Australia

[yakra]

Not been fully following along here -- how's aussf's redundancy (if any) with other systems?

[Duke87]

Not been fully following along here -- how's aussf's redundancy (if any) with other systems?

The only fully redundant routes were in WA and TAS, and they've been removed.

One route in NSW (Cahill Expressway) is partially concurrent with M1 but since it also has an independent section with no signed number this is okay - kind of like how the NJ Turnpike is mapped as the entire mainline, not just the part that isn't I-95.

All other routes are fully independent and duplicate nothing.

[yakra]

Went looking for MALFORMED_* errors and saw:
ausvic.c789   PurRd   MALFORMED_LON   144.949858Z

[Duke87]

Digging into auswa


AUS-WA WA2:
- N1_PB -> N1_Pre

AUS-WA WA3:
- CalSt -> ClaSt

AUS-WA WA4:
- ColLink -> ColRd

AUS-WA WA5:
- TD204 -> TydRd (no signage for TD204 anywhere near here)
- AhySt -> HaySt

AUS-WA WA6: OK

AUS-WA WA7:
- NormRd -> NorRd
- KatAve -> KarAve

AUS-WA WA8: OK

AUS-WA WA10:
- SteRd_E -> SteRd_S, SteRd_W -> SteRd_N
- WinGlenRd -> WarGlenRd
- NorSt_W -> NorSt_S, NorSt_E -> NorSt_N
- TuaDr -> TuaDr_S, TuaDr_E -> TuaDr_N

AUS-WA WA10Aug:
- based on GIS the south end is at Ellis St (https://beta.nationalmap.terria.io/)

AUS-WA WA12:
- TD204 -> TydRd (no signage for TD204 anywhere near here)

AUS-WA WA13:
- SouRvrRd -> SouRivRd

AUS-WA WA14:
- RocAve -> RocRd

AUS-WA WA18:
- SafBayRd_N -> ArcDr

AUS-WA WA19: OK

AUS-WA WA20:
- HunRd -> HynRd

[Duke87]

AUS-WA WA21: OK

AUS-WA WA22: OK

AUS-WA WA26: OK

AUS-WA WA27: OK

AUS-WA WA30:
- MerDr -> MenDr

AUS-WA WA30AltKen: OK

AUS-WA WA31: OK

AUS-WA WA36: OK

AUS-WA WA40: OK

AUS-WA WA41: OK

AUS-WA WA50:
- extend across what is mapped as WA120 to Northam. Signed as WA 50 in both directions from N94.

AUS-WA WA51: OK

AUS-WA WA52: OK

AUS-WA WA53: OK

AUS-WA WA55:
- WatCrs_W -> WhaCrs_W

AUS-WA WA56:
- Per GIS, south end is at WA8 overpass

AUS-WA WA60:
- LedPntRd -> LedPtRd
- add point at Romeo Rd, this will tie into end of WA2 extension once it opens
- TD359 -> PinRd (no TD359 signs on Pinjar Road)
- WA78 -> WA77 (as signed, GIS does not have a numerical designation on Balcatta Road)

[Duke87]

AUS-WA WA61: OK

AUS-WA WA64:
- as signed north end is at WA2
- OdinRd -> OdinRd_N

AUS-WA WA65: OK

AUS-WA WA66: OK

AUS-WA WA71:
- BeaRd_E -> BeaRd_N
- BeaRd_W -> BeaRd_S
- TD204_SwaN -> TD204 (TD204 needs to be truncated to have its south end here)
- TD204_SwaS -> NorSt

AUS-WA WA72: OK

AUS-WA WA75: OK

AUS-WA WA76:
- WA64 -> CedSt

AUS-WA WA77:
- Signage mostly seems to indicate this follows what is mapped as WA78, so suggest rerouting that way. Either way, definitely does not extend north of WA3 (per signs). GIS doesn't include this route so no official source on what it does on paper.

AUS-WA WA78:
- make part of WA77 per above recommendation. If not, delete - there are no WA78 signs.

