Author Topic: cansf: Canada Select Named Freeways  (Read 97040 times)

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Offline yakra

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #120 on: January 11, 2023, 10:36:08 pm »
I think mapcat's criterion (a) is key.
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Offline michih

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #121 on: January 12, 2023, 12:41:00 pm »
I also don't like the route length rule.

A quick glance of length using Google Maps shows that it is only 0.7 miles and acts more like a short connector road between PA 28 and PA 8.

We usually add routes to eursf system when the route has minimum one more grade-separated junction between the start and end point except when the potential eursf route connects two freeways and it's not just "one giant interchange".

Offline Markkos1992

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #122 on: January 12, 2023, 01:11:13 pm »
I also don't like the route length rule.

A quick glance of length using Google Maps shows that it is only 0.7 miles and acts more like a short connector road between PA 28 and PA 8.

We usually add routes to eursf system when the route has minimum one more grade-separated junction between the start and end point except when the potential eursf route connects two freeways and it's not just "one giant interchange".

My reasoning for not adding PA HigParkBri versus PA CenScrExpy (now PreBidExpy) is that the latter has a well-known name.  I am still unsure of a good reason to add PA HigParkBri at this time.

Offline rickmastfan67

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #123 on: January 12, 2023, 01:16:48 pm »
I also don't like the route length rule.

A quick glance of length using Google Maps shows that it is only 0.7 miles and acts more like a short connector road between PA 28 and PA 8.

We usually add routes to eursf system when the route has minimum one more grade-separated junction between the start and end point except when the potential eursf route connects two freeways and it's not just "one giant interchange".

My reasoning for not adding PA HigParkBri versus PA CenScrExpy (now PreBidExpy) is that the latter has a well-known name.  I am still unsure of a good reason to add PA HigParkBri at this time.

Just make all the Belt Routes in Pgh, and that fixes the problem. :P

Offline Duke87

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2023, 06:56:58 pm »
It's inevitably going to be a judgment call as to what meets a significance threshold but yeah I'd argue the Central Scranton President Biden Expressway is an actual freeway while the Highland Park Bridge is just a bridge that happens to have a couple distinct interchanges to its approaches.
Needing to clinch the former to "finish" PA makes some sense, the latter... no.

I'd apply the same general thinking for Canada or anywhere else. There shouldn't be a numerical minimum length, but we're not mapping every long exit ramp, the road needs to have sufficient significance. Length can be a factor in determining significance.

Offline mapcat

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #125 on: January 14, 2023, 03:00:45 pm »
Peer review complete. I don't recommend eliminating any routes currently included in the system, although a few need some adjustments.

General comments

The QEW should stay in canonf IMO.

Would there be any problems with changing the system name to cansf (to correspond to usasf and eursf)?

I recommend doing what Oscar did when usaca was activated, and activate the system as-is, and then add any new routes after activation so they can be announced in updates.


Allen Rd
  • Looks good
Bedford Bypass
  • The northern endpoint deserves another look. NS101's exit 1F is not the same as exit 1K and should be a separate point for the Bypass endpoint IMO. The Bypass could use the CobRd point on NS1 if you think a graph connection would be useful there.
Crowchild Trail
  • It's not a freeway between 24Ave and KenRd (a distance of 2.4 km out of 21), but that's a reasonable distance. Looks like upgrades are being developed for that segment anyway.
  • Recommend adding a point at Crowfoot Rise off-ramp between NoseHillDr & AB201 (affects AB1ACoc)
  • Recommend adding a point at Brentwood Rd off-ramp between 32Ave & 40Ave (affects AB1ACoc)
  • Recommend adding a point at 10 Ave on-ramp (N of BowTrl)
  • Recommend adding a point at 54 Ave RIRO (S of 50Ave)
  • It's not clear from GMSV that AB1ACoc follows Banff Trl between AB1_E and CroTrl_S
Don Valley Pkwy
  • The road connecting via DonRd is technically "Don Roadway" but the exit from the Parkway is called "Lake Shore Blvd", so I recommend renaming the point LakeShoBlvd
  • Recommend moving DanAve to the overpass to match what was done at QueSt and DunSt
  • In shieldgen.php, shield_on.ondvp.svg -> shield_on.donvalpkwy.svg
EC Row Pkwy
  • BanRd needs recentering
Gardiner Expy
  • In shieldgen.php, shield_on.ongar.svg -> shield_on.garexpy.svg
Golden Ears Way
  • Needs a shield
  • Recommend using 192St as the south end and BC7 as the north end (that's the extent of the freeway part)
Highbury Ave
  • Looks good
Knight St
  • Recommend using MarDr as the north end
Lincoln M Alexander Pkwy
  • Needs a shield
Red Hill Valley Pkwy
  • Needs a shield
  • URedHVPkwy -> UppRHVPkwy or MudSt
Ring Rd
  • WOW signage is bad/misleading here
  • It's not a freeway between SK1/11 and LewDr, but this segment links it to 3 routes so it's needed IMO
  • AssRd -> AssAve
  • WinSt needs recentering
RR174
  • Needs a shield
  • Move RR57 to relocated intersection
  • RR34 -> MonRd since exit signage no longer mentions a route number
  • Not sure what TraWay is supposed to represent; GMSV doesn't show anything there
Sherwood Park Fwy
  • Recommend using 71St as the west end
  • East end does not connect to AB 630 (which ends at AB 21, not AB 216)
---

