Travel Mapping

Highway Data Discussion => In-progress Highway Systems & Work => Topic started by: Bickendan on April 12, 2016, 09:15:20 pm

Title: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on April 12, 2016, 09:15:20 pm
While this isn't the start of any official data set for Down Under, I found myself drafting a route file for Australia's Highway 1, the perimeter highway of the mainland. According to Wikipedia, the route starts in Katherine, Northern Territory, and goes around Australia's outer edge and ends at itself in Katherine, with a spur running north to Darwin.
Since the spur and the mainline running south from Katherine are both part of the Stuart Highway, I opted to use Darwin as the origin, and started running clockwise around Australia.
Currently, route 1 is in one giant file. To give an idea how massive it is with only two states, from Darwin, NT, to the Queensland/New South Wales border, the highway is 2628 miles long (out of a projected 9000+), 1010 points, 706 of which are shape points. Queensland apparently has a number of duplicated state highway numbers with no relation to each other.
To break this down further:
Northern Territory (Darwin - Queensland): 776 miles
Points: 256
Shape points: 217
Queensland: 1852 miles
Points: 755
Shape points: 489

The 10 mile distance maximum between clinchable points has been ignored but is more or less irrelevant from Brisbane south and won't be an issue until Melbourne's been cleared, in fact, it could be argued that New South Wales-Victoria-South Australia portion, while far lower on the shape points, will 'bloat' the file!

Ultimately, the file would be split up by state. It could even be split by the alpha-numeric changes through out (N1 in NT, N1 in northwest QLD, A1 along the coast, M1 where it becomes a motorway, and B1 near Melbourne, and so on).
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on April 15, 2016, 06:37:27 am
New South Wales: 829 miles
Points: 437
Shape Points: 223

Total: 3457 miles
Points: 1446
Shape points: 929
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on April 18, 2016, 04:33:41 am
Victoria: 595 miles
Points: 265
Shape Points: 119

Total: 4052 miles
Points: 1711
Shape Points: 1194
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on April 20, 2016, 02:57:03 am
South Australia: 1082 miles
Points: 247
Shape Points: 156

Total: 5134 miles
Points: 1958
Shape Points: 1202
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on December 28, 2018, 04:51:49 pm
A computer crash way back when destroyed my work in southern NSW, Victoria, and South Australia on Hwy 1. I also discovered that a good portion of coordinates on the NT portion are off by 360° longitude, resulting in strange world wrapping on the map.
Initially, I started the draft as a single file, just to see how big it was (got into Westerm Australia before the aforementioned crash), and it was bogging the highway drafter down quite badly, definitely arguing for subdivision splits for Australia.
Lastly, with motorway construction through both QLD and NSW, the trace is out of date as 1 bounces between A1 and M1 less often.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on December 30, 2018, 05:29:59 am
Do you work on developing a system here? Or was your work on Hwy 1 just for fun?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on December 30, 2018, 05:33:27 am
It was just for fun. Since I have the most basic draft done, I should probably finish that off and hand it off to whomever wants to do the systems down under.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on December 30, 2018, 06:21:13 am
What's your source, only wikipedia?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on December 30, 2018, 06:44:21 am
OSM
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on December 30, 2018, 07:18:24 am
I had a quick look on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_transport_in_Australia#Roads_and_highways).
We could start with freeways (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeways_in_Australia) (tier 1 system). I'm not sure but think that toll roads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_Australia#Current_toll_roads) are concurrent with them - each toll road is a freeway?
The potential tier 3 (since there is no international route system as we have in Europe and Asia) or tier 4 system (?) should be the National Highway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_(Australia)#List_of_roads_on_the_National_Land_Transport_Network) network but they are not numberd nor have a proper name :(

Australia is already split into regions (https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/blob/master/regions.csv) since 2015:

Code: [Select]
code;name;country;continent;regionType
ACT;Australian Capital Territory;AUS;OCE;Territory
ANT;Northern Territory;AUS;OCE;Territory
AUS;Australia;AUS;OCE;Country
CCK;Cocos (Keeling) Islands;AUS;OCE;External Territory
CXR;Christmas Island;AUS;OCE;External Territory
HMD;Heard Island and McDonald Islands;AUS;OCE;External Territory
NFK;Norfolk Island;AUS;OCE;External Territory
NSW;New South Wales;AUS;OCE;State
QLD;Queensland;AUS;OCE;State
SAS;South Australia;AUS;OCE;State
TAS;Tasmania;AUS;OCE;State
VIC;Victoria;AUS;OCE;State
WAS;Western Australia;AUS;OCE;State

Do we really wanna keep this region codes or should it be AUS-ACT, AUS-NSW, AUS-NT, AUS-QLD, AUS-SA, AUS-TAS, AUS-VIC, AUS-WA?
What's about CCK, CXR, HMD and NFK?

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:AU
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on December 30, 2018, 09:20:33 am
Do we really wanna keep this region codes or should it be AUS-ACT, AUS-NSW, AUS-NT, AUS-QLD, AUS-SA, AUS-TAS, AUS-VIC, AUS-WA?
Tradition dictates Anglophonic countries get short subdivision codes - the 2-letter postal codes for US/Canada and ENG/WLS/SCT/NIR.
Quote
What's about CCK, CXR, HMD and NFK?
They have ISO-3166:1 codes of their own.

See also (these in use ones - others exist):
ABW
ALA
GLP
GUF
HKG
MAF
MTQ
MYT
NCL
PYF
REU
SPM
WLF
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on December 30, 2018, 09:53:11 am
Tradition dictates Anglophonic countries get short subdivision codes - the 2-letter postal codes for US/Canada and ENG/WLS/SCT/NIR.

I thought that the dictatorship is over... Australia is a "new TM country" and I think we should do it like Mexico, Germany, Spain, India and China. To be honest, ACT or ASA is not intuitive but AUS-ACT and AUS-SA would be.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: vdeane on December 30, 2018, 11:04:00 am
I had a quick look on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_transport_in_Australia#Roads_and_highways).
We could start with freeways (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeways_in_Australia) (tier 1 system). I'm not sure but think that toll roads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_roads_in_Australia#Current_toll_roads) are concurrent with them - each toll road is a freeway?
The potential tier 3 (since there is no international route system as we have in Europe and Asia) or tier 4 system (?) should be the National Highway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highway_(Australia)#List_of_roads_on_the_National_Land_Transport_Network) network but they are not numberd nor have a proper name :(
The US and Canada don't have international routes either and they have systems at tier 2.  Since Australia is its own continent, I could see something similar working.  The bigger issue, as far as I can see, is that it appears the National Route system is partially phased out, signed in some states but not others.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on December 30, 2018, 11:17:42 am
yes, the first non-freeway system could also be tier 2.

wikipedia also states that the Highway 1 itself is a "network of highways" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_1_(Australia)). I think that's what Bickendan has drafted, now I've realized that the thread is called "N/A/B/M1". It's similar to TCH. Maybe this should be the tier 2 system?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 17, 2019, 12:20:05 pm
Corrected a massive raft of bad longitudes for Northern Territory N1 causing globe wrapping traces (eg, -227° instead of 133°).
N1 runs from Darwin, NT, to Cairns, QLD. OSM doesn't show it, and it may no longer exist, but there is/was an A1 Alt through Cairns. For drafting, I've included it.
A1 begins there and runs down to Gympie, QLD, where M1 begins. This was a 975 mile beast.
M1 runs down through Brisbane, with an exit number swap (the last 86 km of Bruce Highway don't exist, apparently) as the M1 jumps onto the Pacific Motorway at km 16. It continues into New South Wales, without exit numbers, to Ballina, and here it starts to get fuzzy: NSW is currently building out M1 from Sydney north toward Ballina, so the jumps between M1 and A1 will eventually get filled in, but the transitions aren't yet concrete -- OSM shows motorway sections signed as A1.

