Travel Mapping
User Discussions => Other Discussion => Topic started by: Jim on August 06, 2024, 04:01:42 pm
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Along the lines of the 6lane.list effort (https://forum.travelmapping.net/index.php?topic=5507.0), I wonder if there's any interest in creating a similar unranked user list file for all limited-access segments of routes in TM. The data in 6lane.list got me thinking about ways to incorporate that information into some graphs for my Algorithms class in the spring, and that got me thinking that graphs augmented with data about all limited access routes, regardless of the number of lanes, might be more interesting (not sure).
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It would have to be very well defined. Do we want full freeways? Anything with no driveway access? Freeways with occasional side streets (common in developing countries)? How many interchanges in a row?
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I've mocked up a user called 'freeway' with Ireland (Republic and Northern), Scotland and Wales covered. Basic caveat that it's late and there's no doubt I've been too generous in places (especially as I got more tired pushing to finish it). It would have been easier with a definition.
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There's no rush on this, so I'm happy to discuss the rules for inclusion for a bit.
How about this? Include any segments such that both ends are interchanges and there are no ways on or off in between that are intended for the average traveler. So a dirt road driveway is ok, as would be things like emergency accesses or accesses through service areas. I'm not thrilled that this would eliminate things like I-587 in Kingston, which has roundabouts at both ends, but I do want to eliminate situations where there's a single interchange and normal intersections in either direction.
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Happy to hear other proposals for what to include.
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I'm not opposed to those criteria, but it's worth noting that the 2 interchange definition would include a bunch of bridges (if they're part of included routes). For example:
Brooklyn Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/40.7058/-74.0040)
Gramercy Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/30.0466/-90.6737) (unless the north end disqualifies it)
Huey Long Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/29.9449/-90.1748) (New Orleans, though the one at Baton Rouge might count too)
Ross Island Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.5012/-122.6692) (unless the east end disqualifies it)
Aurora Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/47.6480/-122.3489)
Even more so in certain countries; is this (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/14.5980/100.4710) a freeway? It has two interchanges in a row, with only a short bridge between them.
On the other hand, the Dumbarton Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/37.4869/-122.1447) would not count, because the west end is an intersection.
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I don't like "must end at an interchange" because it would mean that things like the western 2.5 miles of NY 531 wouldn't be included, even though NY 531 is definitely a freeway its entire length.
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I'd rather like to have a system so that I can track my travels for limited-access routes.
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I'd rather like to have a system so that I can track my travels for limited-access routes.
Would it be feasible to have some sort of comparison feature between users? Then you could see how much of freeway's travels you've been on.
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I'm not opposed to those criteria, but it's worth noting that the 2 interchange definition would include a bunch of bridges (if they're part of included routes). For example:
Brooklyn Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/40.7058/-74.0040)
Gramercy Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/30.0466/-90.6737) (unless the north end disqualifies it)
Huey Long Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/29.9449/-90.1748) (New Orleans, though the one at Baton Rouge might count too)
Ross Island Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.5012/-122.6692) (unless the east end disqualifies it)
Aurora Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/47.6480/-122.3489)
Even more so in certain countries; is this (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/14.5980/100.4710) a freeway? It has two interchanges in a row, with only a short bridge between them.
On the other hand, the Dumbarton Bridge (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/37.4869/-122.1447) would not count, because the west end is an intersection.
I wouldn't include the Ross Island Bridge, but Robert Moses did want to use it as part of the expressway system he drafted for Portland as requested by the city.
If McGloughlin Blvd and the 224 were full limited access, I could see an edge case in including the Ross Island Bridge.
OR 22 east of I-5 is annoying because of the signals at the interchange with I-5, and OR 34's and 62's expressway portions are debatable for inclusion.
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I don't like "must end at an interchange" because it would mean that things like the western 2.5 miles of NY 531 wouldn't be included, even though NY 531 is definitely a freeway its entire length.
