Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => Updates to Highway Data => Solved Highway data updates => Topic started by: cockroachking on July 22, 2022, 10:17:02 pm

Title: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: cockroachking on July 22, 2022, 10:17:02 pm
1. NY116: The NY/CT waypoint is currently 500ft or so west of the actual state line. The state line shown on OSM appears to be correct, as verified by NYSDOT and CTDOT GIS maps.
2. CT116: see point 1
3. NY121: The NY124_N waypoint should be renamed since NY124 has not existed this far north since 1980. I would suggest naming it JunRd or JuneRd.
4. TacStaPkwy: The CR10 waypoint is too far north, as it is currently placed at Post Hill Rd, 1.15 miles north of CR10.
5. NY9A: I would suggest a new waypoint at Ashford Ave in Ardsley (or Heatherdell Rd since there is already an AshAve waypoint at Ashburton Ave) in order to reduce confusion with I-87 through here. I am suggesting a waypoint rather than a shaping point because Ashford Ave connects to the SawMillPkwy at Exit 17.
6. NY9A: I would suggest a shaping point near Belmont Rd in Hawthorne in order to reduce line overlap with the SawMillPkwy here.
7. SawMillPkwy: I would suggest adding a waypoint at NY9A/NY100, since they both have a waypoint for the SawMillPkwy there, and it would further reduce the line overlap mentioned in point 6.
8. NY US9: US9 could really use a waypoint between NY52 and NY9D at either CR28 or CR93. I would suggest CR93 since CR28 is already in use as a waypoint and more traffic would use it between US9 and NY9D, but only CR28 is already a waypoint on NY9D.
9. NY US9: US9 could also use a waypoint between FelNewRd and CR19. I would suggest CR4 or CR6, though both are already in use further north on US9.
10. NY96: Not sure why exactly TM has it ending at UniSt when the signage basically ends at WinRd, but it officially extends to East Main St. One way or another, I would imagine it should either end at one of those rather than UniSt.
11. NY74: Since TM does not count ferries, should the eastern terminus be renamed from NY/VT to something regarding the ferry (like NY373)?
12. NY35: Minor point drift at NY123 and NY/CT.
13. NY207: Minor point drift at CR8.
14. CT I-84: Point “24” is not centered at the interchange. This is probably a relic from before I-84 was reconstructed through here.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: vdeane on July 23, 2022, 06:44:20 pm
10. NY96: Not sure why exactly TM has it ending at UniSt when the signage basically ends at WinRd, but it officially extends to East Main St. One way or another, I would imagine it should either end at one of those rather than UniSt.
I'm guessing that's because the 2017 Touring Route book has it ending at the Inner Loop, and that's where the Inner Loop used to be.  In any case, cities in NY tend to be hit or miss with their signage, but in this case, it wasn't signed (https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=il&state=NY&file=100_4939.JPG) from the Inner Loop (https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=il&state=NY&file=101_0805.JPG) either, so there might indeed be a case for truncating it to Winton Road.  Yes, there's the signs saying (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1452019,-77.5553922,3a,50.5y,31.52h,83.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sU0PTqoDK1ou3V0MLQur_HA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail?panoid=U0PTqoDK1ou3V0MLQur_HA%26cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps%26w=203%26h=100%26yaw=23.075518%26pitch=0%26thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192) it continues (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1453822,-77.5548651,3a,75y,282.25h,85.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shy_sh8iKoRWuxNP96I14gA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), but the same exists for NY 404 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1768025,-77.5430689,3a,51.7y,298.98h,87.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFDaQQW7B1GvDj89MvKYNsg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at NY 590 exit 8 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1773092,-77.5436618,3a,48.5y,174.84h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKl4oHd8ttw39JTxDbEc91w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and it doesn't (the rest of Empire Boulevard is a reference route and isn't signed anywhere else) (never mind (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1773017,-77.5436635,3a,75y,174.84h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPAVDPyaIQjUImyGyrjuS_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192), they fixed that (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1768537,-77.5431116,3a,75y,298.98h,87.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shSedGzrrPki7ZFRIxW6E8A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)).
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: yakra on July 24, 2022, 10:33:42 am
Welcome to the TM forum, cockroachking, and thanks fo the corrections & suggestions!

