Author Topic: usanyp: New York Parkways  (Read 17587 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Duke87

  • TM Collaborator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 07:59:04 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2019, 02:30:06 pm »
A bit esoteric, but...
I want to be absolutely sure the reference number is gone, and we don't have another bikes-only situation like MI185

M-185 is signed though. West River Parkway is not.

Offline yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 09:32:01 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2019, 03:15:07 pm »
On the flipside, parkways by their nature play by different rules; they don't all have route shields in the traditional sense.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 04:57:48 pm by yakra »

Offline neroute2

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 638
  • Last Login:October 21, 2020, 10:36:35 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2019, 03:19:23 pm »
On the flipside, parkways by their nature play by different rules; they don't have route shields in the traditional sense.
Eh? The majority of parkways do have shields.

Offline yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 09:32:01 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2019, 04:58:06 pm »
Edited post.
I'll rethink my criteria for inclusion, and consider just including routes with traditional shields.
Not promising any particular conclusion, though.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 05:03:34 pm by yakra »

Offline cl94

  • TM Collaborator
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 88
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:17:50 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2019, 10:09:52 pm »
Eh? The majority of parkways do have shields.

As one of the more knowledgeable people in the community regarding NY roads, I should probably weigh in here. There are two distinctive features of a New York parkway: park-like features and a ban on trucks/buses/commercial vehicles (excluding Nassau/Suffolk south of NY 27). The NYSDOT "parkway list" is simply a listing of reference routes ending in 7, 8, or 9, which are assigned to "parkways". The majority of these are major routes worthy of inclusion. The problem is that a few of these are normal surface streets that just happen to have a reference route number because of how their construction was funded.

Any parkway worth including in the system has a shield. As far as what isn't signed with a shield, we have:

Bay Parkway (LI)
Cross Bay Parkway (Queens)
Ocean Parkway (Brooklyn)
Shore Front Parkway (Queens)
South Parkway (Grand Island)
West River Parkway (Grand Island)

Each of these is signed as a normal surface street. Cross Bay and Ocean Parkways are bus routes. Under the criteria for inclusion in state route systems, these would NOT meet the established TM criteria, as there is not a standalone/BGS shield with the name - they are signed as every other street would be signed. These aren't like "named freeways", because none of these are limited access and the significant majority of parkways are signed with shields. IMO, if we start including these parkways, we need to include routes like NJ 59 that are only signed with blades and routes like NJ 167 that are only signed with enhanced mile markers, because that's the level by which the six parkways listed above are signed.

Offline vdeane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Female
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:10:58 pm
    • New York State Roads
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2019, 11:17:39 pm »
I don't think the Pelham Parkway is signed with a shield either.  At the very least, it's not on this list.  Nor is Prospect Mountain.

The spurs are another interesting issue - while the Niagara Scenic Parkway spur is pretty much a part of the parkway, the Lake Ontario State Parkway spur is functionally a connector road between the parkway, NY 18, and the park, no different from other connector reference routes like I-88 exit 24 or I-87 exit 33.  Neither one of those is signed with the shield and a spur banner either - the Niagara Scenic Parkway spur is signed as either "TO Niagara Scenic Parkway" or "Fort Niagara State Park" depending on direction, and the Lake Ontario State Parkway spur is signed as "TO Lake Ontario State Parkway", "Lakeside Beach State Park", and "TO NY 18".

Regarding reference route status, one could question why they were assigned parkway series reference route numbers if they weren't intended to be part of a parkway system rather than as a regular surface street.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline vdeane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Female
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:10:58 pm
    • New York State Roads
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2019, 04:56:30 pm »
They've realigned the southern end of the northern section of Niagara Scenic Parkway to feed directly into Whirlpool Street, so FinDr should be moved to the intersection of Findlay Drive and Whirlpool Street.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 09:32:01 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2019, 12:34:25 pm »
Downloading some semi-recent shapefiles, but I suspect they may not be recent enough. Those weren't even shapefiles! :(
Once I can get some good coords from an open source, I'll make the change.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 12:39:12 pm by yakra »

Offline yakra

  • TM Collaborator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2851
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 09:32:01 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2020, 02:00:17 pm »
Checking the Simplified Streets shapefiles, the 957C designation has been removed between Long Rd & Oakfield Rd. Stubs between Oakfield Rd & South Parkway and between Long Rd and I-90 Exit 20A still exist.
If I'm fine with leaving out Drumgoole Rd & Kazimiroff Blvd, I'm fine leaving out these as well, if they're just stubs to a road that doesn't exist as such anymore. ...And isn't signed, as vdeane reports.

I wonder if this is uncharted territory for NYSDOT, or if there's precedent (other than the Niagara Scenic) for a parkway to be similarly downloaded or demolished, begging for changes to its reference route...
It could be they meant to retain these stubs as reference routes, don't consider them "Parkway" anymore, but didn't see a need for a corresponding ref# to change to something not ending in 7/8/9.
It could be that the person editing the shapefiles made some mistakes or omissions.
It could be many things.

But anyway.

WestRivPkwy is on its way out, and will be deleted soon.
Any other last comments?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 02:03:12 pm by yakra »

Offline cl94

  • TM Collaborator
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 88
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:17:50 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2020, 07:56:35 pm »
West River Parkway was my biggest concern with nyp.

One final comment: The LOSP spur. It's really no different from connector reference routes like I-81 Exit 12 and I-87 Exit 22, but was inventoried as a parkway because it connects to a parkway and state park. AFAIK, this and the Robert Moses...er, Niagara Scenic Parkway spur are the only cases of a ref route that exists solely to connect to a parkway.

Offline vdeane

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
  • Gender: Female
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:10:58 pm
    • New York State Roads
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2020, 11:05:36 pm »
I'd argue that the LOSP spur is more like I-88 exit 24 than I-81 exit 12 and I-87 exit 22.  At least the Niagara Scenic Parkway spur is arguably a short freeway (and, functionally, it could be argued that the Parkway splits into two branches with the spur being one of them).  If it were up to me, I think I would remove West River Parkway and the LOSP spur, and keep the Niagara Scenic Parkway spur.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Offline cl94

  • TM Collaborator
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 88
  • Last Login:Yesterday at 11:17:50 pm
Re: usanyp: New York Parkways
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2020, 01:52:25 pm »
If it were up to me, I think I would remove West River Parkway and the LOSP spur, and keep the Niagara Scenic Parkway spur.

I second this.