Several additions were suggested upthread. Apologies if I missed any.


Airport Pkwy (Ottawa) (aka RR79)
  • Maybe. It's a super-2, and all access points between the approach to the airport and Riverside Pkwy are ramps (except for a couple of gravel drives that may just be construction-related). It doesn't connect to anything in any system we currently map or are likely to in the future.
Blue Water Br (Sarnia)
  • I'd recommend against this. If the mileage really needs to be included, I'd prefer fudging the end of 402.
Circle Drive (Saskatoon)
  • No longer needed, since it's included as a branch of SK 11.
Conestoga Pkwy (Kitchener-Waterloo)
  • Not needed, since it's mapped as ON 7, ON 8, and ON 85.
Dougall Pkwy (Windsor)
  • I lean slightly toward including this. It's short (2.5 km), but there is one interchange between the logical endpoints (Howard Ave & ON 401). Travelers who take the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel probably use it.
Glenmore Trail (Calgary)
  • This definitely belongs. It's a 14-km full freeway between AB 201 (on the west side of Calgary) and Barlow Trail, with plans for upgrades to AB 201 on the east side.
Hwy 2A (Toronto)
  • Not too excited about this one. It's essentially just a ramp from 401 to Kingston Rd. Recommend against.
Hwy 27 (Toronto)
  • It's not a freeway, so no.
Idylwyld Drive/Fwy (Saskatoon)
  • No longer needed, since it's included as a branch of SK 11.
MacKay Br (Halifax)
  • This wasn't so much suggested as offered as a reason not to include "freeways" that were just bridges, but if there's a strong interest in including it, the NS 111 shield on Connaught Ave could be used as an excuse for extending that route per signage.
MacLeod Trail (Calgary)
  • From AB 201 to the traffic light at Lake Fraser Gate, it's a 5.4-km freeway. Recommend adding.
Manitoba St Expy (Moose Jaw)
  • This is not a freeway. Recommend against.
Memorial Drive (Calgary)
  • It has some freeway segments, but there are a lot of traffic lights interrupting them. Recommend against.
Nikola Tesla Blvd (Hamilton)
  • This 3.5-km freeway is fully access-controlled from where it rises above Burlington St all the way to the QEW. Recommend adding.
Wayne Gretzky Drive (Edmonton)
  • Currently it's just two short freeway segments approaching a bridge from both sides, and doesn't connect any existing routes. Maybe if it ends up connected to AB 16, but for now I don't think so.
Whoop-Up Drive (Lethbridge)
  • Similar to Wayne Gretzky Drive. It was my idea initially, but now I recommend against inclusion.
---

One more I discovered while doing this that might deserve inclusion, now or once it's completed:


Airport Trail (Calgary)
  • It connects the airport to Hwy 2 and has 2 intermediate interchanges. Long term plans to extend the freeway to AB 201.
Clinched:

Offline oscar

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #126 on: January 14, 2023, 03:44:00 pm »
[/list]Ring Rd
  • WOW signage is bad/misleading here

WOW is a completely new abbreviation to me. Meaning?

Offline mapcat

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #127 on: January 14, 2023, 04:03:12 pm »
WOW is a completely new abbreviation to me. Meaning?
HOLY COW (it was just commentary)
Clinched:

Offline vdeane

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Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
« Reply #128 on: January 14, 2023, 07:47:20 pm »
    [/list]Ring Rd
    • WOW signage is bad/misleading here

    WOW is a completely new abbreviation to me. Meaning?
    The only one that comes to mind is World of Warcraft.  Since putting WOW signage on the ring road would indeed be bad/misleading, that may well be it.

