Travel Mapping
Highway Data Discussion => Updates to Highway Data => Solved Highway data updates => Topic started by: neroute2 on November 11, 2021, 10:39:29 pm
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US 67 leaves I-30 per the statewide planning map (http://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/statewideplanningmap.html) and is signed:
I-30_BraS (http://www.google.com/maps/@33.1269267,-95.7485231,3a,65.4y,131.69h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1FJfivbJX4qozFkP84PRTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
FM2653_S (http://www.google.com/maps/@33.1198096,-95.7387037,3a,23.1y,57.35h,84.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPUt8pqMxIv8DOqd9415PgQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
FM2653_N (http://www.google.com/maps/@33.1189156,-95.7336659,3a,41.1y,159.19h,84.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAE58eriJ0uSnCwLEWlxbLw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
I-30_BraN (http://www.google.com/maps/@33.1189758,-95.7242671,3a,29y,100.72h,87.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYHPecqXGMgmRIidoHCdoLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
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This seems like a situation in which I recommend contacting TxDOT directly.
Looking at the area, it seems like to travel US 67 SB (if this is correct) that you would have to follow FM 2653 from I-30 to town.
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Haha, I knew about (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/79377ab018e3edc0c39025691221b40896e1cd4d/hwy_data/TX/usatxf6/tx.fm2653.wpt#L5-L6) this but just quietly swept it under the rug. ;)
US 67 leaves I-30
Does and does not (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1275069,-95.7523991,3a,44.5y,121.04h,93.24t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s4Wn7-WwMuL8XXys81_l6TA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i40) leave, one might say. It leaves the frontage road, but there's no signage at the the exit from I-30 itself.
So Joe Driver won't know this route exists until he's already taken the exit for it, or already knows it exists.
per the statewide planning map (http://www.txdot.gov/apps/statewide_mapping/statewideplanningmap.html) and is signed:
Shapefiles confirm this segment too.
Looking at the area, it seems like to travel US 67 SB (if this is correct) that you would have to follow FM 2653 from I-30 to town.
That or take Exit 120 and use the FM3389 crossover (which works out to more mileage). Worth noting that neither one has signage for US67 south.
Cases like this, loops with no clear direct access in one direction at the end, are seen here & there across TX. A few examples:
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.i040bladr
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.lp0293
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.lp0434&lat=35.316434&lon=-101.831493&zoom=17
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.lp0522&lat=29.030619&lon=-96.540819&zoom=17
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.lp0540&lat=29.508566&lon=-95.899379&zoom=17
https://travelmapping.net/hb/showroute.php?r=tx.lp0541&lat=29.461739&lon=-95.975876&zoom=17
Because reasons:
• No clear, direct or signed SB routing that leaves I-30
• Not signed at exit from the NB mainline
• So thru travelers following signage will stay on I-30 anyway
• AASHTO log lists US67 as overlapping I-30 thru this area, not joining/leaving.
Mainline US67 will stay as-is, concurrent with I-30. US67Bra will be added as a separate route.
704664d9abb8618fe4820450f1775e5432ad9cb8
I mean, uhh... https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/5322
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Yeah, I really want to care that the west end of US67Bra is north of the I-30/US 67 line in Mapview, but at the same time, I really do not want to care because I feel dumb that this route is even in the HB. Oh well.
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When this topic (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=4777.msg26597#msg26597) came up I was like "I know I did one somewhere recently I just didn't bother with; where is it, where is it?"
Ah yes. This is the one. Mapview is uncluttered enough there that I'm sure people can tell what's going on.
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Can I ask why we're creating a separate segment for this? Either it leaves the highway or it doesn't, right? Schrodinger's highway?
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Can I ask why we're creating a separate segment for this? Either it leaves the highway or it doesn't, right? Schrodinger's highway?
It seems to do both, with mainline US 67 staying on I-30 as it passes by Brashear (or at the very least not directed to leave the freeway), and a separate unbannered US 67 segment going through Brashear.
Definitely a goofy arrangement. Wouldn't be shocked if Brashear was supposed to get only a business US 67.
BTW, I was the first TM user to clinch the US 67 branch through Brashear, but since then bejacob has joined the party.
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Is there a US67 sign on I-30 between the exit points?
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Is there a US67 sign on I-30 between the exit points?
US 67 is not signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1228137,-95.7340693,3a,15.1y,8h,89.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy8tnqAMrOJgeoSdJgvpeXg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at the Brashear interchange, but it is signed at interchanges to the west (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1296218,-95.8409868,3a,75y,272.79h,86.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_2qBpD0kAKMRIIoZuqpSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and east (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1336915,-95.8077465,3a,15y,188.63h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMWoE0Kqhiuf1rPmw77heCw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). I think this is enough to remove it from I-30 through Brashear.
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Is there a US67 sign on I-30 between the exit points?
US 67 is not signed (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1228137,-95.7340693,3a,15.1y,8h,89.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy8tnqAMrOJgeoSdJgvpeXg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) at the Brashear interchange, but it is signed at interchanges to the west (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1296218,-95.8409868,3a,75y,272.79h,86.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sT_2qBpD0kAKMRIIoZuqpSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) and east (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1336915,-95.8077465,3a,15y,188.63h,92.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMWoE0Kqhiuf1rPmw77heCw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). I think this is enough to remove it from I-30 through Brashear.
