53h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxt6Q3bwtVlnmYe4ofZ5NaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4257:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7677895,-3.2952615,3a,75y,112.28h,74.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6wzGrfQa8DWzdLdPEd4ErQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 09, 2020, 08:28:39 am
Most of them are clearly signed:
A469: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6727839,-3.218459,3a,75y,201h,73.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIcs0KjDgZ1YGXF4lWN9Mjw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

B4242:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7354537,-3.6461222,3a,75y,66.66h,90.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKqpr1fX1qC9IlkVz_XY6sw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4246:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8235274,-3.0912766,3a,75y,77.33h,84.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBRDhG5BZgBcWC2rWiTIslA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4251:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6787011,-3.1382943,3a,75y,332.53h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxt6Q3bwtVlnmYe4ofZ5NaA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

B4257:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7677895,-3.2952615,3a,75y,112.28h,74.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6wzGrfQa8DWzdLdPEd4ErQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
All signed towards the mainline, and the B4521 one you've put at a junction at the end of the route in the browser, not the route you want added as a branch, so it's not only towards the mainline, but is signing the actual mainline.

These are also often the only sign, despite many of these branches TOTSOing and so work as just a vague "this way to that road" sign (eg B4257). Add in that many of the routes of these branches are now traffic calmed (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8193003,-3.0598499,3a,40.2y,261.57h,85.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdOL1OuAvmeRKQgCLjRhK7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and perhaps with through traffic dissuaded (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.9458588,1.0773213,3a,40.7y,274.12h,80.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssunPSQsCzvncw0Cmpfs39g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (one that michih suggested adding recently), and it strikes me that they are effectively outdated/erroneous signs. Others (eg B4242) are a link road with no intermediate junctions - and if we add them, we need to add the M5 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.2375239,-2.9510331,3a,75y,164.41h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFbW5g1GW-wn7heDhZBZCOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) trumpet sliproads at junction 22 as its signed as M5 towards the M5 - and probably twice given it's signed as part of the A38 (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.239546,-2.9434628,3a,15.9y,212.28h,85.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sS8HADX33koSXisyBJtPjWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) off the M5 mainline!

I do not believe that a unbracketed route number on a sign is adequate evidence of a road being inherently part of that route. For instance the road between the A465/A4143 junction and the B4246/B4269 junction is signed southbound as B4246 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8150383,-3.0279382,3a,75y,258.66h,87.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZHzrA7N2N5wxsS18XDqYcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (which is the correct number), and northbound as A4143 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8138829,-3.0301781,3a,75y,61.44h,89.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz6-QgAv3kDQGOwonAT2Kcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), the latter being not true, though if you go that way you will inevitably end up on a bit of road designated A4143. And here we have a sign for the A4059 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6933217,-3.4204423,3a,39.3y,55.62h,87.24t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1siRUdy189WA0vD-hIgBcV6w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DiRUdy189WA0vD-hIgBcV6w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D247.76572%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) on a road (that you missed) marked by OSM and GM as a branch of the B4275, but the other end has no number (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7002274,-3.4195764,3a,37.5y,240.03h,84.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTEdpssJWu_khyiE5qc9Z8w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DTEdpssJWu_khyiE5qc9Z8w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D340.90286%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) - what is that? I'd say it's a link road, not a branch of either road.

I'm not going add what is probably 2000 routes (you suggested 7 off about 50 routes, and you only mentioned about half such branches off those roads!), mostly poorly (and even incorrectly) signed and many of which are mapping errors, without quite a lot of justification. Spurs in the UK have to be signed, and signed heading away from the mainline otherwise we enter madness.


I should point out that I went to a lot of effort to work out whether to add most of these specific branches when drafting the system. I'm not going to take "OSM and GM show it" as anything serious - and expressed such in the last message before this Wales review (thank you, by the way - it's much appreciated). I'm going to need some evidence it should be included beyond unreliable mapping sources, otherwise I'll just ignore it from now on.

Edit: adding the A469 branch as there is actually a sign pointing away from the mainline with that number on: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6705061,-3.2238246,3a,75y,78.59h,80.61t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMDAv5x5k6zFbW-7wLhY4QA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 09, 2020, 02:35:59 pm
I do not believe that a unbracketed route number on a sign is adequate evidence of a road being inherently part of that route.

Yep, we saw last fall that that unbracket numbers are not an evidence. There are more incorrect unbracket road numbers in UK than expected.

I should point out that I went to a lot of effort to work out whether to add most of these specific branches when drafting the system. I'm not going to take "OSM and GM show it" as anything serious

Is Wales so bad? I think that England is not that bad. What's about Scotland?

I'm going to need some evidence it should be included beyond unreliable mapping sources, otherwise I'll just ignore it from now on.

I think it's better to report when maps show different routes so that you can check - e.g. in case of newly opened bypasses etc. - than ignoring it for the peer-review. And it's always possible that you missed something. That's why we make a peer-review.
In addition, it might help in case of an issue in the future when we can check how the situation was before activation and read why we didn't include it.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 09, 2020, 02:56:54 pm
Is Wales so bad? I think that England is not that bad. What's about Scotland?
It's not specific to any. I pointed this out to you, doing England, too.
I think it's better to report when maps show different routes so that you can check - e.g. in case of newly opened bypasses etc. - than ignoring it for the peer-review.
Altered routes, sure - they are worth looking at. Branches? I need more evidence than just the mapping.
Quote
And it's always possible that you missed something. That's why we make a peer-review.
Well yes, I was just clarifying what is actually something I missed, and "OSM/GM says there's a branch" almost certainly isn't something I missed.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 09, 2020, 03:13:40 pm
I think it's better to report when maps show different routes so that you can check - e.g. in case of newly opened bypasses etc. - than ignoring it for the peer-review.
Altered routes, sure - they are worth looking at. Branches? I need more evidence than just the mapping.

Yes, it makes no sense with branches of B roads but B4252 which is indicated as A469 should be checked that it's really a B road since OSM + GM show it as A469.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 12, 2020, 07:37:41 am
Back to England:

B2010:
FarLn is off
FarLn -> StaHill
B2162 is off


B2011:
Move A20 to the underpass


B2015:
B2162 is off
Move A228 to the center of the roundabout


B2016:
A20 is slightly off


B2019:
A25 is off


B2023:
A26 is off


B2024:
RecLn is off


B2026:
New wp for A26's CroRd
StrHalfMile -> StrHalfMile_S
B2188 is off
Split A264 into two wps
SpoLn is off


B2030:
Split A23 into two wps


B2032:
B2033 is off
B2022_S -> B2220_S


B2036:
Split A273_N into two wps
Move A272_E to the center of the roundabout
+X140920 is off
HayHeaRd is off
B2110_E is off


B2042:
A25 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 12, 2020, 08:22:00 am
Yes, it makes no sense with branches of B roads but B4252 which is indicated as A469 should be checked that it's really a B road since OSM + GM show it as A469.
Branch of A roads are in the same boat - OSM+GM saying so is meaningless without other evidence.

Because that actually is an A469 branch (or at least signed as such, including away from the mainline), it was an error. But if I hadn't found that one sign that made that road an A469 branch, what I had was correct.

It's now fixed and in the browser.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 13, 2020, 03:38:32 pm
B2050:
Split A256 into 2 wps ?


B2052:
A28 is off
Split A255_N into 2 wps ?
B2053 is off


B2054:
VicPar -> VicPar_N


B2055:
TriSqy -> TriSqu_N


B2056:
A258_N is off


B2064:
A2034 is off


B2067:
AldRd -> AldRd_E


B2070:
B2199 is off


B2079:
UndLn is off
HowRd is off
JarLn is off
JarLn -> CurGreLn (OSM, GM, GSV)


B2080:
HeaRd is off


B2085:
A229 is off


B2088:
A28 is off


B2089:
FloLn is off
A28 is off


B2090:
A21 is off


B2092:
A259 is off
Segment from A2100 to A2690 is indicated being A2690 on OSM and GM, but it's clearly B2092 on 2019 GSV


B2093:
A259 is off


B2095:
A269_S is off
B2204_N is off


B2099:
A21 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on January 14, 2020, 06:21:50 am
B2092:
Segment from A2100 to A2690 is indicated being A2690 on OSM and GM, but it's clearly B2092 on 2019 GSV
Yep, hence why I mapped it that way. :P

I might go fix OSM, but I'm sure I did when I dealt with making the same error OSM did and it's been undone. I got it right first time, then there was something that made me err (probably OSM extending the route, though OS has it as well and that counts for a lot more), then I fixed it 2 years later when the evidence for/against appeared.

2015-07-25;(UK) England;A2690;eng.a2690;New Route
2016-03-09;(UK) England;A2690;eng.a2690;Route extended at east end from B2092 to A2100
2018-02-04;(UK) England;A2690;eng.a2690;Route truncated at east end from A2100 to B2092
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on January 18, 2020, 05:42:05 am
B2100:
Move A267 between both junctions (which are one junction in the end)


B2102:
A22 -> A22/A26


B2103:
A259 is off
Move B2106 to Devonshire Place as indicated on OSM and GM?