    Or perhaps it was just capitalized for emphasis.
    Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

    Offline rickmastfan67

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #129 on: January 15, 2023, 01:26:12 pm »
    RR174
    • Move RR57 to relocated intersection
    • RR34 -> MonRd since exit signage no longer mentions a route number
    • Not sure what TraWay is supposed to represent; GMSV doesn't show anything there

    1) Actually, I'll keep that point as-is (since there's a ramp there and it's signed for RR57, maybe even shift it a tad closer to the gore point) and add a new point @ the new intersection with the label of RR55/57.
    2) Was signed at least till Oct '20 on the offramps (via temporary signage, as it did have original signage there). https://goo.gl/maps/yjWCifSisNrrxjQG8  Signage might be replaced once construction is done in that area, as all signage currently in StreetView is temporary stuff.
    3) TraWay was the old Transit Way offramps there (in case somebody was using transit along there and used said ramps).  https://goo.gl/maps/4A9KqcoCDuwHzHob7  Was there till around Jul '19 at least.  After that, they've converted the area to light-rail in the middle of RR-174, and eliminated the exit ramps on both sides.  So, I guess I could remove it, or just mark it as closed.

    Offline yakra

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #130 on: January 15, 2023, 06:00:51 pm »
    In my regions:

    Bedford Bypass
       
    • The northern endpoint deserves another look. NS101's exit 1F is not the same as exit 1K and should be a separate point for the Bypass endpoint IMO.
    Exit 1F in one direction; exit 1K in the other. 1PPI makes them at the same coords. Sharing a graph connection with NS1 here is appropriate due to the EB direct connection.

    The Bypass could use the CobRd point on NS1 if you think a graph connection would be useful there.
    Wait, what? Are you saying run the bypass along the NS1 roadway? There's not even a WB direct connection. It should be pretty clear that the bypass feeds into the main freeway system on NS101, just as OSM has it labeled.

    Don't know if maybe you were misled by the 1K label on NS101 and corresponding label on NS1. That one's been around since the CHM days. IIRC Tim originally drafted cannsf; maybe he called it that in order to keep a tidy alphanumerically ascending series of exit labels in the HB. Or it's also possibe that I labeled it that when I took over NS maintenance when draftng cannst.

    Crowchild Trail
    • Recommend adding a point at Crowfoot Rise off-ramp between NoseHillDr & AB201 (affects AB1ACoc)
    Y'mean on-ramp? Yeah, this is its own distinct entrance from NoseHillDr. Added locally.

    • Recommend adding a point at Brentwood Rd off-ramp between 32Ave & 40Ave (affects AB1ACoc)
    Debated whether to call this BreRd or BrePl. BreRd added. Comments?

    • Recommend adding a point at 10 Ave on-ramp (N of BowTrl)
    (Y'mean off-ramp? :D) Hm. Wibbly-wobbly. Within the footprint of BowTrl, but still its own separate thing. Added.

    • Recommend adding a point at 54 Ave RIRO (S of 50Ave)
    Added.

    • It's not clear from GMSV that AB1ACoc follows Banff Trl between AB1_E and CroTrl_S
    Right. Never has been, really. TM's original 1/1A junction was at Crowchild. Then I moved it to Banff because at the time there was no direct right-turn connection @ Crowchild. I justified the resulting route trace on "cutting across the diagonal of the couplet" grounds, a bit like ME ME22 I-295 StJohnSt. Always gave me a little indigestion though.
    But what's this?!
    OSM now shows a new ramp from AB1 west to AB1A. ESRI WorldImagery & especially Google show fresh construction here. Don't know what will be on this gantry, but good enough! Combined with what shapefiles show as the route of AB1A, this justifies a newsworthy relocation from Banff to Crowchild. ToDo. Done locally. Affects CroTrl, AB1ACoc, AB1 & TCHMai.

    Oh boy. Now I have The Alberta Anthem (Parts 1-4) by Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie (Incorrect tune @ the part 4 link. Oh well.) stuck in my head. Not that there's anything wrong with that! This happened a lot when I was drafting canab & canabs.

