Africa Master Thread

Highway Data Discussion > In-progress Highway Systems & Work

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si404:

--- Quote from: neroute2 on June 29, 2019, 07:07:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: si404 on June 17, 2019, 05:04:01 am ---
--- Quote from: michih on June 15, 2019, 04:23:17 pm ---Shouldn't musm be a tier 1 system instead of tier 3
--- End quote ---
Absolutely not - don't let the name fool you, these aren't actually motorways as you or I would see them.

--- End quote ---
They look to be up to at least Mexican toll road standards (north end of http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=mexbc.mex001d for example), and in many parts British motorway standards (which allow roundabouts on lower-traffic routes).

--- End quote ---
fair point. However
1) that Mexican road doesn't seem that bad - no median crossings or anything like that.

2) British motorway standards don't allow for roundabouts. Motorway status, however, has no minimum standards, and so, you are right, there are a couple of nonterminal roundabouts (and the idea that the M271 is lightly trafficked is untrue. It got a roundabout in the middle of it for every reason but low traffic - demolitions, cost, apathy towards building a more complex interchange), and a couple of bits of undivided mainline.

--- Quote from: michih on June 30, 2019, 02:42:04 am ---British motorways (gbnm) have an higher standard - without(!) roundabouts. I've traveled 91% of the system so far (all one year ago) and can't remember that there is anything "sub standard".
--- End quote ---
your memory errs a little. Given we're talking roundabouts, then there's a fair few (but most are off mainlines, and most that are on them are terminating ones (especially of short spurs) rather than in the middle) with motorway status/under motorway regs. And various bits of single carriageway (mostly sliproads).

--- Quote ---There are tier 1 systems containing routes w/o motorway standard though.
--- End quote ---
very true. But this is much more the other way around - a system that mostly isn't motorway standard.

The M3 has just one grade separation, but a load of roundabouts on the mainline. The M2 is worse - again just one grade-seperation, but as well as roundabouts theres also signallised crossroads. The M1 is a bit better, but still has more length substandard than not.

I'd be willing to change the tier to 1 or 2 if there's regulations akin to those in Europe marked with chopsticks or happy car signs.

michih:

--- Quote from: si404 on June 30, 2019, 08:36:31 am ---
--- Quote from: michih on June 30, 2019, 02:42:04 am ---British motorways (gbnm) have an higher standard - without(!) roundabouts. I've traveled 91% of the system so far (all one year ago) and can't remember that there is anything "sub standard".
--- End quote ---
your memory errs a little. Given we're talking roundabouts, then there's a fair few (but most are off mainlines, and most that are on them are terminating ones (especially of short spurs) rather than in the middle) with motorway status/under motorway regs. And various bits of single carriageway (mostly sliproads).
--- End quote ---

I was talking about mainlines. Roundabounts at motorway ends do not belong to the motorway itself. And roundabouts at motorway interchanges do also exist in other (European) countries like Spain or the Netherlands. Just out of curiosity, which British motorway (M, not A(M) has a roundabout on the main carriageway?

--- Quote from: si404 on June 30, 2019, 08:36:31 am ---
--- Quote ---There are tier 1 systems containing routes w/o motorway standard though.
--- End quote ---
very true. But this is much more the other way around - a system that mostly isn't motorway standard.
--- End quote ---

Sure. For that reason, it's fine to me that musm is tier 3.

--- Quote from: si404 on June 30, 2019, 08:36:31 am ---I'd be willing to change the tier to 1 or 2 if there's regulations akin to those in Europe marked with chopsticks or happy car signs.
--- End quote ---

Rather tier 2 than tier 1. It's really not tier 1. I think that musm is similar to auts, belb, luxb or prtip which are tier 2 in Europe.

si404:
M271 has a roundabout in the middle, at the M27 junction (M27 goes underneath). M58 arguably has two, but that depends how you treat both the interchange with the M6, and the short single carriageway link to the A577. M4 Heathrow spur (especially if it got its own number, per original plans) would also count. For completeness, A601(M) and A627(M) have roundabouts in the middle of them. As does the M60 where it TOTSOs. Arguably the M12 in Northern Ireland (though arguable as whether that counts as British, and also if it's a terminal).

But as I said, most roundabout under motorway restrictions are at the ends of motorways (M32, M49, M50, M180, A8(M), A308(M)/A404(M), and spurs of the M3, M23 and M25), or at 4+-way motorway-motorway intersections that have 3 levels (M1/M62, M60/M62/M66, M8/M73/A8(M), M6/M61, M18/A1(M)).

The French A660 is, I believe, the worst offender (though none of the roundabouts are part of it - the autoroute ends just before each one, then restarts!) in the browser as tier-1.

But this is all a tangent...

ua747sp:
Not sure if this belongs here, but in some travels last week in northern Namibia, I noticed that B15 signage ends at B10 in the north. The stretch from B10 north to the Angolan border is signed as B11. The German-language Wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra%C3%9Fensystem_in_Namibia) shows correct maps, but the listed endpoints are incorrect.

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