Author Topic: WI: WI113 has a ferry  (Read 863 times)

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Offline mapcat

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WI: WI113 has a ferry
« on: August 22, 2022, 02:57:31 pm »
The route as drafted includes a ferry across a lake on the Wisconsin River. Should be split into 2 routes there.
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Offline SSOWorld

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2022, 08:01:49 pm »
https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/includepts.php#ferry

Where is there a more convenient shorter crossing nearby?  This is just the river.  it's also short, it's free (unlike Cape may Lewes or the Washington state ferries).  Just because it's a ferry doesn't disqualify the crossing.

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Offline neroute2

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2022, 08:32:47 pm »
Although it's usual to split routes at ferries, the manual does not require this.

Offline mapcat

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2022, 09:52:19 pm »
Although it's usual to split routes at ferries, the manual does not require this.

I appreciate the clarification.
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Offline oscar

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2022, 11:04:07 pm »
We might re-think our practice of routinely splitting routes at ferry crossings, no matter how short. One thought that occurred to me while we were discussing IL 108, which includes a similar short ferry link: Even if we develop a separate branch of the project to cover ferry routes, its developer(s) might give low priority for ferry crossings as short as WI 113's and IL 108's. The priority might go instead to long ferry routes like much of the Alaska Marine Highway, British Columbia, and Newfoundland ferry systems, and especially interstate, inter-provincial, and international routes (like some in Europe) that connect different highway routes rather than just fill highway route gaps.

Especially if new ferry route systems become "select" systems, not intended to cover all ferry routes, it might take awhile if ever to cover WI 113's ferry gap. Something to be said for just treating that gap as part of WI 113, at least at the option of the maintainer.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2022, 11:06:09 pm by oscar »

Offline yakra

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2022, 11:32:08 pm »
Manual or not, it's been SOP.
I'd count this as one among several other items that have taken a while to update from the CHM legacy manual.
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Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2022, 02:57:53 am »
I wouldn't be opposed to allow 'small' gap ferries to be 'merged' into the route files.

Would allow me to merge the two parts of Ontario SH-579 together.
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?units=miles&r=on.sh579
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?units=miles&r=on.sh579gar

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2022, 06:13:27 am »
If we merge the small gap ferries, I would still support having points at the end of these ferries.  (From what duke87 has told me, the seasonal ferry at the east end of NY 74 is not part of it so my clinch there would be unaffected.)

Offline michih

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2022, 01:12:14 pm »
https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/includepts.php#ferry

Where is there a more convenient shorter crossing nearby?  This is just the river.  it's also short, it's free (unlike Cape may Lewes or the Washington state ferries).  Just because it's a ferry doesn't disqualify the crossing.

The rule is about adding wps for (roads to) nearby ferry crossings on a continuous route.

In general, ferry crossings are NOT roads. I think that there should be no room for discussion. Just split it. Period.

Offline Duke87

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2022, 06:49:15 pm »
Manual or not, it's been SOP.

Indeed, and we should be consistent about it. "Break routes at ferries, we only map roads" is a straightforward objective rule, and it cleanly allows for ferries to be mapped separately later under a different fork of the project dedicated to mapping ferry routes specifically without creating any overlap between forks. Any form of "Break routes at ferries, except if..." opens the door to "why this and not that" and we don't need to go there.

Concur with OP that WI113 needs to be broken in two, therefore.


Offline SSOWorld

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2022, 02:41:38 am »
map roads? or highways? 

Either way we look at it, it's a debate of a question that has zero perfect solutions so we take one of them.  Exactly the same as the "definition of a clinch" where one might consider seeing the road as a clinch (sight clinching) whereas another does not consider it clinched until they have a vehicle with wheels and them behind the wheel make contact with every inch of the designated route including ferries and border crossings and if the road is changed the clinch is lost.  Given that, as we've broken up short and long ferry routes alike (river crossings in IL and US 9/US 10/Washing SRs) - the wi113 entry should be split based on general conventions followed in TM.

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Offline Jim

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2022, 08:51:03 pm »
The manual has now been updated with a rule to require following our standard practice of splitting routes at ferries.

https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/sysnew.php#developwpt

Offline Jim

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2022, 10:04:24 pm »
I have the update from Highway63 doing the ferry splits in WI, but I'd like to have someone besides me get it into GitHub and double-check the changes to CSVs and so on.  Anyone up for this task?

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2022, 10:53:57 am »
I can at this point presuming no one else has volunteered yet.

Offline Jim

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Re: WI: WI113 has a ferry
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2022, 12:00:05 pm »
Thanks, sent files along.