    Sherwood Park Fwy
    • Recommend using 71St as the west end
    More indigestion here. This was based on "include the whole so-named route" grounds. Shapefiles have the last bit as Sherwood Park Freeway, OSM & Google calling it "82 Avenue" notwithstanding. Plus signage went from this to this in July 2014 FWIW.
    That said, this endpoint was on my mind as peer review got underway, and I can be convinced to cut it back to 71St on "include just the freeway bit" grounds if that's what the consensus is. Thoughts, everyone?

    • East end does not connect to AB 630 (which ends at AB 21, not AB 216)
    ToDo. I'll have to look into this. Maybe julmac mentioned this in his canabs peer review, which I've been letting sit far too long. Thankfully though, this wouln't require any changes to cannf, only to canabs.

    Glenmore Trail (Calgary)
    • This definitely belongs. It's a 14-km full freeway between AB 201 (on the west side of Calgary) and Barlow Trail, with plans for upgrades to AB 201 on the east side.
    Yes, this belongs. Probably only left out because cannf has received little attention since CHM, at which time ab.ab008glt/AB8Gle existed in cansph.
    I've dusted off the old file, recentered & renamed some points, extended to BarTrl, and added it to my local branch.
    I never liked having to choose between either not including all the so-named route or including a long non-freeway stretch, but if we're going with the "Q1" answer quoted above, it gets the freeway section as mapcat recommends. The short gap before "AB201_E" I can live with, especially if it'll eventually be upgraded, which appears to be the case (the semi-recent jughandle at 68th St appears to be a temporary interim solution). When that happens (even if it's a long way out yet), all of Glenmore Trail will be included, in either cannf (cansf?) or canabs.

    Potential additions (just focusing on my regions here):

    MacKay Br (Halifax)
    • This wasn't so much suggested as offered as a reason not to include "freeways" that were just bridges, but if there's a strong interest in including it, the NS 111 shield on Connaught Ave could be used as an excuse for extending that route per signage.
    Recommend against. It was originally included as part of NS111 on CHM, but removed. The signage intown is best considered as trailblazers with a missing TO; same goes for NS102.

    MacLeod Trail (Calgary)
    • From AB 201 to the traffic light at Lake Fraser Gate, it's a 5.4-km freeway. Recommend adding.
    Thought about this one at times, but am more lukewarm on it. It only connects to routes in other systems @ the S end; the N end of the freeway just kinda peters out as it approaches central Calgary. Thoughts?

    Memorial Drive (Calgary)
    • It has some freeway segments, but there are a lot of traffic lights interrupting them. Recommend against.
    Agree; skip this one.
    Personally my thinking is, I'm taking the "(a) perform important connections between routes in other systems" criterion a bit beyond the "routes that consist entirely of one segment" context it was mentioned in.

    Wayne Gretzky Drive (Edmonton)
    • Currently it's just two short freeway segments approaching a bridge from both sides, and doesn't connect any existing routes. Maybe if it ends up connected to AB 16, but for now I don't think so.
    Whoop-Up Drive (Lethbridge)
    • Similar to Wayne Gretzky Drive. It was my idea initially, but now I recommend against inclusion.
    Agree; skip these.
    Some have proposed (I'm thinking of usasf here too) otherwise non-freeway routes with just a couple interchanges in the middle, sometimes not even connecting to the rest of the network. Not a fan. Glorified expressways or boulevards IMO.

    One more I discovered while doing this that might deserve inclusion, now or once it's completed:


    Airport Trail (Calgary)
    • It connects the airport to Hwy 2 and has 2 intermediate interchanges. Long term plans to extend the freeway to AB 201.
    Meh. Lots of non-freeway in the east, and signalized ramps @ the west end.

    A few items in other regions:

    Ring Rd:
    I don't get why the province went to the expense of building all this new-alignment road for the outer Regina Bypass, when it seems they could have upgraded the W end of Ring Rd to full freeway, put in a 2-way Y interchange just E of SK6, and made a shorter new alignment straight on east toward the new Wascana Creek crossing. But anyway.

    Golden Ears Way:
    199A/201St -> one or the other per this rule. Maybe 199ASt as it's the exiting one; what would be signed if they didn't sign control cities instead?

    RR174:
    1) Actually, I'll keep that point as-is (since there's a ramp there and it's signed for RR57, maybe even shift it a tad closer to the gore point) and add a new point @ the new intersection with the label of RR55/57.
    Looks like they're building an interchange?

