Author Topic: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues  (Read 4183 times)

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Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2022, 11:42:48 am »
D100: Route needs to be split. See TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul.

O1 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. Truncate on both ends so that it runs from exit 3 to exit 14 only, see TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul. Since there are no km posts and only white instead of green signs, and no motorway beginning / end signs, I think we have two option: Keep as-is in turo system or move to tursf system with name "O1". Thoughts?

O1 Ulubatlı Hasan (branch): O3 on OSM, nothing on GM. No number on leaving O1 main route according to June 2022 GSV. No km posts, less than 1km long, no interchange. Remove.

O1 Libadiye (branch): Remove, see TUR: O1 / O2 Istanbul

O2 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. There are green direction signs south of O4 northbound (white southbound) on April 2022 GSV. I failed to find the end/begining of motorway signs at east end. First km posts only appear north of O4 according to April 2022 GSV but the sign indicates segment "2". Is the segment south of O4 segment "1"? I'd keep the route as-is. See here for general issues.

O2 Esenler (branch): Is unsigned and has white directions signs. No km posts. The route has two interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O2 Okmeydanı (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving main route according to May 2022 GSV. No km posts and white direction signs on the route. Begin of motorway sign directly in front of the O2 interchange. The route has 3 interchange - all missing in HB! (the existing one needs to be removed). Remove route from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O2 Levent (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving main route according to May 2014 GSV. No km posts and no interchange on the route. white signs. End of motorway directly within the O2 interchange. I think we should remove the route.

O2 Sultançiftliği (branch): Remove, see TUR: O1 / O2 Istanbul

O3 (Main): O3 signed as motorway and with green signs from O2 to the west according to my observation. GSV is fucked up here but I can show the next unsigned exit with white signs (outbound) on June 2022 GSV. O3 is signed inbound just in front of the O2 interchange (September 2019 GSV) and within the interchange but I saw these situations very often. The signs just suddenly disappear after the interchange, km posts disappear and direction signs are white. OSM + GM indicate O3 up to O1. However, I tend to keep O3 up to O1 as-is because O4 also reaches O1 and OSM + GM also indicate it this way. Other than the branches, we only talk about a truncation, not about the existance in HB at all. But I'm open for truncating O3 to the O2 interchange and putting the remainder to tursf.

O3 Edirne (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O3 main route according to September 2022 GSV. km posts indicate O3 on September 2022 GSV. Green signs and an interchange on the route. Motorway end sign at the end of the route. Keep as-is.

O3 Lüleburgaz (branch): O3 on OSM but no number on GM. Only "To D100" and "To 565" on leaving O3 main route according to June 2018 GSV. km posts indicate O3 on June 2018 GSV. Green signs and an interchange on the route. Motorway end sign at the end of the route. Keep as-is.

O3 Ortaköy (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. Only "To D100" on leaving O3 main route according to July 2022 GSV. No km posts and no interchange on the route. End of motorway signs at the end of the route right after the toll station. I'd call it a simple motorway exit ramp with toll station like there are a lot. I think we should remove the route.

O3 Haramidere (branch): Why do we call it according to the metro station at the end of the route instead of to Esenyurt, a one-million-inhabitants city district? Nonetheless, there is no number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O3 main route according to July 2022 GSV and my observation. No km posts, white signs and motorway end right after the toll station in front of the next interchange. O3 is also not indicated on direction signs towards O3. The route has 4 interchanges in total. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

Add new O3 branch as mentioned at O7 main route above.


If we introduce a tursf system - I'm in favor for it -, we should add more routes, especially in and around Istanbul. I'd say, rule of thumb: All routes indicated in magenta on OSM with minimum three interchanges in total.

Edit: O1 modified
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 01:05:57 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2022, 12:43:35 pm »
Başakşehir-Habipler Bağlantı Yolu = missing connector from O7Cob exit 13 to O2 b/n wp 2 and 3 (opened in 2021?)