To recap:
AUS-NT - N001 [Darwin-QLD], N001Bul (Bulla) [WA-Katherine]
AUS-QLD - N001, A001AltCai (Cairns), A001, M001
AUS-NSW - M001Bal (Ballina), A001Gra (Grafton), M001Woo (Woolgoolga), A001Cof (Coffs Harbour), M001Uru (Urunga), A001Eun (Eungai Creek - motorway section of A1), M001Kem (Kempsey), A001Bul (Buladelah), M001Haw (Hawkesbury River), A001Cha (Chatswood), M001Syd (Sydney) and M001SHB (Sydney Harbour Bridge), A001Syd (Sydney), M001Wol (Wollongong), A001She (Shellharbour). I will not use a non-named segment of either A1 or M1 for New South Wales.
AUS-VIC - A001, M001 [with a reversing exit number series through Melbourne. All exit numbers will be a Ex or Wx series] and A001AltMel (Melbourne), A001Win (Winchelsea), M001Win (Winchelsea), A001War (Warrnambool)
AUS-SA - A001MtG (Mount Gambier), B001, A001Mur (Murray Bridge), M001, A001Ade (Adelaide - Glen Osmond Road), R001Ade (Adelaide - City Centre Ring), A001
AUS-WA - N001 [without any shapepoints, this segment is 3128 mi/5034 km long!]
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 20, 2019, 12:22:28 pm
Darwin-Adelaide is finished.
I'm down to the last three segments of the route (Adelaide-Katherine), and two are the big ones.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 25, 2019, 08:06:13 pm
https://imgur.com/a/fhuJfGj
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Duke87 on January 25, 2019, 09:01:29 pm
Yowza.

Is this going to get broken up by state? Given the sheer scale involved I feel like it should.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 25, 2019, 11:39:54 pm
By state and by classification.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 26, 2019, 01:23:24 am
Over 600 points for AUSWA N1 and it's dragging the editor to a crawl, and I expect to add at least 200 more shapepoints x.x
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 26, 2019, 03:32:08 am
Finally finished WA N1.
3332 miles long.
827 points, 280 visible, 547 hidden.
Average spacing: 4 miles
Average visible spacing: 12 miles

Time to work on the last segment.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 27, 2019, 04:52:24 am
This beast will need a .csv, but how should I approach this? Do we consider Route 1 as its own separate system, or as parts of the other Australian systems?
If it's its own system, I'm not sure that breaking the .csv into multiple files (by state/territory) is the best approach -- having a single one seems to be the best idea, and doing it in a clockwise manner by state then route classification segment (Northern Territory would end up having two entries in the .csv), with Tasmania at the end.

Code: [Select]
aus1;AUSNT;N1;;;;ausnt.n001;
aus1;AUSQLD;N1;;;ausqld.n001;
aus1;AUSQLD;A1;;;ausqld.a001;
aus1;AUSQLD;A1;Alt;cai;Cairnes;ausqld.a001altcairnes;//filenames not yet shortened
aus1;AUSQLD;M1;;;;ausqld.m001;
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;bal;Ballina;ausnsw.m001bal
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;gra;Grafton;ausnsw.a001gra
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;wol;Woolgoolga;ausnsw.m001woo
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;cof;Coffs Harbour;ausnsw.a001cof
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;uru;Urunga;ausnsw.m001uru
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;eun;Eungai Creek;ausnsw.a001eun
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;kem;Kempsey;ausnsw.m001kem
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;bul;Buladelah;ausnsw.a001bul
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;haw;Hawksbury River;ausnsw.m001haw
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;cha;Chatswood;ausnsw.a001cha
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;syd;Sydney;ausnsw.m001syd
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;syd;Sydney Harbour Bridge;ausnsw.m001shb
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;syd;Sydney;ausnsw.a001syd
aus1;AUSNSW;M1;;wol;Wollongong;ausnsw.m001wol
aus1;AUSNSW;A1;;she;Shell Harbour;ausnsw.a001she
aus1;AUSVIC;A1;;;;ausvic.a001
aus1;AUSVIC;M1;;;;ausvic.m001
aus1;AUSVIC;A1;Alt;mel;Melbourne;ausvic.a001altmel
aus1;AUSVIC;A1;;win;Winchelsea;ausvic.a001win
aus1;AUSVIC;M1;;win;Winchelsea;ausvic.m001win
aus1;AUSVIC;A1;;war;Warnambool;ausvic.a001war
aus1;AUSSA;A1;;mtg;Mount Gambier;aussa.a001mtg
aus1;AUSSA;B1;;;;aussa.b001
aus1;AUSSA;A1;;mur;Murray Bridge;aussa.a001mur
aus1;AUSSA;M1;;;;aussa.m001
aus1;AUSSA;A1;;ade;Adelaide;aussa.a001ade
aus1;AUSSA;R1;;;Adelaide Ring Route East;aussa.r001e
aus1;AUSSA;R1;;;Adelaide Ring Route West;aussa.r001w
aus1;AUSSA;A1;;;;aussa.a001
aus1;AUSWA;N1;;;;auswa.n001
aus1;AUSNT;NT;;bul;Bullah;ausnt001bul
aus1;AUSTAS;N1;;;;austas.n001

If it's part of the Australian sets as a whole, then distinct .csvs by region then system would be the way to go
(AUS-NT N routes, AUS-NT NT territorial routes
AUS-WA N routes, AUS-WA S secondary routes
AUS-SA A routes, AUS-SA B routes, AUS-SA M motorways, AUS-SA R Adelaide Ring Route 1
AUS-VIC A routes, AUS-VIC B routes, AUS-VIC C routes, AUS-VIC M motorways
AUS-NSW A routes, AUS-NSW M motorways, AUS-NSW NSW state routes
AUS-QLD A routes, AUS-QLD N routes, AUS-QLD M freeways, AUS-QLD QLD state routes
I haven't looked at AUS-ACT or at Tasmania yet to have an idea what they have)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on January 27, 2019, 07:22:38 am
Even if you decide to have an own system for it, it must be split at the regional borders because other systems might be added one day.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on January 27, 2019, 11:55:00 am
It's a bit of a mess. National Routes/Highways (N) (and in some states, their state highways too) are being replaced with M/A/B/C. Most states have done it, NT and QLD haven't finished, WA is holding on to the old system.

Given we're talking national systems, surely have something more like:

National Highway/National Route 1 is one route that's part of the national system - it's not its own thing, but has that super-status in the mind that's a cross between US66 and Iceland's Ring Road (also numbered 1).
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Duke87 on January 28, 2019, 01:01:58 am
No point in making a separate system just for one route when there are other similarly-designated routes. Sections of route 1 can be sorted into respective systems for N/A/B/M as appropriate.

Si's overall breakdown seems to make sense to me, although I would not append "c" to the ends of system abbreviations for those systems. For example "austasc" can just be "austas", since there isn't any higher level system specific to Tasmania which would take that abbreviation.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on January 28, 2019, 04:08:36 am
ausm
ausn
ausa
ausb
These should be broken down by region as well, no?
Something like
ausactm
ausacta
ausntn
ausqldm
ausqldn
ausqlda
aussam
aussaa
aussab
aussar
austasa
ausvicm
ausvica
ausvicb
auswan
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on January 28, 2019, 04:43:37 am
These should be broken down by region as well, no?
No. Same as usaus isn't broken up into 49 separate systems

alus, arus, azus, caus, cous, ctus, dcus,
deus, flus, gaus, iaus, idus, ilus, inus,
ksus, kyus, laus, maus, mdus, meus, mius,
mnus, mous, msus, mtus, ncus, ndus, neus,
nhus, njus, nmus, nvus, nyus, ohus, okus,
orus, paus, rius, scus, sdus, tnus, txus,
utus, vaus, vtus, waus, wius, wvus, wyus

but kept as a whole. Ditto usai and 52 systems, eure and 80 systems, etc, etc
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: vdeane on February 02, 2019, 02:56:44 pm
South Australia also seems to retain the National Route shield for some routes, despite switching something to alphanumeric, and Tazmania retained National Route 1.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 06, 2019, 02:25:48 am
Any revisions to these provisional .csvs?

