Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => Updates to Highway Data => Solved Highway data updates => Topic started by: vdeane on October 26, 2020, 09:52:41 pm
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As part of the Legoland project, the existing exit 125 has closed permanently (https://hudsonvalleypost.com/route-17-exit-to-permanently-close-this-monday/). As a result, changes will need to be made to NY17Bin, I-86FutMon, NY17M, and US6. Specifically:
- Existing exit 125 needs to be marked closed.
- New exit 125 will need to be added when it opens.
- NY 17M will need to be realigned onto its new alignment. This would appear to be splitting off at exit 124.
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Existing exit 125 needs to be marked closed.
125 is not in use now, so it makes sense to change to *Old125 pre-emptively, just to make sure no one uses *125 by the time the new 125 opens.
New exit 125 will need to be added when it opens.
looks like hereish (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3826704,-74.3065044,3a,75y,324.72h,91.63t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTBsO_Ngmsj3Zw5uqSwaHlA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DTBsO_Ngmsj3Zw5uqSwaHlA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D173.89294%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192)
NY 17M will need to be realigned onto its new alignment. This would appear to be splitting off at exit 124.
Interesting. Westbound, it's already signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3912945,-74.3203659,3a,15y,325.08h,91.36t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1scDxQjPzyOa2YkonT6XYG1g!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40) as NY17M. For quite a while (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3930988,-74.3234855,3a,75y,294.43h,89.85t/data=!3m10!1e1!3m8!1sA5pQ48YqYfE5j40nTanWoA!2e0!5s20081001T000000!7i3328!8i1664!9m2!1b1!2i40), it'd appear; maybe even as far back as the construction of the connector road thru Good Time Park in the 90s? The way routes are inventoried, it makes sense that this wouldn't show up in the TDRs or TDV. Odd that they didn't make the corresponding change EB, but maybe they just didn't want to bother changing the route on paper...
Meanwhile at the W end of NY17M, The 2014 TDR, TDV, and MilepointRoute2015 shapefiles agree on an endpoint where the former EB offramp touched down. However, the 2020 SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt files have the end at Sands Rd, signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5002424,-74.410012,3a,46.4y,20.86h,87.25t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sTiarg8gQIggFzYyk97mDFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40) as far back as May 2009 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5002381,-74.4100093,3a,59.7y,21.12h,88.13t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sxXsTQAzsZ1c8ygIo03QPhA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!9m2!1b1!2i40). I'll do a small truncation here.
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Meanwhile at the W end of NY17M, The 2014 TDR, TDV, and MilepointRoute2015 shapefiles agree on an endpoint where the former EB offramp touched down. However, the 2020 SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt files have the end at Sands Rd, signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5002424,-74.410012,3a,46.4y,20.86h,87.25t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sTiarg8gQIggFzYyk97mDFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40) as far back as May 2009 (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5002381,-74.4100093,3a,59.7y,21.12h,88.13t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sxXsTQAzsZ1c8ygIo03QPhA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664!9m2!1b1!2i40). I'll do a small truncation here.
Interesting. There might be a few of those that have end signed prior to their inventoried end. NY 261 appears to have already been truncated to the LOSP in TM for similar reasons. NY 272 is signed similarly (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3595345,-77.9954425,3a,75y,6.68h,85.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1si4dGrUi3KrmCqmrkF9psEA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), but hasn't been truncated in TM.
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You pointed out on GitHub (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/issues/1061) that NY261 had been truncated in the Touring Route Book, so at least there's that as far as official sources go. SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt still has the end at Manitou Beach. Oddly, the TDV disagrees with other sources, ending the route at this pavement change (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3189395,-77.7251883,3a,25.6y,259.63h,87.86t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1so7p35CITxWUizv6ooXQmPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40).
NY272 is more annoying, with signage disagreeing with all "on-paper" sources. Only the Touring Route Book doesn't have the end explicitly at SACampRd; this cites a less specific "Morton (Troutburg)", which probably accounts for TM's original end at BeaParkRd. That notwithstanding, I'll truncate anyway, as an END sign is a pretty clear indication for Joe Traveler to turn around.
At least NY17M has the SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt files going for it, even if I'm still not 100% sold on its reliability. :/
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4260
ToDo:
New exit 125 will need to be added when it opens.