Green signs and signed eastbound on pre-opening April 2021 GSV. km posts indicate O7. It connects two motorways, O7Cob and O2. Add route as O7 (Sultangazi).

Offline panda80

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2022, 09:35:16 am »
Again, I think that (most connectors*) only have O numbers being meant as "To O-xx" with different numbers for each direction:

Another general observation: I had a quick look on GSV (where available) for several connectors and I think that the connectors are indicated on direction signs with the route numbers where they lead to. E.g. the route is indicated with O-X northbound and O-y southbound :(

My visit to Turkey confirmed the GSV check. A lot of signs just mean "To xxx".

Some examples:
- see O6/D550 mess: https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=4862.msg29433#msg29433
- O2 + O3 on D100 as To on turning off
- O2 + E80 on D100 on the main line - note: no D100 sign! It's repeated at all exits inbound.

The signed connectors to tolled motorways are not a Turkish thing only. We face the same situation in France and Italy. Also Germany for trumpet exits. Those are not in HB. Only if they are signed well and have interchanges along the route (not just at both ends), we should think about having them in HB.

Suggestions:

O20: please refer to TUR: O20 exit numbers

O21 (Main): Fine. South end is not indicated on GM but km posts indicate O21.

O21 Bor (branch): Is signed on leaving main line (however, E90 too!). OSM and GM do not indicate O21 and it's only 4km long without any interchange on the route. km posts indicate O21A. Should we rename it to O21ABor? Anyway, there is no interchange on the route. I'd remove it.

O21 Kirsehir (branch): Is signed on leaving the main route (however, E90 too!). OSM and GM do not indicate O21 but km posts do. There is minimum one interchange on the route and it's about 30km long. East end is not covered well by GSV, I tend to keep the route as-is!. Anyone?

O21A: Exit numbers have been changed according to OSM and May 2022 GSV. The A in O21A is confirmed by May 2022 GSV although km posts only indicate O21. Change wp labels!

O22 (Main): Remove "(Main)" from csv files, rename D160/D200 wp to 4 as we can see on 2018 GSV, OSM indicates K4 and K8.

O22 Alasarköy (branch): Remove, see upthread

O22 Bursa (branch): Remove, see upthread, we might add it as tursf route if anything

O22 Dudaklı (branch): Remove, see upthread


Corrected the issues from O20 to O22, should come with the next update. Removed the branches.

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2023, 03:46:59 pm »
As agreed with the regular region maintainer panda80, I've reworked the O30s + O50s:

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6736

O30 (Main): Remove "(Main)" from csv files, add exit 4-1 (on E881 too), also refer to TUR: O30/O33 transition at Menemen

O31 (Main): Signed well but check TUR: O31 exit numbering, we need to remove "(Main)" from csv files if we kick out O31Tor

O31 Torbalı (branch): OSM nor GM indicate it. The motorway begins at the roundabout (wp required), km posts indicate O31 all the way though. The length is about 3km. I think we should remove it from HB because there is no interchange (but a roundabout) on the route, it's short and motorway end is at the roundabout. And see O32Url.

O32 (Main): plese refer to TUR: O32 exit numbers, we need to remove "(Main)" from csv files if we kick out O32Url

O32 Urla: Same like O31Tor. Signed on km posts, roundabout. Remove. If we would tend to keeping it, we had to check three similar cases along O32 to the west.

O33 Menemen: Remove city name from csv files and check the issues mentioned under TUR: O33 (Menemen)

O33 Manisa: Remove and relocate D565, see TUR: O33 Manisa

O50: Remove, see TUR: O50 is signed as O51 and O52 now

O51 (Main): see TUR: O50 is signed as O51 and O52 now

O51 Tarsus (branch): Motorway begins at first interchange, whole route is signed as O51 on km posts (2015 GSV) but D400 is indicated on direction signs towards O51 (2015 GSV). No numbering on OSM nor GM. I think that a km post indicating O51 disappeared on 2022 GSV. I'd remove it from HB but O51Ser is similar just with km posts, see below.