ausm
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames;
ausm;AUS-QLD;;;;ausqld.m001;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;bal;Ballina, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001bal;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;wol;Woolgoolga, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001woo;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;uru;Urunga, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001uru;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;kem;Kempsey, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001kem;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;haw;Hawksbury River, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001haw;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;syd;Sydney, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001syd;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;shb;Sydney Harbour Bridge, Sydney, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001shb;
ausm;AUS-NSW;;wol;Wollongong, New South Wales;ausnsw.m001wol;
ausm;AUS-VIC;;;;ausvic.m001;
ausm;AUS-VIC;;win;Winchelsea, Victoria;ausvic.m001win;
ausm;AUS-SA;;;;aussa.m001;

ausn
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames;
ausn;AUS-NT;;;;ausnt.n001;
ausn;AUS-QLD;;;;ausqld.n001;
ausn;AUS-WA;;;;auswa.n001;
ausn;AUS-NT;;bul;Bullah, Northern Territory;ausnt.n001bul;
ausn;AUS-TAS;;bur;Burnie-Lauriceston, Tasmania;austas.n001bur;
ausn;AUS-TAS;;hob;Lauriceston-Hobart, Tasmania;austas.n001hob;

ausa
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames;
ausa;AUS-QLD;A1;;;;ausqld.a001;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;gra;Grafton, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001gra;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;cof;Coffs Harbour, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001cof;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;eun;Eungai Creek, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001eun;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;bul;Buladulah, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001bul;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;cha;Chatswood, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001cha;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;syd;Sydney, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001syd;
ausa;AUS-NSW;A1;;she;Shell Harbour, New South Wales;ausnsw.a001wol;
ausa;AUS-VIC;A1;;;;ausvic.a001;
ausa;AUS-VIC;A1;;win;Winchelsea, Victoria;ausvic.a001win;
ausa;AUS-VIC;A1;;war;Warnambool, Victoria;ausvic.a001war;
ausa;AUS-SA;A1;;mtg;Mount Gambier, South Australia;aussa.a001mtg;
ausa;AUS-SA;A1;;mur;Murray Bridge, South Australia;aussa.a001mur;
ausa;AUS-SA;A1;;ade;Adelaide, South Australia;aussa.a001ade;
ausa;AUS-SA;A1;;;;aussa.a001;

ausaban
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames
ausa;AUS-QLD;A1;Alt;cai;Cairnes, Queensland;ausqld.a001altcai;
ausa;AUS-VIC;A1;Alt;mel;Melbourne, Victoria;ausvic.a001altmel;

ausb
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames;
ausb;AUS-SA;;;;aussa.b001;

ausr
Code: [Select]
systemName;region;route;banner;abbrev;city;root;altRouteNames;
ausr;AUS-SA;;;Adelaide Ring Road East, Adelaide, South Australia;aussa.r001e;
ausr;AUS-SA;;;Adelaide Ring Road West, Adelaide, South Australia;aussa.r001w;
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on February 06, 2019, 05:44:33 am
order by position on the route, rather than by where in the alphabet the state's code comes? (not that it currently matters as the site sorts it by region for display)
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 06, 2019, 07:14:46 am
Yes. If that proves not ideal when the various systems are fleshed out, I can change it now.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on February 06, 2019, 12:58:34 pm
What's ausaban? What's the system name? Shouldn't it be included to ausa?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Jim on February 06, 2019, 04:32:01 pm
What's ausaban? What's the system name? Shouldn't it be included to ausa?

Looks like bannered ausa routes, so to be consistent with our handling of this in the U.S. I think it would be ausab.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 06, 2019, 08:53:56 pm
What's ausaban? What's the system name? Shouldn't it be included to ausa?

Looks like bannered ausa routes, so to be consistent with our handling of this in the U.S. I think it would be ausab.
Changed my local copy.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: yakra on February 08, 2019, 11:57:50 pm
There's usaus & usausb, but OTOH, how about the state systems, where bannered routes are included in the same system as the mainline routes?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: mapcat on February 09, 2019, 10:50:41 am
How many bannered A routes are there likely to be eventually?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 11, 2019, 05:18:03 pm
Probably not that many.  So far, there's the two (Alt A1 Cairnes, Alt A1 Melbourne), three if you count M1 Sydney Harbour Bridge.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Duke87 on February 11, 2019, 07:20:55 pm
So then not enough to be worth making spare systems for it sounds like.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 11, 2019, 08:29:39 pm
 For the moment, let's keep them separate until we have a better idea of what's out there. If they are rare routes, rolling them into ausa won't be an issue. 
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 21, 2019, 04:33:11 am
I've sent what I've drafted to Jim.
Barring any missing items, I believe that this puts Australia into Devel status.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Jim on February 21, 2019, 07:59:18 am
I have the files, thanks.  I'm looking for a volunteer who can take them, get them into the proper directory structure, and run the datacheck to verify everything gets parsed correctly.  It's a busy few days for me so it would otherwise have to wait a bit.

Email me and I can forward or contact @Bickendan to send you the files.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on February 21, 2019, 01:10:42 pm
I could do it by Sunday at the latest. I'll contract Bickendan but I'll not start today (Thursday) if anyone wanna beat me...
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: ua747sp on February 21, 2019, 04:24:48 pm
  • ausnswm - Sydney Metroads
  • ausqldm - Brisbane Metroads

As far as I know, these are on the way out. Sydney Metroads are no longer active, and Brisbane is close to phasing them out. Wanted to let y’all know before anyone spent time on them or their structure.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 21, 2019, 09:42:47 pm
I could do it by Sunday at the latest. I'll contract Bickendan but I'll not start today (Thursday) if anyone wanna beat me...
I'll send them your way when I get home from work tonight.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on February 22, 2019, 12:20:40 pm
Done: https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/pull/2609

Open issues:
- _con.csv file entries need to be "connected by continuous route" (there were no _con.csv files at all)
- Some regions have routes with abbreviation only but should have exactly one route without abbreviation
- System names, tiers and system colors should be checked

Code: [Select]
ausa;AUS;Australia A Roads;red;3;devel
ausab;AUS;Australia A Roads (Alt);red;3;devel
ausb;AUS;Australia B Roads;green;4;devel
ausm;AUS;Australia Motorways;blue;1;devel
ausn;AUS;Australia National Roads;red;3;devel
ausr;AUS;Australia Ring Roads;red;3;devel
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on February 22, 2019, 04:03:37 pm
South Australia, Western Australia and Northern Territories codes should be AUS-SA, AUS-WA, and AUS-NT. The reason they had three letter codes before the AUS- was added was as WA and NT clash (and SA was given a third letter to not look odd).

The state/territory codes can be used in csvs, rather than spelling out (cf the multi-state USA systems).

The following routes are connected to each other:

ausqld.m001,ausnsw.m001bal

ausnsw.a001she,ausvic.a001

ausvic.a001war,aussa.a001mtg

ausnt.n001,ausqld.n001

auswa.n001,ausnt.n001bul

PS: I can fix these if wanted to.
PPS: the WA part of N1 is missing the SA border point - just something I noticed during my quick look over, eating dinner.
PPPS: I don't know whether it's the looking at Australia, or the tinnie (of the brand that Australians don't drink, but ship over to blighty for the poms), or both, but I've got the Round the Twist theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPxJ6RR40ZU) stuck in my head. If only it was Nathan Lyon's off stump flying out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYw6XFV720).
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: michih on February 22, 2019, 04:15:27 pm
Sorry, I was not 100% sure about region codes and used codes from regions.csv - plus AUS- of course :)
csv files had a lot of issues and I just wanted to get them live. Fixing all issues was too much for my limited knowledge about Australia et cetera.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on February 22, 2019, 05:26:29 pm
Smashed it, though sadly not quite as skilled (or as high-stakes) as Johnny (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-OhYAtK6to) smashed it (though thankfully, I'm not carrying a broken shoulder, I have had enough amber nectar to start thinking songs about sheep rustlers suicides (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwvazMc5EfE) might be worth singing).