    3) TraWay was the old Transit Way offramps there (in case somebody was using transit along there and used said ramps).  https://goo.gl/maps/4A9KqcoCDuwHzHob7  Was there till around Jul '19 at least.  After that, they've converted the area to light-rail in the middle of RR-174, and eliminated the exit ramps on both sides.  So, I guess I could remove it, or just mark it as closed.
    Mark as closed, and capitalize that W, lest it be flagged as LABEL_LONG_WORD some day ;)

    Holding off on a pull request pending any comments on BreRd vs BrePl.
    « Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 06:37:05 pm by yakra »
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    Offline rickmastfan67

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #131 on: January 15, 2023, 06:34:00 pm »
    RR174:
    1) Actually, I'll keep that point as-is (since there's a ramp there and it's signed for RR57, maybe even shift it a tad closer to the gore point) and add a new point @ the new intersection with the label of RR55/57.
    Looks like they're building an interchange?

    I think that might be for a pedestrian crossover, since the tram station will supposedly be in-between the carriageways of RR-174.

    Offline rickmastfan67

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #132 on: January 15, 2023, 08:27:18 pm »
    General comments

    The QEW should stay in canonf IMO.

    Which was my plan from the start.  Especially since Ontario considers it as a 400-series route, and it uses a standard 'Ontario' shield, that's just in different colors like the MTO owned 407 segment & ON-412 (though it's supposedly going to be changed to the normal white shields since tolls were removed), & formerly ON-418 (was a toll route like MTO ON-407 & ON-412).


    Don Valley Pkwy
    • The road connecting via DonRd is technically "Don Roadway" but the exit from the Parkway is called "Lake Shore Blvd", so I recommend renaming the point LakeShoBlvd
    • Recommend moving DanAve to the overpass to match what was done at QueSt and DunSt
    • In shieldgen.php, shield_on.ondvp.svg -> shield_on.donvalpkwy.svg

    1) Guess I could do it that way.  Changed locally.
    2) Looking like that shouldn't truly be changed.  Seems that while it's access to the DVP from Danforth Ave (or should it be Bloor Street? Not sure where the name swap officially happens.), it seems to have it's own road name of 'Royal Drive'.  So, maybe leave location as-is and relabel as 'RoyDr'?
    3) Will be done when we take this system live, due to needing to make the currently active route an alt name for the one in this system.

    EC Row Pkwy
    • BanRd needs recentering

    Fixed locally. (FYI, OSM is slightly off-centered at the end of the route).

    Gardiner Expy
    • In shieldgen.php, shield_on.ongar.svg -> shield_on.garexpy.svg

    Will be done when we take this system live, due to needing to make the currently active route an alt name for the one in this system.

    Lincoln M Alexander Pkwy
    • Needs a shield

    This would have to be made, as the shield available on Wikipedia is only available as a PNG.

    Red Hill Valley Pkwy
    • Needs a shield
    • URedHVPkwy -> UppRHVPkwy or MudSt

    1) This would have to be made, as the shield available on Wikipedia is only available as a PNG.
    2) UppRHVPkwy if it has to be changed.  Would rather stick with the '3-letter' word that was already in the name.

    Several additions were suggested upthread. Apologies if I missed any.

    Airport Pkwy (Ottawa) (aka RR79)
    • Maybe. It's a super-2, and all access points between the approach to the airport and Riverside Pkwy are ramps (except for a couple of gravel drives that may just be construction-related). It doesn't connect to anything in any system we currently map or are likely to in the future.
    Blue Water Br (Sarnia)
    • I'd recommend against this. If the mileage really needs to be included, I'd prefer fudging the end of 402.
    Conestoga Pkwy (Kitchener-Waterloo)
    • Not needed, since it's mapped as ON 7, ON 8, and ON 85.
    Dougall Pkwy (Windsor)
    • I lean slightly toward including this. It's short (2.5 km), but there is one interchange between the logical endpoints (Howard Ave & ON 401). Travelers who take the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel probably use it.
    Hwy 2A (Toronto)
    • Not too excited about this one. It's essentially just a ramp from 401 to Kingston Rd. Recommend against.
    Hwy 27 (Toronto)
    • It's not a freeway, so no.
    Nikola Tesla Blvd (Hamilton)
    • This 3.5-km freeway is fully access-controlled from where it rises above Burlington St all the way to the QEW. Recommend adding.