O51 Serbest Bölge (branch): No numbers on OSM nor GM. Connector with one iinterchange on the route. Does still have O51 km posts according to May 2022 GSV. No motorway begin / end beyond the interchange though, and blue signs. Dunno. Anyone?

O52 (Main): see TUR: O50 is signed as O51 and O52 now

O52 Büyüktüysüz (branch): Remove, see TUR: O52Buy / O53Top

O52 Birecik (branch): Not indicated on OSM nor GM. GSV ends at the toll station. There is an at-grade junction in the middle. Remove!

O52 Koçören (branch): km indicate O52 on April 2021 GSV. Blue signs and at-grade junctions. Also here. Not indicated as O52 on OSM nor GM. Remove since there is no interchange on the route but just at-grade junctions.

O53 (Main): Fine

O53 Toprakkale (branch): Keep but see TUR: O52Buy / O53Top for general issues

O53 Çankaya (branch): Simple exit connector without interchange. No numbering on OSM nor GM. Green signs only up to the toll station just in front of the (end) interchange. Remove!

O54: Fine

I kept O51ser since panda80 also kept O21kir. Both are in the "dunno" category :)

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2023, 03:51:39 pm »
If we introduce a tursf system - I'm in favor for it -, we should add more routes, especially in and around Istanbul. I'd say, rule of thumb: All routes indicated in magenta on OSM with minimum three interchanges in total.

Any objections?

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2023, 02:21:38 pm »
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6739

O4 (Main): Indicated till west end (albeit white signs) according to April 2022 GSV even beyond the end of motorway at O2 interchange. Please check for missing exits and correct exit numbering at east end.

O4 Çayırova (branch): No number on OSM, GM, leaving main route. Green direction signs w/o number according to April 2022 GSV. But indicated on km posts. I failed to find end / beginning of motorway signs on the route main line but at the first exit. That's enough, keep as-is.

O4 İzmit (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. Not signed on leaving main route. No km posts, no interchange. Remove.

O4 Gerede (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. Signed as motorway on June 2022 GSV but no numbering towards O4. However, O4 is indicated away from the main line on July 2022 GSV. Also km posts. Keep as-is!

O5 (Main) Bursa: Remove "(Main)" in csv files. Please refer to TUR: O5/E90/E881 for general issues.

O5 Akhisar (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O5 main route. No km posts nor interchanges on the route. Remove.

O7 (Main): Please refer to TUR: O7 (Main) for general issues

O7 Çobançeşme (branch): Is signed as motorway and indicated on km posts, see TUR: O7 Çobançe?me (branch) for open issues.

O7 Aksemsettin (branch): The route connects O7 and O4 without any interchange on the route. There are O7 km post on May 2022 GSV + another one. Direction signs on O7 main route indicate O4 though according to May 2022 GSV. OSM nor GM indicate any number. I tend to keep it as-is since it connects two O-routes.

O7 Demirciler (branch): It is indicated on OSM + GM, has interchanges and is perfectly signed according to my observation. I'm quite sure that it is also signed on leaving O7 main route although 2019 GSV only indicates "O_ " for the main line and the connector.

O7 Kocaeli (branch): Is indicated on OSM but not on GM. It's indicated on direction signs on leaving O7 main route according to January 2021 GSV. Also O7 on the route towards O4 according to July 2022 GSV. The latter also tells us that "Ali" wp should be "25.1". I didn't spot km posts. Keep as-is.

Another connector is signed on O7 main line (exit 19) according to my observation and 2019 GSV. Also on the route itself southbound on June 2021 GSV. Route should be added.

Still open:

O4 Kartal (branch): No number on OSM, GM, leaving main route. White direction signs w/o number (only "To D100") according to April 2022 GSV. No km posts. The route has interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O4 Pendik (branch): No number on OSM, GM, leaving main route. White direction signs w/o number according to May 2022 GSV. No km posts. The route has interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O5 Görükle (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O5 main route. Green signs with O33 on June 2020 GSV. Even no number towards O5 main line on June 2020 GSV. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate? (see GM for name suggestion).