B2104:
Check routing in Hailsham, GSV is from 2018/19 - gbnb was drafed earlier
wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.866382&lon=0.254153 and wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.861583&lon=0.256513 ?
A267 is off
A295_S is off


B2106:
I can agree with A259_W location but I'd change B2103 location, see B2103


B2108:
Move A226 between both junctions (which are one junction in the end)


B2110:
Merge A22/A264 and A22_S wps ?


B2112:
A273 is off
GreRd is off


B2114:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.069603&lon=-0.203671 and for A23 too
SlaRd -> BraLn
B2115 is off


B2115:
SloLn is off


B2116:
A273 is off


B2117:
A281 is off
B2118 is off


B2119:
A270 doesn't intersect in HB @ A23/A270 wp but it should


B2123:
A259 is off


B2128:
B2130 is off


B2130:
Split A281 into two wps? I would


B2131:
Split A286 into two wps? I would
A283 is off
Exceeds limits b/n B2070 and A287
Add branch north of A287 wp, see OSM, GM and GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0878181,-0.7363752,3a,27y,343.56h,84.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHVptOOQpMLlYByXWddWfGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)?
The branch south of A287 is indicated on OSM and GM but not on GSV. We might add a new wp for it though - at A287 too.


B2132:
Split A259 into two wps!


B2133:
B2139 is off
PaiRd -> PlaRd


B2135:
+X204258 is off


B2138:
A29 is off


B2139:
OpenAirMus -> AmbMus / Amb
A283_N is off
A283_S is off


B2145:
A259 is off
B2201 is off


B2146:
FinRd -> LocLn
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on February 09, 2020, 02:41:23 pm
B2154:
A288 -> A288_E


B2163:
A26 is off
A274 is off


B2166:
AldRd -> AldRd_W


B2169:
A267 is off


B2174:
Move A207/A226 to the center of the roundabout


B2176:
A26 is off
B2188 is off


B2177:
A32_N is off
Move A32/A334 to the center of the roundabout
A334_W is off


B2179:
ItcRd is off


B2180:
Move B2195_S to the center of the roundabout
Move B2195_N to the center of the roundabout


B2183:
A272 is off


B2187:
A259 -> A259_N


B2188:
LyeGre is off
A264_W is off


B2191:
A259 is off


B2192:
A267 is off
Move A22 to the center of the roundabout
A26 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on February 16, 2020, 04:40:36 am
B2200:
A24 -> A24/A232


B2205:
A291/A2990 wp might be a candidate for the one-point-per-interchange rule because the roundabout is within the interchange due to the ramp onto A299 eastbound


B2211:
Move A224 to the center of the roundabout


B2215:
A3_S is off because there is only one ramp. The 2nd ramp is fenced (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.275677,-0.5223009,3a,15y,189.83h,86.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss_MfhM8Lhb5BSS7zfAQWTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and indicated being closed on OSM


B2229:
Move A28 to the center of the roundabout


B2231:
Move A2500_E to the center of the roundabout
BarHillDr is off due to a new roundabout (https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/sentinel-playground/?source=S2&maxcc=20&zoom=17&lat=51.410369&lng=0.787325)


B2233:
I'd move A29_S to the A29 main line
Move A29_N to the center of the roundabout
A259 is off


B2237:
A24_N -> A24/A264


B2244:
A21 is off
A229 is off


B2247:
A22 -> A22_E


B2259:
But -> ButBogReg or UppBogRd_E


B2260:
Move A21/A2014 to the center of the roundabout


B2450:
Move A24/A246 to the center of the roundabout


B2500:
Move A296 to the center of the roundabout



39.29% of the routes in England done!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on March 05, 2020, 06:41:05 am
Let's return to Wales:

WLS B4306
2 WPs for B4317 (the intersections are quite far for a single WP)

WLS B4314
New WP at Kiln Park Road in Norberth

WLS B4320
Rename B4319 to B4319_W

WLS B4330
Do we really need the WP ToA40? If yes, rename to BriMeaRd_E

WLS B4337
A482 is off

WLS B4362Bur
WLS/ENG is off

WLS B4381
The section between A458_E and A458/A490 seem to be a branch of A458

WLS B4391
Rename A494 to A494/A4212


WLS B4393
Rename B4391 to A490_W

Done until B4398.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 05, 2020, 01:08:15 pm
WLS B4381
The section between A458_E and A458/A490 seem to be a branch of A458
The signage is a mess. OSM is somewhat trying to show the signage, but doesn't do it quite right - your confusion is understandable!

The B road is signed as the main road (especially approaching from the east) as '(A458)' and with green (primary) signs that you don't tend to see on a B road. However it's bracketed (ie 'to') and the A458 is signed on the parallel route (and in green too), so it's not a branch, nor the mainline.

Interestingly, approaching Welshpool from the North/East they have a similar thing to approaching from the west, where the signs want you to take the B road (though it's signed as such) instead of the primary (and thus trunk, and nationally rather than locally maintained) A road. I guess the legal orders to change over road ownership are effort, so its not been changed.
Quote
WLS B4391
Rename A494 to A494/A4212


WLS B4393
Rename B4391 to A490_W
Both of these don't intersect with the A road, merely the concurrent A road ends here. As such I've left these as is for the moment, until (if) persuaded that these should be labelled with a non-intersecting road that if you take you'll travel further along the route you are travelling on.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 05, 2020, 04:01:23 pm
WLS B4391
Rename A494 to A494/A4212

WLS B4393
Rename B4391 to A490_W
Both of these don't intersect with the A road, merely the concurrent A road ends here. As such I've left these as is for the moment, until (if) persuaded that these should be labelled with a non-intersecting road that if you take you'll travel further along the route you are travelling on.

I agree with B4393's B4391 wp being B4393 because the A route is just concurrent to B4393 and ends here. It really doesn't intersect anyhow.

I don't agree with leaving out A4212 of B4391's A494 wp. It starts here and is not cuncurrent anyhow. If A494 would be a B road, the label should be A4212. If A4212 would be M4212, the label had to be M4212. I don't see any sense in omitting A4212. Thus, I'm in favor of A494/A4212.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 06, 2020, 03:58:46 am
I agree with B4393's B4391 wp being B4393 because the A route is just concurrent to B4393 and ends here. It really doesn't intersect anyhow.

I don't agree with leaving out A4212 of B4391's A494 wp. It starts here and is not cuncurrent anyhow. If A494 would be a B road, the label should be A4212.
Glad you agree with my reasoning on the B4393, but baffled as to why you can't see the same applying to the B4391.

1) I don't see how "ends here"on the B4393 label and "starts here" on the B4391 label mean totally different things as they are functionally the same thing.

2) The B4391 and A4212 are very much concurrent. I'd argue your error here is your main point.
WLS A4212
A494 <-> B4501
Length: 2.39 mi
Concurrent with: WLS B4391

3) If the A494 was a B road, then that makes it even more like the B4393 point where you agree with my labelling.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on March 06, 2020, 04:35:09 am
WLS B4478
Rename A4046 to A4046_S

WLS B4488
Not signed, are you sure it exists here?

WLS B4489
Rename A483_N to A483/A4118

WLS B4501
Separate the WP B5105 into 2 WP2 (there are 2 separate intersections)

WLS B4524
Rename B4565_N , S and E to B4265_N, S and E

WLS B4595
A473_Ton is off (should be moved between the branches)

WLS B4603
New WP at the intersection with Christopher Road (access to A4067)

WLS B4800
A483/A489 is off
Done until B4800.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 06, 2020, 12:12:03 pm
but baffled as to why you can't see the same applying to the B4391.

Sorry, my bad. Of course, I agree with both! I switched back and forth between B4391 and A4212.... I guess I've just mistaken them.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 21, 2020, 09:29:32 am
B2000:
Split B2108 wp into two wps


B2004:
A289_W should be on the main carriageway. It's not a roundabout.


B2006:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.346510&lon=0.733075 - heading to A240 GSJ


B3001:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.182154&lon=-0.685798 - heading to A3 GSJ
A3 -> A3/A283


B3004:
WhiRd is off


B3006:
HonLn is off
A31/A339 is off


B3008:
A325 is off


B3012:
B3411 is off
A324 is off


B3013:
Move A287 to the center of the roundabout
Move AldRd to the center of the roundabout


B3014:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.295625&lon=-0.777036


B3018:
StrMile -> StrMile_S
Why is "The Straight Mile" = StrMile but "The Street" = TheSt?