Those sandpaper-using convicts even get the starts of a green-and-gold colour scheme (yellow for state routes) to match their national colours.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 23, 2019, 01:03:45 am
I didn't catch that both Tasmania N1s are out of bounds and every point needs to adjusted by 360° x.x
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 24, 2019, 12:14:48 am
Is there a particular need to keep the A1 and M1 segments in alphabetical order or does the database do that automatically? My draft .csvs had them in clockwise order to track each segment geographically. (I'm not worried about the state/territory order; that can stay in alphabetical order)
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on February 24, 2019, 03:08:26 am
That's the website.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on February 24, 2019, 11:39:16 pm
Gotcha.

I'm going to go over the data check errors and fix them tomorrow.  I'm impressed the long segments (SAS A1, QLD A1, N1, and WA and NT N1 didn't have any.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on March 07, 2019, 09:07:55 am
Anyone mind if I start doing some other routes?
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: Bickendan on March 09, 2019, 04:41:10 pm
Go for it. I'd wait on doing any in Tasmania until I fix all the out of bound longitudes.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on March 10, 2019, 02:07:47 pm
Cool

I've done all the motorways, and I've made a start on further A roads.
Title: Re: Australia N/A/B/M1
Post by: si404 on March 13, 2019, 07:56:13 pm
I'd wait on doing any in Tasmania until I fix all the out of bound longitudes.
I've taken the liberty of doing this.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on March 14, 2019, 09:45:34 pm
Renamed the thread to Australia.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on March 17, 2019, 04:53:19 am
Top level systems are now preview.

I've not touched the N/A/M/R/B1 files, save to add the A1 heading south out of Darwin (GMSV has it signed most of the way).

The A road system is a little annoying - there's lots of national routes, many of which cross state lines, but then there's Brisbane, Sydney and Adelaide metro-area routes that clash - Brisbane with QLD's routes, most of which the state changed number of. Is it a national system? Is it state systems? Is it national, state and city systems all using the same alphanumeric system? Yes!  :pan:

As an extreme, there's 6 A3's - two of which are in Queensland on entirely different routes!
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on March 18, 2019, 04:18:02 am
The Darwin-Katherine portion of N1 is really A1 then, despite what OSM says?
If so, the Bullah file can be combined with the main N1 file where they meet in Katherine.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on March 18, 2019, 04:34:35 am
I saw it was signed in several places as A1 and that was the obvious place to split. I left the files you made alone, hence why the E-W road isn't one route.

Looking further, I think the Stuart Hwy portion is almost entirely signed as A1, so I'm going to investigate further.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on March 18, 2019, 08:59:45 am
Wow. NT and SA A3 look especially useless for the designation.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on March 22, 2019, 09:10:19 pm
AUSWA N94 has a bad trace in the Coolgardie area.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on March 25, 2019, 09:38:54 am
Code: [Select]
ABORTING due to 7 errors:
1: Could not find Route matching root austas.n001hob in system ausn.
2: No roots in _con.csv line [ausn;N1;;Hobart-Lauriceston, TAS;austas.n001hob]
3: Could not find Route matching root austas.n001bur in system ausn.
4: No roots in _con.csv line [ausn;N1;;Lauriceston-Burnie, TAS;austas.n001bur]
5: Check FAILED: 49485 routes != 49483 connected route roots.
6: route austas.n001 not matched by any connected route root.
7: route austas.n001lau not matched by any connected route root.

ausn_con.csv
ausn;N1;;Hobart-Lauriceston, TAS;austas.n001hob
->
ausn;N1;;Hobart-Lauriceston, TAS;austas.n001

ausn;N1;;Lauriceston-Burnie, TAS;austas.n001bur
->
ausn;N1;;Lauriceston-Burnie, TAS;austas.n001lau
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on March 25, 2019, 12:03:10 pm
I've fixed that issue locally. It seems the commenting out was done locally at all, hence why the master copy doesn't have it, breaking checks.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on March 25, 2019, 12:17:43 pm
Now pulled the fix in (after checking) - it works and can be pulled into personal branches to perform checks.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on March 27, 2019, 05:10:23 am
Hmm, does it matter that N1 in Tasmania is a T-route, intersecting with itself just south of downtown Lauriceton? Coupled with both routes being of similar length, it's why I didn't set one or the other as the 'main' segment.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on March 27, 2019, 05:38:41 am
We can change it back to that, but precedent elsewhere here is that you have a long route and a short spur rather than two roughly similar lengths.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on September 09, 2019, 09:32:08 pm
Here's a first batch of peer review comments on ausm to start with.

AUS-ACT M23:
- B52/B23 -> B23_S (B52 is not signed in this area)
- relocate LimeKilnRd to halfway between RIROs

AUS-NSW M1Bal:
- NSW2 -> B2? This is a short connector to QLD2. QLD retains the old SR system while NSW has converted to B instead. But it is signed with an SR shield.
- PacHwy -> SexHillDr
- ClotCreRd -> CloCreRd
- WilfSt -> WilSt
- T40_S -> T28/40
- T28/T30 -> B62/30 (T28 is not signed here, B62 is - only use higher level designator)
- BanRd -> T24/28

AUS-NSW M1Woo:

- despite being motorway grade this is all signed as A1. Join with A1Gra and A1Cof.

AUS-NSW M1Haw:
- Combine B83_N and A49 into A49/83 (one point per interchange)
- NSW33 -> T33
- B83_MW -> B83_Mou
- B83_Haw could use recentering
- More shaping points will be needed along segment paralelling B83 to prevent the two from crossing where they don't once ausb is drafted.
- B83_S -> B83_Ber
- Informational note: freeway construction is underway extending south. Not sure if will be numbered M1 or not.

AUS-NSW M1Kem:
- despite being motorway grade this is all signed as A1. Join with A1Eun and A1Bul.

AUS-NSW M1SHB:
- not signed as M1, delete route (or move to an aussf system?)

AUS-NSW M1Syd:
- recheck north end. Interchange with M2 convoluted. Unclear from signage where exactly M1 begins/ends.
- M1SHB_N -> CahExpy_N
- M1SHB_S -> CahExpy_S
- remove BridgSt (no access to/from M1 here, only to/from CahExpy)
- remove ArtGalRd (no access here)
- combine BotRd and MillPondRd (one point per interchange)
- ForeRd -> ForRd
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on September 12, 2019, 10:36:56 am
Here's a first batch of peer review comments on ausm to start with.

AUS-ACT M23:
- relocate LimeKilnRd to halfway between RIROs
You mean LILOs!  ;)

Quote
AUS-NSW M1Bal:
- NSW2 -> B2? This is a short connector to QLD2. QLD retains the old SR system while NSW has converted to B instead. But it is signed with an SR shield.
I'm going to say it's QLD2 extending over the boundary.

Quote
AUS-NSW M1Kem:
- despite being motorway grade this is all signed as A1. Join with A1Eun and A1Bul.
- on the route its signed as M1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.2157939,152.823761,3a,31.4y,165.68h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szPIDBEvScMx-dAEsXodxHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), but otherwise A1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-31.1279607,152.8278983,3a,48.2y,199.28h,85.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDLDOhw_85IXNvHBVOgNvhw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). Holding off for now, pending further investigation (ditto N end of Sydney section).
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on September 14, 2019, 06:29:37 pm
AUS-ACT M23:
- relocate LimeKilnRd to halfway between RIROs
You mean LILOs!  ;)

Er... yes, that would be how that works wouldn't it.