Besides the above-mentioned definition discussion (do we count intersections at the end of freeways? ala 531 at 31), this would potentially mean adding points to denote where said controlled-access begins/ends, not unlike what was discussed for the 6-lane list. Not insurmountable, but does add another level for the collaborators.
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I'd rather like to have a system so that I can track my travels for limited-access routes.
Would it be feasible to have some sort of comparison feature between users? Then you could see how much of freeway's travels you've been on.
CHM had some sort of feature where you could choose two users and see comparisons of their travels. Does anyone remember the details?
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I feel like unresolvable arguments about what exactly does or doesn't count as a "limited access route" are going to derail the viability of this.
Consider also that there are limited access routes not currently in TM because they didn't make the cut for a "select" freeway system.
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This is a thing I miss from old version of Google maps. There was a clear darker orange color for freeways that generally aligned with what you would think a freeway is.
In my mind, if it's not the blue or green freeway color from my trusty Rand McNally Road Atlas, that it doesn't count. ;-)
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Or the red color from the Thomas Guides and the California AAA maps.
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I've been thinking about this more, and I think it's a good idea even if it's not perfectly defined. si404 did it for Ireland and Great Britain minus England (https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?u=freeway&rg=IRL,NIR,SCT,WLS) and it's instructive how many freeways are not designated as motorways. I might make a few different choices (such as including the portions of A55 and A71 between the roundabouts), but it's a good and useful look at what's actually been constructed to freeway standards.
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I've been thinking about this more, and I think it's a good idea even if it's not perfectly defined. si404 did it for Ireland and Great Britain minus England (https://travelmapping.net/user/mapview.php?u=freeway&rg=IRL,NIR,SCT,WLS) and it's instructive how many freeways are not designated as motorways. I might make a few different choices (such as including the portions of A55 and A71 between the roundabouts), but it's a good and useful look at what's actually been constructed to freeway standards.
I wonder why M8 wasn't included...
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I wonder why M8 wasn't included...
Because it's one of the lines I botched.
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Since Si already did a mockup file for Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, should that be the base file we just add other regions to?
If so, Oregon:
I-5 CA/OR OR/WA
I-82 WA/OR I-84
I-84 I-5 OR/ID
I-105 [covered by OR 126]
I-205 I-5 OR/WA
I-405 I-5(299B) I-5(302B) [edge case could include the Kerby Ave ramp, but set that aside for now]
US26 53 I-405(1C)
US30 NicSt I-84(44) [rest covered by I-84]
US97 CR803 272
US97 143 134
US395 [overlaps on I-82 and 84]
OR18 OR22_W OR22_E
OR22 EdgSt OR99EBus
OR22 1 CR82
OR34 LooLn ColSt
OR62 OR62Bus_S OR62Bus_N
OR99 [covered by I-5]
OR99E [covered by I-5]
OR126 I-105/99 OR126Bus
OR132 I-105 OR569
OR213 BeaRd SunBlvd
OR217 US26 8
OR224 I-205 OR212_W
[AirportWay OR213 I-205]
While these are fresh in my mind:
INDKA NH44 TN/KA CarRd
INDTG NH44 OutRingRd_S HighCouRd [point to be added]
INDTG ORR Narsingi* ShiLayFly
INDTG IRR NH44_S NH163
INDTG IRR Rd1 SarPatRd
INDTG IRR MinRd StJohRd
INDTG Rd45/DurCheBr** HitecCityRd Rd1
INDTG OldBomHwy** ORR NH163
INDWB NH12 AJCBFly AH1/WB1-E
INDWB MaaFly NH12 WB1-E
*Placeholder tag label
**File not yet created
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This is a thing I miss from old version of Google maps. There was a clear darker orange color for freeways that generally aligned with what you would think a freeway is.
In my mind, if it's not the blue or green freeway color from my trusty Rand McNally Road Atlas, that it doesn't count. ;-)
There was a little thrill of being a "conquistador" when the map hadn't updated to reflect its limited access status.
Now you just realize...oh, probably a couple of hundred thousand drivers figured it out first.