B3020:
A329 is off


B3022:
A308 -> A308/A332


B3024:
A330_S is off
A332 -> A308/A332


B3028:
Move StaLink to the center of the roundabout


B3032:
Move A324 to the center of the roundabout


B3034:
A330_N is off


B3036:
NetFirRd -> NetFirsRd


B3040:
B3047 -> B3047/B3330


B3044:
B3330 -> B3330/B3420


B3047:
Split A33 into two wps
B3040 -> B3040/B3330
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 21, 2020, 11:33:21 am
B3018:
StrMile -> StrMile_S
Why is "The Straight Mile" = StrMile but "The Street" = TheSt?
Because we drop stuff like "The", but that looks really silly when it leaves a point called 'St', so stuff like "The Street" treats the 'The' not as some extraneous bit, but an integral part of the road name.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 21, 2020, 03:37:08 pm
B3051:
ColeHenRd is not on the main line


B3054:
A326 is off
West end is correct according to 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.768695,-1.5524115,3a,75y,137.09h,71.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHqCHwSziQHfWYO0t-E_cw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) but there is another branch according to OSM and 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7599856,-1.5500053,3a,75y,84.09h,54.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdZ0TghejqJYnn_DnB-XGsQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)


B3061:
Segment at west end from A3049 to B3068 is not signed according to GSV, GM and OSM


B3066:
WestCliRd -> WestCliRd_W
A338 -> A35/A338


B3068:
A350_PooN is off now
Why do we need SlipWay wp? It breaks the concurrency to A350 but it don't get why it should.
A3049 -> A348/A3049


B3078:
Please remove A31 wp
WimSt -> WimSt_N
HillRd -> HilRd
B3080 is off


B3081:
I'd move B3081Win onto the traffic island
A31 -> A31/A338

B3086:
ThePac_E: Is The Packway more like The Straight Mile or like The Street? And I'm also not sure whether Packway one word. Should it be PackWay?


B3089:
A30 is off


B3082:
A354 -> A350/A354
A350 -> A350_N


B3091:
+X410163 is off


B3098:
A342 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 21, 2020, 04:54:07 pm
but there is another branch according to 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7599856,-1.5500053,3a,75y,84.09h,54.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdZ0TghejqJYnn_DnB-XGsQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
We've been through this several times - I'm not accepting signs pointing to the mainline (as we'd have hundreds of routes to add). Spurs only count if signed pointing away from the mainline.
Quote
B3086:
ThePac_E: Is The Packway more like The Straight Mile or like The Street? And I'm also not sure whether Packway one word. Should it be PackWay?
It's very much one word (and not in the Germanic compound word way) and the definite article belongs with the name - more so than 'The Street'. There's other streets, but 'The Street' is called such as it's a Roman Road. This is 'The Packway' - only two other roads are called such in Britain, whereas there's many more 'The Street's that are Roman (and The Packway would see that as upstart new-fangled nonsense, even though the other two E-W roads in the near vicinity are older).
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 22, 2020, 02:46:53 am
but there is another branch according to 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7599856,-1.5500053,3a,75y,84.09h,54.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdZ0TghejqJYnn_DnB-XGsQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
We've been through this several times - I'm not accepting signs pointing to the mainline (as we'd have hundreds of routes to add). Spurs only count if signed pointing away from the mainline.

sure, and I wrote that I'll report it so that you can review it.

I think it's better to report when maps show different routes so that you can check - e.g. in case of newly opened bypasses etc. - than ignoring it for the peer-review.
Altered routes, sure - they are worth looking at. Branches? I need more evidence than just the mapping.

Yes, it makes no sense with branches of B roads but B4252 which is indicated as A469 should be checked that it's really a B road since OSM + GM show it as A469.

In addition, if we come back to the point in x months or years, we can check up how the situation was when the peer-review was done. What and why we decided this way.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 22, 2020, 04:26:38 am
B3105:
Split B3107 into two wps


B3107:
Move NewRd to the center of the roundabout (OSM and GM show crap here compared to 2019 GSV)


B3116:
BathRd is also indicated being B3116 on GM and OSM. There is a sign at A4 on 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4122909,-2.4828283,3a,75y,281.45h,81.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRj8CUzC_QpfOd740guTGRg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) but nothing for the other branch to A4175 we currently have in HB.


B3123:
A379: Add route or rename wp


B3124:
HolLn is also indicated being B3124 on OSM and GM. Our routing seems to be confirmed by 2015 and 2019 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4394755,-2.8422662,3a,15y,265.62h,81.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9dWirnDRIdkfSinyiSrfnA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).
HighSt is also indicated being B3124 on OSM and GM. Our routing seems to be confirmed by 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4774858,-2.7550881,3a,15y,267.29h,87.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_I4ERik7V-NCHHMoDU7KZg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). The other route is not confirmed by what I've seen.


B3128:
A3029 -> A370


B3130:
StoWay -> StoWay_W


B3134:
A368 is off
A39 is off


B3136:
I'd move A37 wp a little bit to the north which seems to be the main branch
A371_W -> A361/A371


B3138:
A377 -> A39/A377


B3139:
Split A37 into two wps


B3139Dul:
Does it exist? It's confirmed by OSM and GM but not by GSV (or I just couldn't find any evidence). I only found a sign for the other route though: 2018 GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2124923,-2.6478116,3a,75y,27.27h,88.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHmTNalCh-39wu1u_jzB0_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192).


B3145:
Add A30's B3145_N wp and/or check situation in Sherborne


B3147:
A37 -> A37/A352
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 23, 2020, 12:30:47 pm
B3150:
A35_E -> A35/A354


B3152:
A371 is off


B3151:
A39_S -> A39/A361
A361 -> A361_E


B3157:
OSM has an additional branch at north end but that seems to be wrong


B3170:
LisWay -> NerRd ?


B3174:
Exceeds limits b/n A3052 and Cau


B3173:
A308 -> A308/A332


B3188:
BirLn -> HighSt


B3199:
Move A379 to the center of the roundabout
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on March 25, 2020, 11:08:03 am
Last round from Wales:

WLS B5381
2 new WPs, at intersection with Engine Hill and Primrose Hill (direct access to expressway exits)

WLS B5436
Rename B5347 to B5437

WLS B5437
Rename B5346 to B5436

WLS B5441
Move A494 to the center of the roundabout

Review wlsb finished, will start sctb next days.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 25, 2020, 01:47:30 pm
B3201:
A3022 -> A379/A3022
A379 -> A379_S


B3204:
A381 is off


B3205dar:
A379_W is off


B3213:
A38_E -> A38/A3121


B3215:
A3072 -> A3072/A3124


B3216:
A386 is off
A386 -> A386/A3072


B3226:
A377 is off


B3227:
WooHill is off


B3232:
A39 -> A39/A3125


B3233:
Move A386 to the center of the roundabout


B3234:
A39_W is off


B3237:
CovCarPark -> CloCarPark


B3247:
ToA374_E -> AntHill
WestSt -> WestSt_E


B3248:
ForeSt -> ForeSt_W
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 25, 2020, 04:23:14 pm
B3254:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.455591&lon=-4.464666


B3254lis:
A38 -> A38/A390


B3263:
ForSt -> ForeSt
ValRd -> ValRow


B3270:
A33 -> M4


B3275:
A30 -> A30/A39
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 28, 2020, 01:58:17 pm
B3301:
Move B3302 to the center of the roundabout


B3306:
A3071_W needs to be renamed since A3071 doesn't intersect but end here
TreRd is indicated being B3318 on OSM and GM but it seems to be wrong - or just not signed according to GSV
Is BunHill the right location for the end of the route? It's on a one-way street, I'd move it to the next junction - Church Place - or truncate the route.


B3311:
Move A30 to the center of the roundabout


B3317:
A3071 is off


B3323:
B3399 is off
A3020 -> A3020/A3054

B3327:
A3055 is off


B3330win:
Move B3404 to the center of the roundabout
B3044 -> B3044/B3420
B3040 -> B3040/B3047


B3334:
MayLn -> MaysLn see GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.826812,-1.2142083,3a,75y,324.91h,72.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-I-CqAzPq1NEzugEmjPJ3Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


B3335:
HazRd is off
M3_S -> A3090_S
M3_N -> M3
A3090's B335_S -> B3335_S


B3339:
HomWay -> A39 as OSM + GM indicate? GSV is not clear on this


B3343:
GeoRd -> Geo


B3344:
ToA38 -> B3344 spur? GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@50.5850394,-3.6316801,3a,75y,272.47h,96.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shPoDILJn__vbFdd0s_xWlw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)


B3349:
BarSt is off
HolLn is off
BarRd -> BarWay
LenSt -> BasRd_E
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 29, 2020, 01:19:18 pm
B3359:
A387 is off


B3362:
NewLauRd is off
NewLauRd -> Lam   


B3369:
A35 -> A35/A350


B3373:
SouDri -> SouDr


B3374:
EdenPro -> Tre ?