Funny thing about countries that drive on the opposite side of the road from what I'm used to - my brain tends to want to adapt to this by simply mirroring the definitions of left and right, since this is easier than having to re-conceptualize the significance of every instance of either word.

This works great in my head, but it makes communicating concepts of relative direction to others challenging.

Anyway, moving on...

Quote
N end of Sydney section

As I've had time to think about it a little more I think the endpoint is correct as mapped, because it makes M1 continuous with A1, and that's how routes in Australia seem to work - the same number will run for an entire corridor but change classification where warranted.
The location of the M1/M2 junction probably needs to move east to where the carriageways join though.

And here's batch 2 of comments.


AUS-NSW M1Kem:

If kept in ausm the following applies:
- NSW12/14 -> T12/14
- MacValWay_N -> T12_S
- MacValWay_S -> MacVlyWay
- NSW10 -> T10


AUS-NSW M1Uru:

- despite being motorway grade this is all signed as A1. Join with A1Eun and A1Cof

AUS-NSW M1Wol:
- combine NorAve and UniAve (one point per interchnge)
- 5IslRd -> FiveIslRd

AUS-NSW M2:
- check east end (see also comment on M1Syd)
- A2/A40 -> A2/40

AUS-NSW M4:
- combine ConRd and A4/44 (one point per interchange)

AUS-NSW M5:
- M7/M31 -> M7/31

AUS-NSW M7:
- M5/M31 -> M5/31

AUS-NSW M15:
- OK

AUS-NSW M31:
- Some drama going on with exit numbering on this road. It appears exit numbers 1-12 were added to the route in ~2016, as a sort of pilot project perhaps. Then, in April 2018 the exit numbers south of exit 6 were removed. This is generally corroborated by looking at GMSV imagery from different dates, and is also noted in this thread on the Aussie Highways Newsgroup: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/aussie-highways/2y5W7_vnKHU
So in terms of point labeling that gives us:
   - M5/M7 -> 1
   - A28 -> 2
   - CamRd_Cas -> 2A
   - BroRd -> 3
   - CamRd_Ing -> 4
   - RabRd and CamRd_Woo -> 5 (numbered exit and one point per interchange)
   - A9 -> 6
   - 7 -> B88
   - 8 -> AvonDamRd
   - 9 -> T12_Yan
   - 10 -> T12_Col
   - 11 -> B73
   - 12 -> OldHumeHwy_Wel
- OldHumeHwy -> OldHumeHwy_Ber
- add point for interchange at Sally's Corner Rd (south of A48)
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on September 14, 2019, 06:47:37 pm
- NSW12/14 -> T12/14
- A2/A40 -> A2/40
- M7/M31 -> M7/31
- M5/M31 -> M5/31
From The Manual (http://travelmapping.net/devel/manual/wayptlabels.php)
Quote
Drop the prefix of the second highway if it is more than one character long. A5/A6 becomes A5/A6. I-5/I-6 becomes I-5/6. I-25/US50 becomes I-25/50.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on October 05, 2019, 12:42:19 am
Just had a look at ausvic.m001.
Why does it have 1(E) and 1(W) style labels, rather than E1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8281156,144.9872919,3a,19.1y,319.4h,100.58t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1spKsFhmhsvRbtsLiAzbflFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40) and W1 (https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8271858,144.9631211,3a,18.6y,50.97h,99.28t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1sDxngbFuTqgDri3vMBKJmRw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i40)?
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on October 05, 2019, 04:45:37 am
I don't know why they have them, but I can tell you that they still have them because I didn't change them when I took the route 1 routes and cleaned them up a little and added other routes.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on October 05, 2019, 05:46:34 am
I used E1 and W1 when I drafted the route.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on October 05, 2019, 08:42:51 am
You're right. I remember changing them now. Don't remember why! Will change back.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on October 05, 2019, 10:59:29 am
Lol, OK!
I haven't looked at any other routes; dunno if others do anything similar.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on October 05, 2019, 04:43:34 pm
M1 in Queensland is the only other route that has more than one exit series; while I left the Bruce Motorway numbers without a (x) suffix, I put all the Pacific Motorway in (P) suffix.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on October 07, 2019, 07:54:01 pm
M1 in Queensland is the only other route that has more than one exit series; while I left the Bruce Motorway numbers without a (x) suffix, I put all the Pacific Motorway in (P) suffix.

Was actually the subject of the next batch of commentary I had started working on, but had paused because I've been entangled in other things the past few weeks. Might as well share this now:

AUS-QLD M1:
- 84(P), 85(P), and 85A(P) can be combined into two points or maybe even one
- combine 71(P) and 71A(P), one point per interchange
- combine 28(P) and 28A(P), recenter over Grandis St overpass
- the (G) and (B) suffixes can be removed - there is only actually one set of exit numbers between these two, and it's clearly the longer and thus more "main" section compared to the (P) numbers.
- also opening the question on what the remaining suffix should be. Precedent from I-87 in NY suggests (PM) might be more appropriate than (P). Precedent from zafn suggests (S) for South.
- combine 112(G) and 112A(G), one point per interchange
- 122(G) -> *122. The access point here closed a few years ago.
- 138(B) needs recentering
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on October 18, 2019, 08:09:54 pm
AUS-QLD M2:
- add point for interchange at Pine Mountain Rd (east of QLD38)
- WarRd -> WatRd (or KhoRd based on what exit is signed as)
- add point for interchange at Francis St (west of QLD37)
- 34 -> RivRd (exit number is not signed)
- 33 -> M15 (exit number is not signed)
- 1 -> 86

AUS-QLD M3:
- WLD32 -> QLD32
- MusRd -> QLD31

AUS-QLD M3Bal:
- OK

AUS-QLD M4:
- OK

AUS-QLD M5:
-GleRossRd -> GlenRossRd

AUS-QLD M6:
-OK

AUS-QLD M7:
- OK

AUS-QLD M7Bri:
- extend east to exit at The Boulevard, it is signed as M7 to this point.

AUS-QLD M15:
- BriRd -> 33
- Combine AbeSt with BriRd/33 (one point per interchange)
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on October 24, 2019, 07:02:28 pm
AUS-SA M1:
- MtLofSumRd -> SumRd
- MtBarRd -> B34
- SwaRd -> B35

AUS-SA M2:
- OK

AUS-SA M2Ade:
- Move ManSt up to A7 for graph connection
- add new point at south end of freeway, make M2/A2 changeover here

AUS-SA M2Noa:
- OK

AUS-VIC M1:
- no exit numbers are signed west of W19 so points W36 through W20 all need to be renamed
- W35A needs coord sync with A10 for graph connection
- combine W27A and W27B (one point per interchange)
- remove W prefix from W19 through W11, these exits are signed as just 19 through 11. Suggest using parenthetical suffix instead e.g. "11(W)"
- CreSt can be removed, this is not functionally a separate access point from E2
- combine E3B, E3A, and E3 (one point per interchange)
- remove E prifix from E8 through E24, these exits are signed as just 8 through 24.
- no exit numbers are signed east of E24 so points E25 through E31 all need to be renamed

AUS-VIC M1Mbt:
- it's an odd configuration in general but... is this actually a separate road? I would treat this as a one-way pair, since it functionally is. Eastbound traffic uses the Burnley tunnel, Westbound traffic follows the old alignment along the river and then uses the shorter Domain Tunnel.

AUS-VIC M1Win:
- is signed through Winchelesea in spite of the surface alignment. Extend and combine with main A1 segment

AUS-VIC M2:
- OK

AUS-VIC M3:
- no exit numbers are posted in field. All points will need to be relabeled.

AUS-VIC M8:
- add a point at Black Bottom Rd or Modesty Ln to break up the long visibile distance between TraRd and C805_W
- there are no signed exit numbers on this road, so points 1 through 10 need to be relabeled.