    Airport Pkwy: Still against it, as it doesn't connect to anything we map (unless we continued it all the way up to ON-416).  Plus I honestly haven't found any documentation that says it's considered as control-accessed.  Especially since they allow bikes on it. https://goo.gl/maps/8gdCLpuB4xss3oHA8

    Blue Water Bridge:
    Against.

    Conestoga Pkwy:
    Agreed with you mapcat, due to it already being fully mapped as Ontario routes.

    Dougall Pkwy:
    It was at one time considered part of ON-3B/ON-401A.  Guess we could add it.

    Hwy 2A:
    Was formerly part of the provincial system as ON-2A before downloading.  This is some of the last signage mentioning this fact.  Is also still called 'Highway 2A' along the EB Collector Lanes of ON-401, but doesn't get a mention going WB.  Honestly could go either way with me here.

    Hwy 27:
    Agree as 'Hwy-27'.  However........  This could be possibly added as a spur of ON-427, at least partially.

    Why you may ask?  Well, it has 427's km markers along it.  Plus it has an 'END ON-427' shield just north of the ON-401 overpass.  And directly on the other side, there's the first SB ON-427 shield too.

    Nikola Tesla Blvd (Hamilton):
    Meh, I guess we could add it.  Not too thrilled about this one.

    Offline mapcat

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #133 on: January 16, 2023, 03:34:53 pm »
    Bedford Bypass
    • The northern endpoint deserves another look. NS101's exit 1F is not the same as exit 1K and should be a separate point for the Bypass endpoint IMO.
    Exit 1F in one direction; exit 1K in the other. 1PPI makes them at the same coords. Sharing a graph connection with NS1 here is appropriate due to the EB direct connection.

    The Bypass could use the CobRd point on NS1 if you think a graph connection would be useful there.
    Wait, what? Are you saying run the bypass along the NS1 roadway? There's not even a WB direct connection. It should be pretty clear that the bypass feeds into the main freeway system on NS101, just as OSM has it labeled.

    Don't know if maybe you were misled by the 1K label on NS101 and corresponding label on NS1. That one's been around since the CHM days. IIRC Tim originally drafted cannsf; maybe he called it that in order to keep a tidy alphanumerically ascending series of exit labels in the HB. Or it's also possibe that I labeled it that when I took over NS maintenance when draftng cannst.

    What I was picturing was NS 1 remaining as-is, NS 101 getting a new point at Exit 1F, and the Bypass connecting to NS 1 at the CobRd point and then continuing northward to join NS 101 at 1F. This sign makes it pretty clear that Cobequid Rd acts as the NS 1 exit from the Bypass.

    • Recommend adding a point at Brentwood Rd off-ramp between 32Ave & 40Ave (affects AB1ACoc)
    Debated whether to call this BreRd or BrePl. BreRd added. Comments?

    Signage doesn't help there, does it. I don't have a preference.

    Sherwood Park Fwy
    • Recommend using 71St as the west end
    More indigestion here. This was based on "include the whole so-named route" grounds. Shapefiles have the last bit as Sherwood Park Freeway, OSM & Google calling it "82 Avenue" notwithstanding. Plus signage went from this to this in July 2014 FWIW.
    That said, this endpoint was on my mind as peer review got underway, and I can be convinced to cut it back to 71St on "include just the freeway bit" grounds if that's what the consensus is. Thoughts, everyone?

    The light at 71 St marking the end of the freeway was my justification.

    MacLeod Trail (Calgary)
    • From AB 201 to the traffic light at Lake Fraser Gate, it's a 5.4-km freeway. Recommend adding.
    Thought about this one at times, but am more lukewarm on it. It only connects to routes in other systems @ the S end; the N end of the freeway just kinda peters out as it approaches central Calgary. Thoughts?

    You mean, like Sherwood Park Fwy, and the non-AB1A part of Crowchild Trail (as currently drafted)? ;)

    Airport Trail (Calgary)
    • It connects the airport to Hwy 2 and has 2 intermediate interchanges. Long term plans to extend the freeway to AB 201.
    Meh. Lots of non-freeway in the east, and signalized ramps @ the west end.

    To be clear, I only meant the part that's currently a freeway. The interchange at the west end does allow for free-flowing traffic in two directions already and plans exist to eliminate the signals.

    Hwy 27:
    Agree as 'Hwy-27'.  However........  This could be possibly added as a spur of ON-427, at least partially.