AUS-WA WA81:
- WA77 -> EriRd

AUS-WA WA82: OK

AUS-WA WA83:
- truncate to WA71. Not signed west of here and GIS agrees.

AUS-WA WA84: OK

AUS-WA WA85:
- TD359_S -> PinRd (TD359 not signed on Pinjar Rd)

AUS-WA WA87: OK

AUS-WA WA102: OK

AUS-WA WA104: OK

AUS-WA WA107:
- TD355_E -> CenRd? (there is no signage for TD355 here as of 2008 GMSV, but then all of TD355 west of here overlaps WA 107... and can't just 86 TD355 since it IS cosigned with WA107 at west end)
- CodRd -> CorRd
- FisRd -> FisSt
- WA107_W -> WA120_N, WA107_E -> WA120_S

[si404]

AUS-WA WA50:
- extend across what is mapped as WA120 to Northam. Signed as WA 50 in both directions from N94.

I remember spending some time when drafting looking at signs and making a decision on what number the Northam  - Toodyay road is back then.

Yes there's this junction with WA50 signs. However that sign is counteracted by the WA120 pointing along this road at both ends: Northam and Toodyay.

Other sources - Wikipedia, OSM, Google and the GIS you link to have it as WA120, not WA50.

[si404]

AUS-WA WA77:
- Signage mostly seems to indicate this follows what is mapped as WA78, so suggest rerouting that way. Either way, definitely does not extend north of WA3 (per signs). GIS doesn't include this route so no official source on what it does on paper.

AUS-WA WA78:
- make part of WA77 per above recommendation. If not, delete - there are no WA78 signs.

Both these routes are on the GIS. You've confused the mapping of the functional classification of roads (which draws lines along them), with the numerical classification (which puts shields along the route).

However, I'll go by signage, rather than what's there on paper.

Edit:

AUS-WA WA83:
- truncate to WA71. Not signed west of here and GIS agrees.

Ditto this - you've misread the GIS - it agrees with what I have (in fact goes further - down the coast to WA82). Going with signage, like 77 and 78. And it goes west of WA71, so leaving as is.

[Duke87]

Both these routes are on the GIS. You've confused the mapping of the functional classification of roads (which draws lines along them), with the numerical classification (which puts shields along the route).

What dataset are you looking at? I'm going by "Route Number Labels - State" under National Datasets -> Transport -> Roads

[si404]

 That's what I used. The GIS has shields showing the routes I had for WA77 and 78.

[Duke87]

That's what I used. The GIS has shields showing the routes I had for WA77 and 78.

Okay so here's what I'm seeing:


To the see the GIS data you need to click on a route, in which case a thin white line tracing it will show up, along with the infobox containing the associated labels (route 3 shown clicked on here). Nothing shows up when routes 77/78 are clicked on, so they're not in the dataset.

Everything else seen here, including the shields, is part of the background layer, not the GIS dataset. Go to map settings and select a different base map option and you'll see they go away with everything else other than the thin white lines. So unless we assume the default background layer is an authoritative source...

[si404]

You are right, I'd assumed that "Route Number Labels - State" would put route number labels on the map rather than invisible lines that only show up if you click them. Even with Opacity at 100 and using the dark-themed map (black background so shows up better), I can't see the thin white lines unless I managed to get them highlighted.

I tried to highlight WA5, eventually getting it, and the line was considerably off the base mapping in the bit where I tried and failed before. I've not managed to get WA8 at all - I highly doubt that's been downgraded, as its a freeway and not a city street they don't want traffic on (like parts of WA77). I did wonder whether it's because the freeway was only built in 2000 and WA5 was tracing an old alignment further away from the river, but the road along the river is very old (for that part of the world).

Should note that the WA Government layers don't include highways, and what we're looking at is a Federal Government layer of the data - so not the authority in charge of those roads. It's really not a reliable source above and beyond regular mapping sources - another body has lines showing where the state highways go. And it's much harder to use than normal mapping.