B3376:
A308 -> A308/A320


B3377:
A315 is off


B3379:
A307 is off


B3380:
A38_N -> A38/A384


B3384:
A325 is off


B3398:
A3090 -> A27/A3090


B3399:
AppRd is off


B3411:
HighSt -> HighSt_S


B3414:
A36 -> A36_E


B3416:
A38_W -> A38/A374


B3421:
HamLn_E is off


B3430:
A322 is off


B3420:
B3044 -> B3044/B3330



53.95% of the routes in England done!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on March 29, 2020, 05:23:00 pm
Let's briefly move to Scotland:

SCT B700
Rename A8/A70 to A8
Rename A700 to A702 and add the WP on A702

SCT B710
Move A7 between the branches

SCT B732
A76 is off

SCT B733
A714 is off

SCT B734
Add a WP at the intersection with Coalpots Road (falsely signed as B7035 in OSM)

SCT B743
A76 is off

SCT B746
Rename A759 to A759_W

SCT B749
Section between TroPort and A759 is indicated as A759 on OSM

SCT B755
Rename A7/A724 to A72/A724

SCT B763
Rename A749_N to NewSt
Rename A749_S to A749

SCT B765
Are you sure about the routing in the north? OSM gives the route over Robroyston Road, also confirmed by GSV

Done until B765.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on March 30, 2020, 03:23:33 pm
SCT B769
Add WP B778 in Steverton (concurrency with A735 broken)

SCT B789
A761_E is off

SCT B799
Check routing at northern terminus. OSM and GSV indicate routing over Lancaster Avenue.

SCT B800
A90 is off


SCT B802
Add a WP in Condorrat (Motorway/Expressway access)
Concurrency with B799 broken (add WP for M8)

SCT B829
The end seems to be a little further NW


SCT B847
Rename A9 to Cal

Done until B849.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 30, 2020, 04:15:42 pm
SCT B799
Check routing at northern terminus. OSM and GSV indicate routing over Lancaster Avenue.
I drafted this area about when the M8 opened, so various changes hadn't filtered through to mapping. Rerouting the B799 on this (pre-existing) bypass was part of those changes - and one not publicised.
Quote
SCT B802
Concurrency with B799 broken (add WP for M8)
If the routes were concurrent with each other, there would be zero point in extending the B802. When drafting, I knew that the M8 was supposed to interchange with the B799, and the route avoiding the M8 junction was to be a B road. The set up as it was (until I changed it just now) had the B802 taking the avoiding route, and the B799 via the interchange.

As it is, despite plans suggesting otherwise, the B799 avoids directly intersecting with the M8 (and there's brackets on the signs) by taking what was mapped as part of the B802, rather than the route via the M8 that it was mapped as taking. B802 truncated, B799 point for the M8 removed. Points relabeled.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on March 31, 2020, 02:10:30 pm
B4000:
Check routing through Lambourn. B4000 is indicated in brackets at ParLn, BayRd_S and B4001_N. Only the outbound signs are without brackets. I think that they try to lead traffic on the route we have in HB but that the dedicated route is the other one with the traffic bottleneck. All wpt editor layer and GM indicate the latter route.
B4507 is off
Move A361 to the center of the roundabout


B4001:
B4507 is off
A417 is off


B4003:
A4 is off


B4006:
Route south of B4006Str was was signed in May 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5848832,-1.7500729,3a,15y,163.34h,81.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKw2rA4Dw0XYBKCpzcyjlfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but no longer signed in July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5848021,-1.7500488,3a,75y,140.23h,78.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sotfbefWmKc4IL93O0guvkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Signs are still in place at all other junctions though - 2017 and 2018 GSV.


B4008:
A419 -> A419_W
Move M5 onto the bridge
A38_N -> A38/A430
A38 -> A38_N
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.818020&lon=-2.279599


B4009:
B4444_N is off
Move HillRd to the center of the roundabout
Split A40 into two wps
HighSt -> CasSq
BenLn is off
A329 is off
A329 -> A329_S
A4130_W -> A329/A4130
A4074_N -> A329/A4074


B4011:
A41 is off
+X127342 is off


B4012:
A40 is off


B4014:
A433/A4135 is off
A433_S is off
Move TetHill to the center of the roundabout


B4015:
A415 is off


B4016:
SirHill -> DidRd
A417 is off


B4017:
A420 is off


B4019:
Move A361_S to the center of the roundabout
Do A4311 and B4534 need B4019's B4534 wp or should the latter be removed (one wp per interchange rule?) or do A4311 and A419 need another wp at the northbound carriageway ramps?


B4022:
A4095 is off
A44 is off


B4026:
Move B4450 to the center of the roundabout


B4027:
A40 is off
Replace LowSt by wp at Middle Street
A34 is off
A4095_E is off
A4095_W is off
A4260 is off


B4030:
A4260 is off
StaRd is off
StaRd -> StaRd_E


B4031:
B4100_N is off


B4032:
+X471954 is off


B4033:
PilLn -> SinLn
A413 is off


B4034:
SunSt -> DunSt or LocRd


B4035:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.091258&lon=-1.942107
A46 -> A44/A46


B4037:
A361 is off


B4039:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.525322&lon=-2.277480
CroLn is not indicated nor signed here; make it hidden


B4040:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.527367&lon=-2.276554


B4042:
+X348360 is off


B4044:
CumHill is off


B4047:
A4095 is off


I have the damn slowly loading OSM tile issue for weeks now..... It was not possible to work on norfv today and I could only do this review because I used the "German Style" OSM tile for zooming close. Hope it will be over soon.........
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on March 31, 2020, 04:34:41 pm
B4000:
Check routing through Lambourn. B4000 is indicated in brackets at ParLn, BayRd_S and B4001_N. Only the outbound signs are without brackets. I think that they try to lead traffic on the route we have in HB but that the dedicated route is the other one with the traffic bottleneck. All wpt editor layer and GM indicate the latter route.
Official route was changed fairly recently (especially wrt 2011 GSV) to match the unofficial route. Tile mapping slow to pick up.
Quote
B4006:
Route south of B4006Str was was signed in May 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5848832,-1.7500729,3a,15y,163.34h,81.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKw2rA4Dw0XYBKCpzcyjlfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) but no longer signed in July 2017 (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5848021,-1.7500488,3a,75y,140.23h,78.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sotfbefWmKc4IL93O0guvkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Signs are still in place at all other junctions though - 2017 and 2018 GSV.
Segment still signed - no change.
Quote
B4009:
Split A40 into two wps
That's really close to the overlap rule you have, but I've done it.
Quote
B4019:
Do A4311 and B4534 need B4019's B4534 wp
Yes. And truncated B4019 back to what's now labelled A419/A4311, and B4534 to A4311.

SCT B829
The end seems to be a little further NW
It ends there. Also, I think you meant NE, not NW. When I went down there there were roadworks on that tiny little lane, meaning a narrow single track road had 'road narrows' signs and dropped down to about 2m wide in place. Even for a rural Scottish B road that's extreme. Quite how the coaches managed - but they did as there was no other way they'd get to the hotel at the end!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 01, 2020, 05:58:14 am
B4009:
Split A40 into two wps
That's really close to the overlap rule you have, but I've done it.

yes, close but not close enough :)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 01, 2020, 06:19:49 am
yes, close but not close enough :)
Really? (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6766688,-0.9534549,3a,75y,45.47h,57.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s94HCPXnlNSjM6FIE9SbEQQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) looks to me that the junction lines stop basically opposite each other.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 01, 2020, 12:54:27 pm
yes, close but not close enough :)
Really? (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.6766688,-0.9534549,3a,75y,45.47h,57.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s94HCPXnlNSjM6FIE9SbEQQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) looks to me that the junction lines stop basically opposite each other.

I think... minimum 5mm ;) your decision!


B4053:
A4044 wp needs to be synced - the roundabout does not exist anymore, see upthread


B4060:
PegHill -> SouWay
StuLn is off
Split B4066 into two wps


B4061:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.620756&lon=-2.482001


B4063:
A38 -> A38/A417
A40_W -> A40/A417


B4064:
Are you sure about the location of the western end? I think there is no sign but the logical end might be a little bit to the south at the station as OSM suggests.


B4070:
MainLn -> CalfWay


B4073:
A46 is off. I'd move it between the one-way branches


B4075:
A40 -> A40/A435


B4077:
B6432 -> B4632


B4078:
A46 -> A46/A435


B4080:
A38 -> A38/A438


B4082pir:
A44 -> A44/A4104


B4084win:
A44 is off


B4086:
A3400 -> A422/A3400


B4088:
A422/A441 -> A422 at the southern junction as an additional wp to A422
Dun -> HighSt
A44 -> A44/A4184


B4089:
CapHill -> CapHill_W


B4090:
Split B4092 into 2 wps (?)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 01, 2020, 04:02:46 pm
Scotland:

SCT B851
Rename B9154_N to B9154

SCT B861
Rename B8082 to A8082

SCT B974
Split A90 WP

SCT B981
Rename A909 to A909_N

Done until B999.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 02, 2020, 09:18:12 am
B4100:
WhiPostRd -> Ban ?
BucRd_N -> BucRd


B4100Bir:
A34 -> A34/A41
A41 -> A41_N


B4101:
A4053 -> A4053/A4114


B4102:
Exceeds limits b/n B4112_W and B4098


B4103:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.348544&lon=-1.590378 leading to A429/A452 junction
A452_S -> A429/A452


B4104Ken:
A452 -> A429/A452


B4110:
A428_E -> A428/A444


B4112:
Move B4428_E onto the traffic island


B4114:
ActLn -> AstLn


B4115:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.354751&lon=-1.523235 leading to GSJ
Really one-point-per-interchange @ A45/A46? I tend to split it off.