    Why you may ask?  Well, it has 427's km markers along it.  Plus it has an 'END ON-427' shield just north of the ON-401 overpass.  And directly on the other side, there's the first SB ON-427 shield too.

    Interesting. I completely misunderstood the OP's suggestion and thought that the proposal related to the route south of the QEW. As for that one, it would be really short if you're limiting it to the segment south of the END sign.
    Clinched:

    Offline yakra

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    Re: cannf: Canada Select Named Freeways
    « Reply #134 on: January 18, 2023, 10:12:17 am »
    What I was picturing was NS 1 remaining as-is,
    Good thus far...

    NS 101 getting a new point at Exit 1F,
    Here's where I start to disagree:
    Exit 1F in one direction; exit 1K in the other. 1PPI makes them at the same coords. Sharing a graph connection with NS1 here is appropriate due to the EB direct connection.
    To clarify, what I was referring to in the link was "Where the centerlines would cross if it were an at-grade intersection with the same shape. Not where the ramps of one road connect to the other."
    My usual M.O. with semi-directional ramps like these is to trace out an imaginary center line between both carrigeways, and put the point where that intersects the main freeway. Thus 1F & 1K work out to just about exactly the same coords, and 1PPI applies.

    and the Bypass connecting to NS 1 at the CobRd point
    Not sure what you mean by "connecting to" here. Based on your having mentioned a graph connection, I interpreted that as using the same coords as existing NS NS1 CobRd. That, I can't get behind; I won't put a waypoint off of the road itself just to get a graph connection.

    and then continuing northward to join NS 101 at 1F. This sign makes it pretty clear that Cobequid Rd acts as the NS 1 exit from the Bypass.
    I wanna leave this pretty much as-is, with one point for 1F/1K that 1PPI's all three routes together.
    WRT a CobRd point on the bypass, I can see some merit to that. I may have just considered it 1PPI when first drafting the route, but OTOH, adding a point at the offramp could pull the bypass away from the 101/102 interchange in mapview.

    On another note, should I reverse point order and make BedByp E-W? It functions as kind of an extension/bypass of the ends of two E-W corridors,  NS101/1 & NS7.

    Debated whether to call this BreRd or BrePl. BreRd added. Comments?
    Signage doesn't help there, does it. I don't have a preference.
    Signage here, OTOH... Nothing for Brentwood Pl. That's what made me go with Rd.

    The light at 71 St marking the end of the freeway was my justification.
    In keeping with the "only include the freeway bits & end at the first at-grade interchange" M.O.

    Thought about this one at times, but am more lukewarm on it. It only connects to routes in other systems @ the S end; the N end of the freeway just kinda peters out as it approaches central Calgary. Thoughts?
    You mean, like Sherwood Park Fwy, and the non-AB1A part of Crowchild Trail (as currently drafted)? ;)
    HA! Well played, sir! Crowchild will of course be fixed by the inclusion of Glenmore. That would be included in my next pull request, except that
    I recommend doing what Oscar did when usaca was activated, and activate the system as-is, and then add any new routes after activation so they can be announced in updates.
    So maybe I'll hold off.

    I did think about SheParkFwy potentially undermining my point, but feel a bit different about that one, as the whole facility is included (give or take a wibbly-wobbly W terminus). So it's less petering out in that case. :)

    Meh. Lots of non-freeway in the east, and signalized ramps @ the west end.
    To be clear, I only meant the part that's currently a freeway. The interchange at the west end does allow for free-flowing traffic in two directions already and plans exist to eliminate the signals.
    Yeah. I guess I'm just generally less enthusiastic about including the freeway portion of an otherwise longer facilty.
    Good to hear about the interchange upgrade plans. remaining That E->N left-turn movement did give me pause for a second, but it doesn't conflict with any WB movements. It keeps left while the SB->EB traffic entering Airport trail is keeping right. Interesting...
    Heck, if Highbury Avenue is included...



    I mentioned years ago upthread that I thought the QEW should be moved to cannf. I withdraw that objection. There's plenty of precedent for different-colored shields (right there in canonf, or in the original cannb before it was split in 3) or even different style shields entirely (usapa & usafl, even if these were only reflected in CHM, not TM's shieldgen), and for alphanumerically designated routes that are all alpha and no numeric.
    (On that note, should it maybe be ON ONQEW for consistency?)
    « Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 10:18:53 am by yakra »
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