I would say no to that because US 67 is not signed along I-30 in Dallas/Fort Worth either. I am fine with leaving as-is based on yakra's post from 11/12/2021.
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BTW, I was the first TM user to clinch the US 67 branch through Brashear, but since then bejacob has joined the party.
I just drove this route Easter weekend. US 67 is clearly signed in Brashear, but as noted, there are no indications along I-30 in either direction that US 67 actually leaves I-30. I would have missed clinching this strange segment if I hadn't looked at the Travel Mapping site while driving in the area. I usually check stuff like this out ahead of planned trips, but this time I changed my routing on the fly and pulled up the site mid-trip.
Given the way things are signed, the current approach looks to be the best option
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I would say this isn't much different from what I had to do with US-52 in WV where it's still posted on the old highway & also posted on a new separate segment of the King Coal Highway.
https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=2273.0
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I just "drove" I-30 eastbound on GSV and didn't see any reassurance markers. So it's not really "confirmed" to still be on I-30, right?
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Because reasons:
• No clear, direct or signed SB routing that leaves I-30
• Not signed at exit from the NB mainline
• So thru travelers following signage will stay on I-30 anyway
• AASHTO log lists US67 as overlapping I-30 thru this area, not joining/leaving.
Mainline US67 will stay as-is, concurrent with I-30. US67Bra will be added as a separate route.
jayhawkco, did you see the above quote from earlier in the thread?
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Because reasons:
• No clear, direct or signed SB routing that leaves I-30
• Not signed at exit from the NB mainline
• So thru travelers following signage will stay on I-30 anyway
• AASHTO log lists US67 as overlapping I-30 thru this area, not joining/leaving.
Mainline US67 will stay as-is, concurrent with I-30. US67Bra will be added as a separate route.
jayhawkco, did you see the above quote from earlier in the thread?
I did see it. I guess I just feel like since we take everything on this site as "how it's posted in the field" as opposed to official designations (with the exception of interstates that got grandfathered in), if there aren't any US67 signs on I-30 and there ARE signs through Brashear, that that means it goes through Brashear, no?
There are plenty of other examples that we have on here that are similar. US6 in Colorado for instance. It's rarely (if ever) signed when leaving I-70 in mountain towns, but there are US6 shields once you get off the highway. If a thru traveler was trying to stay on US6, they wouldn't get off I-70 either.
So basically US6 in CO hits three of the four bullet points above, and since there's a discrepancy between AASHTO and the state planning map, I don't think we can really use "official designation" as a guideline one way or the other.
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I would say no to that because US 67 is not signed along I-30 in Dallas/Fort Worth either.
We're not talking about DFW. We're talking about Brashear. There's a clear difference in signage when you hit I-30 at the Brashear exit vs. almost any other exit in the area.
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I would say no to that because US 67 is not signed along I-30 in Dallas/Fort Worth either.
We're not talking about DFW. We're talking about Brashear. There's a clear difference in signage when you hit I-30 at the Brashear exit vs. almost any other exit in the area.
And there aren't US67 signs on side streets in Dallas.
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Note that the 1961 and 1972 Hopkins County maps clearly show US 67 not with I-30 at Brashear.
TxDOT's on-line map also shows US 67 no banner there (while it does call 67 Business through Sulphur Springs BU67).
There are no minute orders moving US 67 to I-30 there or re-designating it as US 67 Bus, plus there is one discussing speed limits that calls it US 67 with no banner.
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Because reasons:
• No clear, direct or signed SB routing that leaves I-30
• Not signed at exit from the NB mainline
• So thru travelers following signage will stay on I-30 anyway
• AASHTO log lists US67 as overlapping I-30 thru this area, not joining/leaving.
Mainline US67 will stay as-is, concurrent with I-30. US67Bra will be added as a separate route.
jayhawkco, did you see the above quote from earlier in the thread?
I did see it. I guess I just feel like since we take everything on this site as "how it's posted in the field" as opposed to official designations (with the exception of interstates that got grandfathered in), if there aren't any US67 signs on I-30 and there ARE signs through Brashear, that that means it goes through Brashear, no?
There are plenty of other examples that we have on here that are similar. US6 in Colorado for instance. It's rarely (if ever) signed when leaving I-70 in mountain towns, but there are US6 shields once you get off the highway. If a thru traveler was trying to stay on US6, they wouldn't get off I-70 either.
So basically US6 in CO hits three of the four bullet points above, and since there's a discrepancy between AASHTO and the state planning map, I don't think we can really use "official designation" as a guideline one way or the other.
Yeah, but at least with the US 6 segments there's pretty much always a direct way on/off I-70/I-76 for both directions. Here it would be hard to travel this heading "south" on US 67 (west on I-30). In that direction, US 67 just... teleports off the interstate like US 85/87 in Colorado Springs or US 24 in Seibert (if you look at CDOT's official designations). With those, we just adjust to the nearest exit but here that doesn't really work because Texas. I think the split segments approach is a good compromise between accuracy of signage/data and routing expediency for travelers.