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At least NY17M has the SimplifiedStreetSegmentQrt files going for it, even if I'm still not 100% sold on its reliability. :/
17M is an annoying case. "END" sign is at Sands Road, but the pavement change has the first CR shield and first EB "adopt a highway" sign. If there was a maintenance handoff (which implies truncation), you'd think Orange County would have thrown the pentagon at Sands instead of the old ramp. Given that 17M historically ended at Exit 118A, WB traffic would have turned onto Sands to access 17, which would explain the END sign being at that location.
In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter where we throw the end. It's a 1/4 mile difference in a state that has over 16,000 miles.
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The change was already made, but I drove through there on Wednesday and the new signage for exit 124 (WB - EB doesn't look like it had its signs replaced yet) does indeed have NY 17M on it,
so we have signage confirmation that exit 124 is indeed the new route.
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i86q/102_1527-s.JPG)
EDIT: Or do we? See below.
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So the plot thickens. I saw on the traffic camera visible on 511ny.org that at least one new sign for the new exit 125 is up. Oddly, it appears to have some kind of state highway sign on it... I sure hope they don't plan to have NY 17M get off here and backtrack to where the old 125 was! This is especially odd given the new signage at exit 124 (http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i86q&state=NY&file=102_1527.JPG). Unfortunately, they have since moved the camera somewhere else, so this screenshot might be all we're going to get.
EDIT: It's entirely possible that someone decided to do a "replace in kind" job on the signage, even though it's a new interchange. Alas, I can't get another look, as the camera is currently pointed down at the road and the signage isn't visible.
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It looks like one direction of new exit 125 is open now, with another to open soon. No word yet on our little NY 17M mystery. I sent an inquiry in regarding it a week or two ago, but never heard back. I don't suppose anyone has been down there as of late to settle this?
https://www.recordonline.com/story/news/local/2020/12/07/legoland-route-17-goshen-exit-125/3855388001/
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4382
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No word yet on our little NY 17M mystery. I sent an inquiry in regarding it a week or two ago, but never heard back. I don't suppose anyone has been down there as of late to settle this?
One road enthusiast was in the area within the past few days. Signs along NY 17 are for HARRIMAN DRIVE | SOUTH STREET. Doesn't look like there's any direct access to 17M without backtracking to South Street from the photos he sent me, so the 17M move looks permanent. Reference markers along Harriman Drive and the bridge are a reference route (can't tell the number).
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Interesting - good to know! I wonder why the sign in the traffic camera screenshot looks like it has a state highway shield... it is blurry, though, so maybe it's an illusion. Yeah, there's no direct access - NY 17M would need to be raised up if they wanted to provide it, and such would probably decrease the interchange performance given how close it is. The backtracking is what I was wondering about.
(https://nysroads.com/images/gallery/NY/i86q/102_1523-s.JPG)
The photos of the roundabout in the article I posted yesterday would appear to not have NY 17M shields. They didn't have all angles, so I wasn't 100% sure, but the reference markers would be an indication. Given that Harriman Drive would be a reference route per that report, I think I'd say that the way we have NY 17M right now is accurate.
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Roadwaywiz has posted the signs to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/roadwaywiz/posts/1746912815477900?__tn__=-R). That sign I previously posted does indeed say NY 17M, but it's the only one that does, in either direction, or on Harriman Drive. Looks like an error. That's definitely a reference route number on Harriman Drive.
EDIT: The reference route appears to be 984Q, for anyone curious.
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HB looking good as-is, then?
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I would say so, yes.
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Righto!
Moved to Solved Highway data updates.
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Are we missing a point where NY 17M turns east from NY 207? I am guessing there is maybe someone who should be credited with a NY 17M/NY 207 concurrency.
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I could see adding a point to NY207, but not NY17M as that point is only on one direction of that route.
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Ok. I guess I got confused on the NY17M situation, but I guess it really still goes all the way to Exit 125 (well EB anyway) and backtracks. :pan:
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Ok. I guess I got confused on the NY17M situation, but I guess it really still goes all the way to Exit 125 (well EB anyway) and backtracks. :pan:
Signage there is confusing to say the least. The reference markers on that road to exit 125 have a reference route number on the portion upgraded, but there's a reassurance shield for NY 17M just past where old exit 125 was - only to have "TO NY 17M" at South Street. There are also uncovered I-86 shields there, so I'm not sure I'd take the signage as gospel.
At least westbound is consistently signed, although it seems like westbound may have always been signed to exit 124. I'm starting to think that NYSDOT might have ignored the impact to NY 17M and that it might just be discontinuous eastbound now.