Here's the Western Australia State Government GIS: https://map-viewer-plus.app.landgate.wa.gov.au/index.html It at least puts Mounts Bay Road in the right place, even if its "Freeway, Highways & Main Roads (S)" layer doesn't do road numbers and has more roads than is useful as 'Main Roads' is a broader category than State Highways (and so isn't helpful beyond saying that WA didn't give the traces of their state highway network to the feds for their GIS).

But it doesn't particularly matter as I'm going with signage anyway.

[Duke87]

AUS-WA WA115: OK

AUS-WA WA116:
- MinMorRd -> MagMorRd
- YarNERd -> YanNERd
- TD360_S -> PadSt (no signs for TD360)

AUS-WA WA120:
- TD356_NarN -> KipSt (signs do not indicate TD356 and WA120 taking different routes through Narrogin)
- TD356_NarS -> FedSt

AUS-WA WA123:
- YunTenRd -> YunaTenRd
- long gap between WagWag and N95, suggest adding a point at Murrum Road to help break this up. Potentially also replace the last shaping point with a visible point at Mount Magnet-Yoweragabbie Road

AUS-WA WA136:
- couple long gaps near west end, suggest adding a couple more visible points out there
- WyboKooRd -> WylKooRd (it's Wyloo, not Wybo)
- BenRd -> BinRd
- RoeWitRd -> WA142? (no signed number in 2008 GMSV here, but this is the far end of the same road: https://goo.gl/maps/94Jjc49EgeaM5iS58)

AUS-WA WA138:
- need to relocate onto new alignment near Roy Hill (around VilAccRd)

AUS-WA WA139: OK

AUS-WA WA142:
- as noted above, this route needs to be added. OSM marks it as 129, in disagreement with this sign (2018): https://goo.gl/maps/94Jjc49EgeaM5iS58
No other GMSV available and GIS has nothing here. The OzRoads website that hasn't been updated since December 2012 thinks it runs all the way to WA 136 in Tom Price, which seems reasonable. https://www.ozroads.com.au/WA/routenumbering/state/stateroutes.htm


And that is it for auswa

[Duke87]

So I went to start looking at ausvicmr and... it looks like they're in the process of starting to dismantle the system and convert the roads to alphanumerics.

- MR3 is now A50, 1:1 conversion
- MR27 now only exists south of M80. New A51 takes over MR27 north of M80 and also part of C727 up to MR57
- MR77 is now A77, with the new A77 designation also taking over MR40 from 77 on south. MR40 north of 77 may no longer have a number
- MR60 is now A60, and the new A60 designation also eats the entirety of N1Alt

Looks like we've got some other designation shuffling occurring on the west side of Melbourne too:
- new A81 designation on Leakes Rd from Derrimut Rd (A95) to Fitzgerald Rd (A77)
- new A91 designation on Palmers Rd from M1 to M8. The southernmost bit was B91.
- new A93 designation on Forsyth Rd from M1 up to Leakes Rd (A81). The southernmost block was C701.
   > the rest of C701 is now B840
- what was C702 is now A95, 1:1
- what was C109 is now A96, 1:1

So, for now, all these additions need to be made to ausa with the routes they replace from preview systems removed.

Aaaand I'm also gonna forget about ausvicmr for now and go look at something more stable.

[si404]

Looks like we've got some other designation shuffling occurring on the west side of Melbourne too:
- new A81 designation on Leakes Rd from Derrimut Rd (A95) to Fitzgerald Rd (A77)
- new A91 designation on Palmers Rd from M1 to M8. The southernmost bit was B91.

These was on OSM when I created the systems. I dove into a deep rabbit hole of whether it was real as the numbering was odd, and the roads rather minor to be A-class, and the consensus of Melbournites discussing this strange numbers was "that's made up", but it turns out that the OSM editor was right, but jumped the gun (or saw the new signs that others didn't as they were under strict 'confined to quarters' orders).

I'll try and see if I can find a full plan of the alphanumerics. I'll implement the implemented changes.

And, yes, it's no doubt a good idea to not bother with reviewing vicmr until it stabilises. Or at least until we know what the situation will be.