AUS-VIC M8Bea:
- OK
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on October 25, 2019, 02:59:57 am
The E3 points were seperated to account for the eastbound Burnley Tunnel lanes joining in to the mainline. And while nominally I'd agree with this being a one way couplet pairing and treating it as such, I decided on the split files because of the interchanges on the Domain Tunnel side, and of the non-M1 eastbound lanes running along side the M1's westbound carriageway.

If there is indeed no exit numbers on the ground for W19 to W36 despite what OSM shows, they should be renamed, however, just to keep the exits absolutely clear, I think that the rest of the numbers should retain their E or W prefixes and not switch to suffixes midstream.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on October 25, 2019, 05:36:23 am
- combine W27A and W27B (one point per interchange)
This is 2 separate interchanges with no way between them on surface roads.

The other stuff I've done, save for the stuff Bickenden talks about on the M1 in Melbourne - namely the split routes, and keeping the Exx and Wxx numbers even though they are just xx numbers - wanting further discussion. I've merged exit E3 to one point.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on October 26, 2019, 08:28:16 pm
Are the C Roads something that [cw]ould theoretically be mapped?
If not I'd be inclined to go for 1 point.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on October 29, 2019, 07:09:33 pm
Are the C Roads something that [cw]ould theoretically be mapped?
If not I'd be inclined to go for 1 point.

I think this makes sense, actually. If we're going to map the C-roads, then 2 points are needed to avoid graph connecting routes that do not physically connect.

If not, then there's no functional need. Sure, the destinations of the ramps have no surface connection, but they leave/depart the freeway in the same location, so from the perspective of how much of M1 has a user clinched... it's the same either way.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 01, 2019, 07:20:27 pm
AUS-VIC M11:
- exit numbers above 19 are not signed, points 20 to 23 will need relabeling
- 23 also needs recentering

AUS-VIC M31:
- C529 -> MelRd (C529 is not signed)
- McKoySt ->McKSt
- No exit numbers are signed, so points 7 to 1 will need relabeling

AUS-VIC M39:
- OK

AUS-VIC M79:
- No exit numbers are signed, so points 1 to 16 will need relabeling
- CarCenRd -> SprRd
- Move M79/A79 changeover to A790

AUS-VIC M80:
- No exit numbers are signed south of 6, so points 1 to 4 will need relabeling
- No exit numbers are signed east of 16, so points 17 to 22 will need relabeling

AUS-VIC M420:
- No exit numbers are signed, so points 1 to 5 will need relabeling
- TorStaRd -> TooStaRd
- C431 -> McDTrk
- WesRd -> C431
- KentRd -> GurSHRd

AUS-VIC M780:
- 5 -> M420
- move M780/A780 changeover point south to HallRd


This concludes the peer review for ausm, so once all issues are addressed the system can be activated.

Also, bonus! Here is the peer review for the entirety of ausr, since this was easy to knock off quickly:

AUS-SA R1
- A6 -> SirDBDr (side note for ausa: A6's eastern end is at A2)
- StLewCohAve -> SirLCAve
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on November 02, 2019, 07:40:32 am
This concludes the peer review for ausm, so once all issues are addressed the system can be activated.
Excellent.
Quote
AUS-SA R1
- A6 -> SirDBDr (side note for ausa: A6's eastern end is at A2)
- StLewCohAve -> SirLCAve
I've dropped the knighthoods to amplify their names: DonBraDr and LewCohAve. They were given roads for the same reason as their knighthoods (the best ever cricketer by a considerable margin, and long-term Mayor of Adelaide respectively).
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: michih on November 02, 2019, 08:58:49 am
Do we really wanna have a system with one (short) route only? http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=aussa.r001
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Markkos1992 on November 02, 2019, 10:11:21 am
Do we really wanna have a system with one (short) route only? http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=aussa.r001

We already have that with DC 295 (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=markkos1992&r=dc.dc295) in usadc.  I am sure no one supports removing that from the HB.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: michih on November 02, 2019, 10:17:47 am
Do we really wanna have a system with one (short) route only? http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?r=aussa.r001

We already have that with DC 295 (http://travelmapping.net/hb/index.php?units=miles&u=markkos1992&r=dc.dc295) in usadc.  I am sure no one supports removing that from the HB.

I don't wanna remove it but wanna avoid that we get many tiny systems. I'm not familar with Australia and don't know whether there are similar routes at all. aussf is not an option since it's not a freeway.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on November 02, 2019, 12:43:49 pm
Arguably the bannered routes could go in the main systems, and arguably this is a bannered route of the A1.

We can always make a decision later, adding the R1 to another system.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 17, 2019, 12:52:14 pm
Moving on down the list to ausa...

AUS-ACT A23:
- OK

AUS-ACT A25:
- OK

AUS-NSW A1Bul:
- KooWa -> KooWay
- CarRd -> HunRd
- RichRd -> RicRd

AUS-NSW A1Cha:
- Short segment "north" of B83 is signed as part of A28.
- B83_S -> B83
- EasRd -> RohSt

AUS-NSW A1Cof:
- T26 -> MacSt
- GraDr -> SolIslWay_Eme

AUS-NSW A1She:
- B65_S -> B65
- PriHwy_Bom -> QuaRd
- NSW9_Kia -> T9_Kia
- could use a couple shaping points between WeirSt and RoseValRd
- NSW7_Ber -> T7_Ber
- +X838 needs to be converted to visible point for B73
- NorRd -> NorSt
- NSW4 -> IslPtRd
- LakeConEntRd -> LakeCorRd
- DolPntRd -> DolPtRd
- NSW7_Bat -> T7_Bat
- NSW7_Mor -> T7_Mor
- HecMcWilDr -> HecMcWDr
- NSW5_N -> T5_N
- NSW5_S -> T5_S
- RivDr_N -> RivDr
- RivDr_S -> DavSt
- NSW9_Ako -> T9_Ako
- NSW9_Pam -> T9_Pam
- NSW/VCT -> NSW/VIC

AUS-NSW A1Syd:
PreAve -> PreAve_E
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Bickendan on November 18, 2019, 04:06:44 am


AUS-NSW A1Cha:
- Short segment "north" of B83 is signed as part of A28.

Making M1 and A1 discontinuous right there?
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on November 18, 2019, 04:29:23 am
Making M1 and A1 discontinuous right there?
Think of it as two short spurs to the A28 that we're treating as mainlines as it's easier.

And it's all going to change when NorthConnex opens next year.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 18, 2019, 06:19:09 pm
It's worth noting that if you follow the motorway to its stub end, you are forced to turn left onto southbound A28. A right turn, which would be necessary to get to southbound A1 from there, is not allowed. So to have M1 and A1 actually be continuous you need to either have them both end at the point where Pacific Highway and pacific Motorway cross (leaving the connections to A28/B83 unmapped), or treat the whole thing as one big junction.

Neither is really an ideal solution. But there's no hard rule that says M1 and A1 have to be perfectly continuous. So, clipping off the last segment of A1 that is currently mapped as concurrent with A28 and allowing the two to be discontinuous is what is most consistent with the signage present.

Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 24, 2019, 05:55:27 pm
AUS-NSW A2:
- OK

AUS-NSW A3:
- could use a couple more shaping points around the north end
- remove A44 point (no direct connection available, only overpass)
- relocate MarRd point to center of interchange
- JunoPar -> JunoPde? ("Pde" is the official abbreviation of "Parade": https://meteor.aihw.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/270020)

AUS-NSW A4:
- M1 -> CahExp
- TheCre -> TheCres? (official abbreviation for "Crescent")
- add a point for WestConnext tunnel ramps (east of FreSt)
- GtNorRd -> GreNorRd

AUS-NSW A6:
- KisPntRd -> KisPtRd

AUS-NSW A8:
- OK

AUS-NSW A9:
- note construction around West Sydney Airport site. This section will need revision once realignment opens.
- M1 -> M31

AUS-NSW A15:
- LonSt -> T7
- OllSt -> T17
- OConRd -> OCoRd? Assuming that O'Blah should be treated the same as McBlah minus the apostraphe.
- DukeSt -> T19/T21
- GooGooRd -> GooGooRd_N

AUS-NSW A15New:
- OK

AUS-NSW A20:
- OK
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on November 25, 2019, 05:48:44 am
- remove A44 point (no direct connection available, only overpass)
- relocate MarRd point to center of interchange
It does seem strangely signed like that. I was treating it as two interchanges that overlapped, it seems to be treated as one weird one and so I'll implement the changes.