O6 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files and check the issues (wp labels) mentioned in TUR: O6 opening

O6 Istanbul: Please refer to TUR: O6 (Istanbul) --> O7 (Çekmeköy). The eastern segment might be a tursf candidate (no name suggestions but maybe derived from city names like GM names above?). It's long enough, green motorway signs, connects O7 and D020, and has an interchange on the route.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2023, 03:17:50 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2023, 02:51:02 pm »
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6740

O1 Ulubatlı Hasan (branch): O3 on OSM, nothing on GM. No number on leaving O1 main route according to June 2022 GSV. No km posts, less than 1km long, no interchange. Remove.

O1 Libadiye (branch): Remove, see TUR: O1 / O2 Istanbul

O2 Levent (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving main route according to May 2014 GSV. No km posts and no interchange on the route. white signs. End of motorway directly within the O2 interchange. I think we should remove the route.

O2 Sultançiftliği (branch): Remove, see TUR: O1 / O2 Istanbul

O3 Edirne (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O3 main route according to September 2022 GSV. km posts indicate O3 on September 2022 GSV. Green signs and an interchange on the route. Motorway end sign at the end of the route. Keep as-is.

O3 Lüleburgaz (branch): O3 on OSM but no number on GM. Only "To D100" and "To 565" on leaving O3 main route according to June 2018 GSV. km posts indicate O3 on June 2018 GSV. Green signs and an interchange on the route. Motorway end sign at the end of the route. Keep as-is.

O3 Ortaköy (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. Only "To D100" on leaving O3 main route according to July 2022 GSV. No km posts and no interchange on the route. End of motorway signs at the end of the route right after the toll station. I'd call it a simple motorway exit ramp with toll station like there are a lot. I think we should remove the route.

Add new O3 branch as mentioned at O7 main route above.

Still open:

D100: Route needs to be split. See TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul.

O1 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. Truncate on both ends so that it runs from exit 3 to exit 14 only, see TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul. Since there are no km posts and only white instead of green signs, and no motorway beginning / end signs, I think we have two option: Keep as-is in turo system or move to tursf system with name "O1". Thoughts?

O2 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. There are green direction signs south of O4 northbound (white southbound) on April 2022 GSV. I failed to find the end/begining of motorway signs at east end. First km posts only appear north of O4 according to April 2022 GSV but the sign indicates segment "2". Is the segment south of O4 segment "1"? I'd keep the route as-is. See here for general issues.

O2 Esenler (branch): Is unsigned and has white directions signs. No km posts. The route has two interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O2 Okmeydanı (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving main route according to May 2022 GSV. No km posts and white direction signs on the route. Begin of motorway sign directly in front of the O2 interchange. The route has 3 interchange - all missing in HB! (the existing one needs to be removed). Remove route from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O3 (Main): O3 signed as motorway and with green signs from O2 to the west according to my observation. GSV is fucked up here but I can show the next unsigned exit with white signs (outbound) on June 2022 GSV. O3 is signed inbound just in front of the O2 interchange (September 2019 GSV) and within the interchange but I saw these situations very often. The signs just suddenly disappear after the interchange, km posts disappear and direction signs are white. OSM + GM indicate O3 up to O1. However, I tend to keep O3 up to O1 as-is because O4 also reaches O1 and OSM + GM also indicate it this way. Other than the branches, we only talk about a truncation, not about the existance in HB at all. But I'm open for truncating O3 to the O2 interchange and putting the remainder to tursf.

