Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => Updates to Highway Data => Solved Highway data updates => Topic started by: rickmastfan67 on May 26, 2021, 10:52:23 pm
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Do we have the wrong location for it?
Looking at StreetView, there's a I-65 South shield @ US-12/20 (https://goo.gl/maps/StPEHWJQfJ7nKpMQA), plus there's a 262 MM there as well going both directions (SB (https://goo.gl/maps/StPEHWJQfJ7nKpMQA) / NB (https://goo.gl/maps/fHNkqLV8r5hLio756)). They even have the 'enhanced' MM's north of Exit 262 for I-65** (see NB MM 261.8 (https://goo.gl/maps/duBLHd5Z6JzQPLzy7)).
So, should we recenter '262' and extend I-65 up to US-12/20?
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The INDOT Road Inventory (https://indot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=4b145d7856e84295bc58632b55b2dfaa) says the segments between Exits 261/262 and US 12/20 are connectors, not part of the interstate. No need to extend it.
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It's an annoying lack of graph connection there. Not reasonable to move both I-65's 262 and I-90's 17 to a common point somewhere in the middle of all that?
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That I can fix. https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4824 (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4824)
Unfortunately, ending I-65 at the overpass over I-90 introduced a sharp angle error. I added a placeholder to datacheckfps.csv, but since I don't know the angle, I can't complete it, so it will remain until my next opportunity to edit, which will probably be in late June.
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+X16 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.578150&lon=-87.296162
261 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.587266&lon=-87.306290
+X720764 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.593685&lon=-87.306762
262 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.589288&lon=-87.304144(so people can quickly plug it in the editor to see)
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Ooof, I don't know about this change to be honest. I would have put '262' @ where you now have '+X720764' instead to allow people who haven't gotten onto I-90 there (and instead went up to US-12/20) to properly map their progress, and maybe label the point for I-90 as either 262A or I-90.
If we want the graph connection with I-90 instead of US-12/20, maybe this location ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.593108&lon=-87.305088 ) in both files would be more reasonable? The current 'switch-back' you're suggesting adds an extra .4 miles to I-65, which I don't think is justified IMO. Mine only adds .1 of a mile and shouldn't really affect I-90's mileage as well (well, maybe an additional shaping point in the curve below on I-90 could be justified). Plus my suggestion would prevent the sharp angle error in the first place.
The INDOT Road Inventory (https://indot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/View/index.html?appid=4b145d7856e84295bc58632b55b2dfaa) says the segments between Exits 261/262 and US 12/20 are connectors, not part of the interstate. No need to extend it.
Still don't get why they put MM's all the way up to US-12/20 then. Seems one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. :-\
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If we want the graph connection with I-90 instead of US-12/20, maybe this location ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.593108&lon=-87.305088 ) in both files would be more reasonable? The current 'switch-back' you're suggesting adds an extra .4 miles to I-65, which I don't think is justified IMO. Mine only adds .1 of a mile and shouldn't really affect I-90's mileage as well (well, maybe an additional shaping point in the curve below on I-90 could be justified). Plus my suggestion would prevent the sharp angle error in the first place.
Yeah, I like your change a lot better.
Still don't get why they put MM's all the way up to US-12/20 then. Seems one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
Well Rothman did convince me to extend I-476 to US 6/11 that one time. (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2939.0)
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Ooof, I don't know about this change to be honest.
Yeah I don't like it either, though I would propose a different solution.
Based on the INDOT inventory, I-65's mainline ends at exit 262. There's an end sign in the field agreeing with this too! (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5903338,-87.306694,3a,15.6y,0.36h,95.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmug3No5HT8BhZawU1YJCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Thus, it seems to me it is only proper that I-65 should be mapped ending at that location.
This means there will be no graph connection to I-90, or to US 12/20, but... well, this is one of those cases where that can't be helped without mapping things in a nominally incorrect manner.
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Based on the INDOT inventory, I-65's mainline ends at exit 262. There's an end sign in the field agreeing with this too!
That GSV link IMO more justifies it ending at US 12/20 than just cutting it off at that location.
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Ooof, I don't know about this change to be honest.
Yeah I don't like it either, though I would propose a different solution.
Based on the INDOT inventory, I-65's mainline ends at exit 262. There's an end sign in the field agreeing with this too! (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5903338,-87.306694,3a,15.6y,0.36h,95.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmug3No5HT8BhZawU1YJCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Thus, it seems to me it is only proper that I-65 should be mapped ending at that location.
This means there will be no graph connection to I-90, or to US 12/20, but... well, this is one of those cases where that can't be helped without mapping things in a nominally incorrect manner.
That inventory seems to vary the end by which direction one is going. NB ends at the exit to I-90 (and does not take it), but SB begins at the at-grade with the industrial facility. And I agree with Markkos1992 about the street view; in addition to the tenth mile markers, there's no TO banner on this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.59837,-87.3080919,3a,75y,108.45h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D114.04468%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (or the one in the other direction). Plus end signs don't always end up at the exact endpoint. Nobody would say NY 9P ends at this driveway (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9935667,-73.7874398,3a,49y,290.11h,83.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8fEGSpX02Q4y0RarCCKYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead of US 9.