It is signed, unambiguously as A3 from the A44. I believe Marlborough Road to be part of the A3 (though signage says different things different years) in the form of ramps, auxiliary carriageways or something. Thus I'm not changing that point.
Quote
- JunoPar -> JunoPde? ("Pde" is the official abbreviation of "Parade": https://meteor.aihw.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/270020)
- TheCre -> TheCres? (official abbreviation for "Crescent")
- GtNorRd -> GreNorRd
Are we using countries' specific abbreviations? The only place I gather we are using non-US abbreviations is Quebec. Everywhere else is either US ones, or the truncate to three letters default for everything.

Also, 'Gt' is the standard abbreviation for Great in Australia (https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-australia-western-australia-on-the-great-northern-highway-north-of-47406883.html), England (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7055654,-0.7043006,3a,75y,297.21h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXSzySKqT5sgtRrokI1wE3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) and the like. If we enlarge Cre to Cres, we should shrink Gre to Gt.

Currently I've kept Par, Cre, and changed to Gre.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 25, 2019, 11:32:07 am
Are we using countries' specific abbreviations? The only place I gather we are using non-US abbreviations is Quebec. Everywhere else is either US ones, or the truncate to three letters default for everything.

Quoth the manual:
Quote
Abbreviate the generic road type (Rd for Road, Blvd for Boulevard, etc.) if it's one of the very common types. Otherwise, use the first three letters: Uli for Ulica.

This is of course open to interpretation as to what constitutes "one of the very common types". I would tend to want to favor standard abbreviations in cases where an English-language standard abbreviation exists.

Note though that there is no specific rule that it be the US abbreviation. Indeed we already deviate from USPS standards by using "Tpk" instead of "Tpke" (though both are in common use in the US).

Regarding the two specific generics at hand here:
- There is no US-standard abbreviation for "Parade". "Pde" is the Australian standard.
- "Cres" is the standard abbreviation for Crescent both in Australia and in the US.

Quote
Also, 'Gt' is the standard abbreviation for Great in Australia (https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-australia-western-australia-on-the-great-northern-highway-north-of-47406883.html), England (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7055654,-0.7043006,3a,75y,297.21h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXSzySKqT5sgtRrokI1wE3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) and the like. If we enlarge Cre to Cres, we should shrink Gre to Gt.

A slightly different issue since "Great" is a word in the road name, not the generic suffix. Nonetheless, there is precedent for using standard abbreviations in the road name ("Cyn", "Crk", "Mt", etc.), so... fair point.

Come to think of it I'm pretty sure I've seen "Gt" used as an abbreviation for "Great" even here in the US, it just rarely comes up since use of that word in formal names is far less common.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on November 25, 2019, 11:38:17 am
Note though that there is no specific rule that it be the US abbreviation.
True, but I'm pretty sure I was told to just do three letters for road types in France, rather than use their abbrevs, and our source for abbrevs was the USPS (though there are exceptions from that).
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: michih on November 25, 2019, 01:42:20 pm
changed to Gre.

Gt is also currently used 11x in ENG, NZL and SCT:

https://github.com/TravelMapping/HighwayData/search?q=gt&unscoped_q=gt (please ignore chm_final)

btw: I respect the US abbreviations like Rd, St, Fry,... but I generally prefer the 3-letter default rule*  We might add a list with exceptions to our manual !?

*Rte for canmbw route names is another story - I have no strong feeling here...
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on November 25, 2019, 03:13:35 pm
I think if we respect USPS standard abbreviations for the United States, it only makes sense to allow similar in other countries.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on November 30, 2019, 04:56:51 pm
AUS-NSW A22:
- should east end be at Abercrombie St? Note that at Harris/Regent the cross street is simply "Broadway": https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8826771,151.2014896,3a,52.5y,146h,103.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssIWBs9DZQkjtgjzFwJiVdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But from Abercrombie A22 is mentioned, going west only: https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8852554,151.1986749,3a,35.8y,345.25h,103.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sho57CWVWBFt6XwociQQT0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
- LivRd -> TheBlvd (could also use a shaping point west of here)

AUS-NSW A25:
-McIntCir -> McICir

AUS-NSW A28:
- OK

AUS-NSW A32:
- LauMall -> LeuMall
- JenCavRd -> T1_E
- LitSt -> T1_W
- GilSt -> T3
- add point at Burrendong Way in Orange for T5_S
- BurWay -> T5_N
- WhiWay -> YouSt (could also use a recenter)
- CanRd -> RosRd
- NSW10 -> BelRd

AUS-NSW A34:
- OK

AUS-NSW A36:
- OK

AUS-NSW A37:
- OK

AUS-NSW A38:
- OK

AUS-NSW A39:
- could use a shaping point near the north end (or a visible point at GunWay) to keep trace on NSW side of state border
- DalSt -> T1_N
- TooRd -> T1_S
- JugRd -> JugLn
- WirRd needs to be recentered
- MntTalRd -> MtTalRd

AUS-NSW A40:
- KisPntRd -> KisPtRd
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on December 01, 2019, 07:17:07 pm
So, regarding the status of Northern Territory routes... Google Maps may still show a mismosh of the old and new systems, and OSM may not really help clarify anything by showing only numbers with no prefixes of any sort. But, I don't think "mishmosh" is really the current reality on the ground. Wherever there is Street View imagery from within the last ~5 years shows, the old system is rarely still in place.

Ergo, some things within NT are going to need to be shuffled around. For many of the less major roads, new signage simply refers to them by name only and does not give them a number at all... though it's possible some of these weren't signed to begin with.

Here's what I've found for the various routes that are labeled Nxx or NTxx within the HB:
- N1 -> part of A1
- N66 -> as of November 2018 is inconsistently signed as either N66 or NT66. Probably leave this alone for now.
- N80 -> C80 at west end, not signed at east end
- N87 -> A87
- N96 -> B96

- NT2 -> not signed
- NT3 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT4 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT5 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT6 -> not signed
- NT8 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT11 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT12 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT14 -> ? (no recent street view)
- NT16 -> not signed
- NT20 -> B20
- NT21 -> A21 at south end, B21 at north end
- NT23 -> not signed at south end or in middle, signed as just "23" with no prefix or shield at north end. Okay.... probably leave this one out.
- NT24 -> not signed
- NT28 -> not signed
- NT30 -> not signed
- NT34 -> B34
- NT36 -> A36


Also, while I'm here....

AUS-NSW A41:
- MntMacRd -> MtMacRd
- PorMntRd -> PorMtRd
- +X417313 could be replaced by a visible point at Bendick Murrell Rd
- in Young and Cootamundra, the route makes a couple turns that are not points, but other nearby intersections are points. Matter of opinion but I'd suggest the places where the route turns should be the first place points go.

AUS-NSW A43:
- NewEndHwy_W -> NewEngHwy_W
- MaiRd -> CesRd
- PitRd -> MelSt
- B63_N, B63_S, and B63 need to be relabeled so all have some suffix. Either A, B, C or location based.