O3 Haramidere (branch): Why do we call it according to the metro station at the end of the route instead of to Esenyurt, a one-million-inhabitants city district? Nonetheless, there is no number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O3 main route according to July 2022 GSV and my observation. No km posts, white signs and motorway end right after the toll station in front of the next interchange. O3 is also not indicated on direction signs towards O3. The route has 4 interchanges in total. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2023, 03:04:23 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2023, 01:56:17 pm »
O30 and concurrent E881 miss a wp for a GSJ west of exit 4 and another two east of it: https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tur.o030&lat=38.353133&lon=27.151036&zoom=14

Edit 2023-10-21: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6900
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 01:52:49 pm by michih »

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2023, 10:00:42 am »
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6907

Still open:

O4 Kartal (branch): No number on OSM, GM, leaving main route. White direction signs w/o number (only "To D100") according to April 2022 GSV. No km posts. The route has interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O4 Pendik (branch): No number on OSM, GM, leaving main route. White direction signs w/o number according to May 2022 GSV. No km posts. The route has interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O5 Görükle (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O5 main route. Green signs with O33 on June 2020 GSV. Even no number towards O5 main line on June 2020 GSV. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate? (see GM for name suggestion).

O6 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files and check the issues (wp labels) mentioned in TUR: O6 opening

The last issue is still open, see here.

O6 Istanbul: Please refer to TUR: O6 (Istanbul) --> O7 (Çekmeköy). The eastern segment might be a tursf candidate (no name suggestions but maybe derived from city names like GM names above?). It's long enough, green motorway signs, connects O7 and D020, and has an interchange on the route.

Offline michih

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Re: TUR: Collection of branches / connectors and unsigned segments issues
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2023, 01:48:16 pm »
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/6908

Still open:

D100: Route needs to be split. See TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul.

O1 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. Truncate on both ends so that it runs from exit 3 to exit 14 only, see TUR: O1 / D100 Istanbul. Since there are no km posts and only white instead of green signs, and no motorway beginning / end signs, I think we have two option: Keep as-is in turo system or move to tursf system with name "O1". Thoughts?

O2 (Main): Remove "(Main)" in csv files. There are green direction signs south of O4 northbound (white southbound) on April 2022 GSV. I failed to find the end/begining of motorway signs at east end. First km posts only appear north of O4 according to April 2022 GSV but the sign indicates segment "2". Is the segment south of O4 segment "1"? I'd keep the route as-is. See here for general issues.

O2 Esenler (branch): Is unsigned and has white directions signs. No km posts. The route has two interchanges. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O2 Okmeydanı (branch): No number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving main route according to May 2022 GSV. No km posts and white direction signs on the route. Begin of motorway sign directly in front of the O2 interchange. The route has 3 interchange - all missing in HB! (the existing one needs to be removed). Remove route from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

O3 (Main): O3 signed as motorway and with green signs from O2 to the west according to my observation. GSV is fucked up here but I can show the next unsigned exit with white signs (outbound) on June 2022 GSV. O3 is signed inbound just in front of the O2 interchange (September 2019 GSV) and within the interchange but I saw these situations very often. The signs just suddenly disappear after the interchange, km posts disappear and direction signs are white. OSM + GM indicate O3 up to O1. However, I tend to keep O3 up to O1 as-is because O4 also reaches O1 and OSM + GM also indicate it this way. Other than the branches, we only talk about a truncation, not about the existance in HB at all. But I'm open for truncating O3 to the O2 interchange and putting the remainder to tursf.

O3 Haramidere (branch): Why do we call it according to the metro station at the end of the route instead of to Esenyurt, a one-million-inhabitants city district? Nonetheless, there is no number on OSM nor GM. No number on leaving O3 main route according to July 2022 GSV and my observation. No km posts, white signs and motorway end right after the toll station in front of the next interchange. O3 is also not indicated on direction signs towards O3. The route has 4 interchanges in total. Remove from turo system, tursf candidate (see GM for name suggestion).

I've moved the truncated O1 to tursf.
I did not truncate O2 but renamed all wps since all but two do not have exit numbers.
I neither truncated O3.

Edit: The remaining issues have individual threads. tursf will get an own thread soon. Marking topic solved now :)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2023, 02:01:01 pm by michih »