B4117:
A446 -> A446_anything


B4119:
B4114 -> B4118
B4118 -> B4114


B4121:
ChuRd -> ChuRd_S


B4125:
A4030/A4092 -> A4092


B4126:
70% of the route is concurrent to A4540. Split it so that only the two short segments remain (0.45mi + 0.78mi)
A34 -> A34/A41
6(A4540) -> A4540


B4127:
Move A4540 between the one-way branches


B4132:
A4540 -> A34/A4540 or A41/A4540 or A34/A41


B4133:
A4540 -> A34/A4540 or A41/A4540 or A34/A41


B4145:
Move CovRd to one of the junctions or split the wp into 2 wps or remove it
You might reposition A41 a bit


B4148:
RedHill -> RedHeaRd
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 02, 2020, 01:32:06 pm
B4151:
A4148 -> A34/A4148
B4158_S -> B4138_S


B4152:
Move A454 to the center of the roundabout


B4156:
A462_S is off
Move A462_N to the center of the roundabout


B4164:
A40 -> A40/A449


B4166:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.508787&lon=-2.017702


B4170:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.495604&lon=-2.015519


B4176:
Truncate at east end to B4177_E? It's just a onw-way street TO the route.


B4179:
Split B4180 into 2 wps


B4186:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.449301&lon=-2.132898


B4192:
Move Rid to a junction and rename it


B4193:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.340909&lon=-2.261861


B4197:
B4204_E is off



61.55% of the English routes are reviewed now! 1503 routes done!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 03, 2020, 07:57:55 am
B4200:
Move A4038 to the center of the roundabout


B4203:
B4204 is off
B4214 -> ToB4214

B4205:
A44_E is off
A44_W -> A44/A449

B4208:
Move A417 to the center of the roundabout
Split A438 into 2 wps
PeaRd -> PicRd_N


B4210:
A4148 -> A34/A4148 or A34/A454


B4211:
BackLn -> BearLn


B4213:
Move A417 to the center of the roundabout, B4208


B4214:
B4203 -> ToB4203
Cre -> TheCre ?
A438 is off


B4217:
A4540 -> A456/A4540


B4220:
+X533836 is off
A4103_W is off
A4103_E is off


B4224:
A40_E is off
Exceeds limits b/n WooRd and +X639568


B4228:
+X237157 is off


B4230:
A438 is off


B4232:
Replace eastern end point B4503 by wp at A449 south of the church. Confirmed by OSM, GM and GSV


B4260:
Move A40_E to the center of the roundabout


B4284:
A4540 -> A456/A4540


B4289old:
Merge into main route? It's just a short concurrency with A4289
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 03, 2020, 02:30:22 pm
B4208:
Split A438 into 2 wps
Definite overlap!
Quote
B4208:
PeaRd -> PicRd_N
??? Not only is the road Peach Road, but PicRd_N is another point, so this would be a duplicate label. Was there something about these two points that wasn't rename one as the other?
Quote
B4232:
Replace eastern end point B4503 by wp at A449 south of the church. Confirmed by OSM, GM and GSV
GM has the segment you suggest (correctly) marked as B4219 - so actually it confirms what I have, not your change. I spent some time sorting that area out when drafting as signage is confusing. The one GSV sign (pointing to the main bit of B4232) is not only old, but directly contradicts the data the authority that erected it has on what road is which - I'm going to suggest they put the wrong road in brackets, which would be a fairly simple mistake for a signmaker to make.
Quote
B4289old:
Merge into main route? It's just a short concurrency with A4289
Any other A road, sure. However it's a single numbered route (forming a box around Swindon) that changes what system it's part of. cf things like Ax(M) breaking up Ax routes, but with more certainty as an argument can be made that they are part of the A road, whereas the A4289 is explicitly not B4289.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 03, 2020, 02:49:39 pm
B4208:
Split A438 into 2 wps
Definite overlap!

Fine to me if you don't wanna split it but.... I think it's not overlapping ;)

(http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3227.0;attach=240;image)



Quote
B4208:
PeaRd -> PicRd_N
??? Not only is the road Peach Road, but PicRd_N is another point, so this would be a duplicate label. Was there something about these two points that wasn't rename one as the other?

I really don't get what I made here....  :pan:
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 06, 2020, 12:29:20 pm
B4347:
B4348 is off


B4348:
A49 is off
B4352 is off


B4360:
B4529 is off


B4361:
B4362_W is off
A44_W -> A44/A4112_W
A44_E -> A44/A4112_E


B4362:
Split off A49/A456 wp into two wps ?


B4362low:
DunLn is off


B4363:
BliLn is off
B4202 -> B4201


B4364:
Exceeds limits b/n OakRd and +X230358


B4367:
B4368 is off


B4368:
B4378 is off
ParkLn is off


B4373:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.537581&lon=-2.421013


B4379:
A5 is off


B4380:
Solit A458_W into two wps
A5 -> A5_W

B4385:
Exceeds limits b/n A488 and +X228724


B4393:
A458 is off


B4397:
A5 is off
Move A528 between the junctions


B4399:
TheStrMile -> TheStrMile_W or ChaRd
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 08, 2020, 07:11:45 am
B4424:
UppFerLn -> UppFryLn as we did for B1190 etc


B4425:
HawHill is off


B4438:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.462834&lon=-1.713245 leading to nex M42 i/C and parking of exhibition center


B4439:
RowGrn -> RowGre ? or FinRd


B4442:
Move A404 to the center of the roundabout


B4447:
GarRd -> GarRd_W


B4449:
A4095 is off


B4451:
M40 is off-bridge


B4452:
A445 is off


B4457:
A44/A4112 is off


B4465:
A4174 -> ToA4174
A432 -> ToA432


B4477:
A40 is off-bridge


B4479:
A44 is off


B4493:
Move A417_E to the center of the roundabout


B4494:
SheLeaLn is off
+X875553 is off
OxfRd -> OxfRd_N


B4495:
A4144_S is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 08, 2020, 12:57:54 pm
B4503:
Have you missed the B4232 issue or am I wrong?

B4232:
Replace eastern end point B4503 by wp at A449 south of the church. Confirmed by OSM, GM and GSV


B4505:
LycRd is off
ChiRd -> HighSt


B4506:
Exceeds limits b/n A4251 and MonDr


B4508:
LonRd is off


B4504:
A448 -> A448_W


B4517:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.534028&lon=-2.038516 to match A4037's OckHillRd wp


B4521:
A4137 is off


B4525:
A43 is off


B4526:
A4074 is off


B4529:
Delete the empty line
A44 -> A44/A4112


B4534blu:
TadLn is off


B4540:
Move B4541 to the center of the roundabout


B4542:
Move HayRd to the center of the roundabout


B4553:
OSM and GM have a different routing b/n TadLn and B4534_N. The street of current routing is visible on Satellite views but interrupted on OSM and GM.


B4580:


B4580:
B5069_N is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 08, 2020, 02:07:48 pm
B4503:
Have you missed the B4232 issue or am I wrong?
Quote
B4232:
Replace eastern end point B4503 by wp at A449 south of the church. Confirmed by OSM, GM and GSV
GM has the segment you suggest (correctly) marked as B4219 - so actually it confirms what I have, not your change. I spent some time sorting that area out when drafting as signage is confusing. The one GSV sign (pointing to the main bit of B4232) is not only old, but directly contradicts the data the authority that erected it has on what road is which - I'm going to suggest they put the wrong road in brackets, which would be a fairly simple mistake for a signmaker to make.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 08, 2020, 02:12:39 pm
B4553:
OSM and GM have a different routing b/n TadLn and B4534_N. The street of current routing is visible on Satellite views but interrupted on OSM and GM.
Recent diversion coupled with the housing development.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 08, 2020, 02:18:26 pm
B4503:
Have you missed the B4232 issue or am I wrong?

Ah, sorry. I didn't check for an answer today because it was so obviously wrong....... based on maps :pan:
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 10, 2020, 04:07:47 pm
Scotland again:

SCT B1343
Rename B1377 to B1347/B1377

SCT B1345
Split A198_W into 2 WP

SCT B6352
Rename B6396_W to B6396


SCT B6357
Move A7 between the 2 intersections, or split the WP

SCT B6369
Start at B6368?

SCT B6396
Rename B6352_W to B6352

SCT B6397
Add a WP at C88/C90?

SCT B6399
Rename A7 to ToA7

SCT B6400
Move A68 between the intersections or split WP

SCT B6453
Rename B6459 to B6359

SCT B6471
Rename A6093 to A6093/A6137

Done until B7000.

   
 




Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 16, 2020, 04:20:36 pm
SCT B7003
A6094 is off
Rename A701 to A701/A703

SCT B7012
Rename A725 to A725_Auc

SCT B7013
A713 is off

SCT B7015
New WP at Almond Link Road (link to A899)

SCT B7038
Rename B751 to M77
Add B7061 to HB

SCT B7049
Rename B777 to B777_E

SCT B7079
A75/A712 is off, rename to A712 and move WP at the intersection

SCT B7080
Remove WP A78

Done until B8000.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 17, 2020, 03:06:28 pm
B4632:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.056182&lon=-1.849469 shortcut to A44


B4633:
A40 is off
A4019 is off


B4696:
A4114 -> B4114


B4696:
BroLn is off



68.97% of the English B routes are reviewed :)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 17, 2020, 03:09:13 pm
100% of the Welsh B routes are reviewed.
62.68% of the Scotish B routes are reviewed.

