Author Topic: usaky8  (Read 3855 times)

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Offline si404

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usaky8
« on: June 01, 2016, 09:12:57 am »
I have the following comments:

general comment: there's some minor descrepencies between OSM and your routes, where you have got more accurate data than OSM - that's fine, though unnecessary and potentially your source could be really irksome about it.

KY3716: I'm guessing KY16 has been moved onto an upgraded old route now that has also meant that the cut offs at the N and S ends of this route have gone?
KY3677: some extra points would be good. Certainly points at Dawahare Dr/Industrial Drive and Dawahare Dr/Village Lane, and probably also Ridgeview Way (for shaping)
KY3608: optional point at the other junction with BulChuRd for museum and KY20 (and better shaping)
KY3571: point at Arbor Lane for shaping?
KY3548: point at Clay Lick Pike and two shaping points, rather than one?
KY3526: is Vanzora Rd not KY2603 as OSM says? A point there anyway would be nice.


and, yes, I'm working backwards.

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 07:29:07 am »
I have the following comments:

general comment: there's some minor descrepencies between OSM and your routes, where you have got more accurate data than OSM - that's fine, though unnecessary and potentially your source could be really irksome about it.

OK, when is it appropriate to override an official (DOT) source? I only did so when GMSV clearly showed a street sign with a different name which, I admit, I checked only when I found discrepancies (KYTC vs local county GIS).

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KY3716: I'm guessing KY16 has been moved onto an upgraded old route now that has also meant that the cut offs at the N and S ends of this route have gone?

KY3716 is the former route of KY16.

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KY3677: some extra points would be good. Certainly points at Dawahare Dr/Industrial Drive and Dawahare Dr/Village Lane, and probably also Ridgeview Way (for shaping)
KY3608: optional point at the other junction with BulChuRd for museum and KY20 (and better shaping)
KY3571: point at Arbor Lane for shaping?
KY3548: point at Clay Lick Pike and two shaping points, rather than one?

Thanks for bringing up shaping points. It's not clear from the directives when to use them (or waypoints in general) beyond the minimum. I use the CHM waypoint editor, and make sure every part of the route falls between the red lines. Beyond that, I'll drop a waypoint in at every intersection with a signed route or other roads that lead to a destination (nearby interstate exit, major tourist attraction, etc). I've read several threads here of the "cleanup" variety that indicate other collaborators stripping excessive waypoints and shaping points from routes, and with that in mind I've sought to avoid cluttering my drafts with anything but the bare minimum. I've chosen one shaping point over two waypoints when one shaping point is enough to properly shape the route and the two waypoints would have been at intersections with roads that seemed unimportant. If I've misinterpreted the guidelines, please elaborate.

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KY3526: is Vanzora Rd not KY2603 as OSM says? A point there anyway would be nice.

Thanks for catching that. Yes, 2603 is signed and deserves a point. I'll get on that when I return home in a week.
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Offline si404

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 07:46:55 am »
I have the following comments:

general comment: there's some minor descrepencies between OSM and your routes, where you have got more accurate data than OSM - that's fine, though unnecessary and potentially your source could be really irksome about it.

OK, when is it appropriate to override an official (DOT) source? I only did so when GMSV clearly showed a street sign with a different name which, I admit, I checked only when I found discrepancies (KYTC vs local county GIS).
I was thinking more about where the point isn't on the road as-marked-on-OSM, but is on the road if you switch to Google's data. I'm not thinking about street names, but actual mapping data that Google might get annoying about. If it comes from state or county sources, then good, we won't have a problem. We shouldn't have a problem with the Goog, but we could have one, so avoid doing it unless OSM is really bad.
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KY3716: I'm guessing KY16 has been moved onto an upgraded old route now that has also meant that the cut offs at the N and S ends of this route have gone?
KY3716 is the former route of KY16.
Sorry, my question is about the cut offs along the route. They are marked on OSM and Google, but you treat them as non-existent.
Quote
Thanks for bringing up shaping points. It's not clear from the directives when to use them (or waypoints in general) beyond the minimum. I use the CHM waypoint editor, and make sure every part of the route falls between the red lines. Beyond that, I'll drop a waypoint in at every intersection with a signed route or other roads that lead to a destination (nearby interstate exit, major tourist attraction, etc). I've read several threads here of the "cleanup" variety that indicate other collaborators stripping excessive waypoints and shaping points from routes, and with that in mind I've sought to avoid cluttering my drafts with anything but the bare minimum. I've chosen one shaping point over two waypoints when one shaping point is enough to properly shape the route and the two waypoints would have been at intersections with roads that seemed unimportant. If I've misinterpreted the guidelines, please elaborate.
You've not misinterpreted, but your minimalist routes aren't great. The excessive shaping was having the roadway within the blue line, rather than the red lines. I prefer more the minimalist approach to the overzealous ones, but I do personally like having the rough shape of the route, so two points is better than one if the road zigzags. Most of the shaping questions are up to you (I put question marks on those), though there's cases where you have been over-minimalist in points in general - KY3677 is an all or nothing thing, but wouldn't be driven as such (especially as the last bit is a cul-de-sac off the main road).