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Ooof, I don't know about this change to be honest.
Yeah I don't like it either, though I would propose a different solution.
Based on the INDOT inventory, I-65's mainline ends at exit 262. There's an end sign in the field agreeing with this too! (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5903338,-87.306694,3a,15.6y,0.36h,95.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmug3No5HT8BhZawU1YJCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Thus, it seems to me it is only proper that I-65 should be mapped ending at that location.
This means there will be no graph connection to I-90, or to US 12/20, but... well, this is one of those cases where that can't be helped without mapping things in a nominally incorrect manner.
That inventory seems to vary the end by which direction one is going. NB ends at the exit to I-90 (and does not take it), but SB begins at the at-grade with the industrial facility. And I agree with Markkos1992 about the street view; in addition to the tenth mile markers, there's no TO banner on this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.59837,-87.3080919,3a,75y,108.45h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D114.04468%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (or the one in the other direction). Plus end signs don't always end up at the exact endpoint. Nobody would say NY 9P ends at this driveway (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9935667,-73.7874398,3a,49y,290.11h,83.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8fEGSpX02Q4y0RarCCKYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead of US 9.
Based on the very clear SB signage, I'm in favor of extending I-65 to US 12/20... and I also remember 25 years ago when there WAS no direct interchange between I-65 and the I-90 Toll Road, and I-65 North very clearly extended to that traffic light at Dunes Hwy.
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Ooof, I don't know about this change to be honest.
Yeah I don't like it either, though I would propose a different solution.
Based on the INDOT inventory, I-65's mainline ends at exit 262. There's an end sign in the field agreeing with this too! (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5903338,-87.306694,3a,15.6y,0.36h,95.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slmug3No5HT8BhZawU1YJCA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Thus, it seems to me it is only proper that I-65 should be mapped ending at that location.
This means there will be no graph connection to I-90, or to US 12/20, but... well, this is one of those cases where that can't be helped without mapping things in a nominally incorrect manner.
That inventory seems to vary the end by which direction one is going. NB ends at the exit to I-90 (and does not take it), but SB begins at the at-grade with the industrial facility. And I agree with Markkos1992 about the street view; in addition to the tenth mile markers, there's no TO banner on this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.59837,-87.3080919,3a,75y,108.45h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dw2tcKFqbvv1i7wytZ4lqzA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D114.04468%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) (or the one in the other direction). Plus end signs don't always end up at the exact endpoint. Nobody would say NY 9P ends at this driveway (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9935667,-73.7874398,3a,49y,290.11h,83.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8fEGSpX02Q4y0RarCCKYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) instead of US 9.
Based on the very clear SB signage, I'm in favor of extending I-65 to US 12/20... and I also remember 25 years ago when there WAS no direct interchange between I-65 and the I-90 Toll Road, and I-65 North very clearly extended to that traffic light at Dunes Hwy.
I'm aware of what the INDOT road inventory says, but 65 is clearly signed up to 12/20, so count me in the camp of people who think it should go there in Travel Mapping. If not, then it's an unnumbered freeway which has a category in TM as well.
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I'm aware of what the INDOT road inventory says, but 65 is clearly signed up to 12/20
seems to me like it is clearly signed as ending at the 262 diverge (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.5905871,-87.3066952,3a,72.2y,358.72h,94.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suNPeEmHjxyhzsxdYbUU2Bg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en). But then there's I-65 milemarkers right after (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.5927298,-87.3066879,3a,37.3y,362.56h,85.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEzguTqG1IouBX7Hzy2l04A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en). The 262 milemarker, right at the US12/20 lights is a plain one (but the 261.8 one is an explicit I-65 one with shields).
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I'm aware of what the INDOT road inventory says, but 65 is clearly signed up to 12/20
seems to me like it is clearly signed as ending at the 262 diverge (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.5905871,-87.3066952,3a,72.2y,358.72h,94.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suNPeEmHjxyhzsxdYbUU2Bg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en). But then there's I-65 milemarkers right after (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@41.5927298,-87.3066879,3a,37.3y,362.56h,85.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEzguTqG1IouBX7Hzy2l04A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en). The 262 milemarker, right at the US12/20 lights is a plain one (but the 261.8 one is an explicit I-65 one with shields).
And, as I mentioned, end signs aren't always exactly at the end point (plus the weird phrasing makes it even more ambiguous - I normally see that "X ENDS" type signage when a route ends ahead, not right there). Plus the inventory is inconsistent, as only the NB direction has it end at the split - SB ends a little ways to the north, at the at-grade for the driveway.
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Okay, finally looked at this again. The ramps to US12/20 will get a "262A" point on I-65, and the 262 point for I-65 (I-65's N end) and the 17 point for I-90 will be moved here (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5945514,-87.3053597,3a,75y,231.34h,97.33t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sf9mn-ppDsaUiSpEuPs1lLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Df9mn-ppDsaUiSpEuPs1lLQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D350.90317%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) where 65 passes under 90 on the way to the 90E/90W ramp split. It's a better location for the 262 point from I-65's perspective, but not as great of a location for the 17 point from I-90's perspective. I-90 goes out of tolerance so a shaping point will be added on the curve south of the interchange.
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https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/4998