Only 247 Scotish routes are left but still 758 English routes....  :o
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 18, 2020, 08:44:39 am
B5000:
FaiHill -> BriSt or MarSt according to OSM and GSV
A51 -> A513, take coorinates from existing A513 wp


B5006:
A514 is off


B5009:
A5_N is off
A5_N -> A5/A483


B5010:
A6005_E is off
A50 -> A6/A50


B5012:
CocLn is off


B5013:
A460 -> A460/A513


B5017:
A515_N is off
A515_S is off


B5020:
EtwRd -> KipDr
RadLn_W is off
A52 is off


B5023:
A517 is off
A5012 is off


B5024:
Not indicated on OSM, GM, 2019 GSV nor 2009 GSV
A517 is off


B5026:
B5415 is off
Split A53 into two wps


B5027:
A34 -> A34/A51


B5029:
A521 is off


B5032:
B5033 is off


B5033:
A515 is off


B5034:
A515_S is off


B5035:
A515 is off (split off from B5034's wp)


B5038lon:
A5035 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 18, 2020, 10:43:45 am
Only 247 Scotish routes are left but still 758 English routes....  :o
Unsurprising - there's 'only' 663 (20%) routes in Scotland, 276 (8%) in Wales, but 2443 (72%) in England - you took over 2.5 times the workload of Panda and at that point done about 2.4 times as much (1685 vs 692), so having about thrice the work still to go makes sense.

By area, England's only 57% of Great Britain and Scotland 34% - however by population England is 87% of the population (Greater London alone has the population of Wales and Scotland combined) and Scotland 8%. England's density is 6 times higher (as well as the country being bigger) meaning far more routes are inevitable - there's a whole lot of empty in the Highlands.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 18, 2020, 11:00:18 am
you took over 2.5 times the workload of Panda

I thought it's less than twice looking at the mileage.

ENG reviewer: michih (11,800mi)
SCT reviewer: panda80 (4,400mi)
WLS reviewer: panda80 (1,700mi)

But we are almost done :)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 18, 2020, 11:21:09 am
I thought it's less than twice looking at the mileage.
Well, in terms of routes, you took on 2.5 times the amount. But yes you are right, it's much more acceptable when it comes to mileage (non-Central Scotland, and Central Wales, being empty help greatly with that mileage being not very bad for review - lots of large gaps between points). Of course it depends on average wpt distance and I can't be bothered to calculate that!
Quote
But we are almost done :)
970 routes is only 'almost' when we're dealing with 3380ish routes (as England is now 2442)!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 19, 2020, 04:51:12 am
70% is more or less almost done ;)



B5055:
A515 is off
Move A6/A619 to the center of the roundabout
Since B5055 does not end at the roundabout, I'd add a new wp to A6


B5057:
Split A6 into two wps
A632 is off


B5059:
A515 is off


B5061:
WelRd is indicated being Holyhead Road on OSM and GM. I'd call it ToM54


B5062:
Move A5191/A5112 to the center of the roundabout
Move A49 to the center of the roundabout
A5191/A5112 -> A5112/A5191


B5065:
A41 is off
BroRd is off
A49_N is off


B5066:
A51_E is off
A51_W is off
A34 -> A34/A5187


B5069:
A483 -> A483/A495
A5 -> A5/A483


B5069Mal:
Move A41 to the center of the roundabout


B5070:
A5 -> A5/A483


B5071:
WynLn is off
A534/A5015 is off
A534/A5015 -> A534/A5019


B5074:
A51_S -> A51/A530
A51_N -> A51/A534


B5076:
RemSt -> RemSt_E or move the wp to the roundabout ?
A530 is off


B5077:
ChaLn is off, sync concurrent B5078


B5081:
PluMoorRd is off
A50 is off


B5082:
A50 is off


B5087:
PriLn is off


B5090:
A538 is off


B5093:
B5176 -> B5167


B5094:
Route doesn't end at A5102/A5149 wp, split it off and add a new wp to A5149


B5095:
Move A5149_S to the center of the roundabout
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 19, 2020, 09:43:40 am
B5117:
B5219 is off


B5120:
Move M1 onto the bridge


B5124:
A583 is off


B5130:
Move SanLn to the center of the roundabout


B5132:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.313493&lon=-2.960397 and matching wp to A41
A56_W is off


B5133:
B5151_S is off
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.294625&lon=-3.028311 leading to A540/B5134 junction


B5136:
A540_N is off


B5138:
A540 is off


B5144:
A551/A5028 -> A551, A551's wp also needs to be renamed


B5145:
A551/A5028 -> A551_E, A551's wp also needs to be renamed
A551 -> A551_W


B5147:
A552 -> A552/A5227


B5148:
A552 -> A552/A5029
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 20, 2020, 01:55:58 am
B5151:
A5027 is off


B5155:
There was a reconstruction at north end. A557 does not match the route's wp. Please check A557 and A558 wp positions too


B5156:
StaRd_E -> StaRd_W


B5158:
B5159_N is off
B5160 is off
LockLn is off
LockLn -> MossLn
B5213 is off
Split route into 2 routes since there is a long concurrency with A6144 - >50%


B5160:
B5161 is off
Move A6144 between the branches


B5161:
B5163 is off
Move A538 to the center of the roundabout


B5163:
A538 is off


B5164:
A538/A560 is off


B5166:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.332926&lon=-2.227671 to match B5358's WilmRd_S
Is the route in Sale via School Road or via Sibson Road and Springfield Road? If the latter, at wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.424427&lon=-2.326575
Move A538 to the center of the roundabout
A6144_Ash is off
B5168 does not intersect in HB. Rename or add route.


B5171:
Move B5180 between the two carriageways
B5178 is off


B5175:
A562 -> A562/A5039


B5178:
CheAve is off
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.369555&lon=-2.722571 leading to A557/A562 junction


B5179:
A562 is off


B5181:
Move A537 to the center of the roundabout
Is A538 really concurrent? If so, A537 -> A537/A538


B5186:
A5047 doesn't intersect in HB


B5187:
A580 doesn't intersect in HB @ A580_S


B5192:
MillLn is off


B5193:
A565_S is off


B5195:
Exceeds limits b/n A59 and A5147_N


B5198:
A57 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 22, 2020, 02:32:49 pm
B5201:
Exceeds limits b/n B5203 and A570_S
B5205 is off


B5203:
B5205 is off


B5205:
A571 is off


B5206:
A5209 is off


B5207:
Exceeds limits b/n A572/A579 and A574
A574 is off
A573_N is off
Move A49 between the two junctions which are virtually one junction
A571 is off


B5208:
A5267 is off


B5211:
We are - both - not consistent with the one-point-per-interchange rule, see M60 and A572_E. My latest trend is to merge them when it's not really necessary like e.g. FRA-IDF N104/N19/D316 http://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=3568.msg18298#msg18298. The concurrency of A572 and A575 within the interchange is another reason for merge into one wp


B5215:
A577 -> A577/A579


B5224:
Are you sure that the segment b/n A5014 and A5067 is dedicated as B road? OSM and GM don't indicate it like this. It's just a one-way street TO B5224


B5225:
B6142_E -> A6143_E


B5234:
Exceeds limits b/n B5014 and +X378763


B5237:
A578 is off


B5238:
I'd move A49/A557_W to http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.541079&lon=-2.631269
A49/A557_W -> A49/A577_W
A49/A557_E -> A49/A577_E


B5239:
A49 is off
A49 -> A49/A5209


B5240:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.545988&lon=-2.833995 leading to A506/A570 junction


B5241:
A5209 is off


B5244:
Move A565 to the center of the roundabout


B5246:
A59_N is off


76.63% in England are reviewed
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 22, 2020, 03:38:16 pm
B5252:
EusLn -> EuxLn_W


B5258:
A587 is off
WhiCarLn -> WhiCarrLn


B5260:
KirRd is off


B5261:
A584 is off


B5266:
+X748882 is off


B5269:
Split A585 into two wps


B5270:
RamCou -> RamCt ?


B5271:
Gill is off
Gill -> LinHill


B5272:
A6 is off


B5281:
A590 is off and I think it might even be moved between the one-way streets. The northbound one is not where OSM indicates but starts at the roundabout (https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1955706,-3.0923355,3a,16.1y,37.4h,90.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sE_vPDd9ciXj6d-QSA-eBdg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).