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2016, 10:23:42 pm »
I have the following comments:

general comment: there's some minor descrepencies between OSM and your routes, where you have got more accurate data than OSM - that's fine, though unnecessary and potentially your source could be really irksome about it.

OK, when is it appropriate to override an official (DOT) source? I only did so when GMSV clearly showed a street sign with a different name which, I admit, I checked only when I found discrepancies (KYTC vs local county GIS).
I was thinking more about where the point isn't on the road as-marked-on-OSM, but is on the road if you switch to Google's data. I'm not thinking about street names, but actual mapping data that Google might get annoying about. If it comes from state or county sources, then good, we won't have a problem. We shouldn't have a problem with the Goog, but we could have one, so avoid doing it unless OSM is really bad.

So I should specifically *not* use Google's satellite data when determining where to place waypoints and route alignments? If so, could you please point me to the relevant material in Google's TOS that would preclude these uses for a noncommercial site? I get that you're more comfortable with/confident in OSM data, possibly because it's more accurate in the regions where you do most of your work, but as indicated in the following comment, it's not always the case in Kentucky.

Quote
Quote
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KY3716: I'm guessing KY16 has been moved onto an upgraded old route now that has also meant that the cut offs at the N and S ends of this route have gone?
KY3716 is the former route of KY16.
Sorry, my question is about the cut offs along the route. They are marked on OSM and Google, but you treat them as non-existent.

Now that I've finally had a chance to access the maps, I see what you mean. I drove both KY 16 and KY 3716 this week and can confirm that the cut-offs are now disconnected, and that the routes intersect at the points where the route files (and Google satellite imagery) indicate that they do.

Quote
Quote
Thanks for bringing up shaping points. It's not clear from the directives when to use them (or waypoints in general) beyond the minimum. I use the CHM waypoint editor, and make sure every part of the route falls between the red lines. Beyond that, I'll drop a waypoint in at every intersection with a signed route or other roads that lead to a destination (nearby interstate exit, major tourist attraction, etc). I've read several threads here of the "cleanup" variety that indicate other collaborators stripping excessive waypoints and shaping points from routes, and with that in mind I've sought to avoid cluttering my drafts with anything but the bare minimum. I've chosen one shaping point over two waypoints when one shaping point is enough to properly shape the route and the two waypoints would have been at intersections with roads that seemed unimportant. If I've misinterpreted the guidelines, please elaborate.
You've not misinterpreted, but your minimalist routes aren't great. The excessive shaping was having the roadway within the blue line, rather than the red lines. I prefer more the minimalist approach to the overzealous ones, but I do personally like having the rough shape of the route, so two points is better than one if the road zigzags. Most of the shaping questions are up to you (I put question marks on those), though there's cases where you have been over-minimalist in points in general - KY3677 is an all or nothing thing, but wouldn't be driven as such (especially as the last bit is a cul-de-sac off the main road).

I agree with you fully, and would be happy to add most if not all of the shaping points you suggested in this thread and your other usakyN posts. But before I do, I'd like confirmation from some of the other collaborators that it is indeed preferable to include more than the minimum, and that I won't be asked later to delete points deemed excessive.
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Offline mapcat

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 09:37:17 pm »
I have the following comments:

general comment: there's some minor descrepencies between OSM and your routes, where you have got more accurate data than OSM - that's fine, though unnecessary and potentially your source could be really irksome about it.

KY3716: I'm guessing KY16 has been moved onto an upgraded old route now that has also meant that the cut offs at the N and S ends of this route have gone?
KY3677: some extra points would be good. Certainly points at Dawahare Dr/Industrial Drive and Dawahare Dr/Village Lane, and probably also Ridgeview Way (for shaping)
KY3608: optional point at the other junction with BulChuRd for museum and KY20 (and better shaping)
KY3571: point at Arbor Lane for shaping?
KY3548: point at Clay Lick Pike and two shaping points, rather than one?
KY3526: is Vanzora Rd not KY2603 as OSM says? A point there anyway would be nice.


and, yes, I'm working backwards.

Other than 3716, mentioned earlier, I made the suggested changes (or very similar changes in the case of 3548).
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Offline si404

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 07:35:17 am »
IMO, this subsystem is good to be merged in.

Offline mapcat

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2016, 09:40:07 pm »
Now that the peer review is done, are there any objections to activating this set by adding it to usaky on November 11?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:18:09 pm by Jim »
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Offline yakra

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 10:49:54 am »
I personally don't object.
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Offline Jim

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Re: usaky8
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 11:01:44 am »
Yes, let's get all the usakyX systems into usaky.  Unless someone's planning further review or there are known problems, I see no need to wait a week.  Go for it!