1-2. Done.
3. Relabeled JuneRd.
4. Whoopsie. This was originally PostHillRd, but was erroneously changed back in 2018. (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2476) Holding off on making changes for the moment, as "CR10" is in use in cockroachking.list only -- do you need Post Hill Rd, or the actual CR 10 farther south?
5. AshfAve added, as it connects to a Saw Mill River Pkwy interchange.
6-7. NY9A/100 point added to SawMillPkwy. No new point on NY9A/100. This is sufficient to keep the lines from crossing.
8. I don't see any compelling reason to add a new point here. I would remove CR28 from NY9D, but OldHopRd is in use.
9. +X19 replaced with a visible point at BinMilRd. This is the only solution that keeps shaping within tolerance without increasing the total number of points.
10. See vdeane's post (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=5111.msg28613#msg28613).
11. Changed to TicFry. I'll put a note in the pull request to ping froggie. This reminds me of NJ US9, which was similarly changed pretty early in TM's lifetime (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/commit/09fedaea596d70021319999796f5a99f3200043f).
12-13. Repositioned, though normally this is pretty low priority.
14. Repositioned. I thought about adding a point (or even 2) for *OldI-84, but didn't, at least for now. At the E end, the old & new alignments separate at just about exactly the diverge point for the old WB exit 24. 1PPI would imply leaving that one out. W end, the point would wanna be at the Nolan Bridge. With the aux lane setup there, it's kinda borderline 1PPI with both 23 and 24. I'm not including an updates entry, though this is arguably newsworthy. Discuss!

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5934
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Markkos1992 on July 24, 2022, 10:59:19 am
NY 9A:  Should SawMillPkwy(26) have been changed to plain SawMillPkwy? (Ok it actually does look intentional.)

NY 16:  Did I miss something or should NY400_S have actually been changed to OleRd?
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: yakra on July 24, 2022, 11:46:37 am
OleRd has been the point label since 2017-01-19 (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/commit/81008111a0f4853474759af257138d20afd9adcf).
Only difference now is NY400_S is unused & thus removed. NY400 simply ends at an intersection with Olean Rd; there is no multiplex split.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Markkos1992 on July 24, 2022, 01:14:52 pm
Oh I see now.  I thought NY 400 follow Olean Rd between the two NY 16 intersections for some reason.   :pan:
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: cockroachking on August 01, 2022, 04:03:31 pm
Welcome to the TM forum, cockroachking, and thanks fo the corrections & suggestions!

1-2. Done.
3. Relabeled JuneRd.
4. Whoopsie. This was originally PostHillRd, but was erroneously changed back in 2018. (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2476) Holding off on making changes for the moment, as "CR10" is in use in cockroachking.list only -- do you need Post Hill Rd, or the actual CR 10 farther south?
5. AshfAve added, as it connects to a Saw Mill River Pkwy interchange.
6-7. NY9A/100 point added to SawMillPkwy. No new point on NY9A/100. This is sufficient to keep the lines from crossing.
8. I don't see any compelling reason to add a new point here. I would remove CR28 from NY9D, but OldHopRd is in use.
9. +X19 replaced with a visible point at BinMilRd. This is the only solution that keeps shaping within tolerance without increasing the total number of points.
10. See vdeane's post (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=5111.msg28613#msg28613).
11. Changed to TicFry. I'll put a note in the pull request to ping froggie. This reminds me of NJ US9, which was similarly changed pretty early in TM's lifetime (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/commit/09fedaea596d70021319999796f5a99f3200043f).
12-13. Repositioned, though normally this is pretty low priority.
14. Repositioned. I thought about adding a point (or even 2) for *OldI-84, but didn't, at least for now. At the E end, the old & new alignments separate at just about exactly the diverge point for the old WB exit 24. 1PPI would imply leaving that one out. W end, the point would wanna be at the Nolan Bridge. With the aux lane setup there, it's kinda borderline 1PPI with both 23 and 24. I'm not including an updates entry, though this is arguably newsworthy. Discuss!

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5934

1. Thank you
2. Thank you
3. Thank you
4. I have only taken it up to the real CR10 intersection. Nevertheless, I would still say that having the CR10 waypoint would be more useful in general, since it is a county route, rather than a one lane residential road like PostHillRd.
5. Thank you
6. Noted, makes sense
7. Thank you
8. I trust your judgement.
9. Thank you
10. Interesting. The Traffic Data Viewer still shows NY96 going all the way to East Main, so I guess even NYSDOT is conflicting itself. Typical  ::)
11. Thank you
12. Thank you
13. Thank you
14. Thanks. I personally don't think that the *OldI-84 point is necessary either due to 1PPI.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: cockroachking on August 09, 2022, 09:19:01 am
Any changes to the CR10 point on TacStaPkwy yet? I think that is the only thing left that needs to be fixed here.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: cockroachking on August 19, 2022, 01:41:21 pm
Any changes to the CR10 point on TacStaPkwy yet? I think that is the only thing left that needs to be fixed here.