AUS-NSW A44:
- GipSt could use a recentering

AUS-NSW A48:
- TerSr -> T8_E
- JamMtnRd -> T9
- CaaSt -> T15_Rob
- add T8/T15 point at Pearsons Lane
- NowRd -> T15_MosE
- ArgSt -> T15_Mos
- WalSt -> WaiSt

AUS-NSW A49:
- GriClo -> GriRd
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on December 02, 2019, 09:20:53 am
AUS-NSW A22:
- should east end be at Abercrombie St? Note that at Harris/Regent the cross street is simply "Broadway": https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8826771,151.2014896,3a,52.5y,146h,103.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssIWBs9DZQkjtgjzFwJiVdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But from Abercrombie A22 is mentioned, going west only: https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8852554,151.1986749,3a,35.8y,345.25h,103.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sho57CWVWBFt6XwociQQT0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
A22 is signed eastbound on mainline at Wattle/Abercrombie: https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8842611,151.197182,3a,49.4y,92.02h,93.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYUxtA2GuLhv6hhEWcipjQA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: yakra on December 12, 2019, 01:24:44 pm
AUS-VIC A10 has endpoints at M1(27) and M1(35)
For AUS-VIC M1, OSM shows exit numbers west of W19. I haven't checked to see if these are signed.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on December 17, 2019, 06:45:52 pm
For AUS-VIC M1, OSM shows exit numbers west of W19. I haven't checked to see if these are signed.

GMSV says 19 is the highest signed exit number heading west. I checked this when I was QCing ausm. Imagery is from February 2018 so it's possible this has changed within the past 22 months, but we have no confirmation of this.



At any rate, any thoughts on moving/adding routes in the Northern Territory as I described above? I've paused my review of ausa until this is addressed because it needs to be firmed up which routes need reviewing.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on December 18, 2019, 04:41:11 am
I probably won't be able to look into NT until January. There's Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania that could still be reviewed in the meantime without this issue needing to be dealt with (if you have time).

I've fixed the Victoria issue that yakra raised by relabeling the A10 points with directional suffixes.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: si404 on January 10, 2020, 08:07:54 am
Here's what I've found for the various routes that are labeled Nxx or NTxx within the HB:
- N1 -> part of A1
Where?

I've been unable to find any A1 signs on it. Apparently it's meant to become B1 and C1. Leaving as N1 for now.
Quote
- NT21 -> A21 at south end, B21 at north end
There's one A21 sign, with everything else being either NH21 (green+gold shields), NT21 (blue+white shields) or B21 - calling it B21, which is what it seems to have been allocated.

It really doesn't help that NT is doing a rolling replacement of signs (so only when they are replaced), meaning slow implementation of the new system. This is avoided by any route being seen to have an alphanumeric sign gets an alphanumeric number. However it does mean that on the ground info is often unhelpful - which when coupled to being really remote (2 urban areas of any notable size - Darwin being 150k and Alice Springs 25k and the other 75k being spread out over the rest of this Alaska-sized area) means that there's little local knowledge, few trip photos and GSV is justifiably lazy at covering it frequently and when stuff like the future C1 is an unpaved road in the middle of nowhere, comprehensively is a tall ask!
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on January 10, 2020, 08:19:15 pm
Here's what I've found for the various routes that are labeled Nxx or NTxx within the HB:
- N1 -> part of A1
Where?

I've been unable to find any A1 signs on it. Apparently it's meant to become B1 and C1. Leaving as N1 for now.

At the junction with 87, this appears to say A1 pointing east. (https://www.google.com/maps/@-16.3072665,133.3848785,3a,15y,334.64h,88.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snliJsnrMds_frYpH4MO1tA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Of course this could easily be a similar situation as with 21 - likely just the government failing to be consistent with what's A vs. B vs. C. I get the sense that numerical route designations in NT are rather an afterthought. The government's own website (https://roadreport.nt.gov.au/home) makes no mention of route numbers at all and refers to roads strictly by name.

I'm fine with leaving this as N1 until further info is available. That said I will also note that I am unable to locate a primary source for what the road is "meant to become" - I can only find a couple (http://www.ozroads.com.au/NT/routenumbering/alpha/alphas.htm) hobby sites (http://www.expressway.online/gallery/roads/nt/numbered/alphanumeric/index.html) from Australian roadgeeks discussing the alphanumeric system for NT and neither of them has any citations.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on March 23, 2020, 08:41:32 pm
Getting back on this horse. Leaving NT aside for now, tackling QLD instead.

AUS-QLD A1:
- general note: there are some pretty long sections between visible points where crossroads do exist. Consider adding points
- QLD25_E -> QLD25
- CaiRd -> DraRd
- ElAriMisBeaRd -> CasDr
- TulMisBeaRd -> TulMBRd (per waypoint labeling guidelines)
- IngHalBerRd -> IngHBRd
- JaneSt -> PalTer
- A6 -> QLD17
- PortAccRd -> A6
- QueSt -> QueSt_N
- LowDonRd needs recentering
- GreCanValRd -> GreCVRd
- QLD6 -> ShuHarRd (no signage for QLD 6 here)
- MirMtOssaRd -> MirMORd
- MtOssaSeaRd -> MOSeaRd
- ManHamRd -> MarHamRd
- StLawConRd -> StLawRd
- RocYepRd -> T10
- MooCreRd -> MooCreRd_N
- DerSt -> DenSt
- GeoSt -> GeoSt_N
- QLD16_Mir -> LarSt (no signage for QLD 16 here)
- GinGinMtPerRd -> QLD12
- WillSt -> T12_N
- QL86 -> QLD86
- QL57 -> QLD57/T12
- FraRd -> T40_N
- TinCanBayRd -> QLD15/T40

AUS-QLD A2:
- QLD76 -> GDCamRd (QLD 76 is not signed)
- there are signs for an ALT A2 in Winton. Add to ausab?
- QLD79 -> N79? (signed with white shield rather than blue)
- AmbyWalSt -> AmbyWalRd
- A55 needs recentering
- combine GatHeiRd and LawRd (one point per interchange)
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: Duke87 on April 05, 2020, 08:51:53 pm
AUS-QLD A3:
- LisSt -> QLD69
- add point for QLD12 at http://www.openstreetmap.org/-25.09484/151.22891
- MPGayRd needs recentering
- SaaRd -> QLD68
- QLD41 -> T41
- WarSt -> T11

AUS-QLD A3Bri:
- GypRd_N -> GymRd_N

AUS-QLD A4:
- CleAlphRd -> QLD41

AUS-QLD A5:
- QLD7 -> FitDelRd
- appears it may continue south concurrent with A39 to Boundary Rd/Barwion Hwy intersection. Signs at northern junction state this and QTOPO map also shows it (at some zoom levels?): http://qtopo.dnrm.qld.gov.au/mobile/
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: charliezeb on April 19, 2020, 05:42:26 pm
Very minor point, but the spur of Tasmania N1 that's its own page { austas.n001lau } should read Launceston. (It currently reads Lauriceston.) No other adjustment needed, but the name of the town was typed wrong.
Title: Re: Australia
Post by: ua747sp on May 20, 2020, 01:45:14 am
Drove from Uluru to Coober Pedy and back in December last year. Unfortunately most sign pictures I have were from SA, not NT. As with the rest of outback Australia, I recall all paved roads being posted with route numbers, though the locals referred to them by name. IIRC there was a change in numbering when crossing the SA/NT border. In SA, it was numbered "A87" on signs, so that would make it N87 or just 87 in the NT, though I don't remember which one it was or whether it was both. Photos from my April 2010 drive through the NT show all highways being numbered without prefixes. In the Outback it seems numbers come and go, but names are forever.

IIRC NT-4 was labeled exclusively as just 4, and I don't recall seeing any "B4" on any signage. No data to add on what is "supposed to come." Only a confirmation that this was numbered, but I suspect GSV could tell you that too.
Title: AUS-WA: realigned N1 and N95 north of Perth?
Post by: neroute2 on August 07, 2020, 09:19:31 pm
Does anyone know if N1 has been realigned at Muchea? N95 had at least a small change when the WA4 freeway was extended north.
Title: Re: AUS-WA: realigned N1 and N95 north of Perth?
Post by: michih on August 08, 2020, 02:20:32 am
System still in preview. Merging.