B5284:
A5074 is off


B5285:
A593 is off


B5286:
A593 is off


B5287:
Move A591_S to the center of the roundabout


B5288:
+X437114 is off


B5289:
ChaHowRd -> ChaHoweRd


B5290:
A588 is off


B5299:
+X988195 is off
Split A595_W into two wps
B5303 -> B5305
ToM6 -> Buc
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 23, 2020, 01:05:45 pm
B5300:
+X663465 is off


B5301:
A595 is off
+X913903 is off


B5302:
Ble is off
Split A596_W into two wps

B5305:
Split A595 into two wps


B5306:
Move A595/A597 to the center of the roundabout
ComEnd -> Pica? OSM+GM don't indicate a street name, the village Pica is signed according to GSV
A595 -> A595_S

B5308:
Split A50/A535 into 2 wps since there are two roundabouts?


B5312:
Move LivRd to the center of the roundabout


B5320:
A592 is off


B5321:
A6 is off   


B5331:
A523 is off


B5334/B5335:
A51/A530 -> A51/A534 or A51/A534 -> A51/A530 ?


B5339:
A5040 doesn't intersect in HB and the position is a little bit odd, please check!


B5345:
+X266242 is off


B5356:
Split A49 into two wps


B5358:
WilmRd_S -> WilRd_S


B5364:
A41/A525 -> A41/A49 ?
B5395 -> B5395/B5476

B5367:
Split B5368 into two wps, two roundabouts


B5368:
Split B5369 into two wps


B5369:
B5370 doesn't intersect in HB, B5370's wp is called WatView


B5376:
Move A49_N to the center of the roundabout


B5377:
A588 is off


B5370:
A500 -> A500/A527


B5380:
A47 is off


B5385:
A5 is off


B5388:
A509 is off


B5391:
SchLn is off


B5392:
Split A34 into two wps


B5393:
A56 is off


B5394:
A56 is off


B5395:
A41_S -> A41/A49_S
A41/A49 -> A41/A49_N


B5398:
Move A525 to the center of the roundabout
B5395 -> B5395/B5476
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 23, 2020, 01:59:41 pm
B5407:
A5147 is off


B5410:
The segment south of School Road is closed since anytime between 2013 and 2016. Is it still dedicated as B road?


B5417:
BedLn -> BeeLn


B5419:
Move A5080_W to the center of the roundabout
A562 -> A557/A562


B5463:
A550 is off


B5465:
OSM has a different route, confirmed by GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4005107,-2.1555108,3a,16.9y,318.1h,96.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVxROzcRKBRltcm7m6eFOqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656); GM does not indicate the route at all


B5470:
+X250405 is off
A624 doesn't intersect in HB


B5472:
A500 -> A500/A531


B5476:
A41/A525 -> A41/A49 ?


B5477:
A49_S is off


B5569:
Split A50 into two wps


B5704:
ParkSt is off
Split A5/A4012 into two wps
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 24, 2020, 08:48:50 am
B6001:
A625_N is off


B6004:
A60 is off


B6012:
A6 is off


B6014:
Move B6028 to the center of the roundabout
Move B6039 to the center of the roundabout
A615 is off


B6020:
A611 is off


B6030:
A6117 is off
A60 is off


B6033:
A6009 -> A60/A6009


B6034:
A616_S is off


B6043:
A619_E is off


B6044:
StaRd -> StaRd_N
A634_W should be split into two wps, split off B6045


B6049:
Split A623 into two wps
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 24, 2020, 10:09:12 am
Quote
B5334/B5335:
A51/A530 -> A51/A534 or A51/A534 -> A51/A530 ?
I think you mean B5334 and B5338. The short answer is no. The long answer is:
the B5334 is the old A530, and the roundabout labelled 'A51/A530' has three main arms (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0783195,-2.5112897,3a,27.2y,33.13h,89.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq8OCmwtSouq-xlboRrr3Tw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192): A51 to the north (junior partner in concurrency: A534), A530, and A51 to the south (junior partners in concurrency: A530 and A534). Hence A51/A530.
the B5338 is the old A534, and the roundabout labelled 'A51/A530' has three main arms (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0692576,-2.4949473,3a,75y,35.84h,91.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRgKSDjVGHQ2kYo0oIxHXYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656): A51 to the north (junior partners in concurrency: A530 and A534), A534, and A51 to the south (junior partner in concurrency: A530). Hence A51/A534.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 24, 2020, 11:06:43 am
Quote
B5410: The segment south of School Road is closed since anytime between 2013 and 2016. Is it still dedicated as B road?
Truncated, though it is still dedicated as a B Road.

The former route is slated to reopen for non-motorised traffic (that its not even open to that now is a key reason why I truncated) with a new-build parallel road constructed at some point.
Quote
B5465: OSM has a different route, confirmed by GSV; GM does not indicate the route at all
This route has been changed recently (the signs only appearing this month, though the classification changed a year before)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 24, 2020, 02:38:03 pm
B6053:
A618 is off


B6054:
A61 -> A61/A6102


B6060:
B6410 is off


B6062:
New shaping point @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.342883&lon=-1.984360 ? One might argue that the route exceeds...


B6069:
A621 -> A625


B6070:
A61 -> A61/A6135


B6073:
A61_S -> A61/A6135_S
A61_N -> A61/A6135_N


B6074:
A61_E -> A57/A61


B6088:
FoxValWay -> FoxVlyWay ?


B6089:
Move A6123 to the center of the roundabout


B6090:
HigRd is off


B6094:
CocLn -> CocLn_S


B6096:
wp at Hemingfield Road to match A6195's HemRd wp


B6098:
StaRd -> StaRd_W


B6099:
A6133 is off




86.46% of the routes in England reviewed!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 25, 2020, 12:20:31 pm
B6104:
A560/A6017 is off
A626 is off
A560_W -> A560/A6017
A560/A6017 -> A560_E
A627/A6107 -> A627


B6105:
A628 is far off


B6109:
A62 is off
B6108 -> B6107


B6112:
A640 is off


B6113:
Split A58/A672 into two wps


B6114:
ToA6025 -> EllBri
ChuLn is off


B6116:
A629 is off


B6117:
A642_W is off
A62/A651 is off


B6120:
A649 -> A643/A649


B6123:
A638 is off
Split A650 into two wps
B6217 -> B6127


B6126:
B6127 is off
Move A58 between the branches


B6127:
A650/A6029 is off


B6129:
Move A638 to the overpass


B6130:
B6236 is off


B6135:
A639 is off
Split A642 into two wps


B6136:
Move A656 to the center of the roundabout


B6137:
Exceeds limits b/n A63_E and A656


B6139:
A611 is off


B6144:
A6177 is off
A629 is off
A6033 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 25, 2020, 04:07:10 pm
SCT B8007
Add spur on Pier Road to HB?

SCT B8008
Rename A830_Ara to A830_Ari and ToA830_Ara to ToA830_Ari

SCT B8045
Are you sure about the endpoint? OSM gives it a little bit souther.

SCT B8060
Are you sure that it does not go farther south from Leu? Leu is also off.


SCT B8062
Add a visible WP at C465? Maybe some will use this road between A824_W and that point.

SCT B8070
Rename End to Bre?

SCT B8079
Move A9_S to the north, at the intersection with the branch leading to it.

SCT B8085, SCT B8086, SCT B8087
Are you sure this routes exists? I could find no clue about them, neither in OSM, GSM oder GM.

Done until B9000.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 25, 2020, 05:40:27 pm
SCT B9001
B992 is off.
Separate WP A920.

SCT B9002
Rename A941 to A941_E

SCT B9006
Move A9 to the intersection to it.

SCT B9021
PorHar is off. It should be placed further to the SE.

SCT B9082
Are you sure it turns into B9083 at the north end? OSM shows it further as B9082, GM as B9083…

SCT B9093
A981 is off.

Done until B9100.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 26, 2020, 04:30:08 am
B6156:
A657 is off


B6160:
EshLn is off
+X665912 is off
A684 is off

B6161:
A658 might be considered being off
FarPark is off


B6164:
A59 is off


B6165:
B6451 is off


B6167:
A626 -> A626/A6188


B6168:
A693 -> A693/A6076


B6170:
Is (or was) CheHillRd a B6175 branch? Direction signs are quite old and patched... 1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4789367,-2.067761,3a,20.3y,230.2h,92.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCJuYELc4mV5NZl4acovFig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), 2 (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4651023,-2.0772678,3a,16.9y,277.5h,86.04t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4bbqMGbOMBSUrFue0cDXLA!2e0!5s20190801T000000!7i16384!8i8192) but it was already like that in 2009.


B6172:
A6068 -> A6068_W


B6174:
A57 is off
Does it extend to A6018 as indicated on OSM and GM? I couldn't find anything on GSV though but it would make sense if it would be dedicated as B road.


B6176:
Tweak the position of A635 a little bit
B6175 doesn't intersect in HB


B6178:
A6 is off
A57 is off


B6179:
A38 -> A38/A61 with suffix


B6184:
Route is not indicated on OSM nor GM


B6186:
Just a question about the wp order... There is a one-way street from wp 3 to 2. Do we consider that the road could be driven in the right direction when we define the wp order? I would not consider it (there are some cases in France) especially because it's possible that a route passes more than one situations like this and once e.g. a one-way street in the opposite direction. But I think that you might have mentioned something like that long ago...


B6187:
A576 -> A576/A5066


B6197:
A672 is off and I'd split it into two wps


B6198:
A665/A667 is off



90.27% in England are done - and 88.69% in Scotland!
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 26, 2020, 10:15:18 am
B6204:
A6172 does not intersect in HB


B6205:
A673 -> A673/A676


B6206:
A673 -> A673/A676


B6207:
Is not indicated on OSM nor GM


B6213:
B6214 is off


B6216:
A58_E -> A56/A58


B6222:
QueParkRd is off


B6223:
A671 -> A640


B6225:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.611124&lon=-2.112948


B6228:
CowBrow -> EavLn_S


B6229:
Move A6 to the center of the roundabout


B6236:
A679 is off
It's not signed on A680 and I think that the one-way street (Hud Hey Road) is not a B road but Brook Street only. Move wp to the junction.


B6241:
A5085 -> A5085/A6063


B6245:
ChuSt -> ChuSt_S
+X496311 is off
A666 is off


B6249:
A682 -> A56/A682
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 26, 2020, 12:25:29 pm
B6251:
A59 is off


B6254:
A6 is off
FallKirk is off
FallKirk -> BorRd
Split A65_E into two wps


B6255:
+X203164 is off


B6257:
A685 is off


B6259:
A66 is off
+X948517 is off


B6263:
A69 is off


B6265:
B6265Lin is off
BroLn -> BroGate


B6265kei:
GraLn -> BanLn


B6266:
A58_W -> A58/A6060


B6271:
B6272 is off


B6274:
New wp @ http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.545726&lon=-1.784144
Split A67 into two wps


B6275:
Move A67 a little bit to the west
B6277 is off


B6277:
A66 is off
LeaLn is off
Are you sure that we need this (https://www.google.com/maps/@54.6430817,-2.1333967,3a,75y,20.59h,81.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFeiCucgRCQLSp5zvh5Sd9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) wp? :D Why "ShiRow" for Shining Row and not New Holme or Izalea Cottage or Riverside? Or New for Newbiggin?
HowHill is off
A689 is off


B6278:
Move A68 a little bit to the south


B6279:
AllSt -> BarSt


B6280:
A67 -> A67_W


B6285:
A684 is off


B6287:
A167 is off. Move it to the overpass but it's not a GSJ. There are no signs at th junction east of the overpass and I don't know whether it leads to the north or to the south. I tend to extend it to the northern A167 junction and a spur to the southern junction.


B6290:
Move A167/A693 to the center of the roundabout
A167 -> A167_S


B6292:
A665 -> A665/A6053


B6294:
A689 is off
+X469806 is off


B6295:
A689 is off


B6296:
A689 is off



94.11% done
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 26, 2020, 03:22:39 pm
SCT B9101
Rename B9091 to B9090.

SCT B9104
A96_W is off
A96/A98 is off

SCT B9119
A97 is off

SCT B9144
Are you sure it exists?

SCT B9152
Rename A9/A96 to A9/A96

SCT B9171
Add the WP at B940

SCT B9172
Are you sure it exists? OSM shows it as A920, GM as A97, GSV with no road indicative…

SCT B9173
OSM shows it as A97, so does GM

SCT B9174
A9_S is off

Scotland finished :) Should I review also Cayman Islands?
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 27, 2020, 08:56:01 am
Scotland finished :) Should I review also Cayman Islands?
I thought you wanted to do Moldova?

You could do the Scottish National Tourist Routes (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=miles&sys=sctntr).
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 27, 2020, 11:09:34 am
Scotland finished :) Should I review also Cayman Islands?
I thought you wanted to do Moldova?

You could do the Scottish National Tourist Routes (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=miles&sys=sctntr).

I also think that sctntr would be the best next step so that it can be activated with gbnb. mdar is not yet ready, is it?

Probably best to do gbnb in Scotland first and by then it should be ready. I need to check how it works in the browser and all that.

And cyma is small... a quickie... why not... if it's ready.... ?
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 27, 2020, 12:31:52 pm
B6300:
A690 is off


B6305:
Move A695/A6079 to the center of the roundabout
B6306 is off


B6308:
Move A692 to the center of the roundabout
Split B6309 into two wps


B6309:
Split A69 into two wps ?
A694 is off but should also be split into two wps


B6310:
A692 is off


B6314:
A694 is off


B6315:
Split A695 into two wps


B6317:
A694 is off


B6318:
ParkRd is off
Caw -> ShiHill
EdgGre -> Caw which is just 1 1/2 mi away
Vin is off
Cannot find Vin anywhere -> OnceBre ?
FourTon -> Fourstones (check both sides of the direction sign) -> Fou :P


B6320:
New -> Gre which is just 4 mi away


B6323:
A696 is off


B6324:
Extends at east end according to OSM and GM. I had a very quick look on GSV but couldn't find an evidence
A1 -> A1/A167


B6341:
+X410436 is off
+X524956 is off
+X934737 is off


B6342:
A68/A6079 is off
Split A696 into two wps


B6345:
Ave -> ParkRd


B6348:
Pow -> Lil which is just 3mi away


B6349:
NorBank -> ChuSt
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 27, 2020, 02:01:45 pm
mdar is not yet ready, is it?
It's ready.

sctntr shouldn't take too long though.
Quote
And cyma is small... a quickie... why not... if it's ready.... ?
It's not ready - I think it needs to go as an unsigned North American system. I'll have a closer look tomorrow with streetview now there. A review wouldn't hurt, but I don't want to waste time if is completely unsigned.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 27, 2020, 05:18:34 pm
I will do sctntr then. I thought about cyma just to finish all of UK systems. I'm waiting for you then to tell me when to start with it.
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: panda80 on April 28, 2020, 05:58:16 am
Scotland National Tourist Routes:

SCT BorTR
B6367 is off
Rename B6399 to ToB6399

SCT ClyVlyTR
B7018 is off

SCT MorFirTR
Rename B9161 to B865

The other ones were fine. The thread name has to be changed to include also sctnr (like the thread for NOR).
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 28, 2020, 08:04:51 am
B6350:
A697 -> A697/A698


B6353:
B6354_S is off


B6376:
A631/A634 is off, split it into two wps


B6382:
Move CowRd to the center of the roundabout


B6383:
Move A56 to the center of the roundabout


B6387:
A6075 is off
A1 -> A1/A57


B6388:
A61 -> A61_N


B6389:
Does it exist? It's not indicated on OSM, GM nor GSV


B6391:
A666 is off
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 28, 2020, 10:53:25 am
B6403:
A52_E is off


B6413:
+X255613 is off
PotBank is off


B6417:
A616/A618 is off


B6421:
Move A645_E to Hall Street as inicated on OSM, GM and GSV (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6740578,-1.3510386,3a,75y,68.09h,77.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0R3pD0fpoduZm7_cb7imgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).


B6422:
BihLn -> BilLn


B6428:
Split A61 into two wps
Tweak position of A629


B6431:
A635 is off


B6433:
A642 is off


B6441:
Move A610_E to the center of the roundabout


B6446:
A65 is off



97.91% of the routes are done - only two small interations left
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 28, 2020, 12:18:56 pm
B6451:
A659 is off


B6461Oll:
I couldn't find any evidence of existance on OSM, GM nor GSV
If it exists, A616 needs to be renamed to A616/A6075


B6462:
Split A628 into two wps
A629_N is off


B6463:
Move A60/A634 to the center of the roundabout


B6465:
A623 is off


B6474:
A639 is off


B6475:
Split A642 into two wps


B6481:
A639 -> A639_N
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 28, 2020, 03:33:16 pm
B6521:
End_W and End_E? I think you might split the route here!? What's the story behind?


B6527:
Move A680 to the center of the roundabout
A680 -> A680_S

B6530:
B6321 -> B6321/B6529


B6532:
A693 -> A693/A6076


B6535:
A678 is off
StHulRd -> StHubRd


B6536:
A575 -> A575/A666
A666 -> RaiLn
A579 -> A575/A579


B6539:
A57/A61 -> A57/A61_S
A61(8) -> A57/A61_N


B6540:
A50 -> A6/A50


B6541:
A66 -> A66/A1032


B6543:
A61 is not a GSJ but just one ramp. I'd move the wp to the roundabout where the ramp begins. And call it ToA61 or ToA61/A619
A619 -> A619_N


B6546:
Move A629/A6135 to the center of the roundabout


B6918:
A1 -> A1/A167


Studland Motor Road
Seems to be unclassified (https://www.roads.org.uk/articles/studland-motor-road) = no B road!?



Ich habe fertig! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub1zsUD7UNQ)
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: si404 on April 28, 2020, 05:50:26 pm
Studland Motor Road
Seems to be unclassified (https://www.roads.org.uk/articles/studland-motor-road) = no B road!?
It's a bizarre unique thing, a bit like the Mersey tunnels in gbna. When it opened they extended B roads to it, but couldn't make it a B road due the legislation that built it (also at that time there were no tolls on classified roads).
Title: Re: gbnb: Great Britain B Roads
Post by: michih on April 30, 2020, 06:33:48 am
Activation with next site update: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/3822