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5968 (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5968)

Since nothing has been done yet in regard to this point, I went ahead and put in a pull request on Github.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: mapcat on August 19, 2022, 01:52:09 pm
Since nothing has been done yet in regard to this point, I went ahead and put in a pull request on Github.

Don't do that. There is a collaborator who volunteers to maintain New York (yakra) and unless he authorizes someone else to make changes, he's the only one who should be making edits in his regions. Be patient.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Duke87 on August 19, 2022, 06:49:14 pm
Since nothing has been done yet in regard to this point, I went ahead and put in a pull request on Github.

For what it's worth, what you committed is a correct fix to the stated issue. I for one appreciate the enthusiasm. :)

But yes, SOP here is that each state/"region" has a single individual responsible for managing all changes and updates with it, and no one else should be making changes unless said responsible individual explicitly says go ahead and do so. This is how we: 1) maintain version control, 2) avoid having edit wars.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: webny99 on August 20, 2022, 06:32:32 pm
Yes, I do understand the need for only one person to be making edits within a region.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Jim on August 20, 2022, 08:23:55 pm
Of course, if a contributor becomes inactive, someone else would take over.  Everyone has different schedules to be able to contribute to the process.  I wouldn't worry about yakra addressing things as his time permits.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: yakra on August 22, 2022, 10:11:47 am
I've reviewed & merged cockroachking's pull request. Thanks for the contribution.
Before marking this as closed, any more opinions on CT I-84?
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Markkos1992 on August 22, 2022, 10:21:43 am
I am fine with a no-build on CT I-84.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: Duke87 on August 22, 2022, 07:08:38 pm
Looking at I-84, based on where ramps go and how exits are numbered now:
- 22 should move east to South Main St
- 23 should be 22A
- 23A can therefore just be 23 (separate ramp to Washington St we can 1PPI out of consideration)
- there simply isn't an exit 24 anymore. The point currently labeled 24 should therefore be 25, since that's what the exit going there is actually numbered
- which means current 25 needs to be 25A
- buuuut there is already a different unrelated exit actually numbered 25A so... gah.

Leaving 24, 25, and 25A as is may be therefore the path of least resistance even if it's nominally "wrong". But I'd still tweak it west of there.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: yakra on October 29, 2022, 11:18:05 am
Older east-coast urban stuff like this tests the 1PPI bounds of "What exactly is one interchange?", with its unconventional layouts (https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/points.php#unusual_shapes) and overlapping or widely spaced partial interchanges.
Sometimes it's good to look closely at the ramps' physical layout (https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/points.php#designation), more so than the exit numbers.

- 22 should move east to South Main St
IMO the current placement does a good job of capturing the offramps in both directions, as well as the onramp from Bank St.
The WB Exit 22 onramp OTOH can be 1PPIed in with the Exit 23 complex.

- 23 should be 22A
- 23A can therefore just be 23 (separate ramp to Washington St we can 1PPI out of consideration)
Both 23 & 23A are in use, so I'm hesitant to make changes here.
An argument can be made that 23 is still appropriate here. (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.551148&lon=-73.038016&zoom=19)

Edit: I almost wanna slide the 23 point E to better align with the ramps on the N side of the highway (S side, we essentially have a big-ol' service road; the ramps don't merge back in until after an at-grade intersection @ CT69), but that would start to interfere with the CT69 trace on mapview so I'll just leave it alone.

- there simply isn't an exit 24 anymore. The point currently labeled 24 should therefore be 25, since that's what the exit going there is actually numbered
Vague memory here, maybe I noticed the 25 & 25A mess when making the previous edits for this thread, and decided the historic Exit 24 was a "good enough" fudge for this location? Or maybe not!
Either way, I agree, it's Exit 25, and begs for a change.

- which means current 25 needs to be 25A
- buuuut there is already a different unrelated exit actually numbered 25A so... gah.

Leaving 24, 25, and 25A as is may be therefore the path of least resistance even if it's nominally "wrong". But I'd still tweak it west of there.
Luckily these labels are all unused so changes can be made here with less hassle.
25B would fit the "the next available (https://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php#nextsuffix) letter suffix" by my reading, even if it's a little clunky by being out of alphanumeric sequence.
This has almost certainly happened elsewhere, though I can't think of an example off the top of my head.
In any case, we've plenty of cases of exit numbers out-of-sequence due to goofy numbering from a DOT, or weird interchange layouts.
I'm fine with 25, 25B & 25A.
Title: Re: NY/CT: Point observations
Post by: yakra on October 30, 2022, 05